Doctor Says Phentermine Long Term Not a Problem....Really?
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Give it up...really...please....it is getting old.
I am doing south beach...the phentermine by far helps with the low carb diet and is keeping me motivated..... so enough already from the anti-phentermine crowd. There is no harm with me taking it and there is only a benefit if I do.
What do you mean the phentermine helps with your low carb diet? In what way?
For me, I was not able to stay on low carb/no carb diet like I usually do because of being pregnant and breast feeding. Thus, when I was finally able to go back to doing low carb, it has helped me stick to doing the south beach/Atkins/Low carb/low GI way of life and keep me motivated (along with the metphormin and birth control pills), The heavier I am, the hungrier I usually am and understand some of that has to do with the insulin resistance and how my body reacts to carbs. When I lost weight on it before it helped me not fall off the wagon until I was ok with the diet and activity I had gotten myself into a lifestyle habit of doing and eating a certain way.
Right now with 2 kids, I can't just run to the gym like I used to for 2 hours, which exercise has always helped with my insulin resistance and hunger...so I do what I can with what I can now. Regardless of what people keep posting, their is not negative to me taking it, so I am using it in conjunction with diet and exercise til I get into the behavioral lifestyle habit again along with keeping me motivated on on track....just as it is suppose to be used....not long term from what I knew until this doctor told me otherwise.0 -
Have you ever tried to lose weight using the low carb diet and exercise which is recommended for people with PCOS?
Is there a specific diet recommended for people with PCOS? I have typically done a South Beach/Atkins hybrid.0 -
Give it up...really...please....it is getting old.
I am doing south beach...the phentermine by far helps with the low carb diet and is keeping me motivated..... so enough already from the anti-phentermine crowd. There is no harm with me taking it and there is only a benefit if I do.
So there are numerous posts extolling the WELL KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED dangers of phentermine and your response is that there is no harm in your taking it? Did you even read any of the posts? At this point I just have to assume you are being intentionally obtuse because that's the only plausible explanation I can come up with.
Please post these WELL KNOW AND DOCUMENTED dangers of phentermine. Every medical journal I have read has not had statistically significant dangers associated with its use with healthy people, except when it was combined with fenfluramine or dexfenfluramine. Listing side effects is NOT the same as a proven danger either. Every medicine I take has a laundry list of side effects and have to by law put them there via the FDA and thus it is up to the consumer to weight the pros and cons. As i have said, never had a problem then or now. So I beg to differ on the one who is being obtuse here.0 -
I do south beach as stated in previous post. Again, I was not concerned. Even with south beach lifestyle, apparently women with PCOS eventually gain it back or struggle keeping it off per this doctor...so I am not sure what to believe.
I'd say while that may be your doctor's experience, that it doesn't have to be YOUR experience with PCOS and weight gain. I know others with it that don't use weight loss drugs and just have to work a bit harder to keep it off, but like anyone else with a medical condition that affects weight loss, they deal with it.
I *know* that's not what you want to hear. You want someone to wave a magic wand and either confirm or deny your physician. I'd suggest that the internet is not the place for that - a second physician's opinion is. We can't know all the ins and outs of your specific case, nor can we judge how competent your doctor is. Though I'd suggest that long-term usage of any drug can have serious consequences, and that if you're concerned, a second opinion is warranted. I personally think you could regulate it without and that you shouldn't buy into your doctor's negativity about it, but that's just me and how I would handle it. You are, obviously, not me
I have no expectation of what I want to hear or not hear....other than people lecturing me on how evil Phentermine is....which again is not the point of this post....I just wanted to see what people had heard or been told when they were on it.
I on my gut already scheduled another appointment with a weight loss doctor for next week to get a second opinion. Wanted to know from other people who were prescribed this what they were told and to search for some consistency.
I also before this doctor telling me I am pretty much doomed (again even with low carb living) I was just going to be a yo-yo. Common sense would tell you "How could this be?" but....I am not a doctor...so information mining I go.0 -
EDIT: Oooh, found one study where apparently people had been on it 21 years. Wow.
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Int J Obes (Lond). 2013 May 17. doi: 10.1038/ijo.2013.74. [Epub ahead of print]
Addiction potential of phentermine prescribed during long-term treatment of obesity.
Hendricks EJ, Srisurapanont M, Schmidt SL, Haggard M, Souter S, Mitchell CL, De Marco DG, Hendricks MJ, Istratiy Y, Greenway FL.
Source
Amphetamine-like withdrawal does not occur upon abrupt treatment cessation even at doses much higher than commonly recommended and after treatment durations of up to 21 years.International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 11 June 2013; doi:10.1038/ijo.2013.74.
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This was just published this year. It seems that blanket statements about its use being 'bad' and 'dangerous' are not necessarily accurate.
