Coaching issues

zfitgal
zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi, 6 weeks ago I started with a new coach. He is pretty famous in the bodybuilding world. I know him personally from the gym as well. He put me on a meal plan. On this meal plan he started giving me rice and potatoes several times a day and it stated affecting me. I was getting very constipated and my GI trac has felt very irritated. I weigh 145 pounds and he has me eating 165 grams of protein daily. I used to eat at most 130 grams because that is what I could handle. I’ve told him how I’m feeling and it seems like he doesn’t want to be bothered. I asked him to give me my macros so I can start trying to com one food combos that work for me. He didn’t and just gave me a
Another meal plan and eliminated the one food I actually digest well and enjoy eating. He has changed the composition of my body these past few weeks but I feel like I’m not being heard. I don’t want to be on a meal plan at this point. I want to count macros and see how that works for me. He knows his stuff and places in the Olympia but I’m just not feeling very good right now. we are supposed to be recomping right now. Calories have been below 1700 for the past six weeks and he isn’t raising them for some reason. I have maintained 145 pound within these 6 weeks. I thought we were going to add calories and bring my calories up to drop them down. I’m really lost and when i say anything to him he just says look at the progress I have made which I have. I don’t know I’m not feeling happy right now. Any suggestions
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Replies

  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    I signed up for 6 months and I’m starting my 6th week now.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,242 Member
    Are you a body builder trying to place in Mr Olympia? The best teachers I ever had were not the profs who filled their lecture halls based on name recognition.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    quote="PAV8888;c-48259389"]Are you a body builder trying to place in Mr Olympia? The best teachers I ever had were not the profs who filled their lecture halls based on name recognition.[/quote]

    Im not but I train like one. I go to a bodybuilding gym where they are all competitors so this is what I see and know. Im just lost at what to do….
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    Those people don't do well with diet reccomendations to average people.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,847 Member
    edited September 2
    +1 to what Claire said above.

    Since I'm only hearing one side of things between you and the coach, being charitable, perhaps they have a different impression of your wants from a coach. I mean, you're in a gym with many competitive bodybuilders it sounds like, with a former pro bodybuilder coaching you....

    As for the diet, 130g protein at 145g bw sounds like a good target. It's not at all clear to me, and perhaps not to yourself either, whether your diet issues are due to too much protein, or the sources of your protein, or not enough fats, or the specific foods making up much of your diet. For example, whey protein powder should digest much faster than red meat. Or perhaps you'd be better with more fish instead of meat. Or as I said, 0.9g per pound should be good target anyway. There's nothing wrong with the 1.1g he recommends, and protein is satiating, but it's probably more than you need.

    As for macros, get your protein total in grams daily, and you should have 20% to 30% in fats, and whatever left in carbs. You need the protein and fats more than carbs, though ofc carbs help with energy levels for working out so you may want to time the carbs to be around your workouts.

    You should be willing and able to make whatever diet changes you want, including going up a little from the 1700 you're on, if that's what you want. If you're a beginner lifter, you can tolerate a higher calorie surplus with most of it going to muscle, but if you're not a beginner lifter then use a smaller surplus like 100-200 daily, if you're feeling 1700 isn't enough for you, or if you're getting leaner than you prefer.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    You have to be careful with calories when you're trying to build muscle. Most people need a smaller surplus than they think. Keep tabs on your waist measurement and if that is growing by more than a little you need to reel the calories back a bit.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    COGypsy wrote: »
    It sounds like Mr Olympia got his wins in spite of his nutrition plan, not because of them. If it were me, if the workouts were worthwhile I’d stick with those and ditch the meal plan since it clearly isn’t working for you. Alternatively you could take his meal plan, back out the macros and just substitute foods that agree with you more. I’m sure you paid a ton, in advance, for the 6 months, so you owe it to yourself to keep the good and not waste your valuable time with the rest.

    This is what I would do. Figure out the macros of his meal plan, adjust from there as needed to work for you and the issues it causes you. When you finish with him and he tries to convince you to keep going and is proud of your progress, tell him you might think about it if he was willing to tell people "use these macros" instead of "eat rice, chicken and broccoli this many times a day in these portions".

    Many of those types of trainers (or people in general) think that the only way forward is what worked for them. And anyone that has been around any training type of program and/or weight control knows that it's just garbage. How and what people eat varies greatly in how it impacts them personally.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,198 Member
    COGypsy wrote: »
    It sounds like Mr Olympia got his wins in spite of his nutrition plan, not because of them. If it were me, if the workouts were worthwhile I’d stick with those and ditch the meal plan since it clearly isn’t working for you. Alternatively you could take his meal plan, back out the macros and just substitute foods that agree with you more. I’m sure you paid a ton, in advance, for the 6 months, so you owe it to yourself to keep the good and not waste your valuable time with the rest.

    I'm another vote for this (the bolded). Sustainability - which is individually variable - is important.

