Government shutdown

saschka7

Hegelian dialectic - look it up... It explains this entire mess.... Unfortunately most of the public are willfully ignorant

I never thought in a million years that I would EVER see a Hegel reference in the forums. Government shutdown, be damned, I feel chipper enough now to go get ice cream. :drinker:

jwdieter

Most people qualify for subsidies when they buy health care on the exchange. Have you checked?

Yup and no...its an unaffordable act for those who have worked very hard to make a decent wage above the 400% cut off.

I would also argue that if you really look at it anyone making about 300% to 200% would also find it expensive.

Well I browsed plans and, while I didn't qualify for assistance, I could easily afford full coverage zero deductible for my entire family if my work did not provide health care. Was less than $10k/year, and the price didn't rise with income (past assistance level). The more I make, the easier it is to afford. Maybe this differs by state.

It is definitely by state I can expect to pay $10K a year...not affordable. Remember this is also looking at the low tiered bronze plan with a $5000 deductible and a 40% share of cost.

For one person? That's laughably bad. I'm seeing a platinum plan for 3, at ~800/month. Sorry to hear your options suck.

Edit: I didn't test income levels above $500k/year. Prices didn't change up to that, and I assume this isn't a particularly relevant issue for over $500k families.

OK now my curiosity is peaked because these are not the numbers I have been seeing and espeically for Pt tier!!! Without being intrustive and i guess there is no way around this what state are you from would you say that your income is above the 400% cut off?

If I chose the Pt plan that would put my monthly premiums at $547! Although to add the high deductible plan isnt as high as I had once estimated, but it's still double what I pay now. Which has been the general expectation for CA.

Now I added a dependent because I'm 26 weeks pregnant the plan jumps to $482 a month for bronze and for curiosity sake Pt is now $830. That after the birth of my child. Yeah real affordable for a family...note sarcasm. Ag is $595!!!!

I'm one state up, and above the 400% tier. From what I'm seeing, the best possible plan in the marketplace for me costs less than what our employers are currently paying for health care.

Edit: I looked at options for Downtown SF (just a random place that seemed like it'd be high price), and yeah Silver plan for little over $900, and no gold or platinum options. Kinda crappy. But I have no idea what people are used to paying there to start with.

ladymiseryali

no country can be deemed civilized without access to health care for all

this is just wrong.

Wait, it's wrong for people to have healthcare or it's wrong that people don't?

whierd

What kills me are the people who want to blame both sides 'equally' for this shut down. It IS the law of the land, and only one 'side' has been against it.

What kills me is people actually think there are two sides lol

There is only one side and they are all working for the same goal!

I'd like to think one day people will take their blinders off but sadly it's much easier to handle it all if they don't

IKR? Both sides of the aisle are just there for the power grab. Very few on either side actually believe the crap that comes out of their mouths.

whierd

no country can be deemed civilized without access to health care for all

this is just wrong.

Wait, it's wrong for people to have healthcare or it's wrong that people don't?

It is neither.

ldrosophila

Can someone remind me why a flat rate insurance plan doesnt work for healthcare? Why cant it be like car insurance that's affordable.

Enhance medicaid to those who cant afford the flat rate.

Kitship

no country can be deemed civilized without access to health care for all

this is just wrong.

Wait, it's wrong for people to have healthcare or it's wrong that people don't?

Wrong to say that a country is not civilized until every citizen of that country has access to healthcare.

whierd

Can someone remind me why a flat rate insurance plan doesnt work for healthcare? Why cant it be like car insurance that's affordable.

Enhance medicaid to those who can afford the flat rate.

Because not everyone has the same health risks as others. A person with a poor driving record will pay a higher premium. A person who is obese and smokes will pay a higher premium.

ironanimal

no country can be deemed civilized without access to health care for all

this is just wrong.

Wait, it's wrong for people to have healthcare or it's wrong that people don't?

Wrong to say that a country is not civilized until every citizen of that country has access to healthcare.

I would actually tend to agree. Being allowed to die somewhere because you can't afford healthcare for something that is treatable is pretty primeval.

This is not to say Obamacare is the right way to go about it, since I'm ignorant of the intricacies of the system, but I do think access to health care for all is a good indicator of progression in civilisation.

ldrosophila

Can someone remind me why a flat rate insurance plan doesnt work for healthcare? Why cant it be like car insurance that's affordable.

Enhance medicaid to those who can afford the flat rate.

Because not everyone has the same health risks as others. A person with a poor driving record will pay a higher premium. A person who is obese and smokes will pay a higher premium.

What if all (how many Americans are there now 350 million?) Americans paid some arbitrary number $200 a month and $100 for each dependent now you spread that throughout the country would that make healthcare affordable? Of course that gets into the whole cost control thing, and do we put a cap on what a surgeon can charge or a hospital can charge for overhead? If you want the cadillac plan thats great you just have to pay more. How would that work? Now is a doctor forced to take the insurance plan or can they deny it if they arent remibursed enough? Theres gotta be a way for us Americans to have our cake and eat it too.

Can doctors not accept Obamacare?

ladymiseryali

no country can be deemed civilized without access to health care for all

this is just wrong.

Wait, it's wrong for people to have healthcare or it's wrong that people don't?

Wrong to say that a country is not civilized until every citizen of that country has access to healthcare.

Why? Taking care of everyone should be a sign of a civilized country, but maybe I'm just a dreamer....

jessjoye

What kills me are the people who want to blame both sides 'equally' for this shut down. It IS the law of the land, and only one 'side' has been against it.

What kills me is people actually think there are two sides lol

There is only one side and they are all working for the same goal!

I'd like to think one day people will take their blinders off but sadly it's much easier to handle it all if they don't

IKR? Both sides of the aisle are just there for the power grab. Very few on either side actually believe the crap that comes out of their mouths.