[/quote]
Great find. I am going to go look at the rest of the article. Thanks :-)0 -
The problem may be the South Beach Diet itself--if you're avoiding saturated fats, eating whole grains and a bunch of fruits, of course it will be very difficult to stay low carb. My initial reaction to someone having trouble staying low carb on a diet that is meant to be low carb is that either the diet itself is a total fail, or they're simply doing it wrong. You should not have any sort of hunger pangs or cravings distracting you from the diet, and you should feel quite happy and satisfied. I started out at 265 lbs, which is morbidly obese, insulin resistant, all sorts of issues. I felt like crap all the time. So yes, I definitely knew what it felt like to be super HUNGRY and out of control. I didn't have a whole lot of faith in this low carb thing, but the alternative was to remain ill, and I couldn't deal with that, either. After the first week of eating high fat/low carb, I was stuck in and had absolutely zero sugar cravings and no hunger pangs to battle. I only found myself hungry right around meal times, and didn't struggle to control myself with my portions or anything of that nature. It worked incredibly well. I personally followed a low carb paleo diet, as in addition to the PCOS and insulin resistance, I also have some food sensitivities (gluten and lactose, mainly) that were easily accounted for by following that way of eating.
Have you tried any other low carb approaches? You might find a different way of eating that would work out better for you.0 -
The problem may be the South Beach Diet itself--if you're avoiding saturated fats, eating whole grains and a bunch of fruits, of course it will be very difficult to stay low carb. My initial reaction to someone having trouble staying low carb on a diet that is meant to be low carb is that either the diet itself is a total fail, or they're simply doing it wrong. You should not have any sort of hunger pangs or cravings distracting you from the diet, and you should feel quite happy and satisfied. I started out at 265 lbs, which is morbidly obese, insulin resistant, all sorts of issues. I felt like crap all the time. So yes, I definitely knew what it felt like to be super HUNGRY and out of control. I didn't have a whole lot of faith in this low carb thing, but the alternative was to remain ill, and I couldn't deal with that, either. After the first week of eating high fat/low carb, I was stuck in and had absolutely zero sugar cravings and no hunger pangs to battle. I only found myself hungry right around meal times, and didn't struggle to control myself with my portions or anything of that nature. It worked incredibly well. I personally followed a low carb paleo diet, as in addition to the PCOS and insulin resistance, I also have some food sensitivities (gluten and lactose, mainly) that were easily accounted for by following that way of eating.
Have you tried any other low carb approaches? You might find a different way of eating that would work out better for you.
Akins I tried...it was too restrictive, I consistently fell off the wagon even when I would lose the weight...I was craving things like things like Milk and some types of fruit I typically enjoyed. South Beach was much better, but felt at times it allowed me too many carbs, like you mentioned too much fruit, etc. I researched the paleo diet and can tell by looking at how restrictive it is, there would be no way I could stick with it. The best that has worked for me (and one that I worked out with my nutritionist) was a south beach/akins hybrid in which all of what you mentioned (i.e good fats, avoiding things like bacon and fatty red meats, increasing fiber, whole grains, I could enjoy some lower GI fruits,etc.) and I keep my carb count 40-60 carbs a day and trying not going over 20 carbs per meal. I also monitor my blood sugar (I am not diabetic, but like to see what my blood sugar is doing after a meal) and consistently they remain good when I work with in these parameters. Thus, I am happy with this approach.
However, I still get hungrier when I am heavier despite this low carb approach. The more weight I lose, I tend not to eat as much...and this obviously just biology. When I got down to my goal weight before I could eat 1500 cal a day on a low carb lifestyle and not feel as though I was hungry. Thus, this is why using the Phentermine is so very helpful as I work through getting back on track again.
Additionally, if there was a one-size-fits-all approach to dieting that worked, there would not be so many approaches out there in which some work for folks and others do not. I know what works for me after years of trial and error. I just am hoping staying this course over the years will be sufficient despite what the Doctor I went to predicted for someone like me.0 -
I should have put this disclaimer out their before for the "Phentermine is bad" crowd. Please quit posting about how horrible Phentermine is. Diabetes is also horrible and does terrible things to you body. There are all kinds of physical ailments related to obesity that are much worse than phentermine....so please no more posts about how bad phentermine is OK?
it isnt available on prescription in the uk (or a range of other european countries where big pharma finds it harder to buy political influence...). Have you paused to consider why?
perhaps the 'crowd' have a point?
I'm in the UK and have "bought" phentermine on prescription from a back street Dr a few times over the years. Lost the weight & regained the weight eventually after stopping every time. Sometimes it's taken a couple of years, but it always creeps back on. Phentermine eventually causes tolerance to it. Which is why the GP at the slimming clinic always would dish it out for 12wks & then you had to take a break for it to become effective again. Bearing in mind these clinics are charging you for the meds I would think if it was effective to take them full time they would encourage it.0 -
OP asks for information, receives information and then asks a certain group of people to stop responding because she is going to do it anyway? Sounds about right.
To be fair, she asked for a specific set of information.
OP, when you post on a public forum, you HAVE to expect that everyone is going to chime in with their opinion. Snarking at people who aren't giving you the feedback you want is a waste of time and energy and kinda defeats the purpose of a public forum IMHO.
EDIT: Oooh, found one study where apparently people had been on it 21 years. Wow.
________________________________________________________________________________
Int J Obes (Lond). 2013 May 17. doi: 10.1038/ijo.2013.74. [Epub ahead of print]
Addiction potential of phentermine prescribed during long-term treatment of obesity.
Hendricks EJ, Srisurapanont M, Schmidt SL, Haggard M, Souter S, Mitchell CL, De Marco DG, Hendricks MJ, Istratiy Y, Greenway FL.
Source
Center for Weight Management, Roseville, CA, USA.
Abstract
Objective:To investigate if phentermine treatment induces phentermine abuse, psychological dependence (addiction) or phentermine drug craving in overweight, obese and weight loss maintenance patients. To investigate whether amphetamine-like withdrawal occurs after abrupt cessation of long-term phentermine treatment.Design:Clinical intervention trial with interruption of phentermine treatment in long-term patients.Subjects:269 obese, overweight or formerly obese subjects (age: 20-88 years, BMI: 21-74 kg m-2) treated with phentermine long-term (LTP, N=117), 1.1-21.1 years, or short-term (ATP, N=152), 4-22 days, with phentermine doses of 18.75-112.5 (LTP) and 15-93.75 (ATP) mg per day.Measurements:Module K of the Mini International Neuropsychiatric Interview modified for phentermine (MINI-SUD), Severity of Dependence Scale (SDS), 45-item Cocaine Craving Questionnaire-NOW (CCQ-NOW) modified for phentermine (PCQ-NOW), and Amphetamine Withdrawal Questionnaire (AWQ) modified for phentermine (PWQ).Results:MINI-SUD interviews were negative for phentermine abuse or psychological dependence in all LTP patients. SDS examination scores were low for all LTP and ATP patients, indicating they were not psychologically dependent upon phentermine. PCQ-NOW scores were low for all LTP and ATP patients, indicating neither short-term nor long-term phentermine treatment had induced phentermine craving. Other than an increase in hunger or eating, amphetamine-like withdrawal symptoms did not occur upon abrupt phentermine cessation as measured by sequential PWQ scores.Conclusions:Phentermine abuse or psychological dependence (addiction) does not occur in patients treated with phentermine for obesity. Phentermine treatment does not induce phentermine drug craving, a hallmark sign of addiction. Amphetamine-like withdrawal does not occur upon abrupt treatment cessation even at doses much higher than commonly recommended and after treatment durations of up to 21 years.International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 11 June 2013; doi:10.1038/ijo.2013.74.
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This was just published this year. It seems that blanket statements about its use being 'bad' and 'dangerous' are not necessarily accurate.
May I suggest you read the other conclusions of that study. Yeah, there is a nice little surprise in there.
You are going to have to spell it out for me I guess, because I don't see any 'nice little surprises'.
Beuler? Beuler?
Notice the amount of obese individuals on phentermine with long term use?
What do you think of the effectiveness?0 -
I took phen for a while but had to stop because of how it was making me feel and behave. Plus I was gettin bad headaches and the shakes and was just in an all around bad mood. Its different with everyone though. But to answer part of your question, my. Doctor told me that phen was for short term use only because after awhile the body becomes used to it and because of all the side effects that come with it long term. I haven't actually found any info to back what he said up, I'm just going by what he told me though. Hopeit helped some
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The problem may be the South Beach Diet itself--if you're avoiding saturated fats, eating whole grains and a bunch of fruits, of course it will be very difficult to stay low carb. My initial reaction to someone having trouble staying low carb on a diet that is meant to be low carb is that either the diet itself is a total fail, or they're simply doing it wrong. You should not have any sort of hunger pangs or cravings distracting you from the diet, and you should feel quite happy and satisfied. I started out at 265 lbs, which is morbidly obese, insulin resistant, all sorts of issues. I felt like crap all the time. So yes, I definitely knew what it felt like to be super HUNGRY and out of control. I didn't have a whole lot of faith in this low carb thing, but the alternative was to remain ill, and I couldn't deal with that, either. After the first week of eating high fat/low carb, I was stuck in and had absolutely zero sugar cravings and no hunger pangs to battle. I only found myself hungry right around meal times, and didn't struggle to control myself with my portions or anything of that nature. It worked incredibly well. I personally followed a low carb paleo diet, as in addition to the PCOS and insulin resistance, I also have some food sensitivities (gluten and lactose, mainly) that were easily accounted for by following that way of eating.
Have you tried any other low carb approaches? You might find a different way of eating that would work out better for you.
Akins I tried...it was too restrictive, I consistently fell off the wagon even when I would lose the weight...I was craving things like things like Milk and some types of fruit I typically enjoyed. South Beach was much better, but felt at times it allowed me too many carbs, like you mentioned too much fruit, etc. I researched the paleo diet and can tell by looking at how restrictive it is, there would be no way I could stick with it. The best that has worked for me (and one that I worked out with my nutritionist) was a south beach/akins hybrid in which all of what you mentioned (i.e good fats, avoiding things like bacon and fatty red meats, increasing fiber, whole grains, I could enjoy some lower GI fruits,etc.) and I keep my carb count 40-60 carbs a day and trying not going over 20 carbs per meal. I also monitor my blood sugar (I am not diabetic, but like to see what my blood sugar is doing after a meal) and consistently they remain good when I work with in these parameters. Thus, I am happy with this approach.
However, I still get hungrier when I am heavier despite this low carb approach. The more weight I lose, I tend not to eat as much...and this obviously just biology. When I got down to my goal weight before I could eat 1500 cal a day on a low carb lifestyle and not feel as though I was hungry. Thus, this is why using the Phentermine is so very helpful as I work through getting back on track again.
Additionally, if there was a one-size-fits-all approach to dieting that worked, there would not be so many approaches out there in which some work for folks and others do not. I know what works for me after years of trial and error. I just am hoping staying this course over the years will be sufficient despite what the Doctor I went to predicted for someone like me.
What I'm getting at is that you're getting hungrier because of the fruit/grains, and most importantly, the avoidance of healthy saturated fats.
Of course there isn't a one size fits all approach to anything, but people who successfully stay low carb understand the carbs/fat thing quite well. If we all had to battle hunger pangs and outrageous carb cravings, it just wouldn't work for anyone. Low fat AND low carb is a recipe for disaster, and I don't just mean with compliance with the diet, but more importantly, in terms of your health. And let's be real: if your "hybrid South Beach/Atkins" diet worked so well for you, you wouldn't need to depend on a diet pill.
I realise from your posts here that you're hell bent on having the drug, but honestly, there is absolutely no need for diet pills, period. You're about 50 lbs overweight, right? That's what it looks like from your ticker. Worrying about the impending threat of diabetes is sensible, and you do need to get the excess fat off you, but it's not like the danger of diabetes at your weight should make you think you need this pill. To avoid diabetes, you'll have to improve your diet/exercise. The pill doesn't teach you any of that and isn't going to help you avoid diabetes in any way. Changing your diet and figuring out how you're going to make exercise part of your busy life is exactly what will.
All the best, :flowerforyou:0 -
This whole debate about people shouldn't take phentermine is very silly. It is like trying to convince someone not to take a Tylenol when they have a headache cause there is a risk they could hurt their liver or tell someone not to take birth control pills because they could get a blood clot.
There is no reason for me not to take phentermine if it is helpful and safe.... or anyone else who wanted to for that matter. I am surprised at the judgement regarding this drug and the statement "You wouldn't need it if you did low carb". If just going low carb worked for me at this stage I OBVIOUSLY would not be seeking additional help. If this medicine makes it easier to stick to a diet and a plan and keep me motivated and get back into a habit of a low carb liefstyle...why wouldn't I use it? People do many things to help them behaviorally to lose weight and this is no different...other than the apparent hysteria and ignorance surrounding this medicine.
AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES AS FAR AS DIET AND EXERCISE....I AM NOT NEW TO THIS! Please quit telling me what I need to do. I am seeing a doctor and a nutritionist as well as exercising when I can in between taking care of a baby and a preschooler. I am not here asking advice on diet and exercise. I was very specific on what I was asking in the OP.
Also, as I stated before, being low carb isn't the magic pill of beating hunger when you have PCOS and are overweight or obese. The closer women get to an ideal weight the less their body responds to hunger and insulin. This based in biology and not a matter of will power.
Women with PCOS, weight gain is mostly due to high levels of insulin circulating in the blood. Cells normally absorb glucose with the help of insulin. When cells don’t respond normally to insulin, your body produces even more insulin, to “force” the cells into responding. When insulin levels rise, other hormonal changes can lead to increased appetite and decreased fat burning, which lead to weight gain. As you lose weight this hormonal and insulin response decreases, thus so does your hunger. And a persons hunger level is totally different from person to person based on the level of hormonal imbalance and insulin resistance. Thus, your "Just eat low carb" doesn't always work for every person as far as hunger control. That is great it worked for you....but please do not be so judgmental with regards to other people and assume they are doing something wrong, not doing enough with their diet or exercise plan or don't have enough will power.0 -
There will always be those who are hellbent on not taking supplements or drugs and are very vocal about stating their opinions as facts. The analogy with Tylenol was a good one.
Good luck OP. :flowerforyou:0 -
Thanks for the posts...... except for the ones where people are telling me I am hurting my body by taking phentermine.
I never asked in my OP if I should or should not take phentermine. So everyone that keeps posting that somehow I am going to cause myself to have a stroke or heart attack and that I will become addicted cause I am taking an amphetamine and giving my body poison....you all need to do your homework more and research scholarly journals.
I have no side effects other than reduced appetite and have no medical conditions that would preclude me using the drug safely...and have used it safely in the past and was extremely effective in helping me lose weight and I was able to keep it off until I got pregnant. It is safe for someone like me with no heart conditions or other serious medical conditions and has been studied the longest
What DID have me concerned as I stated in my OP is my doctors tale that women can stay on it pretty much indefinitely and that he would recommend women to stay on it with serious PCOS symptoms....that had me concerned as I was also always taught it was a short term solution in conjunction with diet and exercise....just as other people have posted here.
