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Time-Restricted Eating - Early Shift
chris_in_cal
Posts: 2,539 Member
in Debate Club
Seems 99% of IF people say the are Late Shift TRE.
I have yet to see a poster who is trying TRE, likes it, is going to continue on with it, and follows an early shift.
The 99% will respond with "I would but," "I just can't," "My astrologer told me," etc.
Where are my happy, successful, early shift TRE people?
I have yet to see a poster who is trying TRE, likes it, is going to continue on with it, and follows an early shift.
The 99% will respond with "I would but," "I just can't," "My astrologer told me," etc.
Where are my happy, successful, early shift TRE people?
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Replies
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My Dad basically does that. He often eats dinner at, say, 4, and then doesn't eat again till 7 or 8 am. I think it's just kind of the way he likes to eat.1
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »He often eats dinner at, say, 4, and then doesn't eat again till 7 or 8 am.
Thanks.
The million dollar question is, is he fit, no metabolic syndrome, healthy weight, sleeps well, AND generally happy?
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I am here! I stop eating between 3:30 and 4pm and start between 9 and 10am. I do a fasted workout around 4:30am.3
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chris_in_cal wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »He often eats dinner at, say, 4, and then doesn't eat again till 7 or 8 am.
Thanks.
The million dollar question is, is he fit, no metabolic syndrome, healthy weight, sleeps well, AND generally happy?
Yes, all of the above. Except he doesn't sleep as much as he'd like. But that's unrelated to how he eats.0 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »But that's unrelated to how he eats.
Sorry your father isn't sleeping well.
I listened to Dr. Donn Posner yesterday on the 10% Happier podcast. He's an Adjunct Clinical Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine, studying sleep. It's a good listen.
While not giving clinical advice he was speaking in generalities around sleep. Speaking about the eating window and the sleeping window is what got me to post this thread.
My main take away from him: a lot of people sleep pretty well, and are generally with good energy....and they shouldn't mess with a good thing.... whether early bird, night owl, 9 hour sleep or 6 hours sleep.
But some people struggle and their are tips to be better rested.
Lastly, some chronic suffers need clinical help.1 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »But that's unrelated to how he eats.
Sorry your father isn't sleeping well.
I listened to Dr. Donn Posner yesterday on the 10% Happier podcast. He's an Adjunct Clinical Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine, studying sleep. It's a good listen.
While not giving clinical advice he was speaking in generalities around sleep. Speaking about the eating window and the sleeping window is what got me to post this thread.
My main take away from him: a lot of people sleep pretty well, and are generally with good energy....and they shouldn't mess with a good thing.... whether early bird, night owl, 9 hour sleep or 6 hours sleep.
But some people struggle and their are tips to be better rested.
Lastly, some chronic suffers need clinical help.
Interesting. I'll have to check it out.0 -
I’ve found I sleep my best eating early in day and fasting through the evening -> night. Makes me also get up early because I’m looking forward to breakfast.
The eating window I feel best on is 8-4.3 -
ebonyroche wrote: »I am here! I stop eating between 3:30 and 4pm and start between 9 and 10am. I do a fasted workout around 4:30am.
Wow, you are a BOSS... 4:30 a.m. workouts.
We can shift our eating window, and our sleeping window, you've done both!1 -
I hope more people respond, this is really intriguing. Previously if I fasted too early I struggled with sleep, let’s say I was doing 5/2 at the time where I’d allow a 400 cal “meal”. I think that window was sometime between 12-5pm. Now I’m omad and will eat that meal anytime between 3-8pm. I still struggle sleeping but I don’t think it’s from IF anymore.1
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I don’t IF, but I usually skip dinner at least 2 nights a week, sometimes more. If nothing sounds good and I’m not physically hungry, I just don’t bother. That makes my last meal by 2pm, but usually earlier and breakfast around 8. I notice no difference in my sleep either way. I’ve eaten this way for years and find it an easy and natural way to schedule my eating.0
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The problem is that it's challenging to fast through the evening if you're the main family cook. When I get a chance to have an evening on my own I like to eat early.2
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chris_in_cal wrote: »Seems 99% of IF people say the are Late Shift TRE.
I have yet to see a poster who is trying TRE, likes it, is going to continue on with it, and follows an early shift.
