Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Do you NEED to deadlift?
ninerbuff
Posts: 48,980 Member
in Debate Club
Training so many people of different age ranges in my clientele, I was asked one time by one of my older clients on why I don't have him deadlift in our program. He marvels at some of the younger ones deadlifting 315lbs + off the floor. Even girls are lifting 250lbs off the floor.
I mentioned to him that based on his goals and because I want to keep him safe and injury free as possible (he's in his 60's), I don't include deadlifts in the program, but we do a lot of back work with rows, pullups, etc.
Now IF a client really wants to deadlift, I'll include it in a program, but max lifts aren't for anyone over a certain age IMO. The risk/satisfaction just isn't worth it since I've seen many a member doing them over a certain age get injured somehow and recovery is quite long.
Many clients over 50, I'll have do rack deadlifts if they want to have deadlifts in their program. It's rarely a few (I can count on one hand how many I've had in years over 50 years old) that do it from the floor.
But in reality, what does one apply a heavy deadlift to in everyday life? I mean even if say a box was 100lbs, I don't see many lifting it off the floor without assistance.
Thoughts?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I mentioned to him that based on his goals and because I want to keep him safe and injury free as possible (he's in his 60's), I don't include deadlifts in the program, but we do a lot of back work with rows, pullups, etc.
Now IF a client really wants to deadlift, I'll include it in a program, but max lifts aren't for anyone over a certain age IMO. The risk/satisfaction just isn't worth it since I've seen many a member doing them over a certain age get injured somehow and recovery is quite long.
Many clients over 50, I'll have do rack deadlifts if they want to have deadlifts in their program. It's rarely a few (I can count on one hand how many I've had in years over 50 years old) that do it from the floor.
But in reality, what does one apply a heavy deadlift to in everyday life? I mean even if say a box was 100lbs, I don't see many lifting it off the floor without assistance.
Thoughts?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2
Replies
-
If your experience is that most of the older people you train on deadlifts get injured and recovery is long, it seems reasonable for you to avoid training older people on deadlifts. Obviously, this particular client isn't going to start out lifting 300+ or even 200+, but if your experience is that even starting with lower numbers and progressing gradually, the risk is excessive, it seems smart to rely on that experience.
I started deadlifting at about 52 or 53, and after four or five months I was lifting more than any of the other women in the gym (it's a pretty diverse gym in terms of ages and goals, and I'd guess only 10% to 20% of the female members use free weights) -- which I only know because one of the trainers who is also a program director mentioned it when she happened to see me lifting.
So I guess I have a different view of it, but my "n" of older lifters is essentially 1, since I don't spend much time watching and assessing other members. And there can certainly be a difference between early-ish 50s and 60s, and you know this particular client and whether he seems to be more elderly/frail/poor muscle base/poor balance than some other 60-year-olds.3 -
One of my clients is 59 (male) and we routinely deadlift a couple of times a month. He'll get up to 300lbs+ for 6 reps with good form. Mind you this is a guy I've trained for 11 years and he's put on muscle ever since we've started. He also works with AC units (big ones) and has to move things physically at work many times. So for him, he sees a benefit in doing them not only for health, but because his body will demand it at work occasionally.lynn_glenmont wrote: »If your experience is that most of the older people you train on deadlifts get injured and recovery is long, it seems reasonable for you to avoid training older people on deadlifts. Obviously, this particular client isn't going to start out lifting 300+ or even 200+, but if your experience is that even starting with lower numbers and progressing gradually, the risk is excessive, it seems smart to rely on that experience.
I started deadlifting at about 52 or 53, and after four or five months I was lifting more than any of the other women in the gym (it's a pretty diverse gym in terms of ages and goals, and I'd guess only 10% to 20% of the female members use free weights) -- which I only know because one of the trainers who is also a program director mentioned it when she happened to see me lifting.
So I guess I have a different view of it, but my "n" of older lifters is essentially 1, since I don't spend much time watching and assessing other members. And there can certainly be a difference between early-ish 50s and 60s, and you know this particular client and whether he seems to be more elderly/frail/poor muscle base/poor balance than some other 60-year-olds.
