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Is the Fitness community becoming toxic?
ninerbuff
Posts: 48,916 Member
in Debate Club
With so much media out there now, and so many influencers advocating about how they work out and how they get their results, are you finding out that some of it is becoming toxic and even dangerous?
For me, many young male influencers who are jacked are using PEDs like it's nothing and get followings by young males wanting to do the same. Being in the game now for years, and being naturally BUT exposed to PEDs around me my whole bodybuilding life, I know the consequences and am seeing them result in many early deaths at just 40-60 years of age.
And of course the other is with people acting like *kitten* when they are trying to record themselves working out and can't get a good Tik Tok or Instagram shot when people cross their cameras or get in the way.
As a group fitness trainer, I would hear many a female (mind you most of them are in their 30s and up) talking nice to someone in class face to face, but as soon as they turn their back, they are being gossiped about with others in the same class.
Now I know this happens just about any work place, but people who work out are voluntarily doing it to better themselves while at work, people are there to earn a paycheck. You'd think that there'd be more support than the petty crap that's carried on in places where they don't give a *kitten* about their health.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
For me, many young male influencers who are jacked are using PEDs like it's nothing and get followings by young males wanting to do the same. Being in the game now for years, and being naturally BUT exposed to PEDs around me my whole bodybuilding life, I know the consequences and am seeing them result in many early deaths at just 40-60 years of age.
And of course the other is with people acting like *kitten* when they are trying to record themselves working out and can't get a good Tik Tok or Instagram shot when people cross their cameras or get in the way.
As a group fitness trainer, I would hear many a female (mind you most of them are in their 30s and up) talking nice to someone in class face to face, but as soon as they turn their back, they are being gossiped about with others in the same class.
Now I know this happens just about any work place, but people who work out are voluntarily doing it to better themselves while at work, people are there to earn a paycheck. You'd think that there'd be more support than the petty crap that's carried on in places where they don't give a *kitten* about their health.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0
Replies
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I think it might always have been toxic - it’s just more widespread with social media. Certainly when I was a teenager / in my 20s I was body-shamed in gyms (I was maybe 12 pounds overweight) and I was shamed at school for being lazy / not trying hard enough.
Nowadays I’m more likely to get shamed for lifting and having naturally big leg muscles so I can’t win. I guess age means it bothers me much less, in fact I personally don’t care what people think about me, but I do worry about younger people being sucked into negative or dangerous behaviours by social media or societal pressure to look a certain way.
There are some IG posts showing “true Olympian” physiques and they’re great, as they show all body types in different sports. But that isn’t the norm.7 -
Unsure about the fitness community as a whole. As a person with a few different fitness clubs and memberships- I have not had that experience. Maybe I am just lucky? Maybe I go to a place with like minded individuals? Dunno. I’ve only been surrounded by really supportive trainers and staff and the other members either stay quiet and do their thing or are very cordial. I rarely see anyone doing selfies or videotaping .. and in those rare instances it is out of the way and self contained on themselves. Group classes also seem very respectful and friendly. 🤷♀️
Maybe culture is different at different locations and clubs?
I see more pejorative language in MFP to be honest
YMMV
Re social media - there are bullies and snake oil salesmen - but hasn’t that always been the case? I think social media can be educational actually by having more exposure.
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Could be that times you go as well. I find that mid morning people (usually because it's SAHM's and older crowd, tend to be much more cordial, but the late afernoon/evening crowds are much younger and seem to bring out others that really look to be noticed, so I see more selfies, recordings and ego lifters.SafariGalNYC wrote: »Unsure about the fitness community as a whole. As a person with a few different fitness clubs and memberships- I have not had that experience. Maybe I am just lucky? Maybe I go to a place with like minded individuals? Dunno. I’ve only been surrounded by really supportive trainers and staff and the other members either stay quiet and do their thing or are very cordial. I rarely see anyone doing selfies or videotaping .. and in those rare instances it is out of the way and self contained on themselves. Group classes also seem very respectful and friendly. 🤷♀️
Maybe culture is different at different locations and clubs?
I see more pejorative language in MFP to be honest
YMMV
Re social media - there are bullies and snake oil salesmen - but hasn’t that always been the case? I think social media can be educational actually by having more exposure.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I think the particular kind of gym you go to makes a difference, as well as the time. I work out at a university gym that's closely partnered with a hospital. Anyone can join, but not a lot of people outside the medical campus know it's there. It's a great workout facility, but also used by hospital and outpatient clinics for various kinds of rehab programs that the wellness center runs for those clinic patients. I've never seen an influencer filming at the gym (or anywhere, for that matter). That was true when I'd lift at 5 am and true at 5 pm when I'd go do cardio.