This is just like a relay race... when one person drops the baton both parties are equally responsible! The republicans and democrats are both idiots and equally dropped it on the ground and now it is time to act like grown ups and instead of pointing fingers find a resolution so everyone I know can get back to work and play nice!

whierd

Can someone remind me why a flat rate insurance plan doesnt work for healthcare? Why cant it be like car insurance that's affordable.

Enhance medicaid to those who can afford the flat rate.

Because not everyone has the same health risks as others. A person with a poor driving record will pay a higher premium. A person who is obese and smokes will pay a higher premium.

What if all (how many Americans are there now 350 million?) Americans paid some arbitrary number $200 a month and $100 for each dependent now you spread that throughout the country would that make healthcare affordable? Of course that gets into the whole cost control thing, and do we put a cap on what a surgeon can charge or a hospital can charge for overhead? If you want the cadillac plan thats great you just have to pay more. How would that work? Now is a doctor forced to take the insurance plan or can they deny it if they arent remibursed enough? Theres gotta be a way for us Americans to have our cake and eat it too.

Well...

-That would mean that healthy people are being forced to subsidize unhealthy people.
-Private companies are not allowed to set their own rates.
-Doctors/hospitals are not allowed to set their own rates.

That is essentially just a bandaid solution.

The underlying issues to health care are:

-Lack of transparency in pricing, making it difficult to impossible to be a responsible consumer and shop around.
-A litigious culture with frivolous judgements causing doctors to pay more for insurance and also perform unnecessary testing to cover their own behinds.
-Medicare regulations requiring hospitals and private practices to hire extra staff to deal with the billing.
-Medicare payments being notoriously low, causing doctors to try to make up the difference elsewhere.
-Non-emergency emergency room visits.
-Uninsured emergency room visits.

As well as several other factors.

whierd

no country can be deemed civilized without access to health care for all

this is just wrong.

Wait, it's wrong for people to have healthcare or it's wrong that people don't?

Wrong to say that a country is not civilized until every citizen of that country has access to healthcare.

Why? Taking care of everyone should be a sign of a civilized country, but maybe I'm just a dreamer....

It is not my responsibility to take care of you and your loved ones.

CarmenSRT

Unfortunately those cheering the madness on fail to realize that now EITHER side can use that tactic, not just the people they agree with. Sound like a good thing now?

This has already happened 17 other times in the last 30 years. Both sides have used this tactic before.

You need to know more than a bare fact like that. Look into the past incidents and you'll see this time is its own beast. It is pure hostage taking.

michellechawner

I won't get political, I'm just glad I got off disability THIS WEEK before the government shut down. Yesterday was my first day back. I can't imagine not getting the paycheck to help cover the bills (and even that, it's not even enough to pay my rent, as disability is I believe 60% of regular pay?)

I won't say who is wrong or right, but can't believe we are that pigheaded to not try and reach a resolution.

Same with Doctors making millions and teachers getting paid crap, and we wonder why things go as downhill as they do...

mammamaurer

vtmoon

4 hours, I'm impressed.

I need the government to stay shut until the Dow is under 14000.

whierd

4 hours, I'm impressed.

I need the government to stay shut until the Dow is under 14000.

Shorting?

Mobilemuscle

4 hours, I'm impressed.

I need the government to stay shut until the Dow is under 14000.

if anything the markets will likely break higher.... the shutdown doesnt mean the fed is going to stop monetizing debt. As long as the debt ceiling is raised(and it will be).... the bubble continues to grow

Canman51

You get the government you deserve people. Simple as that.

samiyan05

So, how bout that Miley Cyrus eh? Haha jk
I love intelligent conversation:)..... Continue

whierd

So, how bout that Miley Cyrus eh? Haha jk
I love intelligent conversation:)..... Continue

There is precious little of that going on here.

dcarr67

Well I have to say this hasn't gotten as bad as I thought it would, however it is still off on a tangent. My ***** is that I am out of work while the morons that created the mess and refuse to work towards an agreement, are all still collecting a check.

I would love to get into the politics of it all but that is really for another venue. I would have bet there would have been a lot more people that didn't agree with me, or someone to call me a rich idiot or something. So I must admit, I am glad I made the post.

Thanks for letting me vent and for playing along. 4 hours strong. Nice

samiyan05

So, how bout that Miley Cyrus eh? Haha jk
I love intelligent conversation:)..... Continue

There is precious little of that going on here.

Haha I try not to be deliberately insulting but I'm inclined to agree lol

whierd

So, how bout that Miley Cyrus eh? Haha jk
I love intelligent conversation:)..... Continue

There is precious little of that going on here.

Haha I try not to be deliberately insulting but I'm inclined to agree lol

That was me trying to mask it the best I can. :laugh:

Ed98043

Can doctors not accept Obamacare?

Obamacare is a regulatory system affecting existing health insurers and Medicaid/Medicare. It's not a health care insurer. If I get insurance through the exchange I won't get an Obamacare card, it'll just be insurance through a regular provider. The difference will be that A. They can't turn me away due to a pre-existing condition, and B. They have to charge me the same premium as other people of my age and location even if I have a pre-existing condition, and C. If I made less than $45,960 as an individual I would qualify to have my insurance premiums subsidized by the government.

whierd

Can doctors not accept Obamacare?

Obamacare is a regulatory system affecting existing health insurers and Medicaid/Medicare. It's not a health care insurer. If I get insurance through the exchange I won't get an Obamacare card, it'll just be insurance through a regular provider. The difference will be that A. They can't turn me away due to a pre-existing condition, and B. They have to charge me the same premium as other people of my age and location even if I have a pre-existing condition, and C. If I made less than $45,960 as an individual I would qualify to have my insurance premiums subsidized by the government.

Yep.