Love some guidance on my workout routine

BodyTemple23

Hi All,

I'd love some guidance on my workout routine. I usually do cardio followed by strength training. Here's what I do:

Sun: Hiking/Outdoors
Mon: 30 Min Elliptical + 50 Min Chest, Triceps, and Back Strength Training
Tue: 45 Min Spin Class + 35 Min Abs and Core + Stretch
Wed: 45 Min Spin Class + 30 Min Biceps, Triceps, Shoulders
Thu: 20 Min Stairmaster + 50 Min legs workout
Fri: 45 Min Pound Class (full body cardio + pilates) + 25 Min Abs and Core
Sat: Take it easy/Yoga

I'm trying to build muscles while losing 6% body fat (please note I said body fat; what it translates to in terms of weight loss doesn't matter). I eat healthy, prioritize protein, and stay within 1600 calories. I'm 5'4 and weigh 137 pounds.

Hobartlemagne

I'll contribute what I've learned with my own weightlifting experience:
I used to do a full-body weight regimen of 12 reps /3 sets of just about every exercise. Pretty standard stuff. During the covid years I lost all progress, and gained fat again. The first half of this year I lost 20 lbs and then began weight training again.
I took a completely different approach-
6 reps / 3 sets, weight at 75% of my one-rep-max*. This is heavy, hard work. Much more difficult than I did before. In the 2 months since I restarted, my strength is nearly back to where it was when I quit 4+ years ago.
As far as diet, I weigh about 175 and am eating 175g Protein daily, following the 1g per Pound approach. Im still counting calories, so Im reducing some carbs to make room in the budget for increased protein. Its pretty much a lazy keto diet.

*finding my 1-rep-max- I used weight machines. Select a weight that you know you cant do. Try as hard as possible to do the lift. If you cant, reduce weight 5lbs and repeat. As soon as you can move it once, you've found the 1-rep-max. Do your workout at 75% that weight. You dont have to repeat this test all the time- just raise your workout weight gradually as you gain strength.

ninerbuff

Building muscle and getting to 6% body fat oppose each other. One is anabolic while the other catabolic. So you have to choose one or the other. Building muscle means gaining weight, so you surplus to do that. Losing body fat means a calorie deficit. Now there is recomp, but it's a long process and results take a long time to notice.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

nossmf

Minor correction, the OP said "lose 6%" not "drop to 6%". As in go from 26% to 20%, for example. That said, the post by @ninerbuff remains valid.

As far as the OP's workout routine, my one suggestion would be to swap the Monday elliptical with the Thursday stairmaster, as doing a leg routine after elliptical will be a lot easier IMHO.

AnnPT77

I would be cautious about starting by trying to determine one rep max, if a relative beginner to strength training. It's common to have muscle imbalances, some muscle groups stronger than others even when both groups are involved in the same lift . . . starting at the high-weight end risks injury. Working up in weight will get a person to the same place, in a less risky way . . . it just takes a little more time. If a low weight feels easy for a rep/set range when using good form, go up in weight until the last reps are challenging. It shouldn't take a huge amount of time to find the right level when gradually increasing. Injury sets everything back. Most beginner programs start on the lighter end.

IMU, Some experts would avoid attempting the one-rep max experiment in someone without competitive goals; virtually all would put off a test until intermediate experience level at least.

OP, the program seems reasonable, as long as the strength training is challenging (takes focus to get the last couple of reps with good form, or similar). I agree with ninerbuff that working on both fat loss and muscle gain is a relatively slow thing, a caloric balancing act. But it's possible.

Pretty sure the strength training folks would tell you to do the lifting first, then the cardio, so that lifting gets your best energy. If adding muscle is your highest priority, I think that's right (even though I'm a cardio-priority gal myself).

I'm not sure you're hitting all the muscle groups enough times per week for good progress - I suspect not - but that would be a better question for the lifting experts.

I'm not sure what "prioritize protein" means. At 137 pounds (which is generically a healthy weight at 5'4"), 96 to 137 grams of protein daily would be a good range IMO. If you rely on plant sources of protein, getting a balanced set of essential amino acids daily is very important.

Best wishes!

Retroguy2000

75% 1RM should be 10 reps.

6 reps should be about 86% 1RM, which is more suited for strength training than muscle growth.

https://strengthlevel.com/one-rep-max-calculator

Retroguy2000

Re OP's post:

How close you are to lean now does matter. To build muscle in a deficit it helps to be a new lifter, to have a small deficit, and to be quite overweight currently. It will be easier gaining muscle going from 25% bf to 20% (as a guy) than from 15% to 10%. And even that won't be easy. I don't know how lean 5'4" and 137 pounds is. You didn't say, but I assume female.