And it's no only on deadlifts I avoid certain exercises. I don't encourage flat barbell bench pressing either (unless it's relatively moderate). The numerous shoulder injuries I cross with clients usually resulted from flat barbell bench pressing as the cause. I'd rather have them do inclines and/or do dumbbells instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Hmmm 🤔 I’d say yes you do need to be able to deadlift. But - I guess what I mean is you need to be able to lift things off the floor. I don’t think everyone needs to max out, but I think being able to balance to bend down and pick stuff up (shopping etc) is really important. Ultimately there might be safer exercises for older or injury-prone individuals, but I do think people can be judged on age or appearance unfairly (I mean in a generic sense, not when you have assessed a client).
After major cancer surgery and some ongoing side effects I was told that I shouldn’t lift weights by various health professionals - purely based on their lack of understanding of lifting. They suggested Pilates or yoga instead, and were confused when I pointed out that involved lifting my entire body weight. I don’t think one rule can fit everyone and it just shows the importance of having a good assessment by a qualified PT.
Personally, I will deadlift until I’m dead and I will continue the Oly lifts until I can physically no more do them - simply because i love doing them.9 -
As a 62 YO my opinion is that in addition to someone's goals, yes age can make a difference to exercise selection but also past injury history and associated risk of re-injury. I've had more time to accumulate injuries than most gym goers!
But in my gym, I would say most older lifters aren't nearly ambitious enough and limit themselves to "old people's exercises" with far too light to be useful weights. A lot of PTs seem to reinforce a low expectation mindset (quote from a PT to a fully ambulatory person "20kg is plenty for leg press"). I also see a lot of people my age stuck in a rut of ancient and out-moded training styles.
I think a lot of those routines as "going to the gym" rather than training for a purpose - good for sure but not great.
The biggest difference I find as an older exerciser is that recovery needs more consideration and recovery from injury takes much longer which means avoidance of injury needs more priority. Unusually my overall exercise volume is higher than ever in my 60's but a majority of that is easy on the body cycling and I've built up the volume steadily over many years.
I don't deadlift (or do heavy squats) as my lumbar discs are a mess from repeated herniations over decades and heavy vertical compression leads to nerve impingement. They also aren’t really helpful for my main sport so little benefit and the resulting muscle fatigue is counter-productive for my goals. I've stopped seated rows for the same reason, risk of injury and time off lifting exceeds the benefit.
I can go heavy including bench press (very surprised you think bench press is a high injury risk) and lat pull downs but very rarely go below a 3RM. Again, experience has shown me that working sets at 3RM leads to good progression but 1RM or 2RM gives no additional benefit and massively increases both fatigue and risk. Working up to 3RM or 5RM in a pyramid training style also works well for the older me with a selection of not great joints/ligaments/tendons as a movement specific warm up. Younger me would do a general warmup and get to heavy sets very quickly.
My part time job does involve heavy object lifting but normally big and awkward loads rather than extremely heavy but easy to control weights. The concept of "functional strength" can be rather over-sold but when I started working with my builder son it was interesting that despite a similar strength level, I struggled far more with things like 8ft steel-reinforced concrete posts compared to him.
4 -
You don't need to deadlift at any age, the question is why do you deadlift and what is the goal behind it. If you want to train the movement just lift two dumbbells it's much more natural.1
-
A few years back (mid 50s age) I was glad I'd been deadlifting when I had to go shopping for multiple 20 kg bags of ice melt, raise them from a floor pallet to the cart, then load them into my truck. Just meant I could do it myself instead of waiting for some helpful young employee to show up and do it. Same with the 50 lb bag of concrete I bought last year. That one I carried through the store.
I hear you on bench pressing and shoulder injury. My physiotherapist has nixed bench pressing completely for me (other than a theraband exercise) because my rotator cuff is such a mess from decades of shovelling snow.0 -
I hope I don't NEED to deadlift because I can't atm....I've been dealing with SI joint dysfunction/sacral pain for about 6 weeks and deadlifts really aggravated the pain. Squats and bent over rows also...so I'm trying to figure out lower body strength training without those lifts.2
-
I hope I don't need to deadlift, either, because it's tedious AF to me (along with its related lifting thingies). The somewhat-similar horizontal movement I do at low resistance (bodyweight + boat + friction) 3-4 times a week, at 750-1000 reps per session, is going to have to be enough, most of the year. Maybe a little DL in the offseason, if I have to.(snip)
But in my gym, I would say most older lifters aren't nearly ambitious enough and limit themselves to "old people's exercises" with far too light to be useful weights. A lot of PTs seem to reinforce a low expectation mindset (quote from a PT to a fully ambulatory person "20kg is plenty for leg press"). I also see a lot of people my age stuck in a rut of ancient and out-moded training styles.
I think a lot of those routines as "going to the gym" rather than training for a purpose - good for sure but not great.
The biggest difference I find as an older exerciser is that recovery needs more consideration and recovery from injury takes much longer which means avoidance of injury needs more priority. Unusually my overall exercise volume is higher than ever in my 60's but a majority of that is easy on the body cycling and I've built up the volume steadily over many years.
(snip)
If I could endorse this in giant billboard-sized flaming letters, I would.
I don't encourage any individual to go beyond their safe capabilities, and agree that with increasing age, that can require more gradual progression and careful experimentation, because of the higher cost of injury (in terms of detraining). Those relatively new to exercise can be especially challenged (cognitively) in this realm, because experience IMO helps us distinguish between physical sensations of difficulty, discomfort, challenge, pain, risk, etc.
It's true that as we (generically) age, it's more common statistically to have a history of injuries or cumulative physical stress, and more common statistically to have various disabilities or physical limitations.
However, age per se is not a disability. Treating it as such is prejudice, stereotyping. Individuals are individual.5 -
I have several clients who were told by their doctors not to engage in lifting activity for exercise. I don't get how some of them actually think.claireychn074 wrote: »Hmmm 🤔 I’d say yes you do need to be able to deadlift. But - I guess what I mean is you need to be able to lift things off the floor. I don’t think everyone needs to max out, but I think being able to balance to bend down and pick stuff up (shopping etc) is really important. Ultimately there might be safer exercises for older or injury-prone individuals, but I do think people can be judged on age or appearance unfairly (I mean in a generic sense, not when you have assessed a client).
After major cancer surgery and some ongoing side effects I was told that I shouldn’t lift weights by various health professionals - purely based on their lack of understanding of lifting. They suggested Pilates or yoga instead, and were confused when I pointed out that involved lifting my entire body weight. I don’t think one rule can fit everyone and it just shows the importance of having a good assessment by a qualified PT.
Personally, I will deadlift until I’m dead and I will continue the Oly lifts until I can physically no more do them - simply because i love doing them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
I suspect it was just lack of understanding/ being risk adverse. My argument was that if the cancer returns I want to be as strong as possible to fight it. There is also a strong psychological element for me - I thrive on challenging exercise and it makes me happy. That’s important to stay healthy.
I have several clients who were told by their doctors not to engage in lifting activity for exercise. I don't get how some of them actually think.claireychn074 wrote: »Hmmm 🤔 I’d say yes you do need to be able to deadlift. But - I guess what I mean is you need to be able to lift things off the floor. I don’t think everyone needs to max out, but I think being able to balance to bend down and pick stuff up (shopping etc) is really important. Ultimately there might be safer exercises for older or injury-prone individuals, but I do think people can be judged on age or appearance unfairly (I mean in a generic sense, not when you have assessed a client).
After major cancer surgery and some ongoing side effects I was told that I shouldn’t lift weights by various health professionals - purely based on their lack of understanding of lifting. They suggested Pilates or yoga instead, and were confused when I pointed out that involved lifting my entire body weight. I don’t think one rule can fit everyone and it just shows the importance of having a good assessment by a qualified PT.
Personally, I will deadlift until I’m dead and I will continue the Oly lifts until I can physically no more do them - simply because i love doing them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Flat barbell bench pressing is IMO. For many, just positioning right if they don't have great shoulder flexibility and attempting it can lead to more shoulder issues. And then there's the ego involved of trying to press much more than they can really handle. It's rare for me to hear anyone who bench presses somewhat heavy, to have never had an issue with their shoulders at times.
(very surprised you think bench press is a high injury risk)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Single leg press (less load on the body). Same with single arm rows, but with a support (like an incline bench and facing prone) so you don't have to have your back hold the load in position.DancingMoosie wrote: »I hope I don't NEED to deadlift because I can't atm....I've been dealing with SI joint dysfunction/sacral pain for about 6 weeks and deadlifts really aggravated the pain. Squats and bent over rows also...so I'm trying to figure out lower body strength training without those lifts.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
I also agree here. The majority of PT's look to just get movement out of people. And while that's the initial goal, improvement in strength and balance should be emphasized more. I just had a client train with me, then go to PT (because insurance company insisted or they wouldn't pay out) and when he returned, he said PT was too easy compared to what we were doing. Luckily for him it was only for 3 sessions with them. He's much happier to be back with me.I hope I don't need to deadlift, either, because it's tedious AF to me (along with its related lifting thingies). The somewhat-similar horizontal movement I do at low resistance (bodyweight + boat + friction) 3-4 times a week, at 750-1000 reps per session, is going to have to be enough, most of the year. Maybe a little DL in the offseason, if I have to.(snip)
But in my gym, I would say most older lifters aren't nearly ambitious enough and limit themselves to "old people's exercises" with far too light to be useful weights. A lot of PTs seem to reinforce a low expectation mindset (quote from a PT to a fully ambulatory person "20kg is plenty for leg press"). I also see a lot of people my age stuck in a rut of ancient and out-moded training styles.
I think a lot of those routines as "going to the gym" rather than training for a purpose - good for sure but not great.
The biggest difference I find as an older exerciser is that recovery needs more consideration and recovery from injury takes much longer which means avoidance of injury needs more priority. Unusually my overall exercise volume is higher than ever in my 60's but a majority of that is easy on the body cycling and I've built up the volume steadily over many years.
(snip)
If I could endorse this in giant billboard-sized flaming letters, I would.
I don't encourage any individual to go beyond their safe capabilities, and agree that with increasing age, that can require more gradual progression and careful experimentation, because of the higher cost of injury (in terms of detraining). Those relatively new to exercise can be especially challenged (cognitively) in this realm, because experience IMO helps us distinguish between physical sensations of difficulty, discomfort, challenge, pain, risk, etc.
It's true that as we (generically) age, it's more common statistically to have a history of injuries or cumulative physical stress, and more common statistically to have various disabilities or physical limitations.
However, age per se is not a disability. Treating it as such is prejudice, stereotyping. Individuals are individual.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Flat barbell bench pressing is IMO. For many, just positioning right if they don't have great shoulder flexibility and attempting it can lead to more shoulder issues. And then there's the ego involved of trying to press much more than they can really handle. It's rare for me to hear anyone who bench presses somewhat heavy, to have never had an issue with their shoulders at times.
(very surprised you think bench press is a high injury risk)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Interesting.
I do agree that bench press can often be an ego lift, especially with two guys training/spotting and egging each other on!
Only time I hurt myself heavy bench pressing was at age 18 when I got too competitive with a friend (challenge was who can get to 100kg in shortest span of time from a fairly modest start point....) and at that age muscle strength can increase quicker than tendons can adapt - tore my supraspinatus tendon.
But following 44 years of benching have only been beneficial to me.
Even following two AC joint injuries (not from lifting) my shoulders are fine.
One thing I did find helpful was watching the bench press tutorial from the amazing Jennifer Thompson and modifying my technique accordingly.
Just getting back to my benchmark weight (excuse the pun!) after 7 months of rehab on a wrist injury (again not gym related).0 -
I think the issue with a lot of people who rely on flat barbell bench pressing, is that idea that it builds a great chest. But because the hands don't move inward (since they are stuck in the position of holding the bar) it really isn't. Great for improving strength (if that's the goal) the to build up the pec, hand has to move inward toward the chest. Usually why flyes and dumbbell presses get a better result in overall chest development. The vast majority of bodybuilders don't flat barbell bench press a lot at all.
Flat barbell bench pressing is IMO. For many, just positioning right if they don't have great shoulder flexibility and attempting it can lead to more shoulder issues. And then there's the ego involved of trying to press much more than they can really handle. It's rare for me to hear anyone who bench presses somewhat heavy, to have never had an issue with their shoulders at times.
(very surprised you think bench press is a high injury risk)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Interesting.
I do agree that bench press can often be an ego lift, especially with two guys training/spotting and egging each other on!
Only time I hurt myself heavy bench pressing was at age 18 when I got too competitive with a friend (challenge was who can get to 100kg in shortest span of time from a fairly modest start point....) and at that age muscle strength can increase quicker than tendons can adapt - tore my supraspinatus tendon.
But following 44 years of benching have only been beneficial to me.
Even following two AC joint injuries (not from lifting) my shoulders are fine.
One thing I did find helpful was watching the bench press tutorial from the amazing Jennifer Thompson and modifying my technique accordingly.
Just getting back to my benchmark weight (excuse the pun!) after 7 months of rehab on a wrist injury (again not gym related).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
I have several clients who were told by their doctors not to engage in lifting activity for exercise. I don't get how some of them actually think.claireychn074 wrote: »Hmmm 🤔 I’d say yes you do need to be able to deadlift. But - I guess what I mean is you need to be able to lift things off the floor. I don’t think everyone needs to max out, but I think being able to balance to bend down and pick stuff up (shopping etc) is really important. Ultimately there might be safer exercises for older or injury-prone individuals, but I do think people can be judged on age or appearance unfairly (I mean in a generic sense, not when you have assessed a client).
After major cancer surgery and some ongoing side effects I was told that I shouldn’t lift weights by various health professionals - purely based on their lack of understanding of lifting. They suggested Pilates or yoga instead, and were confused when I pointed out that involved lifting my entire body weight. I don’t think one rule can fit everyone and it just shows the importance of having a good assessment by a qualified PT.
Personally, I will deadlift until I’m dead and I will continue the Oly lifts until I can physically no more do them - simply because i love doing them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I won't speak to other cancer types, but back 25 years or so, the standard accepted medical advice to certain breast cancer survivors (specifically) was that we shouldn't do repetitive resistance upper body exercise.
For those who had axillary lymph nodes removed, there was substantially increase risk of arm lymphedema, which can be quite serious and debilitating - life altering, really.
The lymphedema risk was further increased if the person had radiation therapy to the area, which was common among those who had breast-sparing (lumpectomy) surgery, and also needed by some (like me) who'd had breasts fully removed (mastectomy) but who'd done an extra-good job of getting relatively advanced or multifocal breast cancer. 🙄
The standard medical belief back then was that repetitive resistance upper body exercise increased those risks. Literally, some doctors' offices gave survivors boilerplate handouts telling them never again to lift more than 10-15 pounds with the affected arm(s), for the rest of their lives. Obviously, that's less than a decent-sized sack of groceries, or even two gallons of milk, let alone a toddler.
I was diagnosed and treated just as some solid research was starting to come out about this. I still got that bad, old advice from some of my treatment team.
But I was lucky: I asked my surgeon about this. He said "The lymphedema clinics see patients who've developed lymphedema, and decide what might have triggered it from those people's medical histories. They don't see all the patients I see do the same things - like lift weights - and do fine. Just be somewhat cautious, progress especially slowly to avoid injury to that arm, and you'll be fine, with no specific limits."
Shortly later, I was even part of a research study of post-cancer-treatment rowers, one of a raft of studies that eventually showed no increased lymphedema risk from repetitive-resistance upper body exercise, physical jobs that involved lifting, etc. In fact, studies have actually suggested (faintly) that there might be reduced lymphedema risk from regularly doing such exercise.
