Made the Mistake of Bringing up Intermittent Fasting...
Replies
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If she's eating 2000 calories a day she isn't losing in a necessarily "unsafe" way. It a large enough amount to assure nutritional diversity. It might be crap it might not be. Just stop judging other people and get on with your thing.
I personally won't do IF or Shakes but, nothing intrinsically wrong with either - it depends on a lot of factors like long term goals, lifestyle management, fitness goals, LBM maintenance. In one I'd likely binge, the other is expensive but either can create a calorie deficit.
My personal focus is long term fitness. Can either fit this? Sometimes....
I guess you missed the part where she said she was losing 3 pounds a week. I'll stop being such a judgemental person for you though, I guess.
2 lbs a week is not some magical limit. The 3 lbs a week will slow down. You don't suddenly become sick because you passed the magic number 2. It depends on long term/short and totals. When I started I lost 5 lbs in one week initially and I still have weeks where the scale can register 3-4 lbs difference - not all is true weight loss.
She's eating 2000 cals under supervision. Not 600. Her deficit is likely high but not extreme.
I think your're missing the point. I doubt that she is actually losing 3 pounds a week on 2000 calories a day. If that was the case, her TDEE is around 3500 calories. This is not a morbidly obese lady (she has a similar height/weight profile to me). So either
A) She is not tracking her calories and is eating far less then 2000 calories a day (probably like 500-800calories).
She lied and is not losing 3 pounds a week.
Ah, well. If she lost 30 lbs over 2.5 to 3 months that's ... 2.5 to 3 pounds a week (not that far from 3, so is she lying or not?) - not impossible nor extreme. So she says 2000 and you guess 500-800. Hmmm - how would you know?
I guess my logic wasn't clear enough before.
She claims she is eating 2000 calories a day, and losing 3 pounds a week eating 2000 calories a day (those are her number exactly, not my guessing.) If you are losing 3 pounds a week, you are at a weekly deficit of 10500 calories, which is an average daily deficit of 1500 calories a day. If she is eating 2000 calories a day and losing 3 pounds a week, then she her TDEE is 3500. This is very unlikely - she is not morbidly obese and she is not an athlete. So either,
A) She is not tracking her calories accurately and she is eating far below her TDEE She is eating 2000 calories a day and is lying about her weight loss
I know it seems dumb to argue about this with you but I just want to get my point across to you.0 -
face palm thru my face0
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Honestly, I would just shake it off and try to ignore what she said. If the next time you see her she brings it back up, just tell her you are losing weight -YOUR- way. That you appreciate the tips and help, but that you have it figured out for your individual needs. As long as you are doing IF in a healthy way then don't worry about what she says.
Then, if she keeps pushing just walk away anything she brings it up. Eventually she will get the idea.0 -
Everyone has an opinion when it comes to your weight loss. 2 things,1 don't talk to people about your plans and 2 who gives a rats *kitten* what they have to say. Worry about what you need to do and that's that.
Not everybody is going to agree with what you are doing and you can bet as sure as hell is hot that they are going to have an opinion on the matter.
I fast intermittently I love it and it works for me, do I care about what people think about it or have to say about it? Nope, I look at myself in the mirror every morning and see how great I am looking and that's all I need.0 -
If she's eating 2000 calories a day she isn't losing in a necessarily "unsafe" way. It a large enough amount to assure nutritional diversity. It might be crap it might not be. Just stop judging other people and get on with your thing.
I personally won't do IF or Shakes but, nothing intrinsically wrong with either - it depends on a lot of factors like long term goals, lifestyle management, fitness goals, LBM maintenance. In one I'd likely binge, the other is expensive but either can create a calorie deficit.
My personal focus is long term fitness. Can either fit this? Sometimes....
I guess you missed the part where she said she was losing 3 pounds a week. I'll stop being such a judgemental person for you though, I guess.
2 lbs a week is not some magical limit. The 3 lbs a week will slow down. You don't suddenly become sick because you passed the magic number 2. It depends on long term/short and totals. When I started I lost 5 lbs in one week initially and I still have weeks where the scale can register 3-4 lbs difference - not all is true weight loss.
She's eating 2000 cals under supervision. Not 600. Her deficit is likely high but not extreme.
I think your're missing the point. I doubt that she is actually losing 3 pounds a week on 2000 calories a day. If that was the case, her TDEE is around 3500 calories. This is not a morbidly obese lady (she has a similar height/weight profile to me). So either
A) She is not tracking her calories and is eating far less then 2000 calories a day (probably like 500-800calories). She lied and is not losing 3 pounds a week.