    Besides that, IMO these bro diets aren't ideal nutritionally. Dietary variety at reasonable macros/micros is likely to be more healthful and productive than diets that repeat the same foods over and over. The one caveat is that protein quality really matters (i.e., completeness in essential amino acids (EAAs) and protein bioavailability). I'm saying that as a long-term (50 years) vegetarian. Those things are important for omnivores, too, but much easier and maybe nearly automatic.

    Best wishes for success: Your best course is your course. Coaches provide advice. Excellent coaches also listen and adjust.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    I plugged in the macros for this week and they’re different from last week. I’m so confused. He says we are recomping which we are and I visually see it. My weight is staying the same but we’re not increasing calories. I thought we were supposed to bring my calories up for a bit before we go into a defecit again, which was my goal. I was at 1760 last week and now 2 days I’m at 1300 and the third I jump up to 1900. I don’t know what he’s doing but I feel lost.

    I told him I think I’m sensitive to white rice and white potatoes and he tells me that he doesn’t think so. I just don’t like that I’m not heard. I’m really looking for a coach who is going to hear me and guide me and fear a meal plan towards me. I feel there is no team here and that I have to follow him. I feel like I’m out of control yet I’m so in control.

    He also wanted me on Creatine. I happen not to respond well to Creatine and I told him that it’s not for me and he told me it’s in my head.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    I also asked him for the macros and he said if he gives them to me I won’t have noticeable physical changes. Because I was counting macros before and I wasn’t getting anywhere. Well, I hired him because I wanted to restore my metabolism because I was down to 1400 and couldn’t lose anymore. My goal was to bring calories up and put on some muscle and recomp for a few months and then go back into a defecit to lose that last 10-15 pounds….
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?
    i don’t think you need a coach at all. Define your goals and design your diet accordingly. Do you want fatloss with muscle retention or muscle gain? Choose 1 and set your diet up accordingly.

  • COGypsy
    COGypsy Posts: 1,352 Member
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?

    What is it that you need a coach to do? Are you planning to compete any time soon?

    I ask because when I used to powerlift, I used coaches at the beginning when I was learning to lift and again about a year out from planning to compete. In between I saw consistent progress with my own programming and diet.

    There’s so much information out there and on these boards that you could probably get what you need to progress very well on your own.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?
    i don’t think you need a coach at all. Define your goals and design your diet accordingly. Do you want fatloss with muscle retention or muscle gain? Choose 1 and set your diet up accordingly.

    Thank you for helping me out! My Goal is to reverse diet right now, and bring my metabolism back up a bit. I don’t want to gain weight but at the same time I do know that might be part of the process. I have never done a reverse diet so I don’t know when I’m supposed to stop and just maintain there for a bit. And I don’t know when to start up a deficit again. So I am a bit lost on how to do that. My ultimate goal is to lose 10 to 15 pounds from where I am right now. I would love my maintenance weight to be 130 to 135. Right now I am at 145 pounds
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?
    i don’t think you need a coach at all. Define your goals and design your diet accordingly. Do you want fatloss with muscle retention or muscle gain? Choose 1 and set your diet up accordingly.

    Thank you for helping me out! My Goal is to reverse diet right now, and bring my metabolism back up a bit. I don’t want to gain weight but at the same time I do know that might be part of the process. I have never done a reverse diet so I don’t know when I’m supposed to stop and just maintain there for a bit. And I don’t know when to start up a deficit again. So I am a bit lost on how to do that. My ultimate goal is to lose 10 to 15 pounds from where I am right now. I would love my maintenance weight to be 130 to 135. Right now I am at 145 pounds

    Your metabolism is fine. Don't reverse diet it will set you back as far as fatloss. See what your calories have been lately and if your weight has been fairly stable then this is your maintenance calories so drop a few hundred a day and review in 4-6 weeks. If the loss has been acceptable then you're on the right track. Reduce calories further if the loss is suboptimal.

    Always look at weekly calories. Your average for a 7 day period should be your daily target amount.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,198 Member
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I also asked him for the macros and he said if he gives them to me I won’t have noticeable physical changes. Because I was counting macros before and I wasn’t getting anywhere. Well, I hired him because I wanted to restore my metabolism because I was down to 1400 and couldn’t lose anymore. My goal was to bring calories up and put on some muscle and recomp for a few months and then go back into a defecit to lose that last 10-15 pounds….

    I agree with others about the big-advice part of this: This coach isn't serving your needs. If you can let him go, do. If you don't let him go, then at least just stop following this diet that isn't working for you? He doesn't watch you eat, right? It's OK to tell him that you're over him policing reviewing your eating, and you'll continue on your own with the eating side now that you have the right understanding. He doesn't need to know that your right understanding is that his eating rules don't work for you, if you don't want to tell him. Just don't talk about it. It's OK to be firm and assertive.

