Revving up slowed metabolism, gaining weight :(

Docpremie

If you given it several weeks, you might try upping slowly, by 100 calories every week or 2 until reaching your goal. When I switched to TDEE-20% my weight consistently dropped. I finally got my sister to switch over to this methods 3 weeks ago from WW. She is now consistently losing weight & ticked off she could've been eating more for months, LOL! I'd say slowly up your caloric goal & see what happens. I don't think the changes will happen quickly for you based on your long term history. I use an Excel spreadsheet to track my progress, and calculate my caloric & macro goals. The original spreadsheet came from the "Roadmap" thread. I can't find the original link for the spreadsheet right now, but if you e-mail me, I can send you the spreadsheet. It makes all the calculations so much easier. You can also choose whether to base TDEE on body measurements or Body Media Fit measurements. I'm now doing all the calculations for 6 of my family members, LOL! I redo measurements monthly & make the necessary changes. I've seen steady progress in all my measurements & lost multitudes of "inches" and "clothes sizes." By the way, I'm a physician & this "lifestyle change" makes sense from both a medical & scientific standpoint!

QuietBloom

Since you know your fat %, I think the most accurate way to estimate your BMR is by using it (because fat and muscle effect your BMR a lot). For instance, I found out I could eat MORE once I knew my fat%, because I actually had MORE LBM than I realized. I think those other calculators are OVER estimating your BMR.

Go here: http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

Use the Katch-McCardle mode, where you enter in your body fat %. That will take into account your LBM vs your FBM and (unfortunately) shows that you have less LBM than most calculators are estimating. For instance, when I plugged in your numbers (weight, height, age, sex, BF%) gave me a BMR of 1558 for you. It's not a huge difference, but every little bit counts when you are playing with the ultimate calculator (your body).

Ok, I've done that, and come up with the same BMR you got. Now I poked around a little further to get my TDEE for days which I'm not just lounging in bed, lol. I chose 'exercise 3x/week', which is modest because I do get out there and walk every day, but I mean...it's walking. It's not HIIT or anything, but I'm not a couch potato, ya know? I DO get out there and move more than schlepping downstairs to my home office and sit all day So, based on 'exercise 3x/week', I got a TDEE of 2142. Which gives me a TDEE -20% of 1713. And I'm currently hitting right at or just below 1600 calories a day.

So based on this, am I using this tool right?

That's fine, as long as you aren't eating your exercise calories back. Make sense?

CeleryStalker

Angelina, thanks for the links!


Doc.... again, thank you. It gets frustrating to see so many conflicting pieces of advice, and I know I'm on the road to 'recovery' so to say.

If my calculations are correct, my TDEE - 20% is right about within 100 or so calories of where I am now. Slowly but surely, this weight is going to come off. I'm happy on the path I've taken because I know that my former methods weren't sustainable or healthy, regardless of the fact that I was never hungry. The very fact that I WASN'T hungry on 800, 1000, 1200 calories shows me that my metabolism adjusted to those low levels. I should have been a stark-raving lunatic. LOL

Docpremie

That's fine, as long as you aren't eating your exercise calories back. Make sense?

Yes! In the TDEE method you DO NOT eat back exercise calories. Your caloric intake is based on "average" caloric burn. You eat the same caloric intake everyday; that's one of the reasons I love the TDEE method.

Docpremie

If you want some good ideas for increasing protein intake, let me know. If I don't start my day off with a good portion of protein, I feel as if I'm fighting my protein goal all day long. My breakfast is usually 600 calories & 80 grams of protein. It keeps my full for a good 3-4 hours & makes the rest of my meals much more reasonable during the day. I usually consume 135-150 grams of protein/day. It makes a HUGE difference in maintaining/building muscle mass!

By the way, one little tidbit I didn't add in about my measurements. I'm 54 y.o., and my caloric intake is still 1825! My sister is 51 y.o., 5-9 & 217 pounds with a TDEE-20% of 1800! At our age, we should be losing slower than all you "young-ins," LOL! The TDEE method does work! I feel better than I have in years!!!!!