Ah, well. If she lost 30 lbs over 2.5 to 3 months that's ... 2.5 to 3 pounds a week (not that far from 3, so is she lying or not?) - not impossible nor extreme. So she says 2000 and you guess 500-800. Hmmm - how would you know?
I guess my logic wasn't clear enough before.
She claims she is eating 2000 calories a day, and losing 3 pounds a week eating 2000 calories a day (those are her number exactly, not my guessing.) If you are losing 3 pounds a week, you are at a weekly deficit of 10500 calories, which is an average daily deficit of 1500 calories a day. If she is eating 2000 calories a day and losing 3 pounds a week, then she her TDEE is 3500. This is very unlikely - she is not morbidly obese and she is not an athlete. So either,
A) She is not tracking her calories accurately and she is eating far below her TDEE She is eating 2000 calories a day and is lying about her weight loss
I know it seems dumb to argue about this with you but I just want to get my point across to you.
So... Is she lying?
If she's lying and didn't lose 3 lbs then she isn't eating that far below her TDEE. Figure out your story. If she lost only 2 lbs (and the rest is exaggerations) for someone overweight it isn't the end of the world.
The point is - whatever method you chose - IF or shekels or shakes, how does it fit into a long term change and fitness? Either or neither can.
Please, continue to discuss, I'm not arguing to be difficult. I'll be the first to pee on stupid shake diets as recommendations in the forums BUT my point is that it doesn't necessarily lead to a bad result or illness. It depends a lot more on the lifestyle framework. The same can be said about IF...0 -
Life lesson: Everyone is not going to agree with you about everything. And you are not going to agree with them. If you feel sure that your colleague's information is inaccurate and inapplicable to you, ignore it.0
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Did you simply make a statement about your own methods or did you first criticize hers? Seems an odd reaction and conversation if it's the former.0
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Did you simply make a statement about your own methods or did you first criticize hers? Seems an odd reaction and conversation if it's the former.
All I said was "I'm starting intermittent fasting tomorrow and I'm nervous but also excited".
Yes, you are right, it is an odd reaction.0 -
... And let's say your friend is lying or not sure about her eating but did lose those 30 lbs over summer - if she's overweight and very active (but not an athlete, like you say) it's not impossible to have a BMR of 1700 and an activity level of 1.75 which would place her at about 3K TDEE. Her actual eating would be at about 1500 cals (assuming 3 months for the loss and effective 3500 per lb and no water weight loss....) This is below the 2000 she reports but not necessarily a dangerous level for 3 months - certainly not one where nutrition can not be met.
Yet you assume that she's eating as low as 500 cals (as the story evolved).
Now, you are starting IFing. How far is your average daily from that 1500 figure? About 500?
Is IF a lifestyle change for you or are you using it to transition to something else?
Edit: missing not0 -
I'm curious what shakes she is eating if she can reach 2k on them. (they might do my training days when i cant eat enough in the time frame, or havent prepped!)
But its probably more like a pryamid scheme more than anything, if its the 'shakes' im thinking about.
Do your own thing, and keep it up.
And dont discuss weight loss or fitness with real friends unless they ask, or mention 'oh you look great did you lose weight', or they happen to do the activities with you.
I brought up going to the gym once, when i wasnt asked, and got told 'do you still go there, have you not given that fad up yet?' my response 'I've been going there for years, its hardly a fad I enjoy it'. She and i never brought it up in conversation again, hopefully it will be the same with you and your friend, never mention the 'd' word!0 -
... And let's say your friend is lying or not sure about her eating but did lose those 30 lbs over summer - if she's overweight and very active (but not an athlete, like you say) it's not impossible to have a BMR of 1700 and an activity level of 1.75 which would place her at about 3K TDEE. Her actual eating would be at about 1500 cals (assuming 3 months for the loss and effective 3500 per lb and no water weight loss....) This is below the 2000 she reports but not necessarily a dangerous level for 3 months - certainly not one where nutrition can not be met.
Yet you assume that she's eating as low as 500 cals (as the story evolved).
Now, you are starting IFing. How far is your average daily from that 1500 figure? About 500?
Is IF a lifestyle change for you or are you using it to transition to something else?
Edit: missing not
So I'm being criticized for making assumptions about my friend, but you get to make assumptions about me? I guess if that makes sense in your world, go for it.
Since you didn't seem to understand my point the first time, I made it clear to you that there were several possible options for what was going on with her, one of which included that she might be eating very low calories. And the likelihood of a lightly active, moderately overweight female having a TDEE of 3k is slim.
