Reality Check: Skinny People Must Have Fast Metabolisms
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"Special Isotope Markers" - doesn't that mean these people drank a radioactive solution?:sick:
The videos said it was non-radioactive.
This is why I'd rather read a paper. Had never heard of "nonradioactive isotope" used for detection. But I see things like 13C do exist.0 -
"Special Isotope Markers" - doesn't that mean these people drank a radioactive solution?:sick:
You do know that isotope markers are used in the medical field for things like PET and certain CT scans, right?
Um yes actually.
PET= Positron Emission Tomography detects gamma particles (emitted from a positron-emitting radionuclide. Such the radioisotope 18F (FDG).
CT is also radiation based. I can see using these for diagnosing a real medical problem like cancer, but not just "for kicks" rto show you are eating too much.
As Whierd said, in the video they are non-radioactive. and how is doing this and showing the women the truth to help them get healthier something for "kicks"?
If doing this helps them change their habits and thinking and be successful in getting healthier...isn't that the same as getting a CT scan to show where the issues are? If one is "for kicks" then you are saying that both methods are.
Oh yikes. Well, I admitted my lack of knowledge about "nonradioactive isotopes" used for detection above. But still, if I had to elect to drink a radioactive solution to identify the location of a tumor in my body I would. If I had to do it to tell me whether I was justified in staying overweight or not, I would not. Sorry if I offended you. :flowerforyou:0 -
Two things...
I've got a friend who's one of those "I eat and eat and never weigh more than 105" people...and I admit that when we go out to lunch or whatever she eats just as much as anyone else. But I have no idea what she eats or doesn't eat when I'm not around. I've always assumed that she just enjoys being the special skinny snowflake that everyone else wants to be, so she exaggerates her food consumption. The fact that she brings it up all the time is a good clue that it's something she enjoys talking about and makes her feel good to be an object of envy.
Second, I remember reading a study many years ago that determined that the vast majority of people of a slim to healthy weight practice what they called "chronic restrained eating". In other words, they were mindful of what they ate and in what portions. Myself, I weighed between 120 and 150 for most of my adult life (up until I was about 40 years old) and maintained that weight only through restricting food and exercising. It certainly wasn't effortless.
So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.0 -
Bump0
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I'm going to add this to my arsenal! I had an extremely overweight friend tell me that he looks like he eats like a pig, but he doesn't. I told him to watch Secret Eaters, and he said he wasn't a secret eater. Ugh. Just watch the damn thing! Thanks for posting this!0
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I've got a friend who's one of those "I eat and eat and never weigh more than 105" people...and I admit that when we go out to lunch or whatever she eats just as much as anyone else. But I have no idea what she eats or doesn't eat when I'm not around.
When I was younger, I ate whatever I wanted and I ate A LOT. You name the junk food, it was pretty much in my daily diet. The restaurant meals I ate regularly were easily more than 3,000 calories alone. And I didn't do much in the way of exercise, by accident or on purpose.
I was tiny.
I turned 28 and continued eating and moving the same and gained 30 pounds in a matter of months. I took control, ate less and moved more and lost it.
I think that's pretty good evidence that metabolism CAN impact weight and sometimes it slows down.
I'm sure there are people who out-eat their faster metabolisms and gain and there are people who are very thin simply because of their eating and exercise habits. But there ARE people who are thin because they have a faster metabolic rate in general. It happens.0 -
So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
And this could be where genetics comes into play. I read a study recently that people who are very overweight or obese have a much greater instance of a genetic mutation that actually makes them feel hungry after eating, often leading them to overeat.
The study was a prompted by the fact that those who have weight loss surgery and lose weight very quickly can reverse this mutation. Children born to overweight women with the mutation often have the same mutation, but children born to the same woman after weight loss surgery do not. It's pretty interesting stuff.0 -
It makes perfect sense. Usually, the bigger you are the FASTER your metabolism because you are unfit, so your body has to work harder to move your mass around.
Still doesn't make sense. Having to move around a lot of bodyweight is extra energy expended during activities, not an increase in BMR.
The body burns a lot of calories trying to stay cool. Imagine how hard it would have to work if it was wearing a literal fat suit? Extra calories. Heart has to pump faster and harder because the blood volume is so much larger. More calories.
Just off the top of my head why an obese person might have a higher BMR than a normal weight person.0 -
So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
And this could be where genetics comes into play. I read a study recently that people who are very overweight or obese have a much greater instance of a genetic mutation that actually makes them feel hungry after eating, often leading them to overeat.
