unlimited veggies

neanderthin

And for you, an article that supports your view and goes against mine::
http://sciencehastheanswer.blogspot.com/2012/05/negative-calorie-food-science-myths-and.html


I sent an email to Alan Aragon to see if he has done or knows of any studies regarding veggies and its affects on weight.

You do understand that it's calories that effect weight, right?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ok

Obviously you don't.

If TDEE is 2500 calories and add unlimited veg, because you say people will lose weight by default, what's going to happen?
Your thought process is in a vacuum where veg is a miraculous food that defies the laws of thermodynamics......now that is funny.

SezxyStef

It's right in the study he copy pasted without reading

"However, in combination with our previous resultsin which the V&F group did not lose as much weight as the Reduction group, simply advising increased vegetable intake, even in the context of weight loss, without an emphasis on maintaining reduced calorie intake is likely to be less effective than a combined effort to increase vegetable intake while maintaining reduced caloric intake"

I read that and saw it....
But there was also the point they made that people who consumed V & F did also lose weight.

V&F group did not lose as much weight as the Reduction group

They still lost weight.

The point is this...over a day you might consume lets say an average of 100 calories in veggies. Not much...but lets say you don't log them...that is 700 calories in one week...3500 in 5 weeks..that's a pound of weight...52 weeks in one year...so that's 10lbs in one year...

So basically the point is LOG ALL YOUR FOOD.

MityMax96

If TDEE is 2500 calories and add unlimited veg, because you say people will lose weight by default, what's going to happen?
Your thought process is in a vacuum where veg is a miraculous food that defies the laws of thermodynamics......now that is funny.

Ok, then try this for me....
Eat your daily calories as you normally would....
So end of day, before you go to bed, you hit your 2500 calories, or whatever your goal is.

Then take 16 cups of broccoli, steam and eat it.

Hell, take 3 cups, steam and it....that is 93 calories over your 2500.

What is going to happen?

MityMax96

The point is this...over a day you might consume lets say an average of 100 calories in veggies. Not much...but lets say you don't log them...that is 700 calories in one week...3500 in 5 weeks..that's a pound of weight...52 weeks in one year...so that's 10lbs in one year...

So basically the point is LOG ALL YOUR FOOD.

Fine log those veggies...
I do as well....but that is because if people view my diary, they see I practice what I preach.
But I know with how I fix my veggies, it will not make or break my goals and calories if I were to not log them

Do you know (with veggies I listed) what 100 calories looks like?
That would be a tad over 3 cups of broccoli to get to 100 calories.

MityMax96

Just so ya'll know....I love this thread, good job to the OP.

But I would love to see an experiment.....where people consumed there daily caloric goals (whatever that was comprised of)....and then when finished and they hit their target.
They had to eat 100 - 200 calories extra of Veggies.

That would be an awesome experiment.

Mokey41

I'm old, small and have a BMR of just under 1200 calories. For you guys eating an extra 100 calories a day of anything isn't a big deal. For me it is. You can't make a blanket statement that it doesn't hurt if you go 100 calories over your budget everyday. You are also very specific on what veggies can be consumed in large quantities without any detrimental effect which would assume the average newbie learning to eat right has this knowledge.

The average person with a weight problem needs to log all of their food and see where their calories are coming from. Maybe by logging that cup of broccoli they'll see that they could eat a truckload of it for the same calories as that cookie they ate. They might also see that you can't eat quite so many carrots for that calorie allotment and that corn and peas pack more of a calorie punch yet.

If you're only talking to the bro's at the gym that are eating 2,500 calories a day or more and aware of nutrition then your point may be valid. Just for the record I bet my obese hubby could pack away 16 cups of steamed broccoli and be looking for a burger to wash it down so it's not impossible.

MityMax96

I'm old, small and have a BMR of just under 1200 calories. For you guys eating an extra 100 calories a day of anything isn't a big deal. For me it is. You can't make a blanket statement that it doesn't hurt if you go 100 calories over your budget everyday. You are also very specific on what veggies can be consumed in large quantities without any detrimental effect which would assume the average newbie learning to eat right has this knowledge.

Right, but give it a shot and see what happens.
I understand the newbie aspect, that is why I gave details by what I meant in my post.

The average person with a weight problem needs to log all of their food and see where their calories are coming from. Maybe by logging that cup of broccoli they'll see that they could eat a truckload of it for the same calories as that cookie they ate. They might also see that you can't eat quite so many carrots for that calorie allotment and that corn and peas pack more of a calorie punch yet.

If you're only talking to the bro's at the gym that are eating 2,500 calories a day or more and aware of nutrition then your point may be valid. Just for the record I bet my obese hubby could pack away 16 cups of steamed broccoli and be looking for a burger to wash it down so it's not impossible.

Ok, but your obese hubby went outside the parameters of my argument....that is not my fault.
I was specific by what I said.

So you can't attribute the weight gain by what I said, but the fact that your husband went and grabbed a burger...