    If your refusing to talk with him about diet ticks him off, and he starts balking at coaching you when you won't comply, (1) he's a jerk, and (2) use that as a reason to ask for your money back. ;)

    You could consider consulting a sports-specialized registered dietitian.
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I plugged in the macros for this week and they’re different from last week. I’m so confused. He says we are recomping which we are and I visually see it. My weight is staying the same but we’re not increasing calories. I thought we were supposed to bring my calories up for a bit before we go into a defecit again, which was my goal. I was at 1760 last week and now 2 days I’m at 1300 and the third I jump up to 1900. I don’t know what he’s doing but I feel lost.

    (snip for length)

    I still think you should ignore this guy, fire him if feasible.

    You say you see that you are recomping. The basic definition of recomping is staying at about the same weight, but increasing the proportion of muscle vs. fat. It's a slow route, but it can work. If you feel comfortable (though not ideal) at this weight, it would be an option - your call - to back-burner intentional fat loss for a while, and go into a deficit again later.

    When we suggest you stick with his macro/calories, here's a thing: Macros are not really an exactly exact every day kind of thing. If you want to continue his macros (optional), look at the averages over a week or two.

    On the calorie front, he may be just dishing nonsense, or he may be "calorie cycling" you, i.e., higher days and lower days intentionally, possibly in some pattern or possibly around workouts. IMO, the evidence is very limited that "calorie cycling" is an amazing approach (but I'm not a bodybuilding expert, by far).

    Since your weight is steady, and as long as that's been true for a few weeks, the implication is that the average calories you've been eating are about your current maintenance calories. That's useful knowledge going forward.

    You can decide what your #1 priority is, and I have to admit that after reading your posts I'm a little confused about what that is: Muscle gain, fat loss, recomp, increasing maintenance calories, or something else. Those are not goals that are fully compatible with each other (in the short run). At any given time, IMO it's going to be necessary to choose, and that's 100% your choice. (Yes, you can work at one for some weeks/months, reassess and move to another priority, etc.)

    To be clear: I'm not saying YOU don't know what your priority is, just that I as a reader don't know.

    I feel like some of the replies here are assuming that your priority is one or the other of those things, and giving advice accordingly, which seems to me just to add to the confusion.

    Again, underscoring, I do feel like the main advice here is right, that this coach is not right for you. It's your call about whether it's so bad that you should totally cut your losses and drop him (despite the contract cost), or continue on (possibly ignoring the parts of his advice that are making you very unhappy, which seems mainly to be the eating side).
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    (snip very good post to unfairly pick on one piece)

    As for macros, get your protein total in grams daily, and you should have 20% to 30% in fats, and whatever left in carbs. You need the protein and fats more than carbs, though ofc carbs help with energy levels for working out so you may want to time the carbs to be around your workouts.
    (more snip)

    I'd suggest getting fats goal in grams, too, with something in the range of minimum 0.35-0.45g daily per pound of healthy bodyweight, so around 50-65g. Since I'm unclear what your calorie goal will end up, 20-30% (especially that lower end) could be a bit too low to be ideal. IMO, women can need a bit higher fats intake than men. Also, men tend to have somewhat higher calorie needs at any given weight, so percentages are kind of a squishy method for estimating fats needs for that reason, too.

    Best wishes!
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?
    i don’t think you need a coach at all. Define your goals and design your diet accordingly. Do you want fatloss with muscle retention or muscle gain? Choose 1 and set your diet up accordingly.

    Thank you for helping me out! My Goal is to reverse diet right now, and bring my metabolism back up a bit. I don’t want to gain weight but at the same time I do know that might be part of the process. I have never done a reverse diet so I don’t know when I’m supposed to stop and just maintain there for a bit. And I don’t know when to start up a deficit again. So I am a bit lost on how to do that. My ultimate goal is to lose 10 to 15 pounds from where I am right now. I would love my maintenance weight to be 130 to 135. Right now I am at 145 pounds

    Your metabolism is fine. Don't reverse diet it will set you back as far as fatloss. See what your calories have been lately and if your weight has been fairly stable then this is your maintenance calories so drop a few hundred a day and review in 4-6 weeks. If the loss has been acceptable then you're on the right track. Reduce calories further if the loss is suboptimal.

    Always look at weekly calories. Your average for a 7 day period should be your daily target amount.


    What do you mean my weekly average? I would love to build my shoulders a bit. I was at 1400 calories starving and my bowel movements slowed down. I figured it was time to reverse diet a bit and come back into a defecit. In the past 6 weeks I stayed the same weight and I’m eating 1700.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I also asked him for the macros and he said if he gives them to me I won’t have noticeable physical changes. Because I was counting macros before and I wasn’t getting anywhere. Well, I hired him because I wanted to restore my metabolism because I was down to 1400 and couldn’t lose anymore. My goal was to bring calories up and put on some muscle and recomp for a few months and then go back into a defecit to lose that last 10-15 pounds….

