Overhead press without hurting back?

herringboxes

46 F non-althlete here. Just starting weights and looking fo build up some strength.

My lower back has a weak spot that hurts sometimes if I strain it, no big deal but it’s annoying. I am hoping if I build up my core this might improve.

I’d like to do some light overhead presses as part of my routine. The amount I can physically lift with my arms can cause strain on my back.

If I reduce the weight and keep my back comfortable, will I eventually be able to increase the weight, do you think? (I know nobody knows!! And nobody can offer medical advice!)

Have you experienced strengthening your core and improving minor back weaknesses?

tomcustombuilder

Have your hands in a neutral position facing towards you when pressing up and don’t arch your back.

Try it unilaterally as this can be better until your core gets stronger. Use light weight to start and work on your form

herringboxes

Interesting. If I understand correctly, this will shift some burden away from my spine and toward my core, shoulders, and arms?

I will try that. My next overhead press day isn’t till Thursday but will give it a shot.

Retroguy2000

It sounds like you need to build up your core. That should be your first priority. Then when doing lifts like OHP, make sure you are engaging your core and managing your breathing correctly.

Exercises to improve your core include plank, or if that's too easy there are ways to progress it. Also hollow body knee raise, bird dog, and reverse hypers. If you don't have access to a machine for reverse hypers, you can do them with bodyweight from a firm bed or table.

herringboxes

Retroguy2000, I want to thank you for your suggestion of planks. I’ve started doing them daily, one minute at a time twice daily. Obviously it’s too early to have any real results but I really feel like they will be very useful to me.

Retroguy2000

Good stuff. The world record is 9 1/2 hours btw. Which I mention just to reinforce that you may have to think about progression before long

Try the hollow body hold next. And the reverse hypers. Don't hyper extend those as some videos will incorrectly show, just raise to parallel. Good luck!

tomcustombuilder

herringboxes wrote: »

Interesting. If I understand correctly, this will shift some burden away from my spine and toward my core, shoulders, and arms?

I will try that. My next overhead press day isn’t till Thursday but will give it a shot.

yes you want to engage the core when you do the lift. The core is used in almost all exercises and engaging it will assist with the lifts as well as protect the low back. Do direct core exercises as mentioned by the other poster.

AnnPT77

Don't forget that core is a 360-degree kind of thing: I'm mostly seeing the linear exercises recommended so far, but it's good to have some rotational/anti-rotational core exercises in the mix as well. Some plank reach-through or rotational plank variations are one possibility as you're able to progress planks to do those safely, palloff presses and their variations, various carries including offset carries, etc.

Chieflrg

Not knowing your programming or response there isn't a solid advice other than utilizing appropriate intensities with sufficient volume within well written programming hopefully with auto regulation is the scientific and proven way to lower injury risk.

If you are experiencing some sort of back tweak, I certainly would look into your programming including frequency, intensity, volume, lift selection, possibly technique, and what response you are trying to elicit by overhead pressing. I'm not sure your reasoning for wanting to increasing weight in relation to your goal(s) but it certainly would help to know how you are measuring adaptations before we add weight as well as your goal(s).

ninerbuff

Form is usually the first culprit. Get your form assessed first.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

herringboxes

To be clear, my back issue is not weights-related, I had it for some years and only recently started the exercise. I seem to strain it when bending over a lot, whether with housework or yardwork or whatever.

I don’t “need” to increase my weight on OHP. I just can’t lift anywhere near what my arms can do. I’m lifting light, just started, I just could at least double the weight if my back was fine.

I have been just really concentrating on working my core. I’m seeing results in general, but my back is still kind of sensitive to the same issues. It’s way to early tovthink it’s not working, though.

AnnPT77

herringboxes wrote: »

To be clear, my back issue is not weights-related, I had it for some years and only recently started the exercise. I seem to strain it when bending over a lot, whether with housework or yardwork or whatever.

I don’t “need” to increase my weight on OHP. I just can’t lift anywhere near what my arms can do. I’m lifting light, just started, I just could at least double the weight if my back was fine.