The 99% will respond with "I would but," "I just can't," "My astrologer told me," etc.
Where are my happy, successful, early shift TRE people?
I am not sure what you mean by "late shift" and "early shift". My eating preference is to stop eating about 6-7:30PM and not eat again until around 1PM the next day. That works for me. I know of people who have their eating window close in the morning hours or early afternoon, then don't eat again until the next morning. My thought is it has to do with personal preference and lifestyle. While I have heard there is a possible slight benefit to the eating window being in the morning rather than later in the day, as far as I know it was only one study. Until it is replicated at least once more, preferably more than once, I will stick with saying follow the pattern that fits for you personally.0 -
rileysowner wrote: »I am not sure what you mean by "late shift" and "early shift". My eating preference is to stop eating about 6-7:30PM and not eat again until around 1PM the next day.
It's a term of art.....waiting until 1:00 p.m. to eat is definitely the late shift.
I agree preference for a choice of eating window matters.0 -
I stop eating after dinner. We eat around 4 or 5 in the evening. I resume calorie consumption the next day in the am after about 14 hr fast.. I don’t eat food for a few hours later but technically my fast ends when I drink my am coffee as it contains calories.. I’ve been doing this for many yrs now. Having dinner early and closing the kitchen has allowed me to stop night time snacking. I’ve always been the type to skip breakfast or eat later in the day but now my eating window is smaller. Doctor recommended 👍0
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As a night owl, I live my life on the late shift lol. This includes IF (window is 4 pm to 10 pm).
I have gotten flack over the years for my preferred sleep routine, which is to go to bed 4-6 am and wake up between 11-2. I forced myself to be an early bird when my kids were young but anytime I could take a break from that I slipped back into old habits without effort. Since my kids were grown I stopped trying to be the early bird.
So a dr once said that as long as you're getting enough sleep, it doesn't matter when you do your sleeping. It's okay to listen to your body.
I kind of think IF is the same... doesn't matter when your window is, as long as you're sticking to it.0 -
positivelysimful wrote: »So a dr once said that as long as you're getting enough sleep, it doesn't matter when you do your sleeping. It's okay to listen to your body.
I listened to a Sleep Professor recently and he was saying the same thing. The light and dark are important...but most people get the sleep they need, regardless of their own schedule.0 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »positivelysimful wrote: »So a dr once said that as long as you're getting enough sleep, it doesn't matter when you do your sleeping. It's okay to listen to your body.
I listened to a Sleep Professor recently and he was saying the same thing. The light and dark are important...but most people get the sleep they need, regardless of their own schedule.
True about the light & dark! I had concerns about that too but seems you only need about 10-20 minutes of that daylight on first awakening, and I wake up early enough to get that. And there are black-out curtains, sleep masks, etc. to darken the room. Those hormonal/body chemical cycles are so important, people on like 3rd shift who aren't careful can suffer from a whole host of problems, especially if they're fighting their body's natural day/night cycle.
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Not that it should matter, but I am 52yrs. hypothyroid, 5'1" and 108#
I have a pre-workout around 5am,
workout 6-7am
an apple around 8:30am
I'm experimenting with a 300 cal protein centered meal at 10 am
I have another balanced meal at 1pm
I'm experimenting with a 150cal protein centered 4pm meal
and we eat a dinner at 6:30-7pm.
Typically just water 7pm - 8:30am. SO...that's about 12-13 hours.
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I just don’t feel hunger until about 4pm, and usually eat at about 6pm, done by 8pm. It used to be unusual, but now IF/OMAD is trendy, people ‘admire’ my ‘discipline’ (instead of nagging me to eat).
When I am on a skiing holiday and need the energy, I do eat 3-square (eating breakfast is still a real chore!): on returning to normal life it takes me a few days to reset and I just feel hungry ALL day - so personally I couldn’t/wouldn’t swap to ‘early shift’.
(Edit to add: I drink coffee with a splash of milk, no sugar, during the day - some would consider the milk as ‘breaking’ my ‘fast’.)0 -
Early shift here! The last two nights I finished dinner by 5:30. I like to wake up early and be in bed early so this works for me. I'll eat breakfast around 9:30-10am. When I don't IF, my snacking is out of control.0
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OllyBooBoo wrote: »Early shift here! The last two nights I finished dinner by 5:30. I like to wake up early and be in bed early so this works for me. I'll eat breakfast around 9:30-10am. When I don't IF, my snacking is out of control.
