please explain the problem with low calories...
Replies
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If your deficit exceeds what your body can compensate for in fat, other tissues are used for energy - muscle, bone, organs, etc. They're used anyway, to a lesser degree, but a steeper deficit increases the severity of lean mass loss.0
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Try searching for "nutritional ketosis" to expand your knowledge to the alternative fuel the brain uses when ingested carbs are in short supply, Ketones from fat can provide about 70% of the brain's requirements.Actually, your brain doesn't use fat at all. It's strictly a glycogen consumer. And since it can't store glycogen on its own it taps into the approx 30g of glycogen stored in your liver to provide fuel.
At least, that's what I found out a year ago when I did a search for "What does the brain use for energy."0 -
This thread is great! So glad to see good info and receptive audiences! I did a little cheer in my office after reading the OP's reply
One thing I've learned here, is that our BMR/minimum is unique to each of us. Sure, there are ways to get averages or guesstimates. We have to take into account:
Age
Height
Gender
Activity level
Current Weight
Healthy Goal Weight
(And for some, Medical conditions)
I'm 5'8", and even if I were at a healthy weight I would need more calories than someone at 5'2" who is at a healthy weight for their height. I have to support more bone, skin, muscle, etc. Or, compare the heating needs for a one story house versus a two story house. A heating system for a one story house will overwork itself in a two story and ultimately fail just performing its basic function.
I used these calculators here to find my daily calorie goal: http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/. :drinker:0 -
Your BMR based on your stats is 1500. So if you didn't do anything (including chewing and feeding yourself) then that 1000 would be legitimate to lose a pound a week. On average (walking around and also work, chores, etc.) you probably at minimum burn another 300 calories. So your net calories are 700 a day. Sorry, but intake that low for you is considered much closer to a VLCD and that can definitely play havoc with just your hormones alone. Other side effects are things like hair falling out, lower blood pressure, etc.I don't get all these posts saying 1200 is too low, I set mine to 1000. I eat things like omelots, sandwiches, salads, tuna, salmon, veggies, fruit, cereal, cheese and I don't feel hungy at 1000. I think I'm getting a good mix, but I don't get why that is so low. Shouldn't it be about what you are eating, rather than just looking at the number itself? Not trying to be defensive, but I just don't get it. I'm losing weight and I definitely need to incorporate exercise, but my food calories will remain at 1000, maybe 1200 on the weekends. Is this just horrible? I don't feel starved at all and once I get to my goal, I of course will increase the calories but keep a healthy diet and also exercise. I'm 5'7" and weigh 157 right now, trying to get to 135.
Just cause one doesn't feel hungry, doesn't mean that the body isn't craving nutrients. People with eating disorders will always say they aren't hungry and we all know that it usually doesn't turn out well.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Hey, niner...
...keep catching up on this thread. It takes an interesting turn.
ETA: I'm not saying your post isn't spot on...just that the thread moved through that into some unique territory for an MFP thread like this. (In other words, OP acknowledged these concerns and is reconsidering her approach).0 -
You've probably got a lot to lose though. Obese people can legitimately do a VLCD under doctor's supervision. A person losing 30lbs SHOULDN'T attempt it.I don't pay much attention to the number. I eat now WHEN I am hungry and I rarely come near the 1000 mark much LESS the 1200 or above. I am still losing, my trainer and Dr aren't upset, soooooooooooooooooo..It is a number
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
WOW just WOW! I'm serious when I say, that I'm kind of shocked and freaked out! I'm such a big Google researcher and I've never even thought of researching it. I just thought that I"m eating all day and making good choices (eating grapes right now) and thought and didn't really think about what I could be doing to my body. Now I feel like an idiot lol I guess it just feels scary to eat high calories and I thought well, if I just get to my weight, then I can worry about upping the calories. I'm going to increase my calories and I think if I work out regularly, I'll feel better about it.
Thank you for scaring me, I'm serious, that is what it takes with me. I appreciate everyone's input and sharing their personal story. I'm going to go back and read it all again. I just need to figure out how many calories are right for me. I guess I can finally add that peanut butter to my celery I was scared about! haha
Did...did you just take the awesome advice that people posted in here?
