"Low Carbs, Eat Fat & Fast"

oldmanbythegulf

paperpudding, your comment about 700 or 1300 calories a day is not enough, has gotten me reflecting back to how my calorie intake may have changed in the past 7 years, which is when I, because of a life change, left my wife's kitchen table and started cooking for myself. I still visited and ate with her occasionally and my frig had food she had prepared for me, God bless her sole, she passed 3 1/2 yrs ago. I miss her so much. I, today, after recording calorie intake for the 1st time ever, never thought about it before, could it have been low for awhile, and my belly looks like the 3rd world country starving children, or insulin resistance belly, or has something to do with low daily calories, my belly has not always been this "basketball round", just in the last couple or so years. I need to find high, good calorie foods with very low carbs for this Keto diet perhaps. Any suggestions, what do y'all think.

neanderthin

Jacq_qui wrote: »

Advice on diets shouldn't come from youtube. It is not a medical or scientific resource. Ask your GP/doctor. Ask a registered dietician. Read peer-reviewed papers. If it's not peer-reviewed it's basically some ones opinion. You can absolutely mess with your body to find out if they are right, but also, reading crap on the internet is how we end up with people believing that there are lizards in government and that the Earth is flat.

What are you saying? you mean gov't officials aren't lizards lol. Anyway, you would need to know the full breath of information before your statement could even begin to hold water. Are there scientists and PhD's on you tube, yep there sure are and it's about as scientific as it gets and I suspect that most GP's and dietitians would be getting an education.

Anyway here's one of the many people I follow in regards to nutrition "Ninja Nerd" and there's literally hundreds of educational you tube video's and for just about every subject there is. Are there idiots out there, you bet, but that's on you to figure it out and you do that by gathering information and disseminating that information.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OyQ1cgBw8HA&t=274s

kshama2001

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

I guess this thing I've stumbled into has evolved into "the Keto diet" ?? Things involved in my journey, discouraging and encouraging, and I respect both, are your comments, my PCP and his Nutritionist, even though slightly reluctant, I think will help, my new Chiropractor for my old back will help me with nutrition, my heart doctor even made the comment today that, yes, I can continue with my LDL monthly injections of Repatha while on the Keto diet, I'll continue replaying and taking notes from all the You Tube doctors, tomorrow I pick up my online grocery order at Walmart, sausage, bacon, beef patties, flounder fillets, sardines(1 can for test?), strawberries, blueberries, diced onions bell peppers, pecans, apple cider vinegar, ev olive oil, avocado, eggs organic pasture, cheese, whole milk, sugar free no caffeine drink(aspartame?!?), I'm entering all my meals onto this site, still satisficed with OMAD but guess I need more 1000, 1300 calorie days than 700 calorie days, will improve and evolve with everyone's input such as names of fruits and veg with low carbs and where to get good fats and not bad fats. July-06-23, I'm 74yrs old, male, 5' 10", 190 lbs is now 180, "9 month pregnant" belly at largest place is I'm afraid still 45", good body proportions elsewhere, of course wish I was firmer, I have gym membership and a walking trail 3 blocks from my house but presently don't use them. Happy trails everyone, Steve.

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

paperpudding, your comment about 700 or 1300 calories a day is not enough, has gotten me reflecting back to how my calorie intake may have changed in the past 7 years, which is when I, because of a life change, left my wife's kitchen table and started cooking for myself. I still visited and ate with her occasionally and my frig had food she had prepared for me, God bless her sole, she passed 3 1/2 yrs ago. I miss her so much. I, today, after recording calorie intake for the 1st time ever, never thought about it before, could it have been low for awhile, and my belly looks like the 3rd world country starving children, or insulin resistance belly, or has something to do with low daily calories, my belly has not always been this "basketball round", just in the last couple or so years. I need to find high, good calorie foods with very low carbs for this Keto diet perhaps. Any suggestions, what do y'all think.

You already found them. Just eat at least 1500 calories worth of them. And you don't have to do this in one meal a day.

Consider adding low carb greens like spinach, green beans, or broccoli. They won't do much for you in the calorie department, although you can certainly add butter or oil, but will add fiber and nutrients.

AnnPT77

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

paperpudding, your comment about 700 or 1300 calories a day is not enough, has gotten me reflecting back to how my calorie intake may have changed in the past 7 years, which is when I, because of a life change, left my wife's kitchen table and started cooking for myself. I still visited and ate with her occasionally and my frig had food she had prepared for me, God bless her sole, she passed 3 1/2 yrs ago. I miss her so much. I, today, after recording calorie intake for the 1st time ever, never thought about it before, could it have been low for awhile, and my belly looks like the 3rd world country starving children, or insulin resistance belly, or has something to do with low daily calories, my belly has not always been this "basketball round", just in the last couple or so years. I need to find high, good calorie foods with very low carbs for this Keto diet perhaps. Any suggestions, what do y'all think.