I think the fitness industry overall has always been pretty toxic, especially for women. Alan Aragon, anyone? I'd say a lot of the Robert Kennedy publications like Oxygen and Muscle Mag did no favors to regular fitness enthusiasts by presenting clearly PED-using models as natural bodybuilders. Because of course Ronnie Coleman or Cory Everson got so big eating raw eggs and chicken breast <eye roll>. Casual lifters wouldn't of course try to get their overall size, but the implication was that a bro split and some protein shakes would easily build the kind of body people that read those magazines were looking for. Not too different from fashion modeling or even social media today.
Yes, I'm old school.5 -
Could be that times you go as well. I find that mid morning people (usually because it's SAHM's and older crowd, tend to be much more cordial, but the late afernoon/evening crowds are much younger and seem to bring out others that really look to be noticed, so I see more selfies, recordings and ego lifters.SafariGalNYC wrote: »Unsure about the fitness community as a whole. As a person with a few different fitness clubs and memberships- I have not had that experience. Maybe I am just lucky? Maybe I go to a place with like minded individuals? Dunno. I’ve only been surrounded by really supportive trainers and staff and the other members either stay quiet and do their thing or are very cordial. I rarely see anyone doing selfies or videotaping .. and in those rare instances it is out of the way and self contained on themselves. Group classes also seem very respectful and friendly. 🤷♀️
Maybe culture is different at different locations and clubs?
I see more pejorative language in MFP to be honest
YMMV
Re social media - there are bullies and snake oil salesmen - but hasn’t that always been the case? I think social media can be educational actually by having more exposure.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I had to look up SAHM lol
Typically I’m a late bird - 4p-10p but it’s downtown NYC and Hamptons (weekends I’m mornings) so people are usually doing their own thing with ear buds or getting run around on beach sand and probably better mood outdoor.0 -
What's really sad now is that teen's who are barely past puberty an getting on PED's or SARMS because they see so many influencer's with great physiques doing them. I've seen it and hear about it amongst teenage boys all the time. Lol, only unless we catch them injecting or using them on the premises, can we do anything about it. But you can see the side effects of back acne, sudden growth, aggressiveness towards others, etc. In fact we had to ban a member for being aggressive towards one of our employees when he was just asking that he rerack his weights after finishing.I think the particular kind of gym you go to makes a difference, as well as the time. I work out at a university gym that's closely partnered with a hospital. Anyone can join, but not a lot of people outside the medical campus know it's there. It's a great workout facility, but also used by hospital and outpatient clinics for various kinds of rehab programs that the wellness center runs for those clinic patients. I've never seen an influencer filming at the gym (or anywhere, for that matter). That was true when I'd lift at 5 am and true at 5 pm when I'd go do cardio.
I think the fitness industry overall has always been pretty toxic, especially for women. Alan Aragon, anyone? I'd say a lot of the Robert Kennedy publications like Oxygen and Muscle Mag did no favors to regular fitness enthusiasts by presenting clearly PED-using models as natural bodybuilders. Because of course Ronnie Coleman or Cory Everson got so big eating raw eggs and chicken breast <eye roll>. Casual lifters wouldn't of course try to get their overall size, but the implication was that a bro split and some protein shakes would easily build the kind of body people that read those magazines were looking for. Not too different from fashion modeling or even social media today.
Yes, I'm old school.
These kids have NO IDEA what consequences are and mourn some of the people that died in say their 30's and 40's because of PED usage rather then figure out it's the drugs that contributed to their death. They all say the same thing too. "I'm only going to use it xxxx time then get off". And it doesn't happen because once someone gets then gets off and starts shrinking and losing strength, male ego takes over and they get back on. And those that get off and stay off seem to have mental depression afterward. Over a 20 years ago, I sat and thought about all the people I knew and am still friends with from gym days in the 80's-90's and how some aren't alive anymore from juicing along with the ones who were natty's like me still lifting and looking close to what they were back then. And was thankful I was so broke back then because in my 20's I wanted to join them using gear, but just couldn't afford it.
In the late 90's prohormones were available and I tried them for like a year till they got banned. And can tell you I got stronger and little bigger. But of course there wasn't any studies to show side effects over time. Luckily for me, I haven't had any issues with liver, kidneys, lungs, heart, etc. but who's to say if it was still legal and I was on them that there wouldn't be now?
