Did anyone watch Oprah Monday night? Shame, blame and the weightloss revolution.
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That’s a really cool religion! I actually meant to say medication not meditation. Sorry. I do believe meditation is beneficial though.MargaretYakoda wrote: »
I totally support whatever you would like to do with your body. I just don’t trust the companies. I believe meditation helps a lot of people. I think at this point the industry is more focused on profit and innovation than actually treating conditions vs symptoms.MargaretYakoda wrote: »I just don’t feel like I can trust pharmaceutical companies anymore 🤷♂️
Okay?
But that’s an entirely different discussion.
Pharmaceutical interventions have literally saved my life, and the lives of most of my loved ones.
This specific intervention that is the topic of this discussion could very well solve a serious problem that I have been dealing with for 15 years. A problem that years of diet and exercise has done nothing to alleviate.
I’m actually looking forward to getting a prescription for ozempic or Wegovy.
It will be beneficial for me.
I’m here hoping for support. And to support others.
My good sir, I am literally a Buddhist…
Getting back on topic.
I haven’t seen any studies that suggest semaglutides are more dangerous than the effects of long term refractive obesity, unaddressed fatty liver disease, or elevated A1C.
If you’re not dealing with those issues then cool. That’s really great.
But they’re a godsend for some people. And I do hope we can agree to support the folks who need it.3 -
AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »
Don’t bother clicking that link, folks. It’s just a YouTube short of Tracy Morgan telling a story about being a personal trainer and having a client pass wind in his face.
It has nothing to do with the current discussion.
I’m frankly mystified why an adult would think such a video would have any relevance here. Except perhaps to insult the people who might be prescribed a semaglutide?
EDIT: the original link was a mistake.
I am editing this to reflect that the *current* link is actually pretty good.
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I totally support folks who need medication. I haven’t seen any studies either, but I don’t think I would trust them anyway.MargaretYakoda wrote: »
That’s a really cool religion! I actually meant to say medication not meditation. Sorry. I do believe meditation is beneficial though.MargaretYakoda wrote: »
I totally support whatever you would like to do with your body. I just don’t trust the companies. I believe meditation helps a lot of people. I think at this point the industry is more focused on profit and innovation than actually treating conditions vs symptoms.MargaretYakoda wrote: »I just don’t feel like I can trust pharmaceutical companies anymore 🤷♂️
Okay?
But that’s an entirely different discussion.
Pharmaceutical interventions have literally saved my life, and the lives of most of my loved ones.
This specific intervention that is the topic of this discussion could very well solve a serious problem that I have been dealing with for 15 years. A problem that years of diet and exercise has done nothing to alleviate.
I’m actually looking forward to getting a prescription for ozempic or Wegovy.
It will be beneficial for me.
I’m here hoping for support. And to support others.
My good sir, I am literally a Buddhist…
Getting back on topic.
I haven’t seen any studies that suggest semaglutides are more dangerous than the effects of long term refractive obesity, unaddressed fatty liver disease, or elevated A1C.
If you’re not dealing with those issues then cool. That’s really great.
But they’re a godsend for some people. And I do hope we can agree to support the folks who need it.
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Oops, I copied the wrong one!✌️1
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I myself had not really understood that Obesity itself was considered a disease (not every person that is overweight necessarily has the disease).
I think our whole society was skeptical? So we blew it off?? Oprah said during the special - I didn't get the memo, or words to that effect lol.
It was 2013 when the AMA voted to recognize it (2015 for the Canadian Medical Assn). But this is not a new theory - from a paper written in 2008:
"The recognition of obesity as a disease was in theory established in 1948 by WHO's (World Health Organization) taking on the International Classification of Diseases but the early highlighting of the potential public health problem in the United States and the United Kingdom 35 years ago was considered irrelevant elsewhere."
This is from an article written in December, link is below:
"Is obesity a disease or a disorder?
Obesity is a chronic disease. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), obesity affects 42.8% of middle-age adults. Obesity is closely related to several other chronic diseases, including heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, sleep apnea, certain cancers, joint diseases, and more."
https://obesitymedicine.org/blog/why-is-obesity-a-disease/
So, I am just coming to terms with what this means for me personally as I absolutely believe I have the Obesity gene...I have yoyo'd ever higher (despite my very best efforts not to do so) for the past 30 years. And I freely admit I am a sedentary creature by nature, habit and profession, which does not help.1 -
I just don’t feel like I can trust pharmaceutical companies anymore 🤷♂️
Does that mean you would refuse ANY pharmaceutical intervention for a medical issue? While I think individuals need to do their research and not trust anything on face value. Making a statement like this just devalues the incredibly good work that pharma has done - despite some of the supreme bad as well.