What does your doctor say about this "basketball belly" thing?

Upthread, you wrote "I'm 74yrs old, male, 5' 10", 190 lbs is now 180, "9 month pregnant" belly at largest place is I'm afraid still 45", good body proportions elsewhere". That's really unusual, 45" at that size, seems like, unless you're veryVery short. Yeah, poor posture could contribute . . . but that's still a surprisingly big number.

Has a medical condition been firmly ruled out? Not being a man, I don't know what medical conditions could be relevant for men: I'm more familiar with women's issues.

sollyn23l2

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

paperpudding, your comment about 700 or 1300 calories a day is not enough, has gotten me reflecting back to how my calorie intake may have changed in the past 7 years, which is when I, because of a life change, left my wife's kitchen table and started cooking for myself. I still visited and ate with her occasionally and my frig had food she had prepared for me, God bless her sole, she passed 3 1/2 yrs ago. I miss her so much. I, today, after recording calorie intake for the 1st time ever, never thought about it before, could it have been low for awhile, and my belly looks like the 3rd world country starving children, or insulin resistance belly, or has something to do with low daily calories, my belly has not always been this "basketball round", just in the last couple or so years. I need to find high, good calorie foods with very low carbs for this Keto diet perhaps. Any suggestions, what do y'all think.

That "swollen belly" can be caused by a few different things. Please have your doctor check it out if you haven't. One of the common causes is liver failure, which is ultimately fatal if not treated.

oldmanbythegulf

(Jacq_qui), right now I'll have to come down on (neanderthin)'s side and continue to study the doctors on "you tube". I also search Mayo Clinic, Harvard and others.
(kshama) I've added broccoli, collards, green beans, avocado and others to my kitchen.
(sollyn2312) and (AnnPT77) My "basketball or swollen" belly may just be bad metabolic health like insulin resistance or fatty liver. I'll ask for a liver doctor's exam. A kidney specialist is already scheduled. Tomorrow is my appointment with my PCP and I will, politely but firmly, request blood work for, IDIR LDL particle size, insulin level, cortisol, glucose, and several others. My Diastasis Recti (separation of front outer rectus abdominis muscle), in pregnant women and obese men, doesn't help with my belly. I could do transverse muscle exercise but was hoping to lose some belly size, then if safe do oblique and rectus
abdominis exercise. Now, when I do a crunch, from my breast bone to my naval, my narrow "fat tent" protrudes up 2 inches from between those separated ab muscles.

oldmanbythegulf

26 days on Keto. Started 190 lbs, 45" basketball belly. Today 180 lbs, 44.5" belly. I'm adverging 900 calories daily, less than 20g carbs daily, about 75% fat daily. NO REAL CHANGES YET.

sollyn23l2

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

26 days on Keto. Started 190 lbs, 45" basketball belly. Today 180 lbs, 44.5" belly. I'm adverging 900 calories daily, less than 20g carbs daily, about 75% fat daily. NO REAL CHANGES YET.

You lost 10 lbs and half an inch. That's something! 900 calories seems a bit low.... but hey, if it's working it's wirking.

oldmanbythegulf

KETO NOTES (CKD stage 3A & B and Protein intake)
My Kidney Doctor, 7-31-23 told me: To form (plot) graft and follow declining CKD use formula:
1/creatinine x kg of body weight = the protein limit that kidneys can handle.
Creatinine reading closer to 1 is good and closer to 2 is bad. Therefore, a protein kidney limit of 1 or 1+ (as in 1/1.28 or 1/.70) x kg of body weight = a diet less restrictive of daily grams of protein intake, such as healthy kidneys can handle maybe 75 to 100 or 100+ grams daily and unhealthy kidneys maybe 30 to 60 grams daily.
My equation from a creatinine reading of a 1-19-23 blood test of 1.67 creatinine would be:
1/1.67 (.6) x 81.65kg (180lbs) = 49g daily protein limit that my deficient kidneys can handle.
Therefore, at that creatinine reading, if I lost weight my protein limit decreases, (175lbs=48g) (165lbs=45g).
A nurse even suggested at CKD 3A or 3B, 30g daily protein limit may would be best?