CeleryStalker

That's fine, as long as you aren't eating your exercise calories back. Make sense?

Absolutely. I struggled a bit at first about the whole concept of eating your exercise calories back. But that was before I started to collect so much data about my daily caloric expenditures. Now, rather than having MFP deem me 'inactive', I have myself set to lightly active or whatever it's called here, to give me a base daily goal of 1600 calories, but this is also based on the caveat that I WILL GET OUT AND WALK. Basically, I have my walking calories built into my daily calorie goal, because I got sick of having to re-plan food for the 'earned calories' after I logged my walk. I consider it basically a front-loaded way of looking at my calories. Either sedentary and log my walking calories, or slightly active and don't log, either way it still puts me at having to plan the same # of calories at the end of the day.

CeleryStalker

Yes! In the TDEE method you DO NOT eat back exercise calories. Your caloric intake is based on "average" caloric burn. You eat the same caloric intake everyday; that's one of the reasons I love the TDEE method.

If you want some good ideas for increasing protein intake, let me know. If I don't start my day off with a good portion of protein, I feel as if I'm fighting my protein goal all day long. My breakfast is usually 600 calories & 80 grams of protein. It keeps my full for a good 3-4 hours & makes the rest of my meals much more reasonable during the day. I usually consume 135-150 grams of protein/day. It makes a HUGE difference in maintaining/building muscle mass!

OK good deal, so I do understand. My walking calories are built into my TDEE because I chose lightly active rather than sedentary, and therefore I do not eat those back.

Definitely up for some ideas on protein intake. I've been doing egg whites for so long in the morning just to make sure I start the day protein-heavy, they are getting a little boring, to say the least. LOL

bcattoes

OK, and that is your opinion, and that's cool. :flowerforyou: What I'm looking for is responses from like-minded folks who understand the intricacies of metabolism issues.

That the human body doesn't store fat while eating a calorie deficit really isn't my opinion. Perhaps there is some rare disease that would cause it, sort of the opposite of those few people who can't store fat at all. But if you are gaining fat because your metabolism slowed, it would be because it slowed to the point that what was once a deficit is now not a deficit.

Eating 1600 and burning 2300 would not fit that description. But if you are gaining weight, then eat more. Maybe that will work.

CeleryStalker

Not sure that I'm gaining fat, retaining fat, bloated.....I know the scale is going up, and I know I'm eating at a deficit. I know I want to kick the scale and burn all my clothes, LOL I'm trying to be civil about it though, all the while eating at a proper level rather than a 1700+ caloric deficit, and not weeding out any particular macros. One thing all these VLCD's did for me was poisoned me to think carbs are some evil entity. The only time I could eat carbs and not feel guilty was in preparation for and during a long bike ride, because I knew I was burning through the carbs before the end of the ride. Aside from that, no. And I'd be sad. It's dumb to be sad over 'not getting' to eat pasta. I can have pasta. I just need to fit it into my macros.

Docpremie

Try this, I have it most every morning:

Dole - Pineapple, Fresh, 1.5 oz.
Gourmet Nut - Dry Roasted Edamame, 1 oz (30g)
Kashi - Go Lean Crunch - Honey Almond Flax, 0.5 cup
Syntrax Nectar - Whey Protein Isolate Fruit Juice Flavor - Caribbean Cooler, 2 scoops (56 grams)
Chobani - Low Fat Plain (2%) Greek Yogurt, 6 oz (170g)
Calories 581 / fat 10 grams / carbs 41 grams / protein 84 grams / fiber 13 grams

I also occasionally substitute:

Nectar - Whey Protein Shake - Vanilla Bean Torte, 2 scoop (56 grams)
Lactaid 2 % Lactose Free Milk - 100% Lactose Free, 2 cups
Calories 420 / fat 5 grams / carbs 26 grams / protein 64 grams


I use Syntrax Nectar Whey Protein. It is the one most recommended by bariatric physicians & dietitians. It has been extensively studied in weight loss. You can buy it at The Vitamin Shoppe. I've tried a number of flavors, but prefer Vanilla Bean Torte, Caribbean Cooler (pineapple coconut flavor) & Chocolate. You can buy it cheaper on-line at "My Bariatric Pantry." They also sell a "variety pack" of single flavor packets, if you want to try other flavors. You can pick the flavors you want to try. It's a great way to try the product without buying huge containers. The Vitamin Shoppe also sells a few of the individual packets. A number of folks rave about the Fuzzy Navel flavor (orange peach), but I HATE peaches, so I've never tried it. I get it cheaper yet at my hospital's women's boutiques, plus I get a 10% discount!

I have other suggestions & recipes, if you're interested, but the above are my "go to" breakfasts! One more thing, always "weigh" your protein powder (all food) rather trust the scoop (measuring cup), because the scoop definitely "under estimates" the powder. I actually weigh everything, except for liquids, those I measure with the appropriate measuring device.

myurav

Who performs the RMR test? Is this bloodwork or done in a fitness lab or something? We've got a fitness lab at one of the local colleges. I know they do VO2 max testing, but not sure if they do RMR.

I got mine tested with the BodPod, which gives BF%, as well as BMR and TDEE. It wasn't too expensive (about $40) and the numbers were cool to see. You can google it, and then see if there's one in your area. I recommend you get it tested just to be sure that your metabolism has slowed down. There might be some other ways to measure it, but I figured I'd let you know about mine - just FYI, it's this weird egg-shaped machine that you sit in and then it measures your respiration and goes from there.

I think the only other thing (which echoes many other posters here), is that it seems like your cals might be too low based on your info? You might have a BMR of 1600+ cals/day, which means that you'll need to up your intake to at least that.

Anyways, best of luck!

servilia

If your body media is correct then by definition you don't have a slowed metabolism. How do you keep track of your calories? Are you including all liquids and condiments?
You said your thyroid checked out ok but what were your aural numbers? The standard range used by most doctors is outdated. It goes from 0.5 - 5 but actually most people function optimally at levels under 2.

ckhardeman

I just had a conversation with my nutritionist today, and mention that I am doing everything correctly (exercise & nutrition) and have gained 4 pounds. So the first thing she wanted to know was how was my TSH level & vitamin D level.
And my vitamin D level is out of whack. She stated that there are studies done that states that low vitamin D levels can keep you from losing weigh. Vitamin D sends your hormones out of whack. So I am going to start back taking my vitamin D to see if this helps. Maybe you should look into.

rainbowbow

I'm going to be completely honest here. You should read what i have to say with as open a mindset as possible. I know what i'm talking about and have been at this a long time.... if you're thinking of blowing my post off with another "UH NO, YOU'RE WRONG. I'M SPECIAL" then you are doing yourself a great disservice.

Okay, let's address the issue in which you have claimed to have a "damaged metabolism". Let me start off by saying that you have no evidence to support this claim whatsoever. You haven't had your RMR tested by a physician and are simply assuming you're metabolism is "damaged" due to previous diets (in which you DID lose weight). Now, I would probably say with all of that dieting and likely low protein levels and then GAINING the weight back that you did one thing; you lost a crap ton of your muscle mass and replaced it with fat. This definitely WOULD account for a lower RMR and lower calorie burn throughout the day.

Secondly, you state that you are eating 1600 calories and GAINING weight. Has it occurred to you that metabolism is directly related to muscle mass as well as activity level? And that possibly, just maybe, you AREN'T eating at a deficit? If you've "damaged" your metabolism enough by losing significant amounts of muscle mass and gaining back fat there's a pretty good possibility you aren't actually burning as many calories as you think you are during the day. You stated you are burning between 2700-2900 calories daily. This is MOST LIKELY (as in i can almost guarantee you) a wrong number. I doubt very very seriously that you are burning this many calories daily as a woman with "walking 3 miles" a day.

Lastly, you never mention or reference the most likely inaccuracy of all: counting calories. Did you know MOST people who start a food diary underestimate the amount of calories they are eating by nearly 40%? Even nutritionists who track their food underestimate by roughly 20%. Has the possibility been brought up of you completely and inaccurately logging your intake? Do you measure and weigh each individual item that goes into your mouth? This includes beverages, condiments, properly measuring food while dry, etc.? If not, you're intake is likely wrong. And it may be wrong by a LOT.

You state the following-

I understand the basics of what's going on. Body essentially starved, metabolism slows to conserve, thinks I'm in Ethiopia in the middle of some famine. Eat more, body rejoices and reserves every morsel I ingest, in fear of another trip to Ethiopia and enduring another famine. Hormones out of whack, etc. I get that. What I don't get is....

This alone lets me know that you don't understand what works physiologically here. Let's be honest, you didn't get to 216 and 44% body fat by "not eating enough calories". If anything, you have been consuming a surplus for an extremely long time.

You also state-

Did you not read the part about my eating 800-1200 calories for months at a clip? I have zero problems eating too little. And when I do eat at ridiculously low caloric levels, I lose weight. There is no reason for a 5'11 woman of my weight to be eating under 1200 calories a day. Do you intentionally promote eating disorders?

Did it ever occur to you that you lost weight eating that number of calories (although like i mentioned above this was probably also inaccurately logged) because you were actually at a deficit at the time? Also, let's not joke around here... you don't have an eating disorder from what you've mentioned. And anorexics with their 18.5 or lower BMI would probably be offended at the insinuation. Eating a small amount of calories doesn't equate to having a mental health disorder....

Here's what i think is happening. And here's what i think is going to fix the problem.

1.) You are overestimating the number of calories you are burning. By a lot. A sedentary lifestyle equates to about 20% over your BMR and quite frankly you don't know definitely what that is. Trying to argue that you are really burning that much is pointless as you haven't gone and had it tested. I highly suggest you do this so you can get a greater understanding of what you're REALLY burning.

2.) You are underestimating the number of calories you are eating. By a lot. The fact that you have "lost weight" in the past eating less calories pretty much tells me that you aren't in a deficit now AND whatever number of calories you really were consuming (we can't go back and see) was actually less than you're burning.

What i think you need to do:
1.) Get your BMR tested.
2.) Continue to lift weights but understand that you aren't building muscle (and thereby "repairing your metabolism") unless you are eating at a caloric surplus. You cant turn the yo-yo fat you gained back into muscle you can only retain as much as possible why you continue on your weight loss journey.
3.) Invest in a high quality food scale and always measure and weigh your food. All of it. Log it consistently and don't give yourself "cheat days".
4.) find the number of calories (once you are positive your logging is as accurate as possible) it takes to lose weight. Eat that number of calories or a moderate deficit and continue to lose body fat.

Good luck!

Mistyfied_MD

You seem dead-set on THIS IS MY PROBLEM, and are only interested in hearing from people that agree with your assessment. Many of us have personal experience with "the intricacies of metabolic science", so don't be so quick to dismiss the ideas and suggestions stated in this thread. Either your problem isn't what you're determined it HAS to be, or your data is incorrect. Either your arm band is wrong, and/or you're eating more calories than you realize, and/or, most likely, your problem is something entirely different from what you've decided it is. Your thyroid is far from the only thing that could cause metabolic slowdown, and I know from personal experience that a normal fasting blood sugar might completely miss the problem.

I very much empathize with your frustration. I experienced essentially a metabolic gridlock for several frustrating years that multiple doctors were unable to solve, until finally a new primary care doctor determined to take a different approach and look beyond my normal blood tests. I now know I have at least 2 conditions--both of which affect my metabolism, and both of which were not indicated in my blood work. I've now lost 40 pounds this year, almost without effort, through treatment of those conditions.