    I agree with others about the big-advice part of this: This coach isn't serving your needs. If you can let him go, do. If you don't let him go, then at least just stop following this diet that isn't working for you? He doesn't watch you eat, right? It's OK to tell him that you're over him policing reviewing your eating, and you'll continue on your own with the eating side now that you have the right understanding. He doesn't need to know that your right understanding is that his eating rules don't work for you, if you don't want to tell him. Just don't talk about it. It's OK to be firm and assertive.

    If your refusing to talk with him about diet ticks him off, and he starts balking at coaching you when you won't comply, (1) he's a jerk, and (2) use that as a reason to ask for your money back. ;)

    You could consider consulting a sports-specialized registered dietitian.
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I plugged in the macros for this week and they’re different from last week. I’m so confused. He says we are recomping which we are and I visually see it. My weight is staying the same but we’re not increasing calories. I thought we were supposed to bring my calories up for a bit before we go into a defecit again, which was my goal. I was at 1760 last week and now 2 days I’m at 1300 and the third I jump up to 1900. I don’t know what he’s doing but I feel lost.

    (snip for length)

    I still think you should ignore this guy, fire him if feasible.

    You say you see that you are recomping. The basic definition of recomping is staying at about the same weight, but increasing the proportion of muscle vs. fat. It's a slow route, but it can work. If you feel comfortable (though not ideal) at this weight, it would be an option - your call - to back-burner intentional fat loss for a while, and go into a deficit again later.

    When we suggest you stick with his macro/calories, here's a thing: Macros are not really an exactly exact every day kind of thing. If you want to continue his macros (optional), look at the averages over a week or two.

    On the calorie front, he may be just dishing nonsense, or he may be "calorie cycling" you, i.e., higher days and lower days intentionally, possibly in some pattern or possibly around workouts. IMO, the evidence is very limited that "calorie cycling" is an amazing approach (but I'm not a bodybuilding expert, by far).

    Since your weight is steady, and as long as that's been true for a few weeks, the implication is that the average calories you've been eating are about your current maintenance calories. That's useful knowledge going forward.

    You can decide what your #1 priority is, and I have to admit that after reading your posts I'm a little confused about what that is: Muscle gain, fat loss, recomp, increasing maintenance calories, or something else. Those are not goals that are fully compatible with each other (in the short run). At any given time, IMO it's going to be necessary to choose, and that's 100% your choice. (Yes, you can work at one for some weeks/months, reassess and move to another priority, etc.)

    To be clear: I'm not saying YOU don't know what your priority is, just that I as a reader don't know.

    I feel like some of the replies here are assuming that your priority is one or the other of those things, and giving advice accordingly, which seems to me just to add to the confusion.

    Again, underscoring, I do feel like the main advice here is right, that this coach is not right for you. It's your call about whether it's so bad that you should totally cut your losses and drop him (despite the contract cost), or continue on (possibly ignoring the parts of his advice that are making you very unhappy, which seems mainly to be the eating side).
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    (snip very good post to unfairly pick on one piece)

    As for macros, get your protein total in grams daily, and you should have 20% to 30% in fats, and whatever left in carbs. You need the protein and fats more than carbs, though ofc carbs help with energy levels for working out so you may want to time the carbs to be around your workouts.
    (more snip)

    I'd suggest getting fats goal in grams, too, with something in the range of minimum 0.35-0.45g daily per pound of healthy bodyweight, so around 50-65g. Since I'm unclear what your calorie goal will end up, 20-30% (especially that lower end) could be a bit too low to be ideal. IMO, women can need a bit higher fats intake than men. Also, men tend to have somewhat higher calorie needs at any given weight, so percentages are kind of a squishy method for estimating fats needs for that reason, too.

    Best wishes!

    Thank you so much for this! I really appreciate your kindness and support. My goal at the moment is to come out of a fat burning state and get my calories up to maintenance and stay here for a while so my metabolism and body can readjust. During that time I will be lifting so I’d love to put on some more muscle. I am looking to go into a deficit at the end of October. I don’t know if I am considered lightly active or active on MyFitnessPal. I am a very active exerciser and an active person in general. I weight training five days a week and do cardio three Days a week for 45 minutes and the other two days I do the stairmaster for 30 minutes each. During the day I do run around and get about 10,000 steps in. So I really don’t know what to build my maintenance calories up to. At what point do I say OK this is where I’m staying for a while? My goal with this coach was to bring my metabolism up and re-cut my body in maintenance and then go into a deficit. I do agree. I do not think this coach is for me and I do feel I can do this myself.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,847 Member
    So you've been at 145 for 6 weeks, and it sounds like you lost weight to get there? How much weight, over how long?

    There is some validity to the reverse diet approach, if you had been dieting for a long time, and in the process your NEAT maybe dropped to compensate, which lowers your overall TDEE. So yes, you can maybe gradually push your input calories higher a little, with minimal weight gain. I doubt you'll get much higher than your current 1700 without weight gain though. Add 100 calories and keep that level for a couple of weeks, and keep an eye on some body measurements, take pics too, and ofc the scale. If you're not gaining, add another 100, etc., until you are gaining. I understand your cycle may affect this, but you also don't want to spend months on this process.

    When Tom says weekly calories he means literally total weekly calories / 7. Some people have a habit of "forgetting" a big weekend day perhaps, or "forgetting" to log some drinks or dessert etc., and think their typical day is what they're on, which may be low-balling what their actual calorie input is.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    edited September 3
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    tomcustombuilder wrote: »
    You need to stop what you’re doing and work on getting a solid game plan. You’re all over the place right now.

    I agree. Do you think finding a new coach is the best thing for me?
    i don’t think you need a coach at all. Define your goals and design your diet accordingly. Do you want fatloss with muscle retention or muscle gain? Choose 1 and set your diet up accordingly.

    Thank you for helping me out! My Goal is to reverse diet right now, and bring my metabolism back up a bit. I don’t want to gain weight but at the same time I do know that might be part of the process. I have never done a reverse diet so I don’t know when I’m supposed to stop and just maintain there for a bit. And I don’t know when to start up a deficit again. So I am a bit lost on how to do that. My ultimate goal is to lose 10 to 15 pounds from where I am right now. I would love my maintenance weight to be 130 to 135. Right now I am at 145 pounds

    Your metabolism is fine. Don't reverse diet it will set you back as far as fatloss. See what your calories have been lately and if your weight has been fairly stable then this is your maintenance calories so drop a few hundred a day and review in 4-6 weeks. If the loss has been acceptable then you're on the right track. Reduce calories further if the loss is suboptimal.

    Always look at weekly calories. Your average for a 7 day period should be your daily target amount.


    What do you mean my weekly average? I would love to build my shoulders a bit. I was at 1400 calories starving and my bowel movements slowed down. I figured it was time to reverse diet a bit and come back into a defecit. In the past 6 weeks I stayed the same weight and I’m eating 1700.

    Daily average is your actual daily amount as every day will vary somewhat so you want to look at the average. Then you're at your current maintenance which in reality may be more than 1,700 when you factor your weekly average, inaccurate calorie data input. etc. 99% of people underestimate their overall calorie amounts.

    Trying to build muscle in a caloric surplus is hard enough, in a deficit it very well may not happen at all depending on several factors.

    Focus on maintaining current muscle while focusing also on fatloss. Once you reach your goal weight reverse diet into a slight surplus to add muscle and then keep an eye on your waist measurement. If this starts growing too much you'll need to slightly reduce calories.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    So you've been at 145 for 6 weeks, and it sounds like you lost weight to get there? How much weight, over how long?

    There is some validity to the reverse diet approach, if you had been dieting for a long time, and in the process your NEAT maybe dropped to compensate, which lowers your overall TDEE. So yes, you can maybe gradually push your input calories higher a little, with minimal weight gain. I doubt you'll get much higher than your current 1700 without weight gain though. Add 100 calories and keep that level for a couple of weeks, and keep an eye on some body measurements, take pics too, and ofc the scale. If you're not gaining, add another 100, etc., until you are gaining. I understand your cycle may affect this, but you also don't want to spend months on this process.

    When Tom says weekly calories he means literally total weekly calories / 7. Some people have a habit of "forgetting" a big weekend day perhaps, or "forgetting" to log some drinks or dessert etc., and think their typical day is what they're on, which may be low-balling what their actual calorie input is.

    I was 160 last august. I lost weight mainly eating 1600 calories and I ranged between 145-147. I lowered my calories to 1400 to try to lose more and I started to gain weight and my body started to look puffy. That is when I decided to reverse diet and try to hit a higher maintenance calories and stay there for a bit and then look to lose the last 15 pounds I want to lose.

    During these past 6 weeks I look firmer
    Via pictures but measurements have stayed the same. Scale weight has remained 145 this entire time. I don’t feel I’m ready to go into a calorie defecit right now just because that defecit will be so low and I won’t be able to handle it. 1400 calories was very low for me too. I would love to build up to a maintenance calorie base and then go into a defecit from there. So this coach pretty much only took me up 200 calories to stay the same weight…I hope I can push more and I will be getting rid of him.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,198 Member
    zfitgal wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I also asked him for the macros and he said if he gives them to me I won’t have noticeable physical changes. Because I was counting macros before and I wasn’t getting anywhere. Well, I hired him because I wanted to restore my metabolism because I was down to 1400 and couldn’t lose anymore. My goal was to bring calories up and put on some muscle and recomp for a few months and then go back into a defecit to lose that last 10-15 pounds….

    I agree with others about the big-advice part of this: This coach isn't serving your needs. If you can let him go, do. If you don't let him go, then at least just stop following this diet that isn't working for you? He doesn't watch you eat, right? It's OK to tell him that you're over him policing reviewing your eating, and you'll continue on your own with the eating side now that you have the right understanding. He doesn't need to know that your right understanding is that his eating rules don't work for you, if you don't want to tell him. Just don't talk about it. It's OK to be firm and assertive.

    If your refusing to talk with him about diet ticks him off, and he starts balking at coaching you when you won't comply, (1) he's a jerk, and (2) use that as a reason to ask for your money back. ;)

    You could consider consulting a sports-specialized registered dietitian.
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I plugged in the macros for this week and they’re different from last week. I’m so confused. He says we are recomping which we are and I visually see it. My weight is staying the same but we’re not increasing calories. I thought we were supposed to bring my calories up for a bit before we go into a defecit again, which was my goal. I was at 1760 last week and now 2 days I’m at 1300 and the third I jump up to 1900. I don’t know what he’s doing but I feel lost.

    (snip for length)

    I still think you should ignore this guy, fire him if feasible.

    You say you see that you are recomping. The basic definition of recomping is staying at about the same weight, but increasing the proportion of muscle vs. fat. It's a slow route, but it can work. If you feel comfortable (though not ideal) at this weight, it would be an option - your call - to back-burner intentional fat loss for a while, and go into a deficit again later.

    When we suggest you stick with his macro/calories, here's a thing: Macros are not really an exactly exact every day kind of thing. If you want to continue his macros (optional), look at the averages over a week or two.

    On the calorie front, he may be just dishing nonsense, or he may be "calorie cycling" you, i.e., higher days and lower days intentionally, possibly in some pattern or possibly around workouts. IMO, the evidence is very limited that "calorie cycling" is an amazing approach (but I'm not a bodybuilding expert, by far).

    Since your weight is steady, and as long as that's been true for a few weeks, the implication is that the average calories you've been eating are about your current maintenance calories. That's useful knowledge going forward.

    You can decide what your #1 priority is, and I have to admit that after reading your posts I'm a little confused about what that is: Muscle gain, fat loss, recomp, increasing maintenance calories, or something else. Those are not goals that are fully compatible with each other (in the short run). At any given time, IMO it's going to be necessary to choose, and that's 100% your choice. (Yes, you can work at one for some weeks/months, reassess and move to another priority, etc.)

    To be clear: I'm not saying YOU don't know what your priority is, just that I as a reader don't know.

    I feel like some of the replies here are assuming that your priority is one or the other of those things, and giving advice accordingly, which seems to me just to add to the confusion.

    Again, underscoring, I do feel like the main advice here is right, that this coach is not right for you. It's your call about whether it's so bad that you should totally cut your losses and drop him (despite the contract cost), or continue on (possibly ignoring the parts of his advice that are making you very unhappy, which seems mainly to be the eating side).
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    (snip very good post to unfairly pick on one piece)

    As for macros, get your protein total in grams daily, and you should have 20% to 30% in fats, and whatever left in carbs. You need the protein and fats more than carbs, though ofc carbs help with energy levels for working out so you may want to time the carbs to be around your workouts.
    (more snip)

    I'd suggest getting fats goal in grams, too, with something in the range of minimum 0.35-0.45g daily per pound of healthy bodyweight, so around 50-65g. Since I'm unclear what your calorie goal will end up, 20-30% (especially that lower end) could be a bit too low to be ideal. IMO, women can need a bit higher fats intake than men. Also, men tend to have somewhat higher calorie needs at any given weight, so percentages are kind of a squishy method for estimating fats needs for that reason, too.

    Best wishes!

    Thank you so much for this! I really appreciate your kindness and support. My goal at the moment is to come out of a fat burning state and get my calories up to maintenance and stay here for a while so my metabolism and body can readjust. During that time I will be lifting so I’d love to put on some more muscle. I am looking to go into a deficit at the end of October. I don’t know if I am considered lightly active or active on MyFitnessPal. I am a very active exerciser and an active person in general. I weight training five days a week and do cardio three Days a week for 45 minutes and the other two days I do the stairmaster for 30 minutes each. During the day I do run around and get about 10,000 steps in. So I really don’t know what to build my maintenance calories up to. At what point do I say OK this is where I’m staying for a while? My goal with this coach was to bring my metabolism up and re-cut my body in maintenance and then go into a deficit. I do agree. I do not think this coach is for me and I do feel I can do this myself.

    If you're confident that 1700 is a reasonable estimate of your average over the past 6 weeks, and you've stayed weight stable approximately over that time, then there's no reason to worry about MFP's estimate, which may or may not be accurate for you.

    If you're not confident that 1700 is a reasonable estimate, but it's your current best guess based on experience, I'd say maybe eat that on average for at least the next full menstrual cycle (so you can compare body weight at the same relative point in at least two different cycles). Based on weight change over those weeks, you could adjust the calorie goal based on the assumption that 500 calories per day is about a pound a week (using arithmetic for partial pounds).

    Many-week experience-based calorie estimates are better than calculator estimates. IMO, calculator estimates are just to give a person a reasonable science-based starting point for gathering that experience, which takes 4-6 weeks (or whole menstrual cycles).