---

NOW, MIX CKD 3A WITH THE KETO DIET: I, now, 8-9-23, am trying to adjust my very easy "satiated" One Meal A Day, because my daily calories are low, maybe change to 2 meals a day, bringing my intake of all nutrients higher, while at the same time, trying to "limit my protein" to 30 or 50g daily to protect my kidneys.

---

NOW, ADD TO THAT, LOSS OF MUSCLE PROBLEM: 10% calorie surplus needed for muscle growth. 1.2 to 1.6g protein needed per kg body weight. 110 to 150g for 200lb person (can be higher but not lower).
Therefore, for exam: 1.2 x 175lb person = 95g protein daily needed to grow muscle.
BUT to "maintain" and not "lose" muscle, can a person manage on a balanced calorie or slightly deficient calorie day? And can 30 to 50g protein daily maintain a body (even if some muscle loss is acceptable) and that body be healthy? And if sacrificing muscle to help kidneys, what about gym strength training, and even the kidney doctor suggesting building muscle through exercise is good for CKD. HOW DO YOU BUILD MUSCLE AND RESTRICT PROTEIN?
Are creatinine supplements bad for someone with stage 3A CKD?

sollyn23l2

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

KETO NOTES (CKD stage 3A & B and Protein intake)
My Kidney Doctor, 7-31-23 told me: To form (plot) graft and follow declining CKD use formula:
1/creatinine x kg of body weight = the protein limit that kidneys can handle.
Creatinine reading closer to 1 is good and closer to 2 is bad. Therefore, a protein kidney limit of 1 or 1+ (as in 1/1.28 or 1/.70) x kg of body weight = a diet less restrictive of daily grams of protein intake, such as healthy kidneys can handle maybe 75 to 100 or 100+ grams daily and unhealthy kidneys maybe 30 to 60 grams daily.
My equation from a creatinine reading of a 1-19-23 blood test of 1.67 creatinine would be:
1/1.67 (.6) x 81.65kg (180lbs) = 49g daily protein limit that my deficient kidneys can handle.
Therefore, at that creatinine reading, if I lost weight my protein limit decreases, (175lbs=48g) (165lbs=45g).
A nurse even suggested at CKD 3A or 3B, 30g daily protein limit may would be best?

---

NOW, MIX CKD 3A WITH THE KETO DIET: I, now, 8-9-23, am trying to adjust my very easy "satiated" One Meal A Day, because my daily calories are low, maybe change to 2 meals a day, bringing my intake of all nutrients higher, while at the same time, trying to "limit my protein" to 30 or 50g daily to protect my kidneys.

---

NOW, ADD TO THAT, LOSS OF MUSCLE PROBLEM: 10% calorie surplus needed for muscle growth. 1.2 to 1.6g protein needed per kg body weight. 110 to 150g for 200lb person (can be higher but not lower).
Therefore, for exam: 1.2 x 175lb person = 95g protein daily needed to grow muscle.
BUT to "maintain" and not "lose" muscle, can a person manage on a balanced calorie or slightly deficient calorie day? And can 30 to 50g protein daily maintain a body (even if some muscle loss is acceptable) and that body be healthy? And if sacrificing muscle to help kidneys, what about gym strength training, and even the kidney doctor suggesting building muscle through exercise is good for CKD. HOW DO YOU BUILD MUSCLE AND RESTRICT PROTEIN?
Are creatinine supplements bad for someone with stage 3A CKD?

Are you looking for someone to tell you to go against your doctor's advice? Your kidneys are failing. Failing kidneys do not do well on a high protein diet. I know it's a scary situation to be in. But you need to listen to your doctor. They are advising you that continuing to eat that much protein will further strain and damage your kidneys. If your doctor is saying no more than 30 to 60 grams a day, then do that.

sollyn23l2

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

KETO NOTES (CKD stage 3A & B and Protein intake)
My Kidney Doctor, 7-31-23 told me: To form (plot) graft and follow declining CKD use formula:
1/creatinine x kg of body weight = the protein limit that kidneys can handle.
Creatinine reading closer to 1 is good and closer to 2 is bad. Therefore, a protein kidney limit of 1 or 1+ (as in 1/1.28 or 1/.70) x kg of body weight = a diet less restrictive of daily grams of protein intake, such as healthy kidneys can handle maybe 75 to 100 or 100+ grams daily and unhealthy kidneys maybe 30 to 60 grams daily.
My equation from a creatinine reading of a 1-19-23 blood test of 1.67 creatinine would be:
1/1.67 (.6) x 81.65kg (180lbs) = 49g daily protein limit that my deficient kidneys can handle.
Therefore, at that creatinine reading, if I lost weight my protein limit decreases, (175lbs=48g) (165lbs=45g).
A nurse even suggested at CKD 3A or 3B, 30g daily protein limit may would be best?

---

NOW, MIX CKD 3A WITH THE KETO DIET: I, now, 8-9-23, am trying to adjust my very easy "satiated" One Meal A Day, because my daily calories are low, maybe change to 2 meals a day, bringing my intake of all nutrients higher, while at the same time, trying to "limit my protein" to 30 or 50g daily to protect my kidneys.

---

NOW, ADD TO THAT, LOSS OF MUSCLE PROBLEM: 10% calorie surplus needed for muscle growth. 1.2 to 1.6g protein needed per kg body weight. 110 to 150g for 200lb person (can be higher but not lower).
Therefore, for exam: 1.2 x 175lb person = 95g protein daily needed to grow muscle.
BUT to "maintain" and not "lose" muscle, can a person manage on a balanced calorie or slightly deficient calorie day? And can 30 to 50g protein daily maintain a body (even if some muscle loss is acceptable) and that body be healthy? And if sacrificing muscle to help kidneys, what about gym strength training, and even the kidney doctor suggesting building muscle through exercise is good for CKD. HOW DO YOU BUILD MUSCLE AND RESTRICT PROTEIN?
Are creatinine supplements bad for someone with stage 3A CKD?

Are you looking for someone to tell you to go against your doctor's advice? Your kidneys are failing. Failing kidneys do not do well on a high protein diet. I know it's a scary situation to be in. But you need to listen to your doctor. They are advising you that continuing to eat that much protein will further strain and damage your kidneys. If your doctor is saying no more than 30 to 60 grams a day, then do that.

And yes, creatine supplements, when your doctor has specifically advised you to limit creatine would be a really bad idea.

DFW_Tom

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

Are you looking for someone to tell you to go against your doctor's advice? Your kidneys are failing. Failing kidneys do not do well on a high protein diet. I know it's a scary situation to be in. But you need to listen to your doctor. They are advising you that continuing to eat that much protein will further strain and damage your kidneys. If your doctor is saying no more than 30 to 60 grams a day, then do that.

And yes, creatine supplements, when your doctor has specifically advised you to limit creatine would be a really bad idea.

I completely agree with @sollyn23l2. Any level of Chronic Kidney Disease is serious stuff. You need to let your PCP and Nephrologist know exactly how you have been eating. Forget about experimenting with Keto or any other way of eating unless your doctors have explicitly told you that is what you need to be doing to keep you from end-stage renal disease (ESRD). Parsing out a little bit of information at a time is detrimental to your health. So is asking advise from strangers on an internet forum, or listening to anyone on YouTube, or even a Nutritionist who may or may not know much about nutrition for someone with kidney disease.

You really need to be completely forthcoming with your medical team. Much more than you were with us in your original post:

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

I'm focusing in on "low carbs, eat fat & fast". My Doctors & my 110 lb, 20 yr old Nutritionist does not seem to be interested??? Is it all You Tube hype just to get clicks???

I can't believe that anyone with diagnosed CKD would even consider creatine supplements.

PeachHibiscus

If I recall correctly, you wanted to lose weight because you have a basketball belly. CKD can cause edema in the abdomen, legs, and feet. Has your doctor ruled out abdominal edema from CKD in your case?

You can obviously do as you like but if this were me, or one of my family members, I'd want to speak with a renal dietitian and would follow their instructions.

oldmanbythegulf

Thanks, I receive your comments positively in my evolving understanding of my health and diet. May we all be aware of our health choices.

ninerbuff

Hiatial hernia's are also something I've dealt with when men have round bellies as well. I usually notice it when I have them do direct ab work and you can see it portrude when they contract.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

oldmanbythegulf

ninerbuff, thanks. The website: https://www.strength-space.com/diastasis-recti-abdominal-exercise/ suggest that I lose my belly with diet first (I'm trying Keto), then do my "diastasis recti" ab exercises. Although, along with most upper and lower body exercises, I am careful and do low weight "ab rotator" and, don't know the name, I kneel at the cable machine and do a crunch??? I presently am not doing any exercises where my "diastasis recti tent" protrudes up between my two separated abdominal recti muscles. ninerbuff, your two studies, Kinesiology and Nutrition seem to relate to my two problems, I'm open to any suggestions, thanks.

oldmanbythegulf

10-14-2023 I'm a 75 yr old man started Keto 3.5 months ago, 190 to 170 lbs, basket ball belly 45" to 43", (still basket ball up high), belt area 40" to 36.5". Still trying to accumulate several blood work Lab copies from several doctors!!!??? Can not, no matter how hard I try can't get any doctor to order a HOMA-IR insulin resistance blood test. It's as if they are terrified of it?? Three Primary Care Physicians since Jan 1st, still looking for one that hasn't been educated by the food and drug industries.