The study was a prompted by the fact that those who have weight loss surgery and lose weight very quickly can reverse this mutation. Children born to overweight women with the mutation often have the same mutation, but children born to the same woman after weight loss surgery do not. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Do you have a ref. to the study?0 -
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Found this on 'doubly labelled' or 'heavy water' - In practice, for both practical and safety reasons, almost all recent applications of the "doubly labeled water" method use water labeled with the heavy, non-radioactive forms of the elements deuterium and oxygen-18 (O-18 or 18O), or deuterium oxide-18 (D218O).0
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So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
And this could be where genetics comes into play. I read a study recently that people who are very overweight or obese have a much greater instance of a genetic mutation that actually makes them feel hungry after eating, often leading them to overeat.
The study was a prompted by the fact that those who have weight loss surgery and lose weight very quickly can reverse this mutation. Children born to overweight women with the mutation often have the same mutation, but children born to the same woman after weight loss surgery do not. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Do you have a ref. to the study?
I didn't read it online but I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I think it was in JAMA.0 -
Boom.
Nice beardage.0 -
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metabolism, like most things, can be trained, mine was ruined with anorexia, I know maintain on 3500-4000 calories a day
I don't imagine a change in body mass had anything to do with that? How much did you weigh then and how much do you weigh now?0 -
bump to check later - thanks0
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"...forgot to record 43% of what she'd eaten."
Yeah, I can see that.
The "doubly-labeled water" or whatever that isotope shake was - wow - that's awesome!
Isn't that what they call 'heavy water'? Yeah, totally busted them on their overeating. Whenever I hear an obese person going on and on about how they don't eat 'much' I have to bite my tongue severely.
Missing 43% of my calorie intake is nothing I tell you! NOTHING!
Calories-in, calories-out is a LIE!
Puhh...
If you ever come across a study that uses 'self-reporting' as it's methods...
Gently ease a giant smile on your face, walk away calmly, and forget everything you just read.
Oh,
and demand that NSF stop funding poorly designed research studies.
Do you know of any long term large studies that haven't used this method?
No, not that I am aware of, and that is the problem.
The ONLY reliable weight loss studies (or any studies that examine human beings and food) are the ones that are preformed by competent researchers in metabolic wards where the participants are kept locked up and under 24-hour surveillance - you can just imagine the cost and man-hours required to perform such studies, which explains why they are not done very often nor for very long.
It's MY personal opinion that in order to conduct long term studies (which are absolutely crucial to observe long-term implications) we really need to step up our technology a bit and take human error out of the equation. For example, what if we could give everyone in a study doubly-labeled water for extended periods of time?
Food diaries can lie, but there's no cheating isotopes.
And not to get all day-dreamy here, but can you imagine a device, much like a fitbit or a body bugg, that could be implanted underneath the skin that can determine EXACTLY how many calories we are burning/consuming each minute of each day? Such a device would be a god-send for researchers (not to mention the general public) given that it is accurate.
The science just isn't there yet, but I'm excited for the day that it is and hope it's something I get to witness in my lifetime. Science and technology is the key to understanding
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That's what I thought. Isn't there a "quick and dirty" way to estimate your BMR by multiplying your body weight by ten?
I wasn't invoking it as an excuse, quite the opposite. It is far more difficult for me now to lose weight than it was when I was heavier. I know that Maintenance will be tougher still, unless I increase my lean body mass. I am not a special snowflake, but like I said, I don't know the science, but am definitely interested in learning exactly why this is.I don't know the actual science behind it, but it makes sense. When I was 300lbs, I could burn 3000 calories a day doing literally nothing. Now, at 183, I have to bust my butt to hit 2750 calories burned a day. I assume that fitter, lighter bodies are more efficient.
I think you missed the point. Studies show BMR is mostly a function of lean mass, with very little dependence on fat mass. Adding muscle mass and EPOC effect will increase energy consumption during periods of rest, but I'm not aware of significant impact to metabolic efficiency, which is cellular/genetic (other than hormonal/thyroid/hypothalamus issues arising).
I'm guessing your 3000 cals/day number didn't come from a calorimetry measurement, and is probably not accurate at all.
People WANT that original statment to make sense, because it justifies their eating more. Just another fattie excuse.
This thread is on point. Props to everyone who has lost weight and improved their health. But don't minimize the efforts of people who have always maintained a healthy physique by invoking the fast vs. slow metabolism excuse. It's insulting to those of us who have worked hard for many years (or all our lives) to stay fit.
Your BMR is actually higher the heavier you are. It takes effort for the body to 'do it's job' of keeping things working. The bigger you are, the more effort that takes. Fat is metabolically active, not as much as muscle, but still active, and everything has to work a bit harder and a bit more.