Bottom line: Lymphedema risk is higher in these breast cancer treatment groups. Evidence suggests that injury to the affected arm (post-treatment) or post-treatment weight gain may increase risk. Repetitive-resistance exercise doesn't inherently seem to increase risk, absent injury. (Injury avoidance is extra important, but it's generally important for everyone, right?).2 -
The hip hinge (basic deadlift motion) is considered to be one of the basic human movement patterns, some sources:
https://www.otpbooks.com/dan-john-5-basic-human-movements/
https://www.strongfirst.com/seven-basic-human-movements/
https://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/7-exercises/
https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-6-foundational-movement-patterns/
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a38375837/athlean-x-essential-exercises-program-cavaliere/
Now remember, this is saying you need to train the hip hinge pattern. While deadlifts with a barbell off the floor is one way, it's not the only way.
A good trainer/lifter should train the pattern, adapting the specific exercise(s) to the individual's needs/limitations.
3 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »I hope I don't NEED to deadlift because I can't atm....I've been dealing with SI joint dysfunction/sacral pain for about 6 weeks and deadlifts really aggravated the pain. Squats and bent over rows also...so I'm trying to figure out lower body strength training without those lifts.
Maybe after the inflammation goes away. I had crawling on the floor back pain. Best neurosurgeon in town looked a x-rays/MRIs said my issue was SI joint inflammation and/or psoas issues. When I asked the cause he said too much sitting (I workout but have a 8-10 hr a day office job plus about 2 hours commute). He said after PT to get things moving better squats and deadlifts were best way to prevent.0 -
Single leg press (less load on the body). Same with single arm rows, but with a support (like an incline bench and facing prone) so you don't have to have your back hold the load in position.DancingMoosie wrote: »I hope I don't NEED to deadlift because I can't atm....I've been dealing with SI joint dysfunction/sacral pain for about 6 weeks and deadlifts really aggravated the pain. Squats and bent over rows also...so I'm trying to figure out lower body strength training without those lifts.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't have access to any machines. My gym only has bars and plates, so I'm mostly just working out at home with my dumbbells. I did "deadlift" rows today with 7.5lb dumbbells and it's not hurting yet. Last time I tried my 50lb curve bar, it hurt a lot. 😭1 -
Training so many people of different age ranges in my clientele, I was asked one time by one of my older clients on why I don't have him deadlift in our program. He marvels at some of the younger ones deadlifting 315lbs + off the floor. Even girls are lifting 250lbs off the floor.
I mentioned to him that based on his goals and because I want to keep him safe and injury free as possible (he's in his 60's), I don't include deadlifts in the program, but we do a lot of back work with rows, pullups, etc.
Now IF a client really wants to deadlift, I'll include it in a program, but max lifts aren't for anyone over a certain age IMO. The risk/satisfaction just isn't worth it since I've seen many a member doing them over a certain age get injured somehow and recovery is quite long.
Many clients over 50, I'll have do rack deadlifts if they want to have deadlifts in their program. It's rarely a few (I can count on one hand how many I've had in years over 50 years old) that do it from the floor.
But in reality, what does one apply a heavy deadlift to in everyday life? I mean even if say a box was 100lbs, I don't see many lifting it off the floor without assistance.
Thoughts?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Rows and pull-ups don't really target the same muscles as the deadlift https://barbend.com/deadlift/#MUSCLE
From the article:
"In a 2018 study from the Journal of Exercise and Fitness, authors noted that the gluteus maximus, rectus femoris, and biceps femoris were highly active during the conventional deadlift"
Not getting near as much glute work from rows and pullups as hip hinge (deadlift) movements.
Another good article
https://hashimashi.com/deadlift-muscles-worked/#what muscles do deadlifts work the most
2 -
Hip thrust, rack deadlifts, squats and RDLs (with moderate resistance) all address these and I use them somewhere with every client regardless of age.Theoldguy1 wrote: »The hip hinge (basic deadlift motion) is considered to be one of the basic human movement patterns, some sources:
https://www.otpbooks.com/dan-john-5-basic-human-movements/
https://www.strongfirst.com/seven-basic-human-movements/
https://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/7-exercises/
https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-6-foundational-movement-patterns/
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a38375837/athlean-x-essential-exercises-program-cavaliere/
Now remember, this is saying you need to train the hip hinge pattern. While deadlifts with a barbell off the floor is one way, it's not the only way.