AnnPT77

oldmanbythegulf wrote: »

10-14-2023 I'm a 75 yr old man started Keto 3.5 months ago, 190 to 170 lbs, basket ball belly 45" to 43", (still basket ball up high), belt area 40" to 36.5". Still trying to accumulate several blood work Lab copies from several doctors!!!??? Can not, no matter how hard I try can't get any doctor to order a HOMA-IR insulin resistance blood test. It's as if they are terrified of it?? Three Primary Care Physicians since Jan 1st, still looking for one that hasn't been educated by the food and drug industries.

I'm glad to hear that you're seeing some success!

Twenty pounds in 3.5 months (12-ish weeks) is perhaps a little aggressive but not IMO maybe not injuriously fast for a healthy person of your size. That implies an average calorie deficit of about 833 calories per day.

I hope you've been eating more like 1500 calories on average, and simply reaching that deficit with activity. I don't recall how tall you are - if you even said - but if average height we'd expect a sedentary guy your age/weight to need maybe something around 2000 calories daily to maintain weight.

If that's your case, 833 calories of deficit is eating more like 1100-1200, which may make it difficult to get truly adequate nutrition, which is especially important when losing weight, aging, or with health conditions such as those you've mentioned.

What did you decide about protein intake . . . and where are you with the possibility/diagnosis of kidney disease?

Part of my concern here is that with health conditions, your body is under a lot of stress. Calorie deficit is a stress, too - even if the outcomes will be positive long term. I don't know about you, but I've found that my body at my age (67) is less resilient to cumulative stress - i.e., there are worse health and well-being risks from additive stressors - than was the case when I was 20-something. I've seen others here say likewise. That makes weight loss, exercise, and nutrition a bit of a balancing act, IME.

If you feel like you have Diastasis Recti, have any of your doctors referred you for physical therapy for that? If not, that could be helpful.

I can't speak to your doctors' unwillingness to write for a HOMA-IR test. Have they done other tests for IR, or told you why they think that's unnecessary? Has have you had OGTT, HbA1c tests? Some sources now recommend HbA1c and/or HOMA-IR for age 45+ or so, just as a baseline. (I've never had either, but I have and had zero signs of IR - yes, I used to be obese, but it wasn't mysterious, in my case. I was fortunate: The other metabolic risk factors I had disappeared with weight loss.)

I'm glad to hear that you're hanging in there, and making some progress. I get that you might like it all to be faster - both the weight loss and the medical situations - but progress is a good thing.

Wishing you more of it as time goes on!

oldmanbythegulf

(To ANNpt77) Thanks for your knowledge and time in the above response. My daily calories are all over the place, 500 to 2000, most are 800 to 1500, 1000 to 1200 I guess. My Keto diet really controls my apatite to 2 meals per day or one meal per day. I plan on staying with it 6 to 12 more months then re-evaluating it. No real exercise to mention. I'm 5' 9". Perhaps my stage 3b CKD dictates about 50 g of protein per day, I many days do 50 to 90g. Of course on Keto I mostly hit about 20g of carbs but also 50g or so. You mention body stress, if you meant cortisol, which increases insulin, extending my possible IR, that's bad. Doctors (not interested in preventative health) and their schools, drugs, food industries being in bed together for the last 50 years, sometimes that begins to make sense. Thanks for the comment, "although it may seem slow, any progress is a good thing".

Corina1143

Just a few thoughts--
Are you most interested in your WEIGHT? Oŕ your HEALTH?

Why no exercise? I'm guessing it has to do with strength and stamina. Everyone starts somewhere. 25 or so years ago, I started with 300 steps a day. Yes, I said 300. Why not start now? Start where you are.

Bacon and sausage? Check a few cancer sites. Among the first few foods they suggest giving up for your good health are cured meats, meats with nitrates and nitrites.

Bacon? Salt? Is that good for kidney health?

How's your sleep? Important for overall health.

Vitamins? If you don't eat a lot of meat, are you low on B12? What about D?

Your effort to lose weight is awesome. It probably took you a while to get overweight, it may take a while to get to a normal weight. If there was a magic potion, someone would have already found it. Weight loss seems to take long-term dedication. I applaud your efforts. Just don't forget to take a little time to enjoy your life along your journey.