If you knew anything about IF you would know that weekly averages are what matter the most. I have said 0 things about what my IF plans are. I haven't even started it yet.0 -
... And let's say your friend is lying or not sure about her eating but did lose those 30 lbs over summer - if she's overweight and very active (but not an athlete, like you say) it's not impossible to have a BMR of 1700 and an activity level of 1.75 which would place her at about 3K TDEE. Her actual eating would be at about 1500 cals (assuming 3 months for the loss and effective 3500 per lb and no water weight loss....) This is below the 2000 she reports but not necessarily a dangerous level for 3 months - certainly not one where nutrition can not be met.
Yet you assume that she's eating as low as 500 cals (as the story evolved).
Now, you are starting IFing. How far is your average daily from that 1500 figure? About 500?
Is IF a lifestyle change for you or are you using it to transition to something else?
Edit: missing not
So I'm being criticized for making assumptions about my friend, but you get to make assumptions about me? I guess if that makes sense in your world, go for it.
Since you didn't seem to understand my point the first time, I made it clear to you that there were several possible options for what was going on with her, one of which included that she might be eating very low calories. And the likelihood of a lightly active, moderately overweight female having a TDEE of 3k is slim.
If you knew anything about IF you would know that weekly averages are what matter the most. I have said 0 things about what my IF plans are. I haven't even started it yet.
What assumption am I making about you? The IF questions are just questions.
RE: your friend - there are different possible options - she was low cal'ing, she lost less than she says (happens), she's active. If you guys are students, lightly active is not your activity level, unless we live in very different worlds, like you say - my daughter, college student, slightly overweight - has a TDEE of about that - given that she bikes and walks to classes every day. So it isn't that unlikely, I have an example at home...
And neither as criticism or old fart crankiness I am curious: what are your IF plans? (If you don't mind my asking, I promise I won't be criticising them.) What are your long term fitness goals?0 -
... And let's say your friend is lying or not sure about her eating but did lose those 30 lbs over summer - if she's overweight and very active (but not an athlete, like you say) it's not impossible to have a BMR of 1700 and an activity level of 1.75 which would place her at about 3K TDEE. Her actual eating would be at about 1500 cals (assuming 3 months for the loss and effective 3500 per lb and no water weight loss....) This is below the 2000 she reports but not necessarily a dangerous level for 3 months - certainly not one where nutrition can not be met.
Yet you assume that she's eating as low as 500 cals (as the story evolved).
Now, you are starting IFing. How far is your average daily from that 1500 figure? About 500?
Is IF a lifestyle change for you or are you using it to transition to something else?
Edit: missing not
So I'm being criticized for making assumptions about my friend, but you get to make assumptions about me? I guess if that makes sense in your world, go for it.
Since you didn't seem to understand my point the first time, I made it clear to you that there were several possible options for what was going on with her, one of which included that she might be eating very low calories. And the likelihood of a lightly active, moderately overweight female having a TDEE of 3k is slim.
If you knew anything about IF you would know that weekly averages are what matter the most. I have said 0 things about what my IF plans are. I haven't even started it yet.
Lesson in life. If you put something negative out there, you'll get negative reactions. The details of what your friend puts in her mouth, how fast fat comes off her body, or her TDEE do not matter.
What does matter is your attitude. Some folks are telling you it's none of your business. You're fighting back. You don't want to hear it.
In the bigger picture, your attitude will have a tremendous effect on your life, not just your diet.
Compliment someone, and you'll get positive reactions.
Shred someone, and you'll get negative ones.
Hard to stay consistent on a diet with a negative attitude.
*ducking flames*0 -
Eat a balanced diet, set a reasonable calorie and macros goal, strength train, IF if it works for you . . . and for the love of all that is right and holy in this world, never, NEVER, discuss your diet and fitness plan with IRL friends . . .
^^0 -
Sounds like your girlfriend has an evil touch of narcissism. She does not sound like the healthiest person to be around. As an RN, I see conflict of interest ALL the time in the so-called fitness, healthcare and medical industry.
I am currently working on my personal training certification and some of the things that are advocated do not work for me currently even though when I was bodybuilding as a hobby they did (I was twenty years younger).
My point being, I agree with you on the business side of "healthcare" and you have to definitely check things out for yourself. Yet, finding a knowledgeable medical personnel (does not have to be an RD or nutritionist and there are some that are certified) is not a bad idea. The more mentors you have that have achieved what you desire, the less mistakes you have to make on your journey.