I DO know several people who are using weight loss drugs for vanity. I think it is irresponsible. I know others who have tried, for years and years, to use CICO to reduce weight and have had short term success but cannot sustain it. Some of those people may have underlying medical conditions that prevent long-term weight loss. Others do not. They just cannot maintain the momentum. It would be FANTASTIC if everyone could sustain the motivation and strength to maintain loss through CICO. Frankly, it would be ideal. But it is just not realistic.
We know that there are significant health impacts for being overweight and obese - and these impacts hurt not just individuals but society. I fail to see, if evidence shows that there IS medicine to help, why we should scoff at it.
I look at my own case. About a decade ago I was overweight and I used dedication to CICO to lose almost 40 pounds. In my early 40s I was probably the fittest I have ever been. I just came across photos from those days and it ties me in knots that I have gained all of that weight back. For the last two years I have been rededicated to CICO - tracking calories, minimizing processed foods, emphasizing high protein, exercising (some cardio with a focus on strength training). I see little change. I am perimenopausal, and in a job that is constant stress (cortisol ain't my friend), and without as much time to exercise as I would like (I routinely work 12+ hour days). I am struggling to lose the weight even though I am, by all accounts, doing the right things.
I NEED to go to the doctor to get all my levels checked - and if it is suggested that a GLP can help, I will do it. And do it without shame. Why? For two years I have been trying to do weight loss the "right way" to no avail. I know if I continue to gain, at my age (50), it's not going to lead to a positive outcome. If a pharmaceutical intervention can help, I will be all for it. And I will STILL focus on CICO and making healthy choices. But, my decision to go with drugs - if that is the medically recommended path - will have nothing to do with my willpower or character.3 -
Thought the special was interesting and important to furthering important consideration, discussion and a more common understanding of the issues. Wish it had been more in depth; at least 2 hours or more specials to come.
The 2 doctors on the show, I believe, work with or for the 2 pharma companies making the drugs. I wish alternative/non-affiliated points of view had been included, and wondered if this is an advertisement in the form of education (an advertising strategy deployed often.)
So I would ask, what did Oprah get out of this? Compensations? She said she stepped away from Weight Watchers to avoid conflict of interest perceptions? Or is there a more direct conflict she had to avoid? Wish we knew. It would help to understand her real motivations. I would "hope" there really is a personal, sincere interest to help with this issue, for herself, for everyone.
Also, was saddened to realize these drugs are not covered by medicare, medicaid, nor apparently a significant number of insurance programs. That, as a policy matter, may require an act of congress, along the lines of mandating other particular services to be included. Imagine we are a long ways from that.
The point/consequence of the current high prices is to pretty much, once more, exclude lower/poor socio-economic groups... wholly inequitable. If this is simply a vanity procedure/drug, whatever.
But if this is truly a breakthrough therapy that can save lives, then i would hope the prices come down and it becomes accessible to the millions who have sincerely tried and been unable to maintain or lose weight.
For consideration, how many extra calories per day =5 lb weight gain per year. Just 50? In terms of food, just 1/2 an extra apple a day?
-- over 20 years x5lbs = 200 lbs extra weight?
And for 1/2 an apple extra a day, so many people suffer such horrible co-morbidity complications and "widely accepted" discriminations throughout all areas of society...
(People who suffer obesity) It is very similar to how alcoholics were disdained before they were offered medical/social support. We need such a shift in societal attitudes with obesity, so we can get on with addressing it. The program was another step forward. Thought it was worth the watch.
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Viagra was developed for blood pressure.Thing is Ozempic wasn't developed for weight loss but diabetes.
Your statement "Thing is" while true, doesn't mean much. It isn't the "Thing." Digging deeper into the basic science who knows what's there.
You went on to make many other good points and Wegovey (Ozempic) is FDA approved for obesity, it is for sale in the US, and a hundred MFPers could write happy anecdotes here if they choose.
Medicare just approved Wegovy for people with cardiovascular diesease too. Not obesity, or diabetes, because it's effective there too.
As you wrote all treatments can have complications and side effects, and I am infavor of treating people who have given informed consent.2 -
BCLadybug888 wrote: »I myself had not really understood that Obesity itself was considered a disease (not every person that is overweight necessarily has the disease).
I think our whole society was skeptical? So we blew it off?? Oprah said during the special - I didn't get the memo, or words to that effect lol.
It was 2013 when the AMA voted to recognize it (2015 for the Canadian Medical Assn). But this is not a new theory - from a paper written in 2008:
"The recognition of obesity as a disease was in theory established in 1948 by WHO's (World Health Organization) taking on the International Classification of Diseases but the early highlighting of the potential public health problem in the United States and the United Kingdom 35 years ago was considered irrelevant elsewhere."
Bingo.
There is a lot of misinformation about the causes of obesity. And a lot we’re still learning about it.
Most people think it’s as simple as cico, and remaining active.
But if that were the only factor, we wouldn’t see people who really truly are trying struggling so much just to make a little progress.
I had a friend who struggled with weight their entire life. They were a Pacific Islander, and there was a strong genetic component to their weight.
They spent the last few years in a care facility, with their food intake very strongly controlled.
They lost some weight. But never were able, even with 100% supervision 100% of the time, to achieve anything even approaching a normal adult weight.
Something else HAD to be a factor.
Unfortunately, they passed before they could access these new drugs.
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... sad, indeed1
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »An Oprah special that sparks conversation and research is great. If you are forming conclusive opinions either way based on the special then 😕. People are complicated. I do know this… once you call something a disease the remedy of medication 💊 💉 is logical. These medications are new. There is no long term data yet. There are serious side effects. The weight comes back when you stop taking a GLP-1. There are also people with an agenda 💰 that want obesity labeled as a disease to induce the medication
Obesity is definitely a medical issue.
If medication is helpful there should be no shame about using it.
Even long term.
The long term effects of obesity, as well as diabetes, and fatty liver disease are well known
Why not use the tools available to assist weight loss, blood sugar levels, or the other issues this new class of drugs seems to help people with?
If I stop taking metformin my blood glucose rises. If I stop taking my thyroid meds my metabolism tanks and I gain a lot of weight very quickly.
Modern medicine is very effective and important. Shaming people for taking medication that has been prescribed by a person’s doctor doesn’t help anyone.
I always hesitate to post about health and fitness topics because of this. Straw man argument responses. Of course obesity is a medical issue. I did not claim otherwise. I also did not say refrain from taking medication for a disease or any medical issue.2 -
fuzzylolipop wrote: »An Oprah special that sparks conversation and research is great. If you are forming conclusive opinions either way based on the special then 😕. People are complicated. I do know this… once you call something a disease the remedy of medication 💊 💉 is logical. These medications are new. There is no long term data yet. There are serious side effects. The weight comes back when you stop taking a GLP-1. There are also people with an agenda 💰 that want obesity labeled as a disease to induce the medication
If obesity is a disease, wouldn’t that infer people who have the disease control their calories but still gain weight (or can’t lose weight)? I’ve never heard of any research that concludes this. But I have heard of mountains of research showing a calorie deficit results in weight loss.
Semiglutide has been approved in the US since 2017. They have been researching and working w GLP-1 drugs since 2005 - so 20 years.
Exactly. They came to market at the end of 2017, so only 6 years... and the intent was to combat diabetes. The use of the meds as a weight loss aid is much more recent, so there has been no general public long-term data on its use for weight loss. What we do know already is that there are side effects, muscle loss, and weight regain when stopping the medication.
I am not against the drugs for weight loss. My only point, really, is that I hope people would be informed before rushing in.2 -
Breaking news (yesterday), medicare may now cover the drugs when there is heart disease too. Although appears optional for insurers to include at this point in part d plans.
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/21/medicare-wegovy-ozempic-weight-loss-drugs-allow1 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »An Oprah special that sparks conversation and research is great. If you are forming conclusive opinions either way based on the special then 😕. People are complicated. I do know this… once you call something a disease the remedy of medication 💊 💉 is logical. These medications are new. There is no long term data yet. There are serious side effects. The weight comes back when you stop taking a GLP-1. There are also people with an agenda 💰 that want obesity labeled as a disease to induce the medication
Obesity is definitely a medical issue.
If medication is helpful there should be no shame about using it.
Even long term.
The long term effects of obesity, as well as diabetes, and fatty liver disease are well known
Why not use the tools available to assist weight loss, blood sugar levels, or the other issues this new class of drugs seems to help people with?
If I stop taking metformin my blood glucose rises. If I stop taking my thyroid meds my metabolism tanks and I gain a lot of weight very quickly.
Modern medicine is very effective and important. Shaming people for taking medication that has been prescribed by a person’s doctor doesn’t help anyone.
I always hesitate to post about health and fitness topics because of this. Straw man argument responses. Of course obesity is a medical issue. I did not claim otherwise. I also did not say refrain from taking medication for a disease or any medical issue.
@jbs116 ~ not to argue, but a sincere question. How is the reasoning by @MargaretYakoda a strawman argument? I actually agree and thought both of your posts were positive and helpful for thought on the topic.
I would add that the fda is considering how these meds may have therapeutic benefits with other chronic/progressive related disease processes and may consider additional use approvals, long-term possibly even.
And, also to add, other uses sometimes come beyond the original intent, such as injections in the eyes for macular degeneration started after use of cancer chemo drugs led to vision improvements.2 -
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::shrug::MargaretYakoda wrote: »An Oprah special that sparks conversation and research is great. If you are forming conclusive opinions either way based on the special then 😕. People are complicated. I do know this… once you call something a disease the remedy of medication 💊 💉 is logical. These medications are new. There is no long term data yet. There are serious side effects. The weight comes back when you stop taking a GLP-1. There are also people with an agenda 💰 that want obesity labeled as a disease to induce the medication
Obesity is definitely a medical issue.
If medication is helpful there should be no shame about using it.
Even long term.
The long term effects of obesity, as well as diabetes, and fatty liver disease are well known
Why not use the tools available to assist weight loss, blood sugar levels, or the other issues this new class of drugs seems to help people with?
If I stop taking metformin my blood glucose rises. If I stop taking my thyroid meds my metabolism tanks and I gain a lot of weight very quickly.
Modern medicine is very effective and important. Shaming people for taking medication that has been prescribed by a person’s doctor doesn’t help anyone.
I always hesitate to post about health and fitness topics because of this. Straw man argument responses. Of course obesity is a medical issue. I did not claim otherwise. I also did not say refrain from taking medication for a disease or any medical issue.
I don’t think it’s a strawman to push back on the idea that a class of drugs that has been in development for 15 years, and that is showing very good results for people who have struggled with obesity, as well as liver issues and other chronic health conditions is somehow sus because pharmaceutical companies are making money.
There is a discussion to be had about Big Pharma wildly overcharging people for things like insulin, epi pens, etc.
But that is a different conversation than this one.
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@Adventurista
straw man argument -where a debater does not engage with the actual points being made, but with a completely different point.2 -
I know that obesity is called a disease by American Medical Association. Honestly, I don't really agree. Obesity causes disease.
I don't think that Doctors should start writing prescriptions out willy nilly to everyone tips to the obesity side of the BMI chart without offering basic weight loss help, first. I think it should be the last resort. *my opinion, okay!* 😉✌️
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Nvm I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't really want to have a debate either3
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AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »I know that obesity is called a disease by American Medical Association. Honestly, I don't really agree. Obesity causes disease.
I don't think that Doctors should start writing prescriptions out willy nilly to everyone tips to the obesity side of the BMI chart without offering basic weight loss help, first. I think it should be the last resort. *my opinion, okay!* 😉✌️
Well, considering there was once a doctor on these forums who was passing out incredibly harmful advice to people who weren’t even asking…. Yeah. (they got permanently banned)
Point heard. Just because someone with MD after their name says something, does not mean we should take the advice completely uncritically.
That said?
not without a drop of caution
I am interested and a little excited about this class of drugs, and how they might be very helpful for a lot of people.
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AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »@Adventurista
straw man argument -where a debater does not engage with the actual points being made, but with a completely different point.
Ty,
I just read the reply as relevant with reasons to the reply and op/program.
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.Adventurista wrote: »AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »@Adventurista
straw man argument -where a debater does not engage with the actual points being made, but with a completely different point.
Ty,
I just read the reply as relevant with reasons to the reply and op/program.
Agreed, I failed to see the "straw man" aspect of the reply quoted too and understand the definition.1 -
AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »I know that obesity is called a disease by American Medical Association. Honestly, I don't really agree. Obesity causes disease.
I don't think that Doctors should start writing prescriptions out willy nilly to everyone tips to the obesity side of the BMI chart without offering basic weight loss help, first. I think it should be the last resort. *my opinion, okay!* 😉✌️
Obesity definitely contributes to other diseases, but that doesn't mean Obesity itself can't be one too. And it's not just the AMA that recognized it as a a disease (not sure what you have against the AMA), it is also the world health organization as well as several other countries.
I know where you are coming from though, as I speculated in an earlier post, maybe it is societal skepticism that means this recognition is still controversial and not widely known or accepted. I am including myself here, but I think I am buying in - at least for some of us repeat dieters who have gone at it sincerely, many (like myself & Oprah) for literally decades! There must be some factors we are missing with treatment that fails so often.2 -
BCLadybug888 wrote: »AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »I know that obesity is called a disease by American Medical Association. Honestly, I don't really agree. Obesity causes disease.
I don't think that Doctors should start writing prescriptions out willy nilly to everyone tips to the obesity side of the BMI chart without offering basic weight loss help, first. I think it should be the last resort. *my opinion, okay!* 😉✌️
Obesity definitely contributes to other diseases, but that doesn't mean Obesity itself can't be one too. And it's not just the AMA that recognized it as a a disease (not sure what you have against the AMA), it is also the world health organization as well as several other countries.
I know where you are coming from though, as I speculated in an earlier post, maybe it is societal skepticism that means this recognition is still controversial and not widely known or accepted. I am including myself here, but I think I am buying in - at least for some of us repeat dieters who have gone at it sincerely, many (like myself & Oprah) for literally decades! There must be some factors we are missing with treatment that fails so often.
I’d be interested in seeing the obesity as disease in the debate section of MFP.
I don’t think it matters how one becomes obese.. the fact is, once someone is obese it has many acute and chronic complications for the body.
In the news there was a lot of talk about being “healthy and fat” at the same time. If we say it’s a disease, there is no being obese and healthy at any size.
To the topic- whatever reason, there are people who cannot achieve a healthy weight. If medicated weight loss works for them.. so be it, so long as the many contraindications of the drugs are well known and discussed.
One of my co workers has been on Wegovy. She pays $1,400 a month for the injections. It’s worked for her… but she hasn’t changed her way of eating or underlying issues with food. I worry (for some) it’s going to be a merry go round of back and forth on the drug.
We’ll have to wait and see and hope that the many on the injections are able to maintain their weight long term.
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »BCLadybug888 wrote: »AdahPotatah2024 wrote: »I know that obesity is called a disease by American Medical Association. Honestly, I don't really agree. Obesity causes disease.
I don't think that Doctors should start writing prescriptions out willy nilly to everyone tips to the obesity side of the BMI chart without offering basic weight loss help, first. I think it should be the last resort. *my opinion, okay!* 😉✌️
Obesity definitely contributes to other diseases, but that doesn't mean Obesity itself can't be one too. And it's not just the AMA that recognized it as a a disease (not sure what you have against the AMA), it is also the world health organization as well as several other countries.
I know where you are coming from though, as I speculated in an earlier post, maybe it is societal skepticism that means this recognition is still controversial and not widely known or accepted. I am including myself here, but I think I am buying in - at least for some of us repeat dieters who have gone at it sincerely, many (like myself & Oprah) for literally decades! There must be some factors we are missing with treatment that fails so often.
I’d be interested in seeing the obesity as disease in the debate section of MFP.
I don’t think it matters how one becomes obese.. the fact is, once someone is obese it has many acute and chronic complications for the body.
In the news there was a lot of talk about being “healthy and fat” at the same time. If we say it’s a disease, there is no being obese and healthy at any size.
To the topic- whatever reason, there are people who cannot achieve a healthy weight. If medicated weight loss works for them.. so be it, so long as the many contraindications of the drugs are well known and discussed.
One of my co workers has been on Wegovy. She pays $1,400 a month for the injections. It’s worked for her… but she hasn’t changed her way of eating or underlying issues with food. I worry (for some) it’s going to be a merry go round of back and forth on the drug.
We’ll have to wait and see and hope that the many on the injections are able to maintain their weight long term.
If obesity is a disease it likely requires lifelong treatment, with medication being one of those treatments5 -
@itchmyTwitch
Interesting. Makes sense.
My coworker is definitely only planning on taking it til her goal weight. (She had 25lbs to lose.)
Unsure what her dr has recommended.1 -
I think obesity as a disease is still debatable even though medical professionals consider it one. Both my grandmothers were on the obese side. One didn't have any illness directly correlating to her weight and one had diabetes. They both lived to be late 80s.2
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SafariGalNYC wrote: »One of my co workers has been on Wegovy. She pays $1,400 a month for the injections. It’s worked for her… but she hasn’t changed her way of eating or underlying issues with food. I worry (for some) it’s going to be a merry go round of back and forth on the drug.
We’ll have to wait and see and hope that the many on the injections are able to maintain their weight long term.
There will always be some noncompliant patients. Even with insulin there are some who continue to have extremely poor habits.
The semeglutides are (imo) just one more tool.
Some people are going to do everything they can for the healthiest outcome possible.
Others.. probably need more tools.
Everyone is different.
And obesity is looking like a more complicated issue than just cico. (Something I have suspected for a long time)
I’m interested in more research. For sure.
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