Science only please - the case against 1200 kcals

OsricTheKnight

OK I am really tired of seeing all these threads where people are slamming everyone on a low-calorie plan.

I am incredibly tired of seeing the threads where someone posts "I'm eating 1200 kcals and not losing weight" and seeing nonsense like "eat more" instead of sense like "weigh your @!#%amn food".

However I am interested in real references that support the idea that low calorie diets are in some way harmful for people who are overweight. So, references to credible sources only please, fire away.

For those who support low calorie diets, references the other direction are OK too. But this thread is all about the science - studied and reproduced results - not about your results, or your friends, or the "countless people" you've trained or seen fail on one plan or another.

We are not snowflakes. Or if we are, I am pretty sure we all melt the same way.

Osric

Lynnmi07

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1108368

This was a randomized controlled study that basically showed that metabolism decreases with prolonged calorie restriction.

The problem with 1200 cal diets isn't that you can't lose weight on them it's the fact that your bmr decreases and makes maintenance that much harder, and who only wants to eat 1500 cals the rest of their life to maintain weight. With that said I think people just have to be smart and have a maintenance plan in place to build BMR back up if they find they gain weight when eating 1500 cals and not think their only option is to drop cals even lower.

MilliDenney

Yes, this is an interesting subