"Metabolic Damage"
katiehrgovic
Posts: 32 Member
Just wanted to start a conversation about people's opinions & views on and experiences with "metabolic damage". I put this in parenthesis because I know that this is an arbitrary term and that this "damage" can be "repaired". Over a year and a half ago, I lost about 15 pounds by doing the HCG diet. I felt hopeless, and wanted a quick-fix to lose weight. I didn't do any research, just listened to other people's results and went ahead and did it. I wouldn't say I regret doing the HCG diet, because it sparked a real interest in nutrition in me. I do regret going about weight loss in such a way. I also developed an eating disorder from doing this diet. (I'll save that topic for another post). Back to metabolism! I feel as though my metabolism after losing the 15lbs from the HCG diet, was completely trashed. I spent way too much time doing cardio, and not enough time eating enough to fuel my work-outs. Needless to say, I have found a way out of that awful lifestyle! I recently started reverse dieting to "repair" my metabolism and have felt the utmost gratifying results. There is so much on my mind about this topic, I can't even type it all out! What do you people out there think?! What have you gone through?
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i tried that diet as well, what a waste of money and my time! I was depressed at the time, I was also wiling to do anything.
I gained everything back plus about 20 lbs, this 20lbs are still what I want to lose, though now I've learned so much more about nutrition and exercise.
I also wonder about this metabolic fixing, if there's such a thing?0 -
I was depressed when I did it as well fatnomoregirl. I feel like I effed up my body by putting an unnecessary hormone into it (I know realize that the true reason people lose weight on this diet is due to the horrific caloric deficit). I do believe that one can repair a damaged metabolism. If you are interested in the topic, google Dr. Layne Norton, he has a video blog on many body building topics and this is one of his most popular. I believe that knowledge is key when it comes to weight loss, and maintaining the weight loss as well. Good luck on reaching your goals, all the best!0
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I have a massive health-crush on Dr. Layne Norton.0
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thanks! I'm so excited to be in this journey and learning everyday about our bodies, minds and how to help them get and stay healthy. Good luck to you too- I'll send a friend request ;-)0
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action_figure, YES!0
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Until recently, I was battling with my ED for 7 years. Going from deathly thin to chubby in a matter of months, and no matter how thin I got I never looked the way I wanted to. I basically went the same route as you did, and put on some weight, started lifting weights instead of doing cardio, and I feel so much happier now. Not only about how I look, but my over all mood in general is a lot more sane and positive. I don't think many people realize how intensely your diet (or your lack of a diet) can effect not only your physical, but your mental health as well. O___O
On to the topic of metabolism, reverse dieting helped me put on 10 lbs, but it also upped my TDEE from 1700 to something closer to 3000. I'm still in the process of trying to put on weight (goal is 135), and it seems like I have to eat MORE and MORE all the time to keep my weight from dropping.0 -
An acquaintance of mine used the HCG diet to lose about 100lbs, but she rapidly gained it all back, plus some. She has quit the program but now she has found she can no longer lose weight normally; despite exercising and eating at a moderate deficit, she says the scale just won't move. Her doctor has pretty much written her off, as "you made your bed, now lay in," and hasn't given her any advice.She knows I lost weight the 'old fashioned way' and has asked for my input. This issue is far beyond my current knowledge, but it is good to read of someone who is coming back from it successfully. It makes me think she should just keep plodding away and doing it the way she is now and that she will eventually see success again. EIther that or take a full diet break for a while and give her body a rest?0
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Metabolic damage is really a misnomer. Yes you do slow down your metabolism and make it do bad things but Layne has been proven wrong on many levels. He has used biased study methods, has had his studies get poor reviews in peer review process.
I am not saying that Layne is a bad person or anything like that, he has helped many but there are many many many more people out there to learn from than that guy.
Whenever you go into ultra low calorie intake and ultra high calorie burn, your metabolism will literally say F#&K you and stop burning fat and actually store every single calorie you put into it because your body is built to survive. If you stay on that ultra low calorie diet for a long time like years, yes you will get really skinny, i.e. anorexia style skinny but otherwise in the short term your body will win the battle and you will actually get bigger vs. smaller.
Bios3training is a place to learn from, Icecreamfittness is another very great resource. Marc Lobliner of Tigerfitness gives excellent advice. (YouTube fitness channels)
If you are willing to put in the time and effort in the gym, you can virtually eat any type of food you want as long as your caloric intake is in a deficit and you will lose weight. I am living proof of that (yes that is anecdotal but it is still working. I bust my butt in the gym and eat whatever I like) Every week I go to the "fat doctor" weigh in and get my bodyfat done and every week I am down fat, up muscle, and bodyfat started 7 weeks ago at 28% and this week I am at 19.2%. I was stuck in neutral running their diet. Eating meat only with a few veg/fruit sprinkled in and ultra low calorie. 1200kcal or less a day, my body said NOPE we will not be losing weight like this. (I was working out too hard and so my metabolism went to survival mode. aka metabolic damage) As soon as I upped my calories, spread out my macros and added in the foods I like but with control, I began to see gains like I could never have hoped for otherwise.0 -
I totally agree with you on the mental effects of dieting skywa. I have always been a very evaluative person, very emotional and suffered anxiety as well. I feel so much happier now, since starting reverse dieting a month ago. I was having my nightly desert last night, and I felt so happy that I almost cried. I used to think that I couldn't eat the foods I enjoy because they weren't "clean" and that they would make me fat again. I'm so happy to have finally found a better way of living, one that is maintainable. Another very interesting web site for everyone to check out is www.impruvism.com. Armi Legge has done some amazing work on his website, and podcasts as well. I spend a lot of time on that site. I haven't gained any weight from reverse dieting, but I have gone from eating 1200 calories a day to 2000 and I can feel my body responding to the extra energy. I feel happier, stronger, and healthier. I hope to continue with increasing calories so I can put on some more muscle! Yay for being healthy and informed! ps. congratulations on overcoming your ED skywa
all the best to you in your journey! 0 -
An acquaintance of mine used the HCG diet to lose about 100lbs, but she rapidly gained it all back, plus some. She has quit the program but now she has found she can no longer lose weight normally; despite exercising and eating at a moderate deficit, she says the scale just won't move. Her doctor has pretty much written her off, as "you made your bed, now lay in," and hasn't given her any advice.She knows I lost weight the 'old fashioned way' and has asked for my input. This issue is far beyond my current knowledge, but it is good to read of someone who is coming back from it successfully. It makes me think she should just keep plodding away and doing it the way she is now and that she will eventually see success again. EIther that or take a full diet break for a while and give her body a rest?
Any doctor who "pretty much writes you off" should not be a doctor. She needs to find one who treats her with respect.
That said, were I in her position, I would calculate my BMR and TDEE, and eat my TDEE (plus eat back exercise calories) for a few weeks. Any gains or losses will allow her to tweak these numbers. Then I'd eat at a sensible deficit to lose the weight I wanted to lose.0 -
I really appreciate your advice tammadrummer00! I will check out those youtube channels, I love finding new things to watch and learn from. I am starting to see that weight-loss, weight maintenance is so much simpler than it seems. I too started to see gains like never before after I upped my cals and spread out my macros, picked up heavier weights, and dropped the steady state cardio. My brain feels so much more at ease. Congrats on all your results! Such a great accomplishment! 0
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I said that about her doctor too. However she defends him and said that he had advised her against the plan and she went ahead against his advice, so she's not upset that he's being all, "i told you so".... still, a very immature response from a medical proffessional, IMHO.An acquaintance of mine used the HCG diet to lose about 100lbs, but she rapidly gained it all back, plus some. She has quit the program but now she has found she can no longer lose weight normally; despite exercising and eating at a moderate deficit, she says the scale just won't move. Her doctor has pretty much written her off, as "you made your bed, now lay in," and hasn't given her any advice.She knows I lost weight the 'old fashioned way' and has asked for my input. This issue is far beyond my current knowledge, but it is good to read of someone who is coming back from it successfully. It makes me think she should just keep plodding away and doing it the way she is now and that she will eventually see success again. EIther that or take a full diet break for a while and give her body a rest?
Any doctor who "pretty much writes you off" should not be a doctor. She needs to find one who treats her with respect.
That said, were I in her position, I would calculate my BMR and TDEE, and eat my TDEE (plus eat back exercise calories) for a few weeks. Any gains or losses will allow her to tweak these numbers. Then I'd eat at a sensible deficit to lose the weight I wanted to lose.0 -
I said that about her doctor too. However she defends him and said that he had advised her against the plan and she went ahead against his advice, so she's not upset that he's being all, "i told you so".... still, a very immature response from a medical proffessional, IMHO.An acquaintance of mine used the HCG diet to lose about 100lbs, but she rapidly gained it all back, plus some. She has quit the program but now she has found she can no longer lose weight normally; despite exercising and eating at a moderate deficit, she says the scale just won't move. Her doctor has pretty much written her off, as "you made your bed, now lay in," and hasn't given her any advice.She knows I lost weight the 'old fashioned way' and has asked for my input. This issue is far beyond my current knowledge, but it is good to read of someone who is coming back from it successfully. It makes me think she should just keep plodding away and doing it the way she is now and that she will eventually see success again. EIther that or take a full diet break for a while and give her body a rest?