For muscle growth in general, do cardio after the resistance training, not before. Other than 5-10 mins warm-up. Or do the cardio in a separate session. This gives you max energy and power for the lifting. Agreed about doing elliptical instead of stairs before legs if you continue with cardio first.

You may have sufficient volume there for legs and abs, but not for chest and back. And that's fine, if that's your specialization preference. However if it isn't, then I'd switch out the isolation work for more pressing and rowing, e.g. a horizontal row will target most of your back plus rear delts plus some biceps, compared to a biceps curl only doing that. For growth, the sweet spot is about 10-15 working sets per muscle group per week, in 2-3 sessions.

tomcustombuilder

You won't build any muscle with that routine. Pick muscle maintenance and fatloss or muscle building. Plus, do cardio after weights plus your weight training program sucks for adding muscle. You want to get on a good and proven weight training program. You need to be hitting muscles at least 2x per week and with the proper amount of sets and reps.

This also works for muscle maintenance when losing fat. There are some volume changes and diet changes however the weight training program for both is basically the same

nossmf

@tomcustombuilder your suggestions are great suggestions, but do not qualify as mandatory rules. Especially your demand to hit each muscle 2x per week, which is something I adhere to but is not required for a great physique. Just ask @ninerbuff who does each body part once per week, and nobody can deny he looks great.

As far as cardio-before-weights or weights-before-cardio, that largely depends on the goals of the person. Whichever is done first will usually have more energy and thus better training performance, so if the goal is to mostly lose weight but have muscles, do cardio first; if the goal is to build muscle with enough cardio for heart health, do cardio after or on a separate day entirely.

Theoldguy1

ninerbuff wrote: »

Building muscle and getting to 6% body fat oppose each other. One is anabolic while the other catabolic. So you have to choose one or the other. Building muscle means gaining weight, so you surplus to do that. Losing body fat means a calorie deficit. Now there is recomp, but it's a long process and results take a long time to notice.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

If the poster has excess BF, there is a surplus of stored energy that can be used to build muscle, the OP does not have to gain weight.

BodyTemple23

@AnnPT77, thank you. You always catch the right intent for sharing the post. My intent was for someone to catch what muscle groups I was not hitting. Can you please share your POV, even if it is just something you suspect?

My priority is to lose 6% body fat, hopefully without losing muscle. My midsection could use some work. I like cardio first because it warms my muscles and helps me perform better when lifting weights. Maybe it's just psychological.

Great suggestion, everyone! Thank you! I sincerely appreciate all your comments. If there are any specific YouTube video channels or exercise programs to follow, please share. Thanks so much!!

AnnPT77

BodyTemple23 wrote: »

@AnnPT77, thank you. You always catch the right intent for sharing the post. My intent was for someone to catch what muscle groups I was not hitting. Can you please share your POV, even if it is just something you suspect?

My priority is to lose 6% body fat, hopefully without losing muscle. My midsection could use some work. I like cardio first because it warms my muscles and helps me perform better when lifting weights. Maybe it's just psychological.

Great suggestion, everyone! Thank you! I sincerely appreciate all your comments. If there are any specific YouTube video channels or exercise programs to follow, please share. Thanks so much!!

I think you can piece some of that (bolded) together from what the more lifting-knowledgeable guys suggested above. I'm pretty strong on cardio questions, not great on weight lifting questions beyond the very basics. Personally, I'd encourage you to follow some professionally-designed program, such as one in this thread, rather than creating one on your own:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

Quoting a couple parts of posts above that I think start to answer your bolded question:

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

You may have sufficient volume there for legs and abs, but not for chest and back. And that's fine, if that's your specialization preference. However if it isn't, then I'd switch out the isolation work for more pressing and rowing, e.g. a horizontal row will target most of your back plus rear delts plus some biceps, compared to a biceps curl only doing that. For growth, the sweet spot is about 10-15 working sets per muscle group per week, in 2-3 sessions.

nossmf wrote: »

As far as the OP's workout routine, my one suggestion would be to swap the Monday elliptical with the Thursday stairmaster, as doing a leg routine after elliptical will be a lot easier IMHO.

There's a bit of a dispute up above about whether it's important for you to hit each muscle group 2x a week or not. My ignorant impression is that a once per week program is typically a more advanced kind of program, but 2-3x per week maybe more suitable for beginners.