What also concerned me was his stance that I am pretty much "doomed" to be a yo-yo for the rest of my life because of the PCOS (despite low carb eating) and that phentermine was the way this was going to help me not be a doomed Yo-yo. The endocrinologist was another doctor who gave me the 75% of women with PCOS get Diabetes...pretty much giving me another doomed scenario of being a diabetic in the future... so thanks for the links that stated otherwise.
So overall the takeaway here is it looks like I have a bad weight loss doctor and and bad endocrinologist and need to find a new one of each.
Again, losing the weight is not an issue for me, with or without the phentermine, as I have done so many times in my life I have lost count.... and I know what it takes and I know what works. I just don't want to be a perpetual yo-yo like what was being predicted to me by this doctor as well as domed to be a diabetic no matter what I do as per the other doctor.
If you want to stop being a yo yo dieter, and want to keep off the calories, then keep on eating below a calorie deficit and then you will not become a yo yo dieter and will not need phentermine to keep the wieght off. People go back to their old eating habits and that is why people regain weight.0 -
I yo-yo-ed cause I got pregnant x2...not because the phentermine. I was able to keep the weight off after I used phentermine up until the time I got pregnant again.
Thanks for pointing out how people gain weight.....I didn't know that.0 -
This whole debate about people shouldn't take phentermine is very silly. It is like trying to convince someone not to take a Tylenol when they have a headache cause there is a risk they could hurt their liver or tell someone not to take birth control pills because they could get a blood clot.
There is no reason for me not to take phentermine if it is helpful and safe.... or anyone else who wanted to for that matter. I am surprised at the judgement regarding this drug and the statement "You wouldn't need it if you did low carb". If just going low carb worked for me at this stage I OBVIOUSLY would not be seeking additional help. If this medicine makes it easier to stick to a diet and a plan and keep me motivated and get back into a habit of a low carb liefstyle...why wouldn't I use it? People do many things to help them behaviorally to lose weight and this is no different...other than the apparent hysteria and ignorance surrounding this medicine.
AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES AS FAR AS DIET AND EXERCISE....I AM NOT NEW TO THIS! Please quit telling me what I need to do. I am seeing a doctor and a nutritionist as well as exercising when I can in between taking care of a baby and a preschooler. I am not here asking advice on diet and exercise. I was very specific on what I was asking in the OP.
Also, as I stated before, being low carb isn't the magic pill of beating hunger when you have PCOS and are overweight or obese. The closer women get to an ideal weight the less their body responds to hunger and insulin. This based in biology and not a matter of will power.
Women with PCOS, weight gain is mostly due to high levels of insulin circulating in the blood. Cells normally absorb glucose with the help of insulin. When cells don’t respond normally to insulin, your body produces even more insulin, to “force” the cells into responding. When insulin levels rise, other hormonal changes can lead to increased appetite and decreased fat burning, which lead to weight gain. As you lose weight this hormonal and insulin response decreases, thus so does your hunger. And a persons hunger level is totally different from person to person based on the level of hormonal imbalance and insulin resistance. Thus, your "Just eat low carb" doesn't always work for every person as far as hunger control. That is great it worked for you....but please do not be so judgmental with regards to other people and assume they are doing something wrong, not doing enough with their diet or exercise plan or don't have enough will power.
I GUESS YOU MISSED THE PART WHERE I SAID I HAVE PCOS and am INSULIN RESISTANT. I WAS MORBIDLY OBESE...265 LBS. I DID NOT NEED PHENTERMINE OR ANY OTHER "BEHAVIOURAL" MEDICATION TO FOLLOW A LOW CARB HIGH FAT DIET AND LOSE OVER 100 POUNDS.
MY SUCCESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "WILLPOWER" AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EATING CORRECTLY FOR MY HEALTH ISSUES AND EXERCISING REGULARLY, AND IN THE PROPER MANNER.
YOU CLEARLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO DIET AND EXERCISE PROPERLY IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED PHENTERMINE TO AID YOU IN YOUR EFFORTS. YOU ALSO MENTION THAT YOU ARE A YO-YO DIETER--MORE EVIDENCE THAT YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO THIS PROPERLY.0 -
Just because you have PCOS doesn't mean you aren't coming off in your post as judgmental and unaware of how PCOS affects women differently. There are several different types of PCOS as well. Not every women with PCOS has the same symptoms or presentation. I can't help it if you believe that what worked for you should be a cookie cutter approach to all women with PCOS...that again is just silly.
And you are still making the assumption that I am somehow I not eating correctly even after I have been working with a physician and a nutritionist. Somehow your wisdom is going to trump what I have been working on with both professionals as well as how I have lost weight over the years and kept it off in between pregnancies? I yo-yo-ed if you read the posts because of getting pregnant x2...not because of the diet I was doing.
Additionally, people can read lower case letters also just as well as uppercase.0 -
Actually, I never claimed there was ONE approach for all women with PCOS, in fact I said the exact opposite of that. Are you even reading this thread?
What I said about your "South Beach/Atkins Hybrid" is that you are doing a low carb diet WRONG if you are avoiding fats and eating bread/fruits. That is why you struggle with hunger and feel you so desperately need to have an amphetamine to assist you in your yo yo dieting. It is a total fail to go low fat AND low carb--that isn't sustainable, and definitely not healthy for your brain or body. There isn't any "assuming" happening there--that is how dieting works. You choose low carb OR low fat, not BOTH at the same time. Why? Because both is unhealthy and not sustainable, as you've experienced.
As for your professional consultants, what I said is that your "weight loss doctor" and whatever "nutritionist" you've employed are giving you poor advice.
At this point, it's obvious you just want people to high five you for taking pharmaceutical speed. Well done, enjoy.0 -
I don't have experience with long term phentermine usage but going on and off of it is usually what PREVENTS people from developing a tolerance. Being on something long term usually create tolerance. I took adderall long-term (which in an amphetamine just like phentermine) and I developed one hell of a tolerance. Had to take 8X the normal dose to feel the same effects. Went through extreme withdrawal including suicidal thoughts (amphetamines increase seretonin-which was basically depleted when I got off) I gained 100 lbs also. So, in my own personal experience, I'd say long term amphetamine usage is horrible because you'd need to keep increasing your dose and when you do get off of them, it is hell. Oh, I damaged my heart too. I supposedly "took 10 years off my life" according to doctors.0
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Actually, I never claimed there was ONE approach for all women with PCOS, in fact I said the exact opposite of that. Are you even reading this thread?
What I said about your "South Beach/Atkins Hybrid" is that you are doing a low carb diet WRONG if you are avoiding fats and eating bread/fruits. That is why you struggle with hunger and feel you so desperately need to have an amphetamine to assist you in your yo yo dieting. It is a total fail to go low fat AND low carb--that isn't sustainable, and definitely not healthy for your brain or body. There isn't any "assuming" happening there--that is how dieting works. You choose low carb OR low fat, not BOTH at the same time. Why? Because both is unhealthy and not sustainable, as you've experienced.
As for your professional consultants, what I said is that your "weight loss doctor" and whatever "nutritionist" you've employed are giving you poor advice.
At this point, it's obvious you just want people to high five you for taking pharmaceutical speed. Well done, enjoy.
All very true!! Thank you!0 -
You are claiming that YOUR advice is the way to handle this. And you are arrogantly assuming YOU are right via scant information on someone from a message board and that my nutritionist (who helped me get pregnant x2 and manage my PCOS) is somehow incompetent...again..arrogant to assume such not to mention extremely inaccurate. The doctor, however, is up for debate given his long term phentermine stance as why I made the OP.
Again, I am not avoiding eating the things you stated...as I pointed out in a previous posts. Please go back and read. I struggle with hunger ( as well as other women with PCOS) because of what I stated before...the biology of it...please re-read that as well.
I haven't experienced unsustainable weight loss either in the traditional sense...as I said (I think 4 times now) I was able to keep the weight off before, it was pregnancy that caused the gain and an inability to return back to my diet plan while I was breast feeding. Please re-read that again.
You are glazing over alot of information that has previously been stated in your furry to state that "You don't need medicine" and "Low carb will fix your hunger" beat. And Again, my post wasn't to get diet and exercise advice form anyone. I wanted to confirm long term use of phentermine as stated by the doctor.
So no more lectures/posts please on how I have an incompetent nutritionist and what I am doing isn't sustainable and that I don't need medicine and wouldn't be hungry if I am doing X, Y, Z. It is obvious you have a bias against taking medicine and have no problem expressing your judgements on people who use it.... and you don't know what you are talking about in the arena of facts on why it is used and how it helps people.....just that you feel it is speed and bad for you. I get it. move on...you are beating a dead horse here.0 -
This whole debate about people shouldn't take phentermine is very silly. It is like trying to convince someone not to take a Tylenol when they have a headache cause there is a risk they could hurt their liver or tell someone not to take birth control pills because they could get a blood clot.
There is no reason for me not to take phentermine if it is helpful and safe.... or anyone else who wanted to for that matter. I am surprised at the judgement regarding this drug and the statement "You wouldn't need it if you did low carb". If just going low carb worked for me at this stage I OBVIOUSLY would not be seeking additional help. If this medicine makes it easier to stick to a diet and a plan and keep me motivated and get back into a habit of a low carb liefstyle...why wouldn't I use it? People do many things to help them behaviorally to lose weight and this is no different...other than the apparent hysteria and ignorance surrounding this medicine.
AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES AS FAR AS DIET AND EXERCISE....I AM NOT NEW TO THIS! Please quit telling me what I need to do. I am seeing a doctor and a nutritionist as well as exercising when I can in between taking care of a baby and a preschooler. I am not here asking advice on diet and exercise. I was very specific on what I was asking in the OP.
Also, as I stated before, being low carb isn't the magic pill of beating hunger when you have PCOS and are overweight or obese. The closer women get to an ideal weight the less their body responds to hunger and insulin. This based in biology and not a matter of will power.