Edited for typo.
Age and LBM plays a role so it's pretty inaccurate, but it's not too bad as a really 'quick and dirty' method assuming you are in an 'average' BF%. The higher BF% you get, the less accurate it gets.0 -
It makes perfect sense. Usually, the bigger you are the FASTER your metabolism because you are unfit, so your body has to work harder to move your mass around.
Still doesn't make sense. Having to move around a lot of bodyweight is extra energy expended during activities, not an increase in BMR.
The body burns a lot of calories trying to stay cool. Imagine how hard it would have to work if it was wearing a literal fat suit? Extra calories. Heart has to pump faster and harder because the blood volume is so much larger. More calories.
Just off the top of my head why an obese person might have a higher BMR than a normal weight person.
We should also keep in mind that fat tissue is a living, breathing organ. It isn't just dead weight - it's extremely metabolically active and plays a crucial role in numerous pathways that science is just beginning to understand.
Fat tissue produces, releases, amplifies, and regulates cellular signals (such as hormones), and all that activity requires energy. I would think its logical to assume that having increasing amounts of this metabolically active tissues requires increasing amounts of energy - hence the larger a person is, the FASTER their metabolism.
Speaking of faster metabolisms of the obese, perhaps that above normal metabolic rate can partially explain the decreased life-spans of the obese. Everyone says they wish they had a 'faster metabolism', but I think we forget that the faster the metabolism, the faster we age. But this is an entirely different subject...
Anyways. Back to the point.
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That's why you use a food scale, lol.0
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This is also a reason why we need to record every morsel that goes into our mouth as well as own a food scale(and ofcourse use it).
Earlier when i mentally calculated and ate only home made food and salad, i still gained 20 pounds in 4 months..i was stumped and guessed i had slow metabolism. Got my blood work and everything came back normal. Not sure if i was relieved or sad, because i was both :P
I then joined MFP and realized how much i was eating. Every morsel counts. a small coffee cake? no biggie...but its about 400 CALORIES..small salad? its ok..but i realized what i had was not a small salad, it was a huge bowl with loads of ranch in it.The list can go on and on. Fruits? No need to count it LOL
I have learnt so much about nutrition here, i will be forever grateful 0 -
This is also a reason why we need to record every morsel that goes into our mouth as well as own a food scale(and ofcourse use it).
Earlier when i mentally calculated and ate only home made food and salad, i still gained 20 pounds in 4 months..i was stumped and guessed i had slow metabolism. Got my blood work and everything came back normal. Not sure if i was relieved or sad, because i was both :P
I then joined MFP and realized how much i was eating. Every morsel counts. a small coffee cake? no biggie...but its about 400 CALORIES..small salad? its ok..but i realized what i had was not a small salad, it was a huge bowl with loads of ranch in it.The list can go on and on. Fruits? No need to count it LOL
I have learnt so much about nutrition here, i will be forever grateful
This.
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Bumping so I can check out the videos later...0
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So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
And this could be where genetics comes into play. I read a study recently that people who are very overweight or obese have a much greater instance of a genetic mutation that actually makes them feel hungry after eating, often leading them to overeat.
The study was a prompted by the fact that those who have weight loss surgery and lose weight very quickly can reverse this mutation. Children born to overweight women with the mutation often have the same mutation, but children born to the same woman after weight loss surgery do not. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Do you have a ref. to the study?
At the risk of getting slammed again, I fail to see how weight loss surgery would correct a genetic mutation.0 -
Thanks for the links, it's very interesting, BUT - there is more to weight control than calories in calories out. In the last year I have gradually upped my calories from 1800 - 2000 - 2200 - 2400 - 2600 and stayed the same weight without increasing my activity level…0
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It's important to note: If you truly have a "slow metabolism" ... then you most likely have an underactive thyroid, which would cause way more symptoms than JUST weight ...0
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So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
And this could be where genetics comes into play. I read a study recently that people who are very overweight or obese have a much greater instance of a genetic mutation that actually makes them feel hungry after eating, often leading them to overeat.
The study was a prompted by the fact that those who have weight loss surgery and lose weight very quickly can reverse this mutation. Children born to overweight women with the mutation often have the same mutation, but children born to the same woman after weight loss surgery do not. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Do you have a ref. to the study?
At the risk of getting slammed again, I fail to see how weight loss surgery would correct a genetic mutation.
This whole exchange made me laugh ... Thanks for brightening my day ..
P.S. I am also curious as to how weight loss surgery would change ones genetics ... because it won't. It will change that particular person's physiology, but not future generations.0 -
Two things...