.This is unprecedented. I was going to post something blunt and slightly rude. Now I don't know what to say...0 -
um. I disagree. I don't think its too low. You should eat till your full. Where in the universe does it say that eating 1000 calories is bad? If your OBESE its very different from being slightly overweight or losing a few pounds. Your putting your body into ketotosis -essentially where your burning ketones or fat for energy, rather than carbs. First it will burn the glucose stored in your liver.Then when it runs out it will begin to look for energy stored in your other organs, then body fat.
yes, this can be hard on your kidneys, which is why you always see people in ketogenic diets drinking lots of water and eating high fat diets. Its important to keep your uric acid content low -- otherwise you could get kidney stones. Believe me, that's no fun.
People need to do what is appropriate for them individually. There is no universal advice for dieting. http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/0 -
People with eating disorders eat based on what they think "what works for them".I have been at 1200 calories a day since I started MFP in January of this year - total loss to date is 73.5 lbs. I eat very well and do not feel hungry because I make sure to eat whole foods, not processed, and keep my nutrition balanced. Two key factors for me were cutting sugar out of my diet and greatly reducing sodium. Walking is my main source of exercise - most days I walk at least 60 minutes - on occasion I use some of those extra calories I earned but not often. Every person is different so there is no one answer to this question. Each person has to find what works for them.
Again, you are much older than the OP and had a lot more weight to lose. 1200 calories can be appropriate for some people, but not the majority.
Which is why I said "Every person is different so there is no one answer to this question. Each person has to find what works for them"
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Yeah, just saw that. Kudos to her and you're right, it's kind of unprecedented.Hey, niner...
...keep catching up on this thread. It takes an interesting turn.
ETA: I'm not saying your post isn't spot on...just that the thread moved through that into some unique territory for an MFP thread like this. (In other words, OP acknowledged these concerns and is reconsidering her approach).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
um. I disagree. I don't think its too low. You should eat till your full.
Stop it.0 -
WOW just WOW! I'm serious when I say, that I'm kind of shocked and freaked out! I'm such a big Google researcher and I've never even thought of researching it. I just thought that I"m eating all day and making good choices (eating grapes right now) and thought and didn't really think about what I could be doing to my body. Now I feel like an idiot lol I guess it just feels scary to eat high calories and I thought well, if I just get to my weight, then I can worry about upping the calories. I'm going to increase my calories and I think if I work out regularly, I'll feel better about it.
Thank you for scaring me, I'm serious, that is what it takes with me. I appreciate everyone's input and sharing their personal story. I'm going to go back and read it all again. I just need to figure out how many calories are right for me. I guess I can finally add that peanut butter to my celery I was scared about! haha
Did...did you just take the awesome advice that people posted in here?
.This is unprecedented. I was going to post something blunt and slightly rude. Now I don't know what to say...
Yeah, I know.
Not sure what we're supposed to do now.
We could address that 5:52p post that supports OP's *original* thoughts before OP's "eureka!" moment...
...but honestly, I'm just not that feeling it. I accept that not everyone can be "saved", at least not all at once...and with the admission of OP that she is reconsidering, well, that's enough for me to consider this thread a success...
...and I'll just happily walk away now.
(Still feels weird though.)
ETA:um. I disagree. I don't think its too low. You should eat till your full.
Stop it.
LOL.
Fight the good fight, whierd.
Never give up. Never give in.
:drinker:0 -
Stop what? All the pseudo scientific advice around here? There isn't a consensus about nearly 90% of the advice that runs around here.
People should go to a ****en doctor and ask these questions.0 -
Stop what? All the pseudo scientific advice around here? There isn't a consensus about nearly 90% of the advice that runs around here.
People should go to a ****en doctor and ask these questions.
I do talk to a doctor about it. Twice a week. Every week. And a therapist. And a psychiatrist. And a nutritionist. And the phlebotomist who does my blood work to check me for organ failure. And the nurses who make sure that my heart isn't going to give out.0 -
Stop what? All the pseudo scientific advice around here? There isn't a consensus about nearly 90% of the advice that runs around here.
People should go to a ****en doctor and ask these questions.
erm, if you think 90% of the advice found here is pseudo scientific & that people should "go to a ****en doctor and ask these questions." then whats with your post from last month? http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1064083-having-trouble-eating-enough0 -
ok not a single person has backed up their claims either against or for eating at 1000 cal. Every one explains their science. Not one person, except the person who said abt the study where 1000 cal diet was advised for obese test volunteers. Come one people , If we are to have an eye opener , you should back up what you say . I have been searching for studies that show either way , but have not seen any. This would be a good thread to direct people to If we resolve it.0
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Stop what? All the pseudo scientific advice around here? There isn't a consensus about nearly 90% of the advice that runs around here.
