We trashed the sodas, chips, cookies

Sabine_Stroehm

I see we've gone back to flouting basic pragmatics and semantics again. This thread has gone round and round and round again.

jonnythan

I see we've gone back to flouting basic pragmatics and semantics again. This thread has gone round and round and round again.

Wikipedia calls them "Weasel words." They're words that seem to convey information, but actually mean nothing.

On MFP, common weasel words are "processed," "clean," and "natural." These words convey zero information. For example, someone can say "I don't eat processed foods" with a mouth full of cheese and bread.

Cindyinpg

I was interested in seeing a list of these unprocessed foods, but it doesn't seem to be forthcoming. Raw milk? Unprocessed eggs? A few seeds, nuts and berries... maybe.

mrmagee3

On MFP, common weasel words are "processed," "clean," and "natural." These words convey zero information. For example, someone can say "I don't eat processed foods" with a mouth full of cheese and bread.

They convey plenty of information to those who aren't trying to be willfully obtuse to score internet points. Saying things like "all food is processed" is a great gotcha, if that's what you're into. Reasonable adults, having reasonable communication, understand idiomatic expressions and don't feel the need to call out every one.

Reasonable people can see a dichotomy between "processed" and "natural" foods, and understand that the intention is to refer to a scale in which one end includes foods that are processed as minimally as possible (in before "picking the vegetable is processing") versus foods that are processed significantly before making it to your shelves. There is a difference in processing levels between leaf spinach and frozen Applebee's spinach dip. There's a difference in processing levels between fresh mozzarella and Cheez Whiz. Where on that scale the speaker draws his line is arbitrary, and completely up to him. Why he draws the line somewhere could be an interesting conversation, if one weren't so inclined towards pedantic discourse.

None of the above has anything to do with whether or not a given food at either end of the spectrum. is healthful or not, within the bounds of a relatively normal human diet. If a person loses weight going from Cheez Whiz to fresh mozzarella, they've made a good choice and are likely healthier for it. If a person loses weight going from mozzarella to Cheez Whiz, then they've made a good choice and are likely healthier for it, too.

Cindyinpg

On MFP, common weasel words are "processed," "clean," and "natural." These words convey zero information. For example, someone can say "I don't eat processed foods" with a mouth full of cheese and bread.

They convey plenty of information to those who aren't trying to be willfully obtuse to score internet points. Saying things like "all food is processed" is a great gotcha, if that's what you're into. Reasonable adults, having reasonable communication, understand idiomatic expressions and don't feel the need to call out every one.

Reasonable people can see a dichotomy between "processed" and "natural" foods, and understand that the intention is to refer to a scale in which one end includes foods that are processed as minimally as possible (in before "picking the vegetable is processing") versus foods that are processed significantly before making it to your shelves. There is a difference in processing levels between leaf spinach and frozen Applebee's spinach dip. There's a difference in processing levels between fresh mozzarella and Cheez Whiz. Where on that scale the speaker draws his line is arbitrary, and completely up to him. Why he draws the line somewhere could be an interesting conversation, if one weren't so inclined towards pedantic discourse.

None of the above has anything to do with whether or not a given food at either end of the spectrum. is healthful or not, within the bounds of a relatively normal human diet. If a person loses weight going from Cheez Whiz to fresh mozzarella, they've made a good choice and are likely healthier for it. If a person loses weight going from mozzarella to Cheez Whiz, then they've made a good choice and are likely healthier for it, too.

Absolutely agree with the bolder part above! Whatever works. The problem I have is that people are being encouraged to eat an "unprocessed" or "clean" diet when absolutely no one can define either one outside of their own opinions. Makes it a little tough for a newcomer don't you think? Reminds me of The Biggest Loser and BOb and Jillian going on and on about how horrible processed burgers and cupcakes are while promoting Subway, Jello, Biggest Loser protein shakes, gum, Yoplait smoothie mixes and so on as perfectly healthy. It's ridiculous.

mrmagee3

Absolutely agree with the bolder part above! Whatever works. The problem I have is that people are being encouraged to eat an "unprocessed" or "clean" diet when absolutely no one can define either one outside of their own opinions. Makes it a little tough for a newcomer don't you think?

Honestly? Not really. I'd like to think that most people are capable of listening to what another person says, determining whether the person is believable, and making a decision based upon that determination. Is it possible that they could be wrong? Sure. In that case, I expect that most people are able to understand that something isn't working, and will go find something else.