How far are you from maintenance on your weight goals? Also, how is your sleeping, do you struggle with it, or are you mostly well rested?0 -
"This meta-analysis evaluated whether weight loss caused by early time-restricted eating could promote fat mass loss while preserving fat-free mass, thereby leading to improvements in inflammation and metabolic health."
"Early time-restricted eating, especially 16:08 strategy, appears to be an effective strategy to decrease body weight, fat mass, abdominal obesity and inflammation, but less likely to decrease fat-free mass."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871402124000134?via=ihub
I'm not primed to defend, critique, or explain this paper; nor do I have access to the full text beyond the summary at that link. I simply ran across the summary, thought of this thread, and felt it was on-topic enough to perhaps interest some who participated in the thread who might not have seen it.
I have no dog in this fight, not even a tiny one. (TRE sounds unpleasant to me, as an unashamed hedonist
).
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"Early time-restricted eating, especially 16:08 strategy, appears to be an effective strategy to decrease body weight, fat mass, abdominal obesity and inflammation, but less likely to decrease fat-free mass."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871402124000134?via=ihub
Yeah, this is well documented and I've mentioned that a few time previously, ad nauseum I suspect.
What's interesting is that short term fasting, within 24-48 hours is basically a survival mechanism that was adapted during our evolutionary past. Short term fasting actually increases metabolism by increasing our norepinephrine which promotes fat burning and energy usage which by default preserves lean fat mass. Basically a physiological response that helped optimize the body's energy usage during times of food scarcity and ensuring there is enough energy for crucial survival tasks. IF is also good and I would say crucial for our microbiome as well.
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chris_in_cal wrote: »rileysowner wrote: »I am not sure what you mean by "late shift" and "early shift". My eating preference is to stop eating about 6-7:30PM and not eat again until around 1PM the next day.
It's a term of art.....waiting until 1:00 p.m. to eat is definitely the late shift.
I agree preference for a choice of eating window matters.
I would call that an early shift, or maybe I'm not interpreting the definition properly. Basically the fasting is done by skipping breakfast. That increases his total time in IF to around an 18:6 protocal, which in RCT's results in the most benefit as well. imo0 -
neanderthin wrote: »"Early time-restricted eating, especially 16:08 strategy, appears to be an effective strategy to decrease body weight, fat mass, abdominal obesity and inflammation, but less likely to decrease fat-free mass."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871402124000134?via=ihub
Yeah, this is well documented and I've mentioned that a few time previously, ad nauseum I suspect.
What's interesting is that short term fasting, within 24-48 hours is basically a survival mechanism that was adapted during our evolutionary past. Short term fasting actually increases metabolism by increasing our norepinephrine which promotes fat burning and energy usage which by default preserves lean fat mass. Basically a physiological response that helped optimize the body's energy usage during times of food scarcity and ensuring there is enough energy for crucial survival tasks. IF is also good and I would say crucial for our microbiome as well.
over the years, various eating approaches have been strongly advocated, and particularly to 'not skip breakfast and/or lunch or meals' for a variety of stated reasons like better mental performance post-breakfast or to prevent ravenous eating/bingeing later in the day.
So it, again, is a bit of mental whiplash to see opposite recommendations, and beyond to have a significant number of medical providers push 1 direction versus the other.
As I read and try to sort the info, it is hard just as a non-medical or science professional... it is difficult to discern anymore what truly is a better/best... since recommendations are so opposite in approach.
For me personally, I would be a sleep nightowl, and natural hunger does not appear until late afternoon... so I would be late shift.
Beyond that, my fav meals out at restaurants/feasts are more than the body needs in a whole day, so whatever approach I use, i need to understand how much is enough and stop at that.
My additional concern is how a quantity of carbs in a single meal evokes particular hormone/chemical responses, so I prefer not to have too much in a particular meal which necessitates shift the rest of the calories into fats and proteins, or dividing overall/carb amounts into more than 1 eating event.
Beyond that, I wish there were definitive on impact of the macros in single eating events or across days or???