People should go to a ****en doctor and ask these questions.
Oh? You're telling me that there is a consensus in the scientific community that eating 1,000 calories per day is ideal? Please, post the studies that say this.
Way to show how much you know about nutrition. Doctors aren't nutritionists or dieticians. I looked at your other posts around here, you seem to be incredibly angry. May I suggest yoga?0 -
Well..I'll just give my input even thought I'm sure it won't be held up as much as everyone elses;
I have an eating disorder. I have to go to the doctor twice a week to watch my blood pressure, that runs around 70/50 because if it gets lower than that, something could go wrong with my heart and I could die. My pulse is also extremely low. My oxygen saturation is low. My body temperature runs around 96 (where a normal body temp is 98.6). I have to regularly get blood test to check and make sure that there is no damage to my kidneys or liver and a slew of other things (There is an order for blood work sitting right beside me right now, the orders on it are TSH, CBC, CMP (chem 14), ESR (Sed Rate), A1C) because what I have done to my body. How did I get said eating disorder? Eating less than 1000 calories a day. Dropping weight quickly. Deciding since I was dropping weight so quickly I would drop down more and more and more. Now my teeth are falling out, my hair is coming out in handfuls, and there is something wrong with my kidneys.
But good luck with your "healthy" low calorie diet.
I just want to again thank this poster for telling her story and her bravery. I again encourage the repost of this as it's own topic so that it might be available to others outside of this thread. I've been a lurker and periodic commenter on mfp for a bit now and this is the most telling read I've seen of ED and it's effects. I have seen many, and I do mean many pro-ana or pro-ED posts and while I know many will not listen or simply won't want to, I think that this kind of personal experience needs to be made available to the general populace so that they may make better decisions and know the effects of bad decisions.
Thank you for your heart felt response to OP and good luck, be strong, and see recovery as you seem to be on a very firm road there.
andWOW just WOW! I'm serious when I say, that I'm kind of shocked and freaked out! I'm such a big Google researcher and I've never even thought of researching it. I just thought that I"m eating all day and making good choices (eating grapes right now) and thought and didn't really think about what I could be doing to my body. Now I feel like an idiot lol I guess it just feels scary to eat high calories and I thought well, if I just get to my weight, then I can worry about upping the calories. I'm going to increase my calories and I think if I work out regularly, I'll feel better about it.
Thank you for scaring me, I'm serious, that is what it takes with me. I appreciate everyone's input and sharing their personal story. I'm going to go back and read it all again. I just need to figure out how many calories are right for me. I guess I can finally add that peanut butter to my celery I was scared about! haha
In...
...for awesome, straightforward, no-nonsense responses and an OP with a willingness to hear them out.
This thread has slightly restored my hope for humanity.
Best of luck to everyone who is personally fighting this problem and those willing to share to help others.
:flowerforyou:
^^^ Couldn't have said either better...worth reposting!
Ps. I consume probably between 1700-2100 calories a day (plus I exercise 4-5 days) and I'm 5'3". I've consistently lost weight for 13 months. My expectations for losing weight (quickly) were so screwed up. It's all about slow and steady. And...I feel freaking amazing- energy, attitude and physically. The time it took me to get here and create new healthy habits were totally worth it. Plus, I get to eat! :happy: nomnomnom0 -
ok0
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I only read the first page of responses - which all basically said that low cal way bad. But I've been eating the same for 15 years, and whenever I calculate it, it is less than 1000 calories. (I'm 5'6"). I have gained weight on this amount as I've become less active.
I tried weight watchers last year. They increased my diet to the point I could not consume all the food! So I'm trying to do it on my own. I eat skinless boneless chicken, beef, pork, beans, whole grains, dairy, eggs, vegetables and fruit. What am I leaving out?
I believe my diet is balance even if not abundant. I feel very bloated and sick if I eat a lot more.
I started exercising a month ago and joined MFP to track the calories used. I see a difference in my body, and a 'little' on the scale but have a way to go.