Women with PCOS, weight gain is mostly due to high levels of insulin circulating in the blood. Cells normally absorb glucose with the help of insulin. When cells don’t respond normally to insulin, your body produces even more insulin, to “force” the cells into responding. When insulin levels rise, other hormonal changes can lead to increased appetite and decreased fat burning, which lead to weight gain. As you lose weight this hormonal and insulin response decreases, thus so does your hunger. And a persons hunger level is totally different from person to person based on the level of hormonal imbalance and insulin resistance. Thus, your "Just eat low carb" doesn't always work for every person as far as hunger control. That is great it worked for you....but please do not be so judgmental with regards to other people and assume they are doing something wrong, not doing enough with their diet or exercise plan or don't have enough will power.
I GUESS YOU MISSED THE PART WHERE I SAID I HAVE PCOS and am INSULIN RESISTANT. I WAS MORBIDLY OBESE...265 LBS. I DID NOT NEED PHENTERMINE OR ANY OTHER "BEHAVIOURAL" MEDICATION TO FOLLOW A LOW CARB HIGH FAT DIET AND LOSE OVER 100 POUNDS.
MY SUCCESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "WILLPOWER" AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EATING CORRECTLY FOR MY HEALTH ISSUES AND EXERCISING REGULARLY, AND IN THE PROPER MANNER.
YOU CLEARLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO DIET AND EXERCISE PROPERLY IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED PHENTERMINE TO AID YOU IN YOUR EFFORTS. YOU ALSO MENTION THAT YOU ARE A YO-YO DIETER--MORE EVIDENCE THAT YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO THIS PROPERLY.
So....I guess since I am taking phentermine as well I should just give up and stop dieting and exercising, just give up any hope of losing weight because I clearly have no idea what I'm doing....interesting...0 -
This whole debate about people shouldn't take phentermine is very silly. It is like trying to convince someone not to take a Tylenol when they have a headache cause there is a risk they could hurt their liver or tell someone not to take birth control pills because they could get a blood clot.
There is no reason for me not to take phentermine if it is helpful and safe.... or anyone else who wanted to for that matter. I am surprised at the judgement regarding this drug and the statement "You wouldn't need it if you did low carb". If just going low carb worked for me at this stage I OBVIOUSLY would not be seeking additional help. If this medicine makes it easier to stick to a diet and a plan and keep me motivated and get back into a habit of a low carb liefstyle...why wouldn't I use it? People do many things to help them behaviorally to lose weight and this is no different...other than the apparent hysteria and ignorance surrounding this medicine.
AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES AS FAR AS DIET AND EXERCISE....I AM NOT NEW TO THIS! Please quit telling me what I need to do. I am seeing a doctor and a nutritionist as well as exercising when I can in between taking care of a baby and a preschooler. I am not here asking advice on diet and exercise. I was very specific on what I was asking in the OP.
Also, as I stated before, being low carb isn't the magic pill of beating hunger when you have PCOS and are overweight or obese. The closer women get to an ideal weight the less their body responds to hunger and insulin. This based in biology and not a matter of will power.
Women with PCOS, weight gain is mostly due to high levels of insulin circulating in the blood. Cells normally absorb glucose with the help of insulin. When cells don’t respond normally to insulin, your body produces even more insulin, to “force” the cells into responding. When insulin levels rise, other hormonal changes can lead to increased appetite and decreased fat burning, which lead to weight gain. As you lose weight this hormonal and insulin response decreases, thus so does your hunger. And a persons hunger level is totally different from person to person based on the level of hormonal imbalance and insulin resistance. Thus, your "Just eat low carb" doesn't always work for every person as far as hunger control. That is great it worked for you....but please do not be so judgmental with regards to other people and assume they are doing something wrong, not doing enough with their diet or exercise plan or don't have enough will power.
I GUESS YOU MISSED THE PART WHERE I SAID I HAVE PCOS and am INSULIN RESISTANT. I WAS MORBIDLY OBESE...265 LBS. I DID NOT NEED PHENTERMINE OR ANY OTHER "BEHAVIOURAL" MEDICATION TO FOLLOW A LOW CARB HIGH FAT DIET AND LOSE OVER 100 POUNDS.
MY SUCCESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "WILLPOWER" AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EATING CORRECTLY FOR MY HEALTH ISSUES AND EXERCISING REGULARLY, AND IN THE PROPER MANNER.
YOU CLEARLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO DIET AND EXERCISE PROPERLY IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED PHENTERMINE TO AID YOU IN YOUR EFFORTS. YOU ALSO MENTION THAT YOU ARE A YO-YO DIETER--MORE EVIDENCE THAT YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO THIS PROPERLY.
So....I guess since I am taking phentermine as well I should just give up and stop dieting and exercising, just give up any hope of losing weight because I clearly have no idea what I'm doing....interesting...
I don't recall ever addressing you...
No worries, you're all doing it exactly right. Enjoy your phentermine, and I will enjoy Darwinism.0 -
This whole thread was sooooooo much fun. I laughed so hard I was crying!:laugh:0
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This whole debate about people shouldn't take phentermine is very silly. It is like trying to convince someone not to take a Tylenol when they have a headache cause there is a risk they could hurt their liver or tell someone not to take birth control pills because they could get a blood clot.