And why the "bro" label??
I am not insulting you.

deksgrl

It has calories, log it.

MityMax96

Let me also say this....
For me, my daily target is 2600 calories.
I log my veggies....
But even if I didn't log my veggies (but still hit my caloric target for the day).....I am certain that I would not gain weight.
I know I consume at least 2 servings of veggies a day, so about 50 - 70 calories, maybe.....

Now others will dismiss this because "well look at you, you are tall and skinny, so it doesn't matter with you"......

So it would be more helpful if someone were to put it to the test.....

And hey I could be totally wrong, I am fine with that.

MityMax96

Here is a great article....Done by Lyle McDonald.....
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

detailed article on how the body works with calories it gets.....and the whole 3500 calories equals 1 pound

hookilau

:noway: whoa.
rigid crowd :blushing:

hookilau

Here is a great article....Done by Lyle McDonald.....
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

detailed article on how the body works with calories it gets.....and the whole 3500 calories equals 1 pound

MityMax96

:noway: whoa.
rigid crowd :blushing:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

MityMax96

I went ahead and grabbed my bag of Baby Leaf Spinach out of the fridge....
2 cups of spinach ==
20 cal, 5 fat calories, Carbs 3g, Fiber 2g (net carbs = 1 gr), Protein 2 gr

To get to 500 calories, you have to down 25 cups.

samammay

Pretty sure the idea of unlimited veggies comes from WW. All WW Point + system is is a calorie deficit weight loss program with rounding errors.

The idea behind unlimited veggies in WW is to get people to consume more of them so they arent spending all of their points on snacks because they are still hungry.

Yes, veggies have calories and in theory they could offset your goals by X amount. Will that happen? Probably not because if you are eating 500 calories of steamed broccoli, you are probably pretty full and not eating 2000 calories of deep dish pizza at 10pm because your 750 calorie dinner didnt fill you up.

Should you log your veggies? Yeah. Will it break your diet if you dont? Probably not.

HeidiCooksSupper

I know Weight Watchers has the unlimited veggies thing to encourage folks to eat veggies. That works for some people.

There are other reasons to log the veggies, however. Not only does it help you keep track of carbs but it helps you keep track of vegetables. Are you eating enough servings of vegetables during each day? Use the log not only to keep track of when you go OVER on things but also for when you are UNDER on things. I do it for fiber and for reminding myself to eat plenty of vegetables.

hookilau

Pretty sure the idea of unlimited veggies comes from WW. All WW Point + system is is a calorie deficit weight loss program with rounding errors.

The idea behind unlimited veggies in WW is to get people to consume more of them so they arent spending all of their points on snacks because they are still hungry.

Yes, veggies have calories and in theory they could offset your goals by X amount. Will that happen? Probably not because if you are eating 500 calories of steamed broccoli, you are probably pretty full and not eating 2000 calories of deep dish pizza at 10pm because your 750 calorie dinner didnt fill you up.

Should you log your veggies? Yeah. Will it break your diet if you dont? Probably not.

yep...I'm an old WW drop out :blushing:
Boy was I pissed when I found out we had to start counting veggies :sick:
I can see where it would be really hard to over eat on veggies though :drinker: ...I'm with ya on that :blushing:

harleygroomer

NEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I log everything even my supplements as some of them DO contain calories. EVERYTHING absolutely EVERYTHING!! This is why so many people have issues maintaining--they forget their logs or get lazy.

hookilau

I know Weight Watchers has the unlimited veggies thing to encourage folks to eat veggies. That works for some people.

There are other reasons to log the veggies, however. Not only does it help you keep track of carbs but it helps you keep track of vegetables. Are you eating enough servings of vegetables during each day? Use the log not only to keep track of when you go OVER on things but also for when you are UNDER on things. I do it for fiber and for reminding myself to eat plenty of vegetables.

This is why I track my veggies...I've got to keep a lid on my carbs & I'm trying to make sure I get as much as I can without upsetting the apple cart so to speak :laugh:

MityMax96

But you do understand (again with veggies I listed, and the like), it would be very tough to tip the scales in a negative direction if you were to consume 100 calories of veggies, after you had already consumed your daily goal of 2500

If we go with the 3500 cal == 1 lb belief
Then As another poster put it.....100 cal * 7 days * 5 weeks == 3500 calories.....

So it would take 5 weeks, just to see a 1lb increase.....which I personally don't believe is what would happen....based on the article by Lyle McDonald I posted.

But that is my theory, and since I don't have a lot of money to fund an experiment.....I can't prove it.


From the McDonald Article

......if you know intake and output, you should be able to know exactly how much body mass will change, right?

Put differently, it’s commonly stated that if you reduce food intake by 500 calories/day you will lose one pound per week. Yet when people do that very thing, this never happens in the real world. Or if you add 500 calories/day of food, you should gain a pound, and that pretty much never happens either in the real world.