I wish you well on your journey. I think we should support others, not be critical and I apologize for some of the criticism you've endured for asking a question of a 'support' group.
:flowerforyou:
I think you may want to read the entire thread.0 -
I don't pay much attention to the number. I eat now WHEN I am hungry and I rarely come near the 1000 mark much LESS the 1200 or above. I am still losing, my trainer and Dr aren't upset, soooooooooooooooooo..It is a number
Good luck with the long term success of that strategy.... and fyi, your doctor and trainer may know *kitten* about nutrition. Your doctor for sure, and your trainer should know better-well so should the doctor but they don't usually take more than one course in nutrition in all their years of university. There are a whole bunch of Certified Personal Trainers right here on MFP that give the worst advice, and can't even get their own health in order.... So.0 -
I say NET your BMR because it's not okay to eat 1500 calories and then go spend an hour at the gym burning off 500.
Oh wow I'm new to all this and I didn't know doing this was an issue. Thanks for the info. So that is why MFP is adding in what I worked out to my food intake. I didn't realize that's why it was happening.
I need to etch this into my brain and not forget it!0 -
Basically your body will eat the muscle more than the fat. try to up your calories a bit & do strength training. I suggest taking a multivitamin that contains vit D. I eat 1200-1400 calories with moderate exercise & strength training & have lost 19lbs in 2 months.0
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ok not a single person has backed up their claims either against or for eating at 1000 cal. Every one explains their science. Not one person, except the person who said abt the study where 1000 cal diet was advised for obese test volunteers. Come one people , If we are to have an eye opener , you should back up what you say . I have been searching for studies that show either way , but have not seen any. This would be a good thread to direct people to If we resolve it.
Ok.That's because you won't find any
Here's a study that shows "Calorie restriction enhanced the catabolic response to inactivity by combining greater protein catabolism in the postabsorptive state with an impaired postprandial anabolic utilization of free amino acids." For the layman, catabolic response is when muscles get broken down. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/2/366.full
Here's a study that shows "Weight loss results in adaptive thermogenesis." ATG is a is a disproportional or greater than expected reduction of resting metabolic rate. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/97/5/990.abstract?sid=d9131f0e-cd5b-421b-9ff9-f04c30cc9a79
Here's a study of healthy men that showed weight loss from a restricted calorie diet led to about 4% protein loss. When adjusted for various factors, it's actually about 1/4 of the total weight loss of muscle (25% of lost weight came from muscle): http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/24/8/913.abstract?sid=84c552f6-942f-4a44-9042-747811853b71
Here's a study that shows that Resting Energy Expenditure is suppressed during a restricted calorie diet (meaning you burn less while at rest). This was done on morbidly obese women, so the "your body will still use fat if you're fat" folks may not have as much room for argument: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/46/6/893.abstract?sid=84c552f6-942f-4a44-9042-747811853b71
Here's a study done on morbidly obese subjects where they were trying to figure out the best way to prevent muscle loss during restricted calorie dieting. In other words, muscle loss happened, they were just trying to figure out how to prevent it: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/40/3/611.abstract?sid=84c552f6-942f-4a44-9042-747811853b71
Here's a quote about a study, which unfortunately is not linked in the article, however it was reviewed by the Associate Professor of Medicine at HARVARD MEDICAL, basically saying low calorie diets can lead to all sorts of problems: WARNING ON EXTREME DIETS
Extreme diets of fewer than 1,100 calories carry health risks. They are also often followed by bingeing or overeating, and a return to obesity. Such diets often do not have enough vitamins and minerals, which must then be taken as supplements. Most of the initial weight loss is in fluids. Later, fat is lost, but so is muscle, which can account for more than 30% of the weight loss. No one should be on very strict diets for longer than 16 weeks, or fast for weight loss. Severe dieting has unpleasant side effects, including fatigue, intolerance to cold, hair loss, gallstone formation, and menstrual irregularities. There have been rare reports of death from heart arrhythmias when liquid formulas did not have sufficient nutrients. Pregnant women who excessively diet during the first trimester put their unborn children at risk for birth defects. Of note, those whose diets include a high intake of fluids and much reduced protein and sodium are at risk for hyponatremia, which can cause fatigue, confusion, dizziness, and in extreme cases, coma and death.