The flip side of the "calories are all that matter" philosophy is that literally anything - "clean eating", keto, IIFYM, etc., can be a workable eating philosophy, within the bounds of a normal human diet. We get so caught up in our chosen methods that we lose sight of the fact that what really matters is whether or not something is successful for somebody. That, I think, is what we should focus on. Having a person come out and say, "I'm trying clean eating," shouldn't be met with a chorus of "I love ice cream and eat it every day." It should be met with, "good luck, and come back in a month or two and let us know how you're doing."

When the person comes back, you can then have the conversation of whether or not his choices are helping him meet his goals. That's when advice to change a plan can be useful. Doing it at the beginning sounds, to me, like self-congratulatory noise without much purpose.

I like having these conversations with people because I often learn something from them. I've definitely learned things from people I didn't think I would -- in conversations I didn't want to have. Either our goal is to support and help people, and have a good conversation, or to sit around and pat ourselves on the back.

Cindyinpg

Absolutely agree with the bolder part above! Whatever works. The problem I have is that people are being encouraged to eat an "unprocessed" or "clean" diet when absolutely no one can define either one outside of their own opinions. Makes it a little tough for a newcomer don't you think?

Honestly? Not really. I'd like to think that most people are capable of listening to what another person says, determining whether the person is believable, and making a decision based upon that determination. Is it possible that they could be wrong? Sure. In that case, I expect that most people are able to understand that something isn't working, and will go find something else.

The flip side of the "calories are all that matter" philosophy is that literally anything - "clean eating", keto, IIFYM, etc., can be a workable eating philosophy, within the bounds of a normal human diet. We get so caught up in our chosen methods that we lose sight of the fact that what really matters is whether or not something is successful for somebody. That, I think, is what we should focus on. Having a person come out and say, "I'm trying clean eating," shouldn't be met with a chorus of "I love ice cream and eat it every day." It should be met with, "good luck, and come back in a month or two and let us know how you're doing."

When the person comes back, you can then have the conversation of whether or not his choices are helping him meet his goals. That's when advice to change a plan can be useful. Doing it at the beginning sounds, to me, like self-congratulatory noise without much purpose.

I like having these conversations with people because I often learn something from them. I've definitely learned things from people I didn't think I would -- in conversations I didn't want to have. Either our goal is to support and help people, and have a good conversation, or to sit around and pat ourselves on the back.

Yes, once again, I agree with your points. I, personally, would have congratulated the person who is trying to improve themselves and waited to see if they asked for more advice later. However, in many cases, people are being led to believe that this clean/in-definable eating is the only way to lose weight and be healthy. They do not know that other options exist. No surprise there, in the media we are inundated with so much crap (ketones, HCG etc) that very little common sense filters through anymore. But it is not helpful to be just told to 'eat clean' and 'throw out all the junk' with little or no definition as to what that means. Many people automatically think that means they can't have foods they love, ever again. That's a setup for failure, especially for people who clearly do like a few treats here and there.. But, honestly, I don't know what the solution is, outside of educating people of all the options. I think everyone on this thread is on the same book, just different pages.

magerum

I thought I was done here, but someone mentioned Cheez Wiz

kitana42303

Congratulations on making those changes. I wish you all the best in your weight loss journey.

4homer

i really dont care what changes or how your changing your diet plan (good job on losing the weight) but I dont understand the reasoning with throwing good food away when the food bank could have used it. Hungry and thirsty kids would kill for it. That just my opinion though.

Mslmesq

I thought I was done here, but someone mentioned Cheez Wiz

Here you go:

Cheez Whiz is a thick processed cheese sauce or spread sold by Kraft Foods. It was developed by a team led by food scientist Edwin Traisman (1915–2007). While many sources give its national debut as 1953, it was advertised by Kraft and retailers in several states late in 1952.

The bright yellow, viscous paste usually comes in a glass jar and is used as a topping for cheesesteaks, corn chips, hot dogs and other foods. It is marketed in Canada, Mexico, the Philippines, the United States and Venezuela.

Cheez Whiz is one of a number of "processed cheese foods", a category including some types of individually wrapped cheese slices. These products contain regular cheese that has been reprocessed along with additional ingredients such as emulsifiers and stabilizing agents, such as xanthan gum or carrageenan. These products derive their tanginess and flavor from additional ingredients such as citric acid and flavoring compounds. Annatto is used for coloring.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheez_Whiz

jonnythan

Cheez Whiz is awesome.

FussyFruitbat

to answer your question we thrashed it. We did a cleanse we we took 48 can of our diet sodas . We opened each one and poured them down the sink.
I joked and said to my buddy we are going to have clean pipes , with all those chemicals it could be draino.
the empty cans went to recycle. hey from now on we are reducing our footprint on the enviroment.