And so of course while I do get accolades for my fitness based on my age and kids always telling me they hope they are like me at my age, I tell them that if they are on the stuff that they may not live to see my age if they continue.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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There's toxicity in every community, even at the church I attend to from time to time.
6 -
I think social media just makes the toxicity more in-your-face.
It also makes discussion of what is and is not toxic more visible.
I remember back in the early 80’s many of the guys at my husband’s dojo had a “no pain no gain” attitude, and encouraged stuff like eating nothing but water with lemon juice and cayenne for three or more days straight.
He was really into that stuff. Until I put my foot down and told him he really shouldn’t do it anymore. It made him so hangry he nearly stabbed me with a fork during the first meal after one of these BS fasts. (to be fair I did reach out to taste something on his plate. But…. He really overreacted)
Plus he looked like death warmed over by the second day. I could tell it was really not good for him. And he was doing it every two months. Really not healthy.
But those types of disordered diet ideas were everywhere back then.
Helen Gurley Brown advocated a diet in Vogue that featured a bottle of wine daily, along with a few eggs, and not much else.
A. Whole. Bottle. Of. Wine.
It doesn’t get much more toxic than that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_and_wine_diet#:~:text=The egg and wine diet was first popularized in Helen,710 ml) bottle of wine.
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I feel like it's mostly the online fitness culture that is particularly toxic. I've never experienced that level of toxicity at a gym, or anywhere else, really. Mainly online. But, the internet promotes that kind of toxicity, because it increases engagement. We hate it, but at the same time we love it. Nobody wants to hear about slow gains over years, progressive overload. And we all want to hear about the magic new trick that will improve our bodies overnight. And we love, even more, to hear about how we're "better" than everyone else because we've made more gains. And even more than that, we love to tell other people that they are less than us because they're not making as good of gains. But, we're too cowardly to do this in real life, so they mostly do it online.2
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Personally from years of involvement, I didn't see teen boys taking steroids much. Maybe 1 out of 50 at most back then. TODAY I wouldn't be shocked if it was 3 out of 10. Especially because if you know how to obtain them online (which is entirely risky because it could be totally contaminated), it allows access. And teenage boys are brain dead when it comes to consequences regardless how dangerous as long as they get results and the attention from females.Hangry_catapilar wrote: »I think that social media is just exposing that side of it, making steroids etc. easier to access too, but it’s always been there.. as for the biatching women.. it’s always been a thing everywhere. Personally I hate it and let it go in one ear and out the other and would rather not be dragged into it .
It's really concerning to me because I've seen how it can really wreck a person's life.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 2 -
My former gym manager 4 years ago started taking them and now competes at 26 years old (about the time I was doing it too) and he's so addicted to how they make him feel. And he's a really good guy and funny as hell, but did notice he started getting a little short tempered. I really hope that he starts to realize that competitive bodybuilding ISN'T a healthy thing to do. The rigors of what you put your body through and what it does to you internally will show 15-20 years down the road. Kidney, liver and heart issues being the main.Hangry_catapilar wrote: »
Ive seen how it destroys people’s lives too and if guys think its gonna get them girls the results are usually they lose the girls because of the side effects of taking them or kill themselves. Its very sad how it can destroy people so young.
Personally from years of involvement, I didn't see teen boys taking steroids much. Maybe 1 out of 50 at most back then. TODAY I wouldn't be shocked if it was 3 out of 10. Especially because if you know how to obtain them online (which is entirely risky because it could be totally contaminated), it allows access. And teenage boys are brain dead when it comes to consequences regardless how dangerous as long as they get results and the attention from females.Hangry_catapilar wrote: »I think that social media is just exposing that side of it, making steroids etc. easier to access too, but it’s always been there.. as for the biatching women.. it’s always been a thing everywhere. Personally I hate it and let it go in one ear and out the other and would rather not be dragged into it .
It's really concerning to me because I've seen how it can really wreck a person's life.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I think the particular kind of gym you go to makes a difference, as well as the time. I work out at a university gym that's closely partnered with a hospital. Anyone can join, but not a lot of people outside the medical campus know it's there. It's a great workout facility, but also used by hospital and outpatient clinics for various kinds of rehab programs that the wellness center runs for those clinic patients. I've never seen an influencer filming at the gym (or anywhere, for that matter).
This is exactly my gym, too, except it’s wholely hospital owned. Clientele skews older, lovely manners, scrupulously polite, and thank God, they finally got hospital personnel to stop wearing scrubs into the gym. 🤢
People would look at you like you had three heads if you tried to film in our gym. And you do NOT film in the pool area or you have several fierce, hostile women jumping down your throat. I’ve seen it and it’s not pretty.
I don’t think steroids are even in the radar at this gym, lol.
I am fairly new to gym culture. I was at a competitive gym for a couple years when I first started weight loss and exercise, but it was unusual because it was owned by a woman who was in her early 70’s. Her husband was a multi time world champ. People came, intrigued, because he worked out there, but she was the reason they stayed. She would not tolerate steroids on the premises, and was privately dismissive of those who she judged to use. Inappropriate behavior to female members as well as women behaving provocatively towards male members brought a swift response. Despite being worn (but meticulously well maintained) equipment and an un-airconditioned cinder block building, members would drive miles to train there. Want to film yourself? She’d do it for you half the time and you’d have recorded either an earful of encouragement or commentary on what to work on.
Most the guys filming were doing it to review their form, not to post online anyway.
The whole clientele were very welcoming of all ability levels. No judgment.
Both gyms were completely different feel from LA Fitness, Workout Anytime, and World Gym (best of the three). I worked out at all three while still obese, but before the days of insta and TikTok.
For the record, the mood on MFP seems to have changed. It seems tenser, more combative,’people are demanding quicker fixes. New user yesterday wants to be “thin” by the time she leaves for a cruise in mid-September. Someone else was netting 800 calories a day to “lean out and build muscle”. That kind of thing. Scary, unrealistic posts. They’ve been there since I’ve joined, but seems that’s the bulk of them these days.
People have this mental thing that they can download a free app, set up an account, not even enter goals or anything and expect not only for people to do the homework for them, but that the mere act of downloading should create some cosmic weight loss- because they want it to be so.
I’m finding my own responses becoming snappish and snarky. And freaking repetitive. I’m starting to hate the sound of my own voice, and seeing why some frequent posters choose to drop off.
And after some folks (all the people on this thread included) pour effort into responses from
New users. , they never even come back to read the damn replies.
It’s turning into an “I’m so fat, I’m so pitiful” whinefest on the intro boards.
Oh wow. Did I mention snappish?
Also noticing some …infighting?..territorialness?…. on the boards between users I haven’t noticed before, and regret seeing.9 -
springlering62 wrote: »I think the particular kind of gym you go to makes a difference, as well as the time. I work out at a university gym that's closely partnered with a hospital. Anyone can join, but not a lot of people outside the medical campus know it's there. It's a great workout facility, but also used by hospital and outpatient clinics for various kinds of rehab programs that the wellness center runs for those clinic patients. I've never seen an influencer filming at the gym (or anywhere, for that matter).
<snip>
For the record, the mood on MFP seems to have changed. It seems tenser, more combative,’people are demanding quicker fixes. New user yesterday wants to be “thin” by the time she leaves for a cruise in mid-September. Someone else was netting 800 calories a day to “lean out and build muscle”. That kind of thing. Scary, unrealistic posts. They’ve been there since I’ve joined, but seems that’s the bulk of them these days.
People have this mental thing that they can download a free app, set up an account, not even enter goals or anything and expect not only for people to do the homework for them, but that the mere act of downloading should create some cosmic weight loss- because they want it to be so.
I’m finding my own responses becoming snappish and snarky. And freaking repetitive. I’m starting to hate the sound of my own voice, and seeing why some frequent posters choose to drop off.
And after some folks (all the people on this thread included) pour effort into responses from
New users. , they never even come back to read the damn replies.
It’s turning into an “I’m so fat, I’m so pitiful” whinefest on the intro boards.
Oh wow. Did I mention snappish?
Also noticing some …infighting?..territorialness?…. on the boards between users I haven’t noticed before, and regret seeing.
The boards are definitely becoming a different place than they used to be. I think the influx of "one-time wonders" has worn on the ever-shrinking group of regular posters. There's very little discussion about things any more, just the usual essays on why or why not to count exercise calories and whether you'll die of insulin resistance if you eat a piece of bread outside your fasting hours, or whatever. When there is discussion, the regulars all know each other's position on things so everything just ends up being shouted into the ether because nobody is changing anyone else's opinion and there's no new blood coming in to shake up the discussion.
And it's pretty obvious that there's not likely to be a lot of new posters. From what I've seen, the newsfeed people that tried to switch to the boards have mostly drifted away because of the lack of interest and interaction here. And that's a direct funnel of potential new users that are already engaged with the MFP platform. I can't imagine that there would be much more retention from brand new users that aren't already accommodating to MFP's quirks and foibles.
I know that there are some people working very hard to keep the boards going, and I commend them for that. Despite that though, I will be very surprised if these boards exist in a year. Even the definitely not bots "people" that come through and post "contact support" or "great idea" don't post as often, which seems significant somehow. I do however admit that I'm with some of the more conspiratorially minded folks that suspect MFP might be turning into a venture capital write off, so take my thoughts on that for what they're worth.
I guess change is the only thing that stays the same.3 -
@COGypsy I deliberately avoided the newsfeed word.
The people who’ve emailed and messaged me what a struggle it’s been to lose it. I had enough “not bot” friends that my IRL contact info was out there.
I’m frustrated so many friends have left that I can’t @ summon people I know have great advice for specific needs. They didn’t post as often as some, but did when asked to.
In the positive side, recently I’m seeing some posters who’ve been silent for a while are returning to the boards.
2 -
Generally, the internet culture as a whole - all topic areas - is pretty toxic IMO. I'd observe that it only takes a small percentage of toxic participants to poison the well. That small percent discourages newbies (short run via interpersonal toxicity, long run by exploiting them), and drives away decent people (by bullying and negativity).
I'm sure some gyms are toxic, too, though I have limited exposure. I wouldn't stick with one that seemed to have a high percentage of toxic people, but haven't had to deal with that.
That said, my personal "fitness community" isn't remotely toxic: Quite the opposite, in fact.
My core "fitness culture" is my rowing club, and particularly the ones I row with regularly. We socialize together, encourage each other, help out new members, and provide extra help to people who are temporarily struggling (like less-naturally-athletic new members, people recovering from illness/injury/surgery, etc.).
Beyond that I do some stuff at the Y. Even though I'm a less regular participant there than I was pre-pandemic, I still have supportive friends from that time, strangers are generally friendly when I do stop in, etc.
Both of these things are all-ages, the rowing club adults (late teens to 70s, mostly), the Y literally toddlers to quite elderly folks. Everyone seems to get along.
I've seen zero toxicity in the rowing club. I haven't observed anything major at the Y, either, but since I don't know everyone I suppose there could be some someplace. (I wouldn't expect most bigger places like that to have zero toxic people, because the general public has a percentage of unpleasant folks.)3 -
MFP Community? Yeah, some frustration with one-time posters, people who just want affirmation of what they do, unrealistic expectations forged in the blogosphere, that kind of thing. There are also a few people who do read replies and consider seriously, which feels rewarding.
But maybe perversely, what's really getting to me here, what has me discouraged and considering quitting, is the number of posts talking about how terrible the Community is. I feel like "why bother".4 -
whether you'll die of insulin resistance if you eat a piece of bread outside your fasting hours, or whatever.When there is discussion, the regulars all know each other's position on things so everything just ends up being shouted into the ether because nobody is changing anyone else's opinion and there's no new blood coming in to shake up the discussion.
Side note: I have recently seen some shift to (other people) mentioning that there are real issues that need to be addressed with the OP’s personal physician when giving advice on IF or questions about diabetic medication.
It’s an improvement worth noting.
And for @AnnPT77 don’t give up just yet.
I thought I was done. But I’m still here. Encouraging others until this place crumbles down. (or I do!)
3 -
I took a two week vacation from the boards last month.
Ended up doing a deep dive into Reddit. Talk about toxicity. OMG.
Deleted the app. I could feel myself feeling like the guy on the bus in the cartoon above post.
People love drama. We like to get absorbed into it, titillated by it, can become addicted to the next, worser (?!), louder storyline. When you’re living your quiet, hopefully, best life, easy access to drama is like cement blocks on your feet.
Drama comes in every group of two or more humans, whether online or in real life. Maybe that’s why I watch and listen to too much true crime. Easy to be righteously horrified but easy to turn off. For some reason, the internet is more insidious, though. Right now, I suppose that’s because it’s the easiest access of all, and courtesy of websites like Reddit and even innocuous ol’ MFP, you can minutely tailor your choice of gawping.2 -
I don't understand why people think the boards have become toxic (if that is the point of this thread). I've found nothing but helpful, polite, and supportive people here.
I've been a member since March 20. I frequent the boards. I'm sad to see that we don't have many Newbies here. The Introduction threads don't seem to translate to people who stick around.
I post on the 200+ Ladies thread. It's a great micro-community. There, I see regulars.4 -
I normally accept anyone that asks for a friend request, but the last few were of some (likely the same person) asking weird questions of me and wanting to know my location of where I live. 3 different names so I just have to watch out now.
I used to have pages and pages of friends list (at one time almost 40 pages) and now it's down to like 12. Every month I go through and if someone hasn't posted in a month, I delete them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 3
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