I have been just really concentrating on working my core. I’m seeing results in general, but my back is still kind of sensitive to the same issues. It’s way to early tovthink it’s not working, though.

Form also applies to daily life, in the sense that movement patterns or postural issues can cause or aggravate problems. Many or most of my physical issues have their roots in daily life stuff, though loading up during exercise can trigger some body part to go from merely irritable to actually painful.

herringboxes

That is a great point!!

I have been extremely bad about using my body as intended, in particular avoiding the squatting position.

A few weeks ago, I could not do a single squat, and struggled to get up from the foor - despite normal weight.

I’ve been working at it and while my progress is hardly impressive, I’m quite pleased that I can do unweighted squats now and, with effort, can go to a deep squat on my heels and get up without pushing off with my hands.

So now when I’m getting an onion from the bottom drawer of my fridge, I do a deep squat instead of bending over like I used to.

I guess I will need to notice if some of my activities should be done differently, whether using a squat or bending over in a better way (using the knees more).

Folks, I have neglected the heck out of my knees and my back has paid the price. But NO MORE 💪

AnnPT77

You mention recurring back problems over a span of time. Assuming you're in the US, have you sought out physical therapy for that, and if not, can you? A good physical therapist can assess your movement patterns, and find some things that may not be obvious, then recommend interventions to improve them.

Just as an example - not to say that this specific thing would apply to you - I was assessed because of knee pain. The popular wisdom is that that's due to weak quads - which is often true. In my case, the therapist found that my quad strength was very good (from exercise activity I'd been doing a long time). However, I had tightness (reduced mobility) in my hips that was negatively affecting my gait, causing more knee stress. I would've had no idea. The prescribed exercises truly helped.

If you're not able to access physical therapy in person, you might check out "Bob & Brad" on YouTube. They're long-experienced professional physical therapists with lots of good video content, including lots on low back issues. (I'd caution that while their physical therapy advice seems good - has been endorsed by friends who have expertise - their comments on diet seem quite questionable to me . . . but that's outside their scope of practice.)

herringboxes

That’s a great idea. Really great. I’m thinking I might do that, try to get PT through my GP’s office.

Will have to wait till July because I’ll be away, but I like the idea a lot.

tomcustombuilder

AnnPT77 wrote: »

If you're not able to access physical therapy in person, you might check out "Bob & Brad" on YouTube. They're long-experienced professional physical therapists with lots of good video content, including lots on low back issues. (I'd caution that while their physical therapy advice seems good - has been endorsed by friends who have expertise - their comments on diet seem quite questionable to me . . . but that's outside their scope of practice.)

lol, Bob and Brad. I started watching them after my knee replacement. Pretty good info however yes, their diet advice, along with most YouTubers is not accurate.

nossmf

While building up your core, why not do your OHP from a sitting position? This can greatly reduce the stress on the lower back.

Another idea is to try lifting unilaterally, meaning one arm at a time. Stand next to a vertical support (like the cable machine or a door jamb) and grasp it with the arm closest while you lift a DB with the other arm. The support can help keep better posture while you work, basically an intermediate step between a seated version and a standing two-handed version.

DecryingShame

If you haven't already, you might want to get a physical therapist to take a look. Some back pain is caused by joints being locked up or out of place and exercising isn't going to help. In fact, it could hurt. A good physical therapist will also give you tips on keeping your back safe during exercise.

herringboxes

I hesitated before bumping this thread back up again, but why not.

I’ve just kept working on the overhead press while not pushing it too hard, just letting my core catch up. I no longer feel like my back is weaker than my arms, they feel in sync. Which is great!

I’ve been thinking scoliosis my be a big factor for me overall. I’ve paid it no mind all my life but suddenly it feels like it may answer a lot of questions.

I’m sure everybody hates squats, but I feel like I might hate them at least 25% more than the average person. As a newbie, I try to learn good form, and one thing I read said to push through the heels to return to standing.