You haven't said whether you're a relative beginner (as I might guess contextually) or intermediate/advanced. Indicating how long you've been lifting regularly might help knowledgeable folks give you more concrete advice.

Ditto for the question of what your current body fat percent is, even if it's just an estimate. It will be very approximate, but you can get a very basic, very rough estimate from a calculator like this one:

https://www.calculator.net/body-fat-calculator.html

If I had to guess (as a woman of similar size), I'd say the average 5'4" 137 pound woman would likely be in the upper 20s to 30ish percent body fat, but that's just a guess based on statistical averages. You're an individual, and individuals vary from average.

Finally, another thing that might elicit more detailed, helpful answers would be if you say what exercises you're doing when you say things like chest, triceps, back, abs/core, biceps, triceps, shoulders, legs. You have some pretty long time spans in there for some of your lifting sessions, so it sounds like there might be a lot of different exercises? It isn't obvious whether you're doing the most effective, efficient specific things to advance your goals.

tomcustombuilder

nossmf wrote: »

@tomcustombuilder your suggestions are great suggestions, but do not qualify as mandatory rules. Especially your demand to hit each muscle 2x per week, which is something I adhere to but is not required for a great physique. Just ask @ninerbuff who does each body part once per week, and nobody can deny he looks great.

As far as cardio-before-weights or weights-before-cardio, that largely depends on the goals of the person. Whichever is done first will usually have more energy and thus better training performance, so if the goal is to mostly lose weight but have muscles, do cardio first; if the goal is to build muscle with enough cardio for heart health, do cardio after or on a separate day entirely.

nothing is mandatory however some ways are just generally better.

2x has been proven time and time again to be superior overall to bro splits. Someone may have a decent physique however maybe it would be better with a different approach?

To maximize weight training I have never known anyone that was serious that did cardio first unless it was a short warmup. All do cardio after or on a day they’re not lifting this is a 50 year observation.

It all comes down what a certain person feels is working for them whether it’s an optimal approach or not is here nor there.

OP also isn’t strength training legs which is unfortunate probably due to the cardio before weights.

BodyTemple23

@Retroguy2000 sorry I missed your suggestions earlier, and thank you!

What exactly do you mean by 10-15 working sets per muscle group when you say this? "For growth, the sweet spot is about 10-15 working sets per muscle group per week, in 2-3 sessions."

Can you give an example, please?

Also, when you say I don't have enough volume for my chest and back, why do you say that? I'm doing legs one day and chest and back another day. Is that because classes like spinning also work legs?

AnnPT77

tomcustombuilder wrote: »

nossmf wrote: »

@tomcustombuilder your suggestions are great suggestions, but do not qualify as mandatory rules. Especially your demand to hit each muscle 2x per week, which is something I adhere to but is not required for a great physique. Just ask @ninerbuff who does each body part once per week, and nobody can deny he looks great.

As far as cardio-before-weights or weights-before-cardio, that largely depends on the goals of the person. Whichever is done first will usually have more energy and thus better training performance, so if the goal is to mostly lose weight but have muscles, do cardio first; if the goal is to build muscle with enough cardio for heart health, do cardio after or on a separate day entirely.

nothing is mandatory however some ways are just generally better.

2x has been proven time and time again to be superior overall to bro splits. Someone may have a decent physique however maybe it would be better with a different approach?

To maximize weight training I have never known anyone that was serious that did cardio first unless it was a short warmup. All do cardio after or on a day they’re not lifting this is a 50 year observation.

It all comes down what a certain person feels is working for them whether it’s an optimal approach or not is here nor there.

OP also isn’t strength training legs which is unfortunate probably due to the cardio before weights.

Yes she is: 50 minutes on Thursdays. After stairmaster, which nossmf already observed is likely not the best combination with leg day.

tomcustombuilder

AnnPT77 wrote: »

tomcustombuilder wrote: »

nossmf wrote: »

@tomcustombuilder your suggestions are great suggestions, but do not qualify as mandatory rules. Especially your demand to hit each muscle 2x per week, which is something I adhere to but is not required for a great physique. Just ask @ninerbuff who does each body part once per week, and nobody can deny he looks great.

As far as cardio-before-weights or weights-before-cardio, that largely depends on the goals of the person. Whichever is done first will usually have more energy and thus better training performance, so if the goal is to mostly lose weight but have muscles, do cardio first; if the goal is to build muscle with enough cardio for heart health, do cardio after or on a separate day entirely.

nothing is mandatory however some ways are just generally better.

2x has been proven time and time again to be superior overall to bro splits. Someone may have a decent physique however maybe it would be better with a different approach?

To maximize weight training I have never known anyone that was serious that did cardio first unless it was a short warmup. All do cardio after or on a day they’re not lifting this is a 50 year observation.

It all comes down what a certain person feels is working for them whether it’s an optimal approach or not is here nor there.

OP also isn’t strength training legs which is unfortunate probably due to the cardio before weights.

Yes she is: 50 minutes on Thursdays. After stairmaster, which nossmf already observed is likely not the best combination with leg day.

Got it musta missed that and yes leg training after a big stairmaster session and legs are too fried to strength train legs properly.

BodyTemple23

@AnnPT77 Yes, I'm a female at the beginner level in weight lifting. I'm mostly doing some basic exercises while gradually increasing the weights.

Here's a sample of exercises I'm doing:

Biceps and shoulders: 10 pounds weights variations mostly bicep curls, hammer curls, shoulder presses
Triceps: 15-17.5 pounds free weights; 25-30 pounds when doing with a machine

Chest and back: I do chest presses, bench presses, chin-assisted dips, and back deltoids using the machines available at my gym. Chest about 35-40 pounds, and back about 40-60 pounds.

Legs: I do inner and outer thighs at about 130 pounds, a leg press at about 100 pounds, and back leg curls for hamstrings and glutes at about 40 pounds. I know I can go heavier, but I only have a little strength. I need to add more targeted exercises for the glutes and hips. I'm also not doing deadlifts and squats at the moment. To your point, I injured myself because my instructor pushed me to do deeper squats and hurt myself. That kept me from lifting for several months. I do get some lunges in my pound class, but I need to do more.

Abs and core: I don't use weights, but maybe I could. I just use body weight for planks and such.

Time seems to fly when I'm at the gym. I manage about 5-6 machines fully in 50 minutes, but I know I can do better. I'm eager to improve and I'm open to any advice or suggestions you might have.

I have been working out for a while, but probably not my optimal best. I did recruit personal trainers, who didn't do me any good.

AnnPT77

BodyTemple23 wrote: »

@AnnPT77 Yes, I'm a female at the beginner level in weight lifting. I'm mostly doing some basic exercises while gradually increasing the weights.

Here's a sample of exercises I'm doing:

Biceps and shoulders: 10 pounds weights variations mostly bicep curls, hammer curls, shoulder presses
Triceps: 15-17.5 pounds free weights; 25-30 pounds when doing with a machine

Chest and back: I do chest presses, bench presses, chin-assisted dips, and back deltoids using the machines available at my gym. Chest about 35-40 pounds, and back about 40-60 pounds.

Legs: I do inner and outer thighs at about 130 pounds, a leg press at about 100 pounds, and back leg curls for hamstrings and glutes at about 40 pounds. I know I can go heavier, but I only have a little strength. I need to add more targeted exercises for the glutes and hips. I'm also not doing deadlifts and squats at the moment. To your point, I injured myself because my instructor pushed me to do deeper squats and hurt myself. That kept me from lifting for several months. I do get some lunges in my pound class, but I need to do more.

Abs and core: I don't use weights, but maybe I could. I just use body weight for planks and such.

Time seems to fly when I'm at the gym. I manage about 5-6 machines fully in 50 minutes, but I know I can do better. I'm eager to improve and I'm open to any advice or suggestions you might have.

I have been working out for a while, but probably not my optimal best. I did recruit personal trainers, who didn't do me any good.

Thank you for taking the time to reply in detail!

Truly, I shouldn't be giving anyone detailed lifting program advice: Not my wheelhouse!

But I hope maybe some of the guys above may have more expert feedback for you. I know they got to disagreeing a bit amongst themselves on a small tangent about body fat and calorie deficits/surpluses (which wasn't your question), but they're all knowledgeable, experienced guys who are very helpful on lifting threads here.

It does sound like you have a mix of compound and isolation exercises, which is good. I can understand proceeding cautiously after an injury, too. I'm sorry your trainer worked out so very poorly for you!

Retroguy2000

@BodyTemple23

Re this,

"For growth, the sweet spot is about 10-15 working sets per muscle group per week, in 2-3 sessions."

Yeah, you might be getting enough legs volume with all the hiking + stairmaster + dedicated leg day.