Any doctor who "pretty much writes you off" should not be a doctor. She needs to find one who treats her with respect.
That said, were I in her position, I would calculate my BMR and TDEE, and eat my TDEE (plus eat back exercise calories) for a few weeks. Any gains or losses will allow her to tweak these numbers. Then I'd eat at a sensible deficit to lose the weight I wanted to lose.
The sad truth about doctors and nutrition is that they are taught only the very basic minimum amount needed to say they were taught nutrition. As an RN the nutrition coursework I have had is actually identical to what they are required. Basically one class.
If you have the means, hiring a personal coach/nutritionist will help a huge amount. If you do not have the means, watching as much as you can about fitness and nutrition on YouTube and gleaning off the top what you know your body will benefit from will be very helpful. Also, remember that one week of weight loss/ weight gain is just that. Its a week. You have a total lifetime ahead. Do your best, spend your time in the gym and show up everyday except on your rest days and don't lower your caloric intake on your rest days too much because your body requires that energy/protein to rebuild what you have broken all week long.
Good luck and keep on making progress!0 -
Interesting topic. I think I'm in the same boat, as I've previously lost weight doing stupidly low calorie, lowered carb diets. Now that I"m eating a proper, balanced diet, at a caloric deficit, and working out daily, I'd like to see some losses on the scale, but I'm assuming that my body is still trying to get accustomed to having, ya know....FOOD. Usually by now, I'd have gotten frustrated and started hunting for an alternate method of getting the weight off, and when that didn't work, I'd try something else. Tired of weight loss shopping, I'm sticking to balanced diet, caloric deficit, work out daily. At some point, something's got to start happening.
What is reverse dieting?0 -
CeleryStalker - Reverse dieting is a common method that body builders will often use after coming out of a show. I am not a body builder, and I am not an expert on the topic, I can only speak for the research I've done (which is not a lot in some people's eyes). So basically, to lose body fat before a show, a body builder will drastically reduce their calorie intake for a certain amount of time. A common person such as myself, have used reverse dieting to "repair" my metabolism. I was eating only about 1500 calories a day, but not seeing any fat loss. (which most would as this is a moderate caloric deficit). My body had stopped burning fat, and was holding on to any fat because I was not eating enough to fuel my workouts. I have now worked up to eating about 2000 calories a day (over the period of a month.) I am also tracking my macros to make sure I have a good muscle to fat gain ratio. Basically slowly increasing calories/macros instead of decreasing to increase metabolic capacity. I'm sure other's will have different responses.
Keep doing what you're doing you're on the right track and doing the right thing. Yay for food!0 -
Bookmarking to read when I have time... Would luv to learn about this reverse dieting...0
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Hi sorry to jump in on this thread. I started a very low calorie diet in February (500 a day to be exact then moved to a 600 a day) using some form of drops they swore they didn't contain HCG, and that they only contain natural ingredients I lost a total of just over 2 stone in maybe just over a month, since coming off (I've been off a good few months) and I've gained most if it back if not all, my question is have I messed up my body?. Will I lose weight?. I'm starting the gym tomorrow and hopefully a nice healthy diet of protein, veg and fruit plus a small amount of carbs. I only like a small amount of fruit and veg making my options limited, I'm not very good at understanding diets.
I have always had a slow metabolism so I tend to bloat/store for longer than most people. What's the best workout in a gym to do I'm hoping to tone and lose weight (weights and treadmill...etc)
Sorry I'm just very clueless xx0 -
Clairie87 - Don't apologize! We're all here to help each other! I'll do my best First off, I just want to say, please never do a diet such as that one again. It is starving yourself. That is why you saw a weight loss, not because of some "magical" "natural" ingredients.
When it comes to weight loss, it is a very basic matter of calories-in vs. calories-out. You must burn more calories than you take in. Anyone following this basic principal will see weight-loss.
I don't think you have "messed-up" your body per se, but it is good that you have since decided to go about weight loss in a different way. When it comes to what you should do in the gym, I would recommend possibly hiring a personal trainer if you can. They will assist you through different workouts and hopefully tailor them to your specific goals. Not all trainers are the same, so watch out for ones that give you ridiculous meal-plans (such a super low calorie) because they have probably not taken the time to customize a plan for you specifically.
It can be very confusing, but I cannot stress enough to do your research! It will help you immensely, and you will learn so much. Keep in mind that low-carb diets are not necessarily key to losing weight. It can help you to lose weight, but carbs are our bodies favorite source of energy which is necessary for working out (and gaining muscle!). Low carb can be good for some people, but just keep a good balance of healthy food. Allow yourself to have treats once in a while, but just keep it to a moderate amount.
I hope this helps!0 -
Thank you Katie
I don't plan on doing any form of diet with that little cal intake as the food that was "allowed" wasn't enough for me as it messed up my time of the month ( never had one on that so called 'diet' ) and as soon as I started eating normally again my stomach was in agony as I suffer with IBS so this triggered it and haven't been in pain that much since a child.
Like I said I have no idea on food I was always told carbs were not good in a diet (but I like my carbs).
What would u say is a good maximum daily cal intake? 1500?
Thank you 0 -
This is all excellent advice.Clairie87 - Don't apologize! We're all here to help each other! I'll do my best First off, I just want to say, please never do a diet such as that one again. It is starving yourself. That is why you saw a weight loss, not because of some "magical" "natural" ingredients.
When it comes to weight loss, it is a very basic matter of calories-in vs. calories-out. You must burn more calories than you take in. Anyone following this basic principal will see weight-loss.
I don't think you have "messed-up" your body per se, but it is good that you have since decided to go about weight loss in a different way. When it comes to what you should do in the gym, I would recommend possibly hiring a personal trainer if you can. They will assist you through different workouts and hopefully tailor them to your specific goals. Not all trainers are the same, so watch out for ones that give you ridiculous meal-plans (such a super low calorie) because they have probably not taken the time to customize a plan for you specifically.
It can be very confusing, but I cannot stress enough to do your research! It will help you immensely, and you will learn so much. Keep in mind that low-carb diets are not necessarily key to losing weight. It can help you to lose weight, but carbs are our bodies favorite source of energy which is necessary for working out (and gaining muscle!). Low carb can be good for some people, but just keep a good balance of healthy food. Allow yourself to have treats once in a while, but just keep it to a moderate amount.
I hope this helps!
These are some great links if you need more info on how to get started:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/833026-important-posts-to-read
And Here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants0 -
Thank you Katie
I don't plan on doing any form of diet with that little cal intake as the food that was "allowed" wasn't enough for me as it messed up my time of the month ( never had one on that so called 'diet' ) and as soon as I started eating normally again my stomach was in agony as I suffer with IBS so this triggered it and haven't been in pain that much since a child.
Like I said I have no idea on food I was always told carbs were not good in a diet (but I like my carbs).
What would u say is a good maximum daily cal intake? 1500?
Thank you
Eating that little can definitely mess up your menstrual cycle. I have not had mine in over a year, and I am trying desperately to get it back (with the help of my GP & a Gyno) I would seek medical help if this happens to you again.
And in regards to your question of how much to eat, I really cannot advise a number for you. It depends on how active you are. But just keep in mind that most women need about 2000 to maintain. This is very arbitrary. I would go to a website with a TDEE calculator to find out. Eating slightly under your maintenance will result in weight loss. Ensure that you are eating enough to fuel any activity you do.
Try this website http://www.fitnessfrog.com/calculators/tdee-calculator.html0 -
Thank you again your help is much appreciated, I will definitely look into it, I am a mum to 3 boys so I am quite active with school runs and with my youngest being 12 months who is also a little chunk so lifting him is like weight lifting and he isn't crawling yet, and I'm hoping going to the gym will put a big boost into the weight loss.
Thankfully my menstrul cycle has almost returned to normal after a good few months of being messed up, any I'm usually on time give or take a few days.
As of 2moro is day one and I'm going to try eat as normal but healthy as possible please may I add you as a friend? I would appreciate all the support I can get lol 0 -
no such thing as metabolic damage. even l. norton has back tracked on some of the things he said. there is metabolic adaptation the same way there is cardiovascular adaptation, and muscular adaptation.0
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Oh my goodness, 3 boys! You must be supermom! So much respect for you! Glad to hear that your hormones have sorted themselves out, it can be worrisome. Good luck in all your endeavors, always remember that there are people who believe in you, and never forget to believe in yourself as well! Of course you can add me as a friend, ask any question any time! 0
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no such thing as metabolic damage. even l. norton has back tracked on some of the things he said. there is metabolic adaptation the same way there is cardiovascular adaptation, and muscular adaptation.
Yes, I realize this is an arbitrary term. I wish I knew more about the subject myself, but that is why I wanted to start the thread! I do believe metabolic adaptation is a much better fitting term. Thanks for your input baptiste565 0 -
Thank you Katie
I wouldn't say supermum they are very tiring and I have a wonderful husband who helps me a lot.
Thank you again your advice has been a HUGE help and I appreciate it MASSIVELY xx 0 -
People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.0 -
People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.
Wow, you know your stuff! Thank you *bows*0 -
Bump Need to reread!!0
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bumpity0
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