The cookies , the chips, the snack bars, the frosty cereals, the frozen low fat dinners they all ended up in a big paper bag and put it in ithe garden waste bin. We had to bring out an extra garbage bin that week for garbage collection.

hey we congratulated ourselves , hey we are junk food junkees no more.

That's so wasteful.

anemoneprose

Absolutely agree with the bolder part above! Whatever works. The problem I have is that people are being encouraged to eat an "unprocessed" or "clean" diet when absolutely no one can define either one outside of their own opinions. Makes it a little tough for a newcomer don't you think?

Honestly? Not really. I'd like to think that most people are capable of listening to what another person says, determining whether the person is believable, and making a decision based upon that determination. Is it possible that they could be wrong? Sure. In that case, I expect that most people are able to understand that something isn't working, and will go find something else.

The flip side of the "calories are all that matter" philosophy is that literally anything - "clean eating", keto, IIFYM, etc., can be a workable eating philosophy, within the bounds of a normal human diet. We get so caught up in our chosen methods that we lose sight of the fact that what really matters is whether or not something is successful for somebody. That, I think, is what we should focus on. Having a person come out and say, "I'm trying clean eating," shouldn't be met with a chorus of "I love ice cream and eat it every day." It should be met with, "good luck, and come back in a month or two and let us know how you're doing."

When the person comes back, you can then have the conversation of whether or not his choices are helping him meet his goals. That's when advice to change a plan can be useful. Doing it at the beginning sounds, to me, like self-congratulatory noise without much purpose.

I like having these conversations with people because I often learn something from them. I've definitely learned things from people I didn't think I would -- in conversations I didn't want to have.

Who ARE you, Mr Magee? You're altogether too rational for MFP.

Either our goal is to support and help people, and have a good conversation, or to sit around and pat ourselves on the back.

Fair assessment.

magerum

Cheez Whiz is awesome.

+1

glowgirl14

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Mslmesq

Absolutely agree with the bolder part above! Whatever works. The problem I have is that people are being encouraged to eat an "unprocessed" or "clean" diet when absolutely no one can define either one outside of their own opinions. Makes it a little tough for a newcomer don't you think?

Honestly? Not really. I'd like to think that most people are capable of listening to what another person says, determining whether the person is believable, and making a decision based upon that determination. Is it possible that they could be wrong? Sure. In that case, I expect that most people are able to understand that something isn't working, and will go find something else.

The flip side of the "calories are all that matter" philosophy is that literally anything - "clean eating", keto, IIFYM, etc., can be a workable eating philosophy, within the bounds of a normal human diet. We get so caught up in our chosen methods that we lose sight of the fact that what really matters is whether or not something is successful for somebody. That, I think, is what we should focus on. Having a person come out and say, "I'm trying clean eating," shouldn't be met with a chorus of "I love ice cream and eat it every day." It should be met with, "good luck, and come back in a month or two and let us know how you're doing."

When the person comes back, you can then have the conversation of whether or not his choices are helping him meet his goals. That's when advice to change a plan can be useful. Doing it at the beginning sounds, to me, like self-congratulatory noise without much purpose.

I like having these conversations with people because I often learn something from them. I've definitely learned things from people I didn't think I would -- in conversations I didn't want to have.

Who ARE you, Mr Magee? You're altogether too rational for MFP.

Either our goal is to support and help people, and have a good conversation, or to sit around and pat ourselves on the back.

Fair assessment.

lol. True.

jonnythan

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

NonnyMary

I see we've gone back to flouting basic pragmatics and semantics again. This thread has gone round and round and round again.

true dat and in the middle there was a fight about fresh peaches vs poptarts.

glowgirl14

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

You entirely missed the point I was making.

I find it hard to deal with the fact that so many people here are so rude. If you don't agree with a person, either don't comment, or say it nicely.

We were all at "that point" once. Where we wanted a change, and didn't know how to get there.

How is it helpful to belittle people for their choices???

glowgirl14

true dat and in the middle there was a fight about fresh peaches vs poptarts.

Kinda glad I didn't read the whole thing....; )

magerum

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

You entirely missed the point I was making.

I find it hard to deal with the fact that so many people here are so rude. If you don't agree with a person, either don't comment, or say it nicely.

We were all at "that point" once. Where we wanted a change, and didn't know how to get there.

How is it helpful to belittle people for their choices???

Dissenting opinions =/= belittling.

The "don't hurt my feelings" or "don't disagree with me or it's rude" attitude is really a good example of the over sensitivity of an entire generation. Would you like a participation trophy as well?

Cindyinpg

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

But... but... Jillian says to .... So it must not be wasteful or misleading. :laugh:

eric_sg61

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

You entirely missed the point I was making.

I find it hard to deal with the fact that so many people here are so rude. If you don't agree with a person, either don't comment, or say it nicely.

We were all at "that point" once. Where we wanted a change, and didn't know how to get there.

How is it helpful to belittle people for their choices???

Dissenting opinions =/= belittling.

The "don't hurt my feelings" or "don't disagree with me or it's rude" attitude is really a good example of the over sensitivity of an entire generation. Would you like a participation trophy as well?

Achrya

I see we've gone back to flouting basic pragmatics and semantics again. This thread has gone round and round and round again.

true dat and in the middle there was a fight about fresh peaches vs poptarts.

No, there wasn't. It was some guy rather adamently declaring I'm 'special' because I don't like the taste of peaches. Pop tarts were a non-issue (What with pop tarts being almost as gross as peaches.)

Sometimes I swear people just make up events in their heads.


And by sometimes I mean that's what all available evidence leads me to believe.

wild_wild_life

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

You entirely missed the point I was making.

I find it hard to deal with the fact that so many people here are so rude. If you don't agree with a person, either don't comment, or say it nicely.

We were all at "that point" once. Where we wanted a change, and didn't know how to get there.

How is it helpful to belittle people for their choices???

Dissenting opinions =/= belittling.

The "don't hurt my feelings" or "don't disagree with me or it's rude" attitude is really a good example of the over sensitivity of an entire generation. Would you like a participation trophy as well?

Do you honestly not recognize how much of a jerk people have been to the OP in this thread? Really? I find that hard to believe. Of course, given that you immediately turned around and criticized their attitude as what is wrong with an entire generation, maybe I do believe it.

jonnythan

I only read a couple of pages of this...

But this is ridiculous...I cannot understand why so many of the people on here are so rude...

There are nicer ways to say things to people if you don't agree. Just because you've lost a few pounds, you think you have the right to be a jerk to someone who is doing something differently than you?

This is supposed to be a place for SUPPORT AND EDUCATION.

Sure, I have carbs. I have pasta a couple of times a week. I have junk food sometimes. No, I don't think a completely restrictive diet is a good idea for long-term, sustainable weight loss. But geeeez. If that's their problem, then let them get rid of it.

The way, young padawans is moderation...let them get the idea of junk food as a staple, and then show them how to eat the good stuff in moderation.

People come here saying thank you, and they get attacked and belittled for the WAY they got healthy.

Things like this make me glad I never came when I was just starting out. If I'd gotten attacked like that, I'd have left this place and not lost a pound.

Yes. Moderation. Not "these are poison and I must throw them all out and perform a cleanse."

You entirely missed the point I was making.

I find it hard to deal with the fact that so many people here are so rude. If you don't agree with a person, either don't comment, or say it nicely.

We were all at "that point" once. Where we wanted a change, and didn't know how to get there.

How is it helpful to belittle people for their choices???

Dissenting opinions =/= belittling.

The "don't hurt my feelings" or "don't disagree with me or it's rude" attitude is really a good example of the over sensitivity of an entire generation. Would you like a participation trophy as well?

Do you honestly not recognize how much of a jerk people have been to the OP in this thread? Really? I find that hard to believe. Of course, given that you immediately turned around and criticized their attitude as what is wrong with an entire generation, maybe I do believe it.

People were jerks to the OP because he came in here telling everyone that unclean foods are poison and a bunch of other stupid BS.

anemoneprose

OP said that under the supervision of his/her doctor, nutritionist, and personal trainer, s/he and a buddy made some changes that led to losses of 12 and 14 pounds in two months, and that he/she is pleased about this progress and highly motivated to continue.

many caps edited

wild_wild_life

Do you honestly not recognize how much of a jerk people have been to the OP in this thread? Really? I find that hard to believe. Of course, given that you immediately turned around and criticized their attitude as what is wrong with an entire generation, maybe I do believe it.

People were jerks to the OP because he came in here telling everyone that unclean foods are poison and a bunch of other stupid BS.

Oh, I guess I never would have thought of that as reason for being a jerk. The OP wasn't being offensive, she was just misguided.

It's too easy to act like a jerk online. If this conversation were going on in real life I bet it would be much more civil. I very rarely see people jump all over each other IRL the way they do here. High school excepted.

wild_wild_life

OP said that under the supervision of his/her doctor, nutritionist, and personal trainer, s/he and a buddy made some changes that led to losses of 12 and 14 pounds in two months, and that he/she is pleased about this progress and highly motivated to continue.

many caps edited

Aw, I liked the caps