Wow, this simple and obvious instruction has proved quite difficult for me! I don’t even see how I can contort my body to be able to do that. My weight balances on the forward part of my foot, and my efforts to rebalance to heels have thus far been unsuccessful. I’m sure I could be much stronger pushing from the heels, sounds quite lovely. I wonder if scoliosis could be a factor affecting my form there.

nossmf

Sounds to me like you have tight, inflexible calves preventing you shifting your weight further back on your heels. Try stretching your calves out before your next squat session. Easiest way is to stand about 2 feet from a wall, facing it. Stretch out your arms as if you were going to do a pushup from the wall. Now lower your torso towards the wall, keeping your feet flat against the ground, until you feel a stretch in your calves. Wait for 10-15 seconds, push back to upright for 10-15 seconds. Lean forward again, this time aiming for just a hair deeper than the first time, and repeat for a total of 3-4 stretches. Do this before and after each squat session.

herringboxes

Will try that today 💪

AnnPT77

herringboxes wrote: »

I hesitated before bumping this thread back up again, but why not.

I’ve just kept working on the overhead press while not pushing it too hard, just letting my core catch up. I no longer feel like my back is weaker than my arms, they feel in sync. Which is great!

I’ve been thinking scoliosis my be a big factor for me overall. I’ve paid it no mind all my life but suddenly it feels like it may answer a lot of questions.

I’m sure everybody hates squats, but I feel like I might hate them at least 25% more than the average person. As a newbie, I try to learn good form, and one thing I read said to push through the heels to return to standing.

Wow, this simple and obvious instruction has proved quite difficult for me! I don’t even see how I can contort my body to be able to do that. My weight balances on the forward part of my foot, and my efforts to rebalance to heels have thus far been unsuccessful. I’m sure I could be much stronger pushing from the heels, sounds quite lovely. I wonder if scoliosis could be a factor affecting my form there.

Maybe ankle flexibility as part of that? Inflexible ankles are a kind of common limitation on squat depth. I'm interpreting weight-on-forward-foot as a compromise move to improve depth, which is speculative.

ETA: Timing overlap. Similar intent to nossmf's comment above.

herringboxes

I did the stretches today along with the squats. Too early to say if it improved my form or not, but will definitely keep doing them because if nothing else, I could really feel my calves loosen up over the period of time I did them.

claireychn074

herringboxes wrote: »

I hesitated before bumping this thread back up again, but why not.

I’ve just kept working on the overhead press while not pushing it too hard, just letting my core catch up. I no longer feel like my back is weaker than my arms, they feel in sync. Which is great!

I’ve been thinking scoliosis my be a big factor for me overall. I’ve paid it no mind all my life but suddenly it feels like it may answer a lot of questions.

I’m sure everybody hates squats, but I feel like I might hate them at least 25% more than the average person. As a newbie, I try to learn good form, and one thing I read said to push through the heels to return to standing.

Wow, this simple and obvious instruction has proved quite difficult for me! I don’t even see how I can contort my body to be able to do that. My weight balances on the forward part of my foot, and my efforts to rebalance to heels have thus far been unsuccessful. I’m sure I could be much stronger pushing from the heels, sounds quite lovely. I wonder if scoliosis could be a factor affecting my form there.

You might want to book a sess with an experienced PT to look at your squat form, as it could be something really easy to fix (but difficult to figure out yourself). It could well be mobility or tight muscles, but it could also be your stance (width of feet and angle), the bar position (high bar vs low bar), width of hands and upper mobility. You might also find wearing lifting shoes gives you a bit more mobility (ie the ones which have a raised heel). There are lots of little differences you can make in a squat which can make it more comfortable, and it took me quite a while to sort mine out. I still sometimes lean forward a bit too much as I’m not very good at back squats, and that throws the weight onto my forefoot.

Retroguy2000

@herringboxes

@claireychn074 mentioned squat stance above. Our hips typically get in the way of squatting deep, and you'll probably find one width works better for you than others. Coincidentally, the genetics in the areas of Eastern Europe have hip sockets which enable them to squat deeper, and they have been very successful in weightlifting. You can also put a couple of small plates on the floor to put your heels on them. You definitely do not want to risk butt wink as you try to go deeper.

herringboxes

Will butt wink kill or maim me?

Claire, I think you’re right, I need someone to watch me and tell me what I’m doing wrong. I have low vision (blind) so watching videos is of limited help and I can’t see myself in the mirror. If I can get a single session for a limited cost, I’d like that.

Wouldn’t raising my heels compound the issue? I think it would lead me to lean forward more. I try to keep weight on my heels but my balance just seems off.

I do take a somewhat wide, toes and knees somewhat out, stance. The narrower and toes/knees straight stance is outright uncomfortable, almost painful, to the degree I don’t think I’m constructed that way.

Retroguy2000

If you go low enough you may get butt wink, which is absolutely to be avoided. It's often an ankle mobility issue. Raising heels slightly on a weight plate say, helps to get squat depth without the butt wink. With your issue of going forwards on to your toes there is probably something else going on with your form, and from the way you describe it I wonder if you're maintaining a neutral spine.

There was a thread here, probably in the bodybuilding sub-forum, where posters would post videos for form checks. I don't know if those who did so are still active. I'm sure you could post yours on reddit for assistance. Or maybe film yourself, and have a friend talk you through what may be different from a good form video.

Jonni Shreve (IFBB pro) has excellent form tutorials. Check out some of his vids on squats. Sorry, I know you said you have vision issues, but maybe they can still be of some help.

https://www.youtube.com/@JonniShreve/search?query=squat

There are alternatives to back squats, if it's likely to continue being an issue for you.

herringboxes

Great ideas. I’m quite sure I’m not acheiving a neutral spine.

I have a Planet Fitness membership so I can use the treadmill (I can’t jog unaided on the street) and I see they offer some form of group fitness training, included in membership. Not sure if that includes a look at form but plan to check it out.

Also, I agree I should video the squat, I can’t see video very well but I might see something (I can see video better than real life). And if I must post my awful squat on Reddit, gulp, but I’d definitely rather do that than die of butt wink or something.

Retroguy2000

To clarify what butt wink is, it's the pelvis tucking under your body at the bottom of the squat, resulting in a rounded lower back.

As one of the first Google hits says:

"Despite its cheeky name, butt wink is actually quite serious. It can lead to disc injuries, stress fractures and sacroiliac joint problems."

claireychn074

Before you can see a PT (try to get one that has experience, even a powerlifting coach or S&C coach if you can find and afford one), try some body weight squats. If you have a broom or stick, pretend that’s the barbell (so it’s unweighted but so that you’re in the real position) and try different foot positions to see where you feel most stable. Remember that you need to brace your tummy, your upper back and even your shoulders to get that tight neutral line. As even having a loose core can make your weight shift.

Then try with a narrow stance, and move increasing out until you feel uncomfortable. See which position feels most stable and work from there. Even doing body weight squats slowly without weight will benefit you, and over time you will get that balance. It’s just so much easier with an expert watching you and telling you! I have a weightlifting coach and he still has to correct my form 🤷‍♂️

peazoo1325

The best way to find out what’s holding you back is to hold onto a vertical bar and try to lower yourself straight down without falling over. Keep your back straight. You may need to widen your stance and even flare you feet out. Go as low as you can and try to stand up from there. This exercise is optimal for squatting but also exposes the best you can do based upon your flexibility and limb length.

The next way to build up squat strength is to hold a dumbbell or kettlebell (it doesn’t have to heavy) in front of your chest. When you do this you will notice how the weight counterbalances your body to feel similar to that holding a vertical bar. That is what you want to feel for every type of squat exercise.

For each exercise you need to tighten your core or transverse abdominal muscle. This is easier said than done until you build strength.

Performing the motions even partially will build strength in your weakest areas first. So have patience. You will get there