There is no reason for me not to take phentermine if it is helpful and safe.... or anyone else who wanted to for that matter. I am surprised at the judgement regarding this drug and the statement "You wouldn't need it if you did low carb". If just going low carb worked for me at this stage I OBVIOUSLY would not be seeking additional help. If this medicine makes it easier to stick to a diet and a plan and keep me motivated and get back into a habit of a low carb liefstyle...why wouldn't I use it? People do many things to help them behaviorally to lose weight and this is no different...other than the apparent hysteria and ignorance surrounding this medicine.
AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES AS FAR AS DIET AND EXERCISE....I AM NOT NEW TO THIS! Please quit telling me what I need to do. I am seeing a doctor and a nutritionist as well as exercising when I can in between taking care of a baby and a preschooler. I am not here asking advice on diet and exercise. I was very specific on what I was asking in the OP.
Also, as I stated before, being low carb isn't the magic pill of beating hunger when you have PCOS and are overweight or obese. The closer women get to an ideal weight the less their body responds to hunger and insulin. This based in biology and not a matter of will power.
Women with PCOS, weight gain is mostly due to high levels of insulin circulating in the blood. Cells normally absorb glucose with the help of insulin. When cells don’t respond normally to insulin, your body produces even more insulin, to “force” the cells into responding. When insulin levels rise, other hormonal changes can lead to increased appetite and decreased fat burning, which lead to weight gain. As you lose weight this hormonal and insulin response decreases, thus so does your hunger. And a persons hunger level is totally different from person to person based on the level of hormonal imbalance and insulin resistance. Thus, your "Just eat low carb" doesn't always work for every person as far as hunger control. That is great it worked for you....but please do not be so judgmental with regards to other people and assume they are doing something wrong, not doing enough with their diet or exercise plan or don't have enough will power.
I GUESS YOU MISSED THE PART WHERE I SAID I HAVE PCOS and am INSULIN RESISTANT. I WAS MORBIDLY OBESE...265 LBS. I DID NOT NEED PHENTERMINE OR ANY OTHER "BEHAVIOURAL" MEDICATION TO FOLLOW A LOW CARB HIGH FAT DIET AND LOSE OVER 100 POUNDS.
MY SUCCESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "WILLPOWER" AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EATING CORRECTLY FOR MY HEALTH ISSUES AND EXERCISING REGULARLY, AND IN THE PROPER MANNER.
YOU CLEARLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO DIET AND EXERCISE PROPERLY IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED PHENTERMINE TO AID YOU IN YOUR EFFORTS. YOU ALSO MENTION THAT YOU ARE A YO-YO DIETER--MORE EVIDENCE THAT YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO THIS PROPERLY.
So....I guess since I am taking phentermine as well I should just give up and stop dieting and exercising, just give up any hope of losing weight because I clearly have no idea what I'm doing....interesting...
I don't recall ever addressing you...
No worries, you're all doing it exactly right. Enjoy your phentermine, and I will enjoy Darwinism.
[thatescalatedquickly.gif]0 -
Here's a thought. If you don't trust your doctor to tell you the truth about your treatment - get a 2nd opinion and stop asking questions on here. :drinker: Good luck.0
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That was the determination ohhh soo many posts ago before it got derailed by the great phentermine debate and judgments went flying it is bad and that if people use it they must not be eating right and exercising right or they wouldn't need it.0
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I yo-yo-ed cause I got pregnant x2...not because the phentermine. I was able to keep the weight off after I used phentermine up until the time I got pregnant again.
Thanks for pointing out how people gain weight.....I didn't know that.
hi - oh ok - well still the calorie deficit is still true. thats what i wanted to point out as my point as being important.0 -
To the OP, by the way, why not get a 2nd opinion from a doctor who is there in real life, not some people on the internet who are not there in real life to actually be there. i mean really, we cant measure your blood pressure, take your temperature or anything. how are we going to be able to tell you a 2nd opinion that your doctor - whom we have also not met in real life - is correct or not?
I think you should get a 2nd opinion from a doc in real life - not the internet.0 -
To the OP, by the way, why not get a 2nd opinion from a doctor who is there in real life, not some people on the internet who are not there in real life to actually be there. i mean really, we cant measure your blood pressure, take your temperature or anything. how are we going to be able to tell you a 2nd opinion that your doctor - whom we have also not met in real life - is correct or not?
I think you should get a 2nd opinion from a doc in real life - not the internet.
I didn't ask for a medical opinion or advice.... although plenty of people were willing to give me theirs not to mention diet and exercise advice....again which I never asked for....as well as give me unsolicited opinions on how I was terrible to my body cause I was taking phentermine and must be doing something wrong if I needed to take it....again...was never even remotely a question or concern in the OP, but none the less, the the thread got derailed by those comments as well.
I wanted to know for those that had been on phentermine if they had ever heard of what my doctor had told me to better gauge if this was a legitimate statement or not by my doctor or if he was possible a quack or out of his mind. I am sorry so many people are having a hard time figuring this out as the OP was in plain English..... or so I thought.
Again, if there is any confusion, read the OP.....then maybe read it again....then once more for good measure.0
This discussion has been closed.
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