You're welcome. And guess what Yarwell, I found some
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At 1200, for most people, you're not eating enough. Your body goes into starvation mode, which then means it struggles to hold onto every single pound and it's harder for you to lose weight. When you do lose weight, it tends to be muscle mass, not fat. Bad all around.
This is NOT true. starvation mode isn't real.
the reason they state not to go under 1200 for most people is because of nutrients. most people cannot get the nutrients they need at a rate under that.0 -
for reference0
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Well..I'll just give my input even thought I'm sure it won't be held up as much as everyone elses;
I have an eating disorder. I have to go to the doctor twice a week to watch my blood pressure, that runs around 70/50 because if it gets lower than that, something could go wrong with my heart and I could die. My pulse is also extremely low. My oxygen saturation is low. My body temperature runs around 96 (where a normal body temp is 98.6). I have to regularly get blood test to check and make sure that there is no damage to my kidneys or liver and a slew of other things (There is an order for blood work sitting right beside me right now, the orders on it are TSH, CBC, CMP (chem 14), ESR (Sed Rate), A1C) because what I have done to my body. How did I get said eating disorder? Eating less than 1000 calories a day. Dropping weight quickly. Deciding since I was dropping weight so quickly I would drop down more and more and more. Now my teeth are falling out, my hair is coming out in handfuls, and there is something wrong with my kidneys.
But good luck with your "healthy" low calorie diet.
Thank you for sharing that. You need to post that as its own topic as a warning for all the people here on their "healthy" low calorie diets. Best of luck to you!!
^^Definitely agree!!!!0 -
I don't pay much attention to the number. I eat now WHEN I am hungry and I rarely come near the 1000 mark much LESS the 1200 or above. I am still losing, my trainer and Dr aren't upset, soooooooooooooooooo..It is a number
Good luck with the long term success of that strategy.... and fyi, your doctor and trainer may know *kitten* about nutrition. Your doctor for sure, and your trainer should know better-well so should the doctor but they don't usually take more than one course in nutrition in all their years of university. There are a whole bunch of Certified Personal Trainers right here on MFP that give the worst advice, and can't even get their own health in order.... So.
Pretty sure a real live doctor that you go to and have a patient/relationship with is a far better source on what is right for the individual than the advice of a thousand talking monkeys found on the innerwebz.0 -
At 1200, for most people, you're not eating enough. Your body goes into starvation mode, which then means it struggles to hold onto every single pound and it's harder for you to lose weight. When you do lose weight, it tends to be muscle mass, not fat. Bad all around.
This is NOT true. starvation mode isn't real.
the reason they state not to go under 1200 for most people is because of nutrients. most people cannot get the nutrients they need at a rate under that.
Here's the thing: technically, you are correct. MOST of the weight loss, meaning more than 50% does not come from muscle. HOWEVER, a much larger proportion of weight loss comes from eating at a low calorie diet than normal, like 25% to 30% of the total weight lost! VLCD also has many detrimental side effects regardless of your obesity level, but holding onto ALL of your fat isn't one of them. So yes, Starvation Mode is very real. No, it's not what most people think it is. That doesn't make it any less terrible or any less real.
For reference, see several studies I posted a few up.0 -
Yes, a real, live doctor who has probably next to no nutritional training surely knows more about the dangers of eating too low calorie than someone who is actively recovering from an eating disorder who has multiple checkups A WEEK with several health care professionals who are HIGHLY specialized in the field. And monkeys might fly out my butt.I don't pay much attention to the number. I eat now WHEN I am hungry and I rarely come near the 1000 mark much LESS the 1200 or above. I am still losing, my trainer and Dr aren't upset, soooooooooooooooooo..It is a number
Good luck with the long term success of that strategy.... and fyi, your doctor and trainer may know *kitten* about nutrition. Your doctor for sure, and your trainer should know better-well so should the doctor but they don't usually take more than one course in nutrition in all their years of university. There are a whole bunch of Certified Personal Trainers right here on MFP that give the worst advice, and can't even get their own health in order.... So.
Pretty sure a real live doctor that you go to and have a patient/relationship with is a far better source on what is right for the individual than the advice of a thousand talking monkeys found on the innerwebz.
ETA before I see anybody's responses- I just realized some of you might not recognize last thing as a cultural reference. It's just a line from a silly comedy, not intended to be offensive.0
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