For back, the only thing I saw you mention was "back deltoids machine", one day per week. As a beginner, you should be wanting at least 10 working sets per week in 2-3 sessions. Yes, you can build muscle on the "bro split" doing a muscle group one day per week, but it's less optimal than doing the same volume spread out with more frequency. Which sounds like common sense, e.g. if your chest is fully recovered after 2-3 days, why wait another 4-5 days to do anything?

A working set is going to be close to failure, say about 2 reps from failure. As a beginner, you don't need to go to failure. Save that for after you have more experience. However, you do need to know where failure is, and you need to be aiming to progress in reps and/or weight every week. I remember a conversation on here some time back with a woman saying she was doing 10 reps of shoulder press I think it was, but she didn't actually know where failure was, it was just habit. I said try one time to failure, i.e. you cannot push the weight back, or you cannot maintain good form. And she reported back she could do 16 reps I think. Which means she should have been doing sets to 14 or so, or better yet, going up in weight and getting 10-12 reps.

A warm-up set is not a working set. You probably only need the warm-ups before doing that body part for the first time.

e.g. myself, a guy and with more training age than yourself, this is my home back+chest workout every four days:

5 sets dumbbell press, last set to failure and with lower weight than previous sets
4 sets barbell row
3 sets chest fly's with a band (cables would be better, if I had access)
1 set weighted pull-ups
3 sets chest supported dumbbell row, last set to failure
And I finish with some lateral raises for shoulders. Maybe in a month I'll add more pull-ups sets and reduce the chest supported row sets. It's a good idea to be doing both horizontal and vertical row. If you're in the gym, lat pulldown machine is a good option.

So that's 8 sets each for back and chest every 4 days. Every set has adequate rest, so my cardio is ready. I don't time the rest, I don't time for 60 seconds and then inevitably do less volume as a result. So the rest times may be 2-4 minutes depending. I'm also probably older than you

I hope that helps? If you need more, just ask.

BodyTemple23

@Retroguy2000
Oh, what I'm doing is called the "Bro Split"?! Interesting, I had to Google that. Lol

Thank you for the detailed advice! I'm planning to incorporate chest and back exercises on a separate day. I'm thinking of doing this in a 20-minute window, either at home or during breaks. I try to do incline pushups at a nearby park when I go for walks. Also, I do a few more back exercises, like for lats, but I listed only deltoids as a sample. The chin-assisted dip works the chest, shoulders, and upper back. I mean, I'm saying this as I typically see the images of the muscle groups that the machine targets based on the stickers on the machines; I hope they are correct. Lol.

A few questions that come to mind:

Just so we are on the same page. In my mind, about 8-12 reps are considered one working set, so are you suggesting about 10-15 working sets targeting a muscle group from various angles with different exercises/variations? Is that correct? If I'm lifting heavy, I do about 6-8 reps because that's all I manage as muscles start to burn. I don't time the rest, but when I do lower reps per set, I do more sets, like 4-5 sets with higher weights.

The last set to failure: I found a video that explains it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27waZSngzW8

Is this a good explanation?

I appreciate your advice. Thanks so much again!

Thanks, @AnnPT77, for your responses!

Retroguy2000

You can build muscle at any rep range from 5-30. However, you'll probably build more strength closer to 5 reps, and more muscle at higher numbers. This all assumes close to failure, about 0-2 reps from failure (as a beginner you're fine with 2 reps from failure). 10-15 reps is ideal imo because a) cardio isn't usually a limiting factor, and b) it's easier to judge where failure is than say at 25 or 30 reps.

As a beginner, you can grow with weekly 10 sets per group (assuming all the usual boxes ticked like nutrition, calories, protein, progressive overload, etc.), and over time you should be willing and able to increase that volume. So e.g. 4 working sets for that muscle group 3x per week, or 5-6 sets 2x per week, etc. Yes, the more sets you do, the more growth you can get, but it's not linear. It's diminishing returns, and it costs you in time and systemic fatigue.

You don't need to worry too much about "hitting the muscle from different angles". Just do a couple of exercises for a muscle group on any one day, rather than three or four. It saves you time waiting for another machine if you're at the gym, getting set up, etc. Like, the chest basically does upper arm adduction. Pick a press variant you like, ideally 15 or 30 degrees on the bench rather than flat, and pick a cable fly or dips, and you're covered. Especially as a beginner.

As you've probably seen, you aren't doing the bro split as such. It's just an example of training a muscle group only once per week being sub-optimal.

You can also follow a pre-existing program like Strong Lifts or similar for six months or so.