I've got a friend who's one of those "I eat and eat and never weigh more than 105" people...and I admit that when we go out to lunch or whatever she eats just as much as anyone else. But I have no idea what she eats or doesn't eat when I'm not around. I've always assumed that she just enjoys being the special skinny snowflake that everyone else wants to be, so she exaggerates her food consumption. The fact that she brings it up all the time is a good clue that it's something she enjoys talking about and makes her feel good to be an object of envy.
Second, I remember reading a study many years ago that determined that the vast majority of people of a slim to healthy weight practice what they called "chronic restrained eating". In other words, they were mindful of what they ate and in what portions. Myself, I weighed between 120 and 150 for most of my adult life (up until I was about 40 years old) and maintained that weight only through restricting food and exercising. It certainly wasn't effortless.
So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
I don't know your friend, so I can't comment on what her motivation may be, and certainly some people do have that type of motivation (and I have known people like that, but they also believed it to be true that they ate so much because they never felt restricted).
But, just to understand a possible other side of it. I've always been small and slim. And I have experienced a lot of people making claims that I must never eat, I must have a very restrictive diet, I must have an ED, I was even accused of throwing my food up in a restaurant bathroom (I've never been bulimic and never forced myself to throw up in my life and definitely did not throw up that day and I hate throwing up), or I must never have any fun. Blah blah blah. Which, btw, all of that is insulting because I am healthy (mentally and physically), and I look healthy and fit (not sickly or underweight).
So, in those circumstances I know I have learned to preemptively defend myself, to make it clear, so no one gets any weird ideas (mostly on this website, and not usually much in real life, unless it appears to be an issue). And sometimes people will say I must be naturally slim and I go along with that because it's true that I always have been, so I have no comment on other people's weight struggles because it's none of my business, how could I know, it's not my experience. The reality is that I regulate my food intake well. I've always monitored my weight and using the mirror to do so, and I've never let it get above anything I felt uncomfortable with. But, I've also never gone on a low calorie diet as an adult (and I share that partly, so people know that level of restriction is not needed and also so people know I've never starved myself). I think there is a combination of factors. One is that I've always been very active with my fitness, and I am a dancer, and in addition to that I am generally a very active person in my day to day life. Sometimes I would eat a lot, but then I also would have times in which I was so busy and active I would miss meals. And I've always made sure to have portion control. Even though I want to eat more, I don't. I'm on here now, counting calories, and that is working great for me. So, obviously an awareness of calories is helpful to fitness goals. But, none of this means that I don't have fun or enjoy life. I enjoy life in many many ways. I also enjoy life in active ways and try to make choices that keep me active. I also eat treats and enjoy that. I just don't do that all the time. And also, I have heard people say that they like feeling full. I don't like feeling full. I don't like feeling hungry either. I like to feel fed.
And one other aspect is that while some people underestimate how much they eat, I also think sometimes people over-estimate how much they eat.
But, with that said, I only know what my own experience is. I know what I have done to manage my weight and fitness. But, it's no judgement on other people. I don't know what they need to do and how that differs and I don't know what their struggles are. And everyone has had various types of struggles, it's life.
Sometimes people make other people's weight and fitness habits a personal issue to them. But, really it's a personal issue to the individual's life and it's not really anyone else's business unless they are curious in a reasonably polite way. But, most people aren't walking around talking about how they stay slim, unless other people are commenting on it enough to cause them to feel they need to say something, and once it has been brought up enough the person may feel some defensiveness towards the people that bring it up. That's all.
P.S. I did not actually read the whole thread and don't really know what people are discussing (but I did watch the videos). These were just some thoughts I had and I had just kind of stumbled across that one thing.0 -
So maybe the question should be why it's easier for some people to control what they eat and why it's so much harder for others.
And this could be where genetics comes into play. I read a study recently that people who are very overweight or obese have a much greater instance of a genetic mutation that actually makes them feel hungry after eating, often leading them to overeat.
The study was a prompted by the fact that those who have weight loss surgery and lose weight very quickly can reverse this mutation. Children born to overweight women with the mutation often have the same mutation, but children born to the same woman after weight loss surgery do not. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Do you have a ref. to the study?
At the risk of getting slammed again, I fail to see how weight loss surgery would correct a genetic mutation.
This whole exchange made me laugh ... Thanks for brightening my day ..
P.S. I am also curious as to how weight loss surgery would change ones genetics ... because it won't. It will change that particular person's physiology, but not future generations.
Oh thank you!
Was beginning to feel like I was in some weird twilight zone! :laugh: 0
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