If, as you insist, it's a simple case of slow metabolism, your scales should reverse within a month or two. If not, then you need to put aside your own assumptions and get your doctors to do the same. No one here has a crystal ball, but we all speak from experience. If you want help here or in any forum, try being more open minded. You may not think so, but your responses in this thread are condescending and belittling. We're not stupid simply because we don't have the same assumptions as you do about your problem.

Have a great day.

Penfoldsplace

As frustrating as it is not seeing the scale go down, a month is not really long enough to determine if there is a problem, especially when you have started strength training. The week I started strength training I put on 4 pounds, which I suspect was my muscles retaining some water. Eating at a deficit it's impossible to gain that amount in fat.

I think starvation mode is very misunderstood on here, if you eat at a deficit you will lose even if it takes time. If you are not losing then it could be for a number of reasons

-Retaining water
-Not actually eating at a deficit, i.e under estimating cals eaten.
-Over estimating exercise cals
-Being impatient (I'm very guilty of this one)

I would say if you continue with the weights then the scales will be screwy for a few weeks but eventually things will go in the right direction. If you still struggle speak to your doctor as there are also medical reasons for struggling with weight loss.

CeleryStalker

I'm saying this as genuinely and nicely as I would if we were all in a big room having this same discussing. No snark applied or implied.....

Just so we're on the same page, I didn't come here asking for help in defining my problem. I've done enough research and come to my own conclusions with the assistance of my GP and trainer to create a clear definition of what's going on with my current situation. What I asked for was guidance from like-minded people, because it gets boring only talking to the same two people about this and I enjoy the conversation with people who are on the same page as me.

I didn't ask anyone to come insult me, make assumptions, or trash my knowledge and understanding in favor of their own agenda/what's worked for them/etc. That advice is best saved for someone seeking it, which there are plenty of folks on the forum who are, and would happily take what's being offered. No offense meant in any way. Six months ago, I was banging a different drum myself, so I understand that there are many methods of weight loss that work on a variety of individuals. But to force the stance on someone who clearly isn't looking for a change of perspective seems counterproductive to me.

Thanks to those of you who stuck to the topic and offered guidance!

Mr_Knight

I'm 5'11, 38yo female, currently 216#, 44% body fat. Sexay.....

IMO your daily burn estimate is about 500 calories too high. That however isn't enough to explain the weight gain, so (and I know you're not going to like this) you are most likely eating more than you think you are.

Good luck!

EDIT: Oh, I just saw your last post. Disregard everything I said, as it appears you're convinced you already have this diagnoses. Cheers.

rainbowbow

I didn't ask anyone to come insult me, make assumptions, or trash my knowledge and understanding in favor of their own agenda/what's worked for them/etc. That advice is best saved for someone seeking it, which there are plenty of folks on the forum who are, and would happily take what's being offered. No offense meant in any way. Six months ago, I was banging a different drum myself, so I understand that there are many methods of weight loss that work on a variety of individuals. But to force the stance on someone who clearly isn't looking for a change of perspective seems counterproductive to me.

Thanks to those of you who stuck to the topic and offered guidance!

I'm glad what you're doing is clearly working for you so well and you have all the answers. I can tell you know exactly what you're doing by the fact that you claim your metabolism is damaged on no evidence whatsoever and you fail to recognize the problem might be your choices not your body functioning improperly.

I would also make sure to thank your GP who has received 0-4 hours of training on nutrition for offering such helpful advice.

Next time you have all the answers and refuse to consider the problem may be with your own actions how about you save all of us the time and effort we put into offering valid advice by letting us know upfront?

servilia

Easy. You're not really in a deficit. That, or you have some serious medical issue that you should check out. A healthy normal person does not gain weight in a caloric deficit. This applies to you, you're not a special snowflake.