    Once you have a reasonable experiential maintenance calorie estimate, there would be two options IMO if you want to try to bump maintenance calories up a bit. One would be simply to eat the estimated maintenance calories, and keep lifting with a program that's proven helpful to you. Then if weight starts to creep down (or you feel fatigued or weak for a bit), add some daily calories to stabilize, and keep going in that way.

    The other would be as Retro suggests, to add 100 calories daily, then keep monitoring and see what happens, add more later.

    I don't have a confident guess as to whether 1700 calories means it's questionable that "you'll get much higher than your current 1700 without weight gain though". Maybe, maybe not. People differ.

    You don't say how tall or old you are, but my best guess would be that many athletic women would have maintenance calories above that, even before adding in extra calories for cardio that they may do. (I'm around your goal weight, and I do; though I admit I'm mysteriously a good li'l ol' calorie burner for my demographic even though I'm probably way older. But it seems like quite a few women in maintenance here of various ages are eating above 1700, though obviously not all.)
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,847 Member
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I was 160 last august. I lost weight mainly eating 1600 calories and I ranged between 145-147. I lowered my calories to 1400 to try to lose more and I started to gain weight and my body started to look puffy. That is when I decided to reverse diet and try to hit a higher maintenance calories and stay there for a bit and then look to lose the last 15 pounds I want to lose.

    During these past 6 weeks I look firmer
    Via pictures but measurements have stayed the same. Scale weight has remained 145 this entire time. I don’t feel I’m ready to go into a calorie defecit right now just because that defecit will be so low and I won’t be able to handle it. 1400 calories was very low for me too. I would love to build up to a maintenance calorie base and then go into a defecit from there. So this coach pretty much only took me up 200 calories to stay the same weight…I hope I can push more and I will be getting rid of him.
    Then it sounds like your metabolism is fine. You can still try adding calories if you want, but I doubt you'll have success without gaining weight. I mean maybe if you had dropped 50 or 100 pounds over a long period of continuous dieting then your NEAT might go down, but probably not based on what you're saying.

    At the very least, it sounds like you want a break from the dieting, which is understandable. Take a few months, maybe through Thanksgiving and Xmas, and ensure you don't gain much or any fat in that time. Note that you could gain a few pounds without your body fat % going up, if you're gaining muscle via lifting hard and consistently, with progressive overload and adequate protein etc. Then when you're mentally ready, go back into a deficit.
  • tomcustombuilder
    tomcustombuilder Posts: 2,220 Member
    When you add or subtract calories understand that the results will not show up sometimes for 2 or so weeks. And that is why many times people will add calories then within the week their weight goes down when it was their previously lower calorie restriction was starting to show up.

    Many times too much of fairly long term deficit combined with generous activity will cause water retention which shows up as no weight lost and a puffy look. That is the time to ease into slightly higher calories for a few weeks or until the bloat has gone. Competition bodybuilders go through this when dieting down hard before a contest.
  • zfitgal
    zfitgal Posts: 518 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I also asked him for the macros and he said if he gives them to me I won’t have noticeable physical changes. Because I was counting macros before and I wasn’t getting anywhere. Well, I hired him because I wanted to restore my metabolism because I was down to 1400 and couldn’t lose anymore. My goal was to bring calories up and put on some muscle and recomp for a few months and then go back into a defecit to lose that last 10-15 pounds….

    I agree with others about the big-advice part of this: This coach isn't serving your needs. If you can let him go, do. If you don't let him go, then at least just stop following this diet that isn't working for you? He doesn't watch you eat, right? It's OK to tell him that you're over him policing reviewing your eating, and you'll continue on your own with the eating side now that you have the right understanding. He doesn't need to know that your right understanding is that his eating rules don't work for you, if you don't want to tell him. Just don't talk about it. It's OK to be firm and assertive.

    If your refusing to talk with him about diet ticks him off, and he starts balking at coaching you when you won't comply, (1) he's a jerk, and (2) use that as a reason to ask for your money back. ;)

    You could consider consulting a sports-specialized registered dietitian.
    zfitgal wrote: »
    I plugged in the macros for this week and they’re different from last week. I’m so confused. He says we are recomping which we are and I visually see it. My weight is staying the same but we’re not increasing calories. I thought we were supposed to bring my calories up for a bit before we go into a defecit again, which was my goal. I was at 1760 last week and now 2 days I’m at 1300 and the third I jump up to 1900. I don’t know what he’s doing but I feel lost.

    (snip for length)

    I still think you should ignore this guy, fire him if feasible.

    You say you see that you are recomping. The basic definition of recomping is staying at about the same weight, but increasing the proportion of muscle vs. fat. It's a slow route, but it can work. If you feel comfortable (though not ideal) at this weight, it would be an option - your call - to back-burner intentional fat loss for a while, and go into a deficit again later.

    When we suggest you stick with his macro/calories, here's a thing: Macros are not really an exactly exact every day kind of thing. If you want to continue his macros (optional), look at the averages over a week or two.

    On the calorie front, he may be just dishing nonsense, or he may be "calorie cycling" you, i.e., higher days and lower days intentionally, possibly in some pattern or possibly around workouts. IMO, the evidence is very limited that "calorie cycling" is an amazing approach (but I'm not a bodybuilding expert, by far).

    Since your weight is steady, and as long as that's been true for a few weeks, the implication is that the average calories you've been eating are about your current maintenance calories. That's useful knowledge going forward.

    You can decide what your #1 priority is, and I have to admit that after reading your posts I'm a little confused about what that is: Muscle gain, fat loss, recomp, increasing maintenance calories, or something else. Those are not goals that are fully compatible with each other (in the short run). At any given time, IMO it's going to be necessary to choose, and that's 100% your choice. (Yes, you can work at one for some weeks/months, reassess and move to another priority, etc.)

    To be clear: I'm not saying YOU don't know what your priority is, just that I as a reader don't know.

    I feel like some of the replies here are assuming that your priority is one or the other of those things, and giving advice accordingly, which seems to me just to add to the confusion.

    Again, underscoring, I do feel like the main advice here is right, that this coach is not right for you. It's your call about whether it's so bad that you should totally cut your losses and drop him (despite the contract cost), or continue on (possibly ignoring the parts of his advice that are making you very unhappy, which seems mainly to be the eating side).
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    (snip very good post to unfairly pick on one piece)

    As for macros, get your protein total in grams daily, and you should have 20% to 30% in fats, and whatever left in carbs. You need the protein and fats more than carbs, though ofc carbs help with energy levels for working out so you may want to time the carbs to be around your workouts.
    (more snip)

    I'd suggest getting fats goal in grams, too, with something in the range of minimum 0.35-0.45g daily per pound of healthy bodyweight, so around 50-65g. Since I'm unclear what your calorie goal will end up, 20-30% (especially that lower end) could be a bit too low to be ideal. IMO, women can need a bit higher fats intake than men. Also, men tend to have somewhat higher calorie needs at any given weight, so percentages are kind of a squishy method for estimating fats needs for that reason, too.

    Best wishes!

    Thank you so much for this! I really appreciate your kindness and support. My goal at the moment is to come out of a fat burning state and get my calories up to maintenance and stay here for a while so my metabolism and body can readjust. During that time I will be lifting so I’d love to put on some more muscle. I am looking to go into a deficit at the end of October. I don’t know if I am considered lightly active or active on MyFitnessPal. I am a very active exerciser and an active person in general. I weight training five days a week and do cardio three Days a week for 45 minutes and the other two days I do the stairmaster for 30 minutes each. During the day I do run around and get about 10,000 steps in. So I really don’t know what to build my maintenance calories up to. At what point do I say OK this is where I’m staying for a while? My goal with this coach was to bring my metabolism up and re-cut my body in maintenance and then go into a deficit. I do agree. I do not think this coach is for me and I do feel I can do this myself.

    If you're confident that 1700 is a reasonable estimate of your average over the past 6 weeks, and you've stayed weight stable approximately over that time, then there's no reason to worry about MFP's estimate, which may or may not be accurate for you.

    If you're not confident that 1700 is a reasonable estimate, but it's your current best guess based on experience, I'd say maybe eat that on average for at least the next full menstrual cycle (so you can compare body weight at the same relative point in at least two different cycles). Based on weight change over those weeks, you could adjust the calorie goal based on the assumption that 500 calories per day is about a pound a week (using arithmetic for partial pounds).

    Many-week experience-based calorie estimates are better than calculator estimates. IMO, calculator estimates are just to give a person a reasonable science-based starting point for gathering that experience, which takes 4-6 weeks (or whole menstrual cycles).

    Once you have a reasonable experiential maintenance calorie estimate, there would be two options IMO if you want to try to bump maintenance calories up a bit. One would be simply to eat the estimated maintenance calories, and keep lifting with a program that's proven helpful to you. Then if weight starts to creep down (or you feel fatigued or weak for a bit), add some daily calories to stabilize, and keep going in that way.

    The other would be as Retro suggests, to add 100 calories daily, then keep monitoring and see what happens, add more later.

    I don't have a confident guess as to whether 1700 calories means it's questionable that "you'll get much higher than your current 1700 without weight gain though". Maybe, maybe not. People differ.

    You don't say how tall or old you are, but my best guess would be that many athletic women would have maintenance calories above that, even before adding in extra calories for cardio that they may do. (I'm around your goal weight, and I do; though I admit I'm mysteriously a good li'l ol' calorie burner for my demographic even though I'm probably way older. But it seems like quite a few women in maintenance here of various ages are eating above 1700, though obviously not all.)


    I’m 5”4 and I am 38 years old. I have consistently been eating between 1700-1760. For the past 6 weeks. When I started with this coach he put me right on a meal plan with these calories. I started with him at 146 and since my starting date I stayed with in the the 145 range fluctuating oz ex 145.4, 145.6…

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