And secondarily, i suppose, is to consider emotional satisfaction with the actual eating approach...
Combined for me, eat enough, not too much, foods that nourish my body, that I also enjoy. Low carb seems to be better physically and emotionally with food/carbs limited and spread across the day - so don't do TRF at this time.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »or maybe I'm not interpreting the definition properly.
Communication can be tricky.
My observations and the question I was trying to pose are: Nearly everyone I've read here on MFP who writes about their experiments with Time-Restricted Eating says something like -
"I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours. Then I eat starting later in my day, until before going to bed again for the night."
The semantics of naming it "early shift" or "late shift" aren't important (and can be confusing).
I've observed that most TRE people who responded concurred that they practice this technique: "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours."
I was curious about others who might "Wake up from a night's sleep and eat, and then continue to eat for a few hours, and stop eating a much longer time before they go to bed."
The people practicing TRE here on MFP seem to come mostly from just one group. Some of that group wrote that the timing is irrelevant. When I observe a majority going in one direction, I become curious: Why in that direction and not the other? An answer of "stop thinking about that, it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant." doesn't make me less curious.
This one study's hypothesis is the same thing that makes me curious. Is there, in fact, any difference? I still don't know. It's just one study, but now, when someone writes, "Stop thinking about that; it doesn't matter," I'm buoyed by the fact that some researchers are wondering the same thing I am.0 -
What I see is you are in the vast majority of people here on MFP who are trying this.Adventurista wrote: »... natural hunger does not appear until late afternoon... so I would be late shift.0 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »or maybe I'm not interpreting the definition properly.
Communication can be tricky.
My observations and the question I was trying to pose are: Nearly everyone I've read here on MFP who writes about their experiments with Time-Restricted Eating says something like -
"I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours. Then I eat starting later in my day, until before going to bed again for the night."
The semantics of naming it "early shift" or "late shift" aren't important (and can be confusing).
I've observed that most TRE people who responded concurred that they practice this technique: "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours."
I was curious about others who might "Wake up from a night's sleep and eat, and then continue to eat for a few hours, and stop eating a much longer time before they go to bed."
The people practicing TRE here on MFP seem to come mostly from just one group. Some of that group wrote that the timing is irrelevant. When I observe a majority going in one direction, I become curious: Why in that direction and not the other? An answer of "stop thinking about that, it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant." doesn't make me less curious.
This one study's hypothesis is the same thing that makes me curious. Is there, in fact, any difference? I still don't know. It's just one study, but now, when someone writes, "Stop thinking about that; it doesn't matter," I'm buoyed by the fact that some researchers are wondering the same thing I am.
I don't know if I said it in an earlier post, but I eat at the end of the day because I find it difficult to sleep with an empty stomach. There are times I fast more than 24 hours, and if I have fasted from the previous evening by the time I get to bed time, I usually don't feel hungry any more so I sleep just fine.0 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »or maybe I'm not interpreting the definition properly.
Communication can be tricky.
My observations and the question I was trying to pose are: Nearly everyone I've read here on MFP who writes about their experiments with Time-Restricted Eating says something like -
"I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours. Then I eat starting later in my day, until before going to bed again for the night."
The semantics of naming it "early shift" or "late shift" aren't important (and can be confusing).
I've observed that most TRE people who responded concurred that they practice this technique: "I wake up from a night's sleep and do not eat for several hours."
I was curious about others who might "Wake up from a night's sleep and eat, and then continue to eat for a few hours, and stop eating a much longer time before they go to bed."
The people practicing TRE here on MFP seem to come mostly from just one group. Some of that group wrote that the timing is irrelevant. When I observe a majority going in one direction, I become curious: Why in that direction and not the other? An answer of "stop thinking about that, it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant." doesn't make me less curious.
This one study's hypothesis is the same thing that makes me curious. Is there, in fact, any difference? I still don't know. It's just one study, but now, when someone writes, "Stop thinking about that; it doesn't matter," I'm buoyed by the fact that some researchers are wondering the same thing I am.
Yes, kinda, but no, kinda. It's a meta-analysis, an analysis of multiple studies of a similar thing, not just a single study. There are pros and cons, but potentially more persuasive than a single study.0 -
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