Point number 2: Is your "friend" truly a friend or just an emotional vampire that is feeding off of you?
Great job on the lost poundage!!!0 -
It's easy...just say to your friend congrats on your weight lose, but I don't like the idea of shakes. I am going to try IF (I personally wouldn't) to try it out. Cause to be frank unless she plans on drinking shakes for the rest of her life, and you plan on living with IF you both have to get to a point where you are eating reasonable calories throughout your day to continue to lose weight and/or maintain.
As for the rest of it...her claims etc who cares really if she is lying it's to herself and she will be the one to pay....and if she really is a friend say this to her....0 -
I dunno, but to me it sounds like the OP and her friend are perfect matches for each other. Heck, right this second her friend is probably in some other forum making a judgey, ill informed post about the OP trying IF.
Just don't break up0 -
... And let's say your friend is lying or not sure about her eating but did lose those 30 lbs over summer - if she's overweight and very active (but not an athlete, like you say) it's not impossible to have a BMR of 1700 and an activity level of 1.75 which would place her at about 3K TDEE. Her actual eating would be at about 1500 cals (assuming 3 months for the loss and effective 3500 per lb and no water weight loss....) This is below the 2000 she reports but not necessarily a dangerous level for 3 months - certainly not one where nutrition can not be met.
Yet you assume that she's eating as low as 500 cals (as the story evolved).
Now, you are starting IFing. How far is your average daily from that 1500 figure? About 500?
Is IF a lifestyle change for you or are you using it to transition to something else?
Edit: missing not
So I'm being criticized for making assumptions about my friend, but you get to make assumptions about me? I guess if that makes sense in your world, go for it.
Since you didn't seem to understand my point the first time, I made it clear to you that there were several possible options for what was going on with her, one of which included that she might be eating very low calories. And the likelihood of a lightly active, moderately overweight female having a TDEE of 3k is slim.
If you knew anything about IF you would know that weekly averages are what matter the most. I have said 0 things about what my IF plans are. I haven't even started it yet.
Lesson in life. If you put something negative out there, you'll get negative reactions. The details of what your friend puts in her mouth, how fast fat comes off her body, or her TDEE do not matter.
What does matter is your attitude. Some folks are telling you it's none of your business. You're fighting back. You don't want to hear it.
In the bigger picture, your attitude will have a tremendous effect on your life, not just your diet.
Compliment someone, and you'll get positive reactions.
Shred someone, and you'll get negative ones.
Hard to stay consistent on a diet with a negative attitude.
*ducking flames*
This isn't my attitude all the time. I tried to bring up something that I was interested in, to my friend and was attacked and made to feel bad about it by her, when I knew some of the stuff she was saying was flat out wrong. I was mad so I vented online. This is my business - it's my life, my friends (and I want them to make healthy, sustainable choices for themselves), how I was made to feel. The only place where I feel I've stepped out of bounds is posting this online - if anything, this is none of your business.
Edited for clarity.0 -
I actually know a few girls who have tried these shakes and it's not just a matter of weight loss...they get involved in the pyramid scheme, believe the hype that this is truly the healthiest way to not just lose weight but also to live, and they get offended if you won't also buy into the brainwashing. I don't know anyone who has tried these shakes who hasn't begun to sell the product themselves and subsequently try and get me to spend $400/month on these shakes. One of my closest friends has been trying to convince me for months that despite her never even walking around the block or getting any exercise of any kind, that she has increased her muscle mass solely by drinking these magic shakes. It's craziness. Just keep doing what you're doing and eating healthily and exercising. When your friend stops these shakes she will gain ALL that water weight back and just be left with her unhealthy diet. Don't stress it.0
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This isn't my attitude all the time. I tried to bring up something that I was interested in and was attacked and made to feel bad about myself for bringing it up, when I knew some of the stuff she was saying was flat out wrong. I was mad so I vented online. This is my business - it's my life, my friends (and I want them to make healthy, sustainable choices for themselves), how I was made to feel. The only place where I feel I've stepped out of bounds is posting this online - if anything, this is none of your business.
You aren't being attacked. And I hope you don't feel bad about yourself.
What your friend is saying *might* be bad advice but it isn't so black and white as you think - people can and do lose weight in a variety of ways. How you keep it off is what matters - whether it is shakes or IF or whatever. The same questions remain valid.
:flowerforyou:0 -
This isn't my attitude all the time. I tried to bring up something that I was interested in and was attacked and made to feel bad about myself for bringing it up, when I knew some of the stuff she was saying was flat out wrong. I was mad so I vented online. This is my business - it's my life, my friends (and I want them to make healthy, sustainable choices for themselves), how I was made to feel. The only place where I feel I've stepped out of bounds is posting this online - if anything, this is none of your business.
You aren't being attacked. And I hope you don't feel bad about yourself.
What your friend is saying *might* be bad advice but it isn't so black and white as you think - people can and do lose weight in a variety of ways. How you keep it off is what matters - whether it is shakes or IF or whatever. The same questions remain valid.
:flowerforyou:
Oh I wasn't referring to you! My friend made me feel really bad! I tried bringing something up to her and she attacked me with her shake stuff. No, while I didn't agree with some of the things you were saying initially, I don't think you're attacking me.0 -
hoOoo boy :ohwell:
Nod & smile :blushing:
Then do your own thing
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People can get very passionate about what they think/feel is the right way. I hope this doesn't come between you and your friend. I guess you now know to not bring up the topic with her again. It'll die down and she will eventually see that your way works for you.0
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This isn't my attitude all the time. I tried to bring up something that I was interested in and was attacked and made to feel bad about myself for bringing it up, when I knew some of the stuff she was saying was flat out wrong. I was mad so I vented online. This is my business - it's my life, my friends (and I want them to make healthy, sustainable choices for themselves), how I was made to feel. The only place where I feel I've stepped out of bounds is posting this online - if anything, this is none of your business.
You aren't being attacked. And I hope you don't feel bad about yourself.
What your friend is saying *might* be bad advice but it isn't so black and white as you think - people can and do lose weight in a variety of ways. How you keep it off is what matters - whether it is shakes or IF or whatever. The same questions remain valid.
:flowerforyou:
Oh I wasn't referring to you! My friend made me feel really bad! I tried bringing something up to her and she attacked me with her shake stuff. No, while I didn't agree with some of the things you were saying initially, I don't think you're attacking me.
I'm sorry your friend made you feel bad - I do completely agree that the choices we make to lose weight or develop our fitness are personal and have a deep emotional element (often more than they should) and criticism can be disheartnening or downright counter-productive.
There is nothing wrong with IF some people find it to be a very successful means of either reducing total calories or fitting into a body recomposition program. And it can be a long-term method although I've seen people report here that they struggle and found it too difficult / I've also seen others basterdize into some weird calorie restriction program and end with total low cals for the week as a result.0 -
2000 calories in shakes each day is a LOT! And I think it would be hard for most people to lose 3lbs a week eating that much, especially if they don't have a lot of weight to lose. IMO she is padding her results....maybe it's one of those programs where if someone you recommends joins, you get money/discounts.
Anyhow, as mentioned don't let her get to you. If you are interested in the intermittent fasting, check out the JUDDD boards here. It is an interesting plan.0 -
I would just laugh. Let her waste her money how she wants.0
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-She eats 2000 calories a day on this diet and loses three pounds a week,
Let's see...2000 calories/days intake, 3 lbs (claimed) of fat lose per week -> 10,500 calories, or 1500 cal/day...so her TDEE must be 3500 cal/day. On the high end, but not ridiculously so.
Is she active/big enough to be hitting that? If yes, then she may well be telling it like it is.0 -
I understand your rant. One of my facebook friends is always writing love letters to her shakes!!!
On IF, just watch because sometimes the results are different for women than men. I do it occasionally, but more spontaneously and usually just skipping one meal. I don't do 5:2 or anything.
Always good advice.Nod & smile
Then do your own thing0 -
I tried IF and had some success with it, but I dropped it because it's not quite compatible with my lifestyle. As long as you're healthy, IF would work because it sort of confuses your body. The day before you eat normally so your body keeps burning at the normal rate, today you fast so it burns fat at close to normal metabolic level (maximizing the already large deficit), the next day you eat normal again and restore your normal metabolic rate.
Shakes would work too; it's very easy to do for people who can't be bothered with logging their calories. Basically it's a way to limit calories without counting. Whether or not it's something that you can keep doing for the rest of your life is a different matter.0 -
hoOoo boy :ohwell:
Nod & smile :blushing:
Then do your own thing
THIS! IF is tough to do with all the shake worshippers and advice on many small meals, etc. We all have different lifestyles, different habits, different control issues, and on and on. IF works for me, and when it comes up I'll gladly share my experiences with them...but I keep all of my opinions on people's weight loss methods to myself, nod and smile, maybe add a "I'm glad you've found something that works for you!" I refuse to become one of the people who try to make everyone do what I'm doing because I like it/am seeing success.0
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