A good trainer/lifter should train the pattern, adapting the specific exercise(s) to the individual's needs/limitations.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Which is why I mentioned above exercises.Theoldguy1 wrote: »Training so many people of different age ranges in my clientele, I was asked one time by one of my older clients on why I don't have him deadlift in our program. He marvels at some of the younger ones deadlifting 315lbs + off the floor. Even girls are lifting 250lbs off the floor.
I mentioned to him that based on his goals and because I want to keep him safe and injury free as possible (he's in his 60's), I don't include deadlifts in the program, but we do a lot of back work with rows, pullups, etc.
Now IF a client really wants to deadlift, I'll include it in a program, but max lifts aren't for anyone over a certain age IMO. The risk/satisfaction just isn't worth it since I've seen many a member doing them over a certain age get injured somehow and recovery is quite long.
Many clients over 50, I'll have do rack deadlifts if they want to have deadlifts in their program. It's rarely a few (I can count on one hand how many I've had in years over 50 years old) that do it from the floor.
But in reality, what does one apply a heavy deadlift to in everyday life? I mean even if say a box was 100lbs, I don't see many lifting it off the floor without assistance.
Thoughts?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Rows and pull-ups don't really target the same muscles as the deadlift https://barbend.com/deadlift/#MUSCLE
From the article:
"In a 2018 study from the Journal of Exercise and Fitness, authors noted that the gluteus maximus, rectus femoris, and biceps femoris were highly active during the conventional deadlift"
Not getting near as much glute work from rows and pullups as hip hinge (deadlift) movements.
Another good article
https://hashimashi.com/deadlift-muscles-worked/#what muscles do deadlifts work the most
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.0
-
The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.
Of course you don't do deadlifts solely for glutes, it's pretty much a full body exercise.
Deadlifts will make the top 3-5 in virtually any list of movements to train the glutes so yeah pretty effective, not far from it as you say.1 -
Once I started adding weighted hip thrusts for glutes into my routine, my deadlift numbers leaped higher.1
-
Theoldguy1 wrote: »The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.
Of course you don't do deadlifts solely for glutes, it's pretty much a full body exercise.
Deadlifts will make the top 3-5 in virtually any list of movements to train the glutes so yeah pretty effective, not far from it as you say.
According to who?
You can read this article as to why the barbell deadlift is not particularly great for hypertrophy :
https://www.rntfitness.co.uk/deadlifts-overrated-muscle-building/
0 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »The deadlift is far from being the most effective exercise for your glutes. You don't deadlift for the sole purpose of training your glutes.
Of course you don't do deadlifts solely for glutes, it's pretty much a full body exercise.
Deadlifts will make the top 3-5 in virtually any list of movements to train the glutes so yeah pretty effective, not far from it as you say.
According to who?
You can read this article as to why the barbell deadlift is not particularly great for hypertrophy :
https://www.rntfitness.co.uk/deadlifts-overrated-muscle-building/
Here are a few examples. The Internet is your friend.
https://central.gymshark.com/article/top-5-exercises-to-grow-your-glutes
https://barbend.com/best-glutes-exercises/
https://powerliftingtechnique.com/compound-glute-exercises/
https://swolverine.com/blogs/blog/best-glute-exercises
0 -
I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.
Please tell me I don't need to do squats ....
5 -
Need to.......no, however it is a functional movement that most people do daily. Getting up from a seat as an example. You can supplement with leg press, lunges, etc., but doing a form of squat is beneficial overall.I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.
Please tell me I don't need to do squats ....
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Need to.......no, however it is a functional movement that most people do daily. Getting up from a seat as an example. You can supplement with leg press, lunges, etc., but doing a form of squat is beneficial overall.I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.
Please tell me I don't need to do squats ....
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yeah I was joking - I just really hate them. My doctor already told me I need to do squats.
Me: "But I hate them."
Her: "You can hate me while you do them."8
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions