Reverse Dieting

tofu_taco

Hello everyone! I'm curious if anyone has experience with reverse dieting. I have recently started tracking my meals here and am finding it difficult to eat more than 1200 calories per day/more than approximately 80 grams of protein per day. I eat a decent amount of veggies, fiber, and whole foods and am very satisfied. It doesn't seem right to force myself to eat when I'm not hungry. However, I've been hearing stories from others who have followed similar paths and sabotaged their efforts by not eating enough and not getting enough protein. I have already adjusted my diet from a vegan one to incorporate eggs and fish in an attempt to hit my macros. I have also cut out alcohol completely and am drinking a gallon of water per day. I fear I'm not going to reach my goals, but it also doesn't make sense to me that one can be in a healthy deficit and still not see results, especially when adding more food would feel unnatural. Does anyone have experience with reverse dieting?

Most days I'm eating oatmeal topped with nuts, seeds, and blueberries for breakfast. Carrots and hummus OR celery and peanut butter for a snack. Eggs, broccoli, and avocado for lunch. Protein shake for a snack. Fish and zucchini for dinner.

I also do about an hour of low-impact cardio each day. Am I destroying my metabolism?

neanderthin

Are you saying the vegan diet made you hungrier, ate more and gained weight because of it?

Sinisterbarbie1

Are you weighing everything you are eating on a digital scale and recording it accurately? There are a lot of inaccurate entries in the database and if you aren’t weighing everything you eat you may be eating more calories than you think you are eating. Measuring cups are notoriously inaccurate, and measures like one piece or large/medium/small of something are too, obviously. There is no reason to adopt a vegan or vegetarian way of eating in order to lose weight or to change from that style of eating if that is what works for you. Start out bby recording everything you eat accurately, then seeing what “costs” you a lot in calories for not a lot in satisfaction and swap things out for equally (or almost as ) satisfying foods and go from there.

tofu_taco

@neanderthin no Following a vegan diet lead to me being 15lbs underweight without exercise because I ate even less (beans are much more filling than fish)

@Sinisterbarbie1 I do measure what I can, down to the tbsps of hummus, and buy pre-packaged portions of nuts, seeds, etc. to get as accurate a calorie count as possible. But I don't own a food scale so I don't really know how much fish I'm eating. I'll have to invest in one of those to get a more accurate idea! I actually do hope I'm eating more calories than I think so I don't have to worry about putting myself into 'starvation mode' - I definitely don't FEEL like I'm missing anything at all. My main concern is that when I log out of MFP eventually, I won't ever be able to eat more than this current deficit. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it

tomcustombuilder

The only way to really gauge the effects of X amount of calories is to take in that amount for 3-4 weeks and review the outcome. Keep in mind that it’s weekly calories that matter as daily numbers will vary.

Without a foods scale it will be difficult to be accurate.

As far as calories after your deficit period you may be married to those calories to maintain your weight as your maintenance calories go down as your weight goes down. When your weight loss stops for a few weeks it means you’re at maintenance with your current weekly calories

Sinisterbarbie1

So i am confused - you are 15 pounds underweight and trying to eat at a deficit? You should be eating to gain weight no?

tomcustombuilder

OP, posting your age, height, weight and gender would be a big help. In reality everyone asking for advice should always include this info in their posts for a more accurate assessment of their question.

AnnPT77

tofu_taco wrote: »

Hello everyone! I'm curious if anyone has experience with reverse dieting. I have recently started tracking my meals here and am finding it difficult to eat more than 1200 calories per day/more than approximately 80 grams of protein per day. I eat a decent amount of veggies, fiber, and whole foods and am very satisfied. It doesn't seem right to force myself to eat when I'm not hungry. However, I've been hearing stories from others who have followed similar paths and sabotaged their efforts by not eating enough and not getting enough protein. I have already adjusted my diet from a vegan one to incorporate eggs and fish in an attempt to hit my macros. I have also cut out alcohol completely and am drinking a gallon of water per day. I fear I'm not going to reach my goals, but it also doesn't make sense to me that one can be in a healthy deficit and still not see results, especially when adding more food would feel unnatural. Does anyone have experience with reverse dieting?

Most days I'm eating oatmeal topped with nuts, seeds, and blueberries for breakfast. Carrots and hummus OR celery and peanut butter for a snack. Eggs, broccoli, and avocado for lunch. Protein shake for a snack. Fish and zucchini for dinner.

I also do about an hour of low-impact cardio each day. Am I destroying my metabolism?

I gradually increased my calories up to maintenance after weight loss, but didn't do a formal, structured reverse diet. Some people - even those who maintain for a few weeks at the start - see resumed gradual weight loss at initially estimated maintenance calories. Based on experiences I've read here, that can vary individually. To me, it implies that reverse dieting could work for at least some people.

You don't really give us enough info to give a nuanced answer. You're logging 1200 (or less?) and around 80g protein. How long have you been doing this? How old and tall are you? What is your daily life like (job, chores, hobbies, etc.) outside of intentional exercise? What is your hour of cardio (type of activity, intensity - not just impact)?

Are you logging the exercise separately as per the standard MFP method, and eating those calories back, too? If so, how do you estimate the exercise calories?

What are your goals? Gain weight? Increase fitness? Something(s) else?

Most women can eat more than 1200 calories and lose weight. If you're trying to gain, yes, you should eat more, unless you're quite petite.

Size also matters for protein needs. 80 grams daily would be on the minimal side for an average-sized woman, especially if she's trying to lose weight, gain muscle, achieve other fitness goals, or is older (like 60+).

You need 4-6 weeks of experiential data to test a calorie level and activity regimen combination, comparing body weight at the same relative point in at least 2 different menstrual cycles. Until then, a calculator estimate - like you can get from setting up your MFP profile - is your best starting point.

You probably don't need a gallon of water a day. For many people, drinking to thirst works fine. Urine color is another check on hydration - you want pale yellow (though it may be bright yellow if you get unnecessarily much of certain water-soluble vitamins - you just don't want dark yellow, brownish. Clear is likely over-hydration. If you feel you're not eating enough, would you possibly have more appetite/capacity if you cut back on your water intake?

It should be possible to get enough protein as a vegan/vegetarian on adequate calories, though some find it easier when using protein powder or other protein supplementation. (I'm vegetarian, BTW - for well over 48 years.) Protein quality - essential amino acid (EAA) completeness - is a possible theoretical issue when getting lots of protein from plant sources, but needn't be complicated.

This is a good evidence-based resource for vegan nutrition:

https://veganhealth.org/

You can get an evidence-based estimate for protein needs here, along with an explanation of the estimate:

https://examine.com/protein-intake-calculator/
https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/

You can find a very helpful list of efficient protein sources (from food) linked to this thread, and it includes both plant and animal sources:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

Take a look, maybe you can find some good protein sources that would be less filling for you?

Appetite may or may not be a good guide to calorie needs. It's complicated. If you're trying to eat more, but struggling, consider not only what may be higher calorie but less filling **, but also whether spreading your eating into more but smaller meals/snacks would help.

** This thread includes a list of calorie-dense foods, ways to eat more with a limited appetite:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10326769/are-you-a-hard-gainer-please-read#latest

Finally, I think you're worrying beyond what's realistic about "metabolic damage". Someone at an extended calorie deficit may in fact (in essence) train their body to require fewer calories than a similar-sized person who didn't cut calories to an extreme, but the effects are limited in typical cases.

The first few posts in this thread (by the person who started the thread) explain the technicalities of it better than I could:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1

You may also find some insights for countering those effects in this thread:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1

Best wishes for success with your goals!

tomcustombuilder

Reverse dieting works if when you meet your goal weight you’re still losing. At that point you increase calories to your new maintenance however if you get to your goal weight and you haven’t lost for a few weeks then you’re probably at your new maintenance and increasingly cals will most likely lead to added weight.

So many people get to their goal and figure “job done” and increase calories and put the weight back on. It’s a fine line here. Getting the fat off is one thing and keeping it off is another, usually more difficult endeavor

neanderthin

Sinisterbarbie1 wrote: »

So i am confused - you are 15 pounds underweight and trying to eat at a deficit? You should be eating to gain weight no?

Yes, that's a confusing piece of information for sure.

kshama2001

tofu_taco wrote: »

@neanderthin no Following a vegan diet lead to me being 15lbs underweight without exercise because I ate even less (beans are much more filling than fish)

@Sinisterbarbie1 I do measure what I can, down to the tbsps of hummus, and buy pre-packaged portions of nuts, seeds, etc. to get as accurate a calorie count as possible. But I don't own a food scale so I don't really know how much fish I'm eating. I'll have to invest in one of those to get a more accurate idea! I actually do hope I'm eating more calories than I think so I don't have to worry about putting myself into 'starvation mode' - I definitely don't FEEL like I'm missing anything at all. My main concern is that when I log out of MFP eventually, I won't ever be able to eat more than this current deficit. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it

It's not clear to me what your goals are and what is happening now. Are you trying to gain weight?

Are you using a weight trending app like Libra or Happy Scale?

Definitely get a food scale.

Here's my favorite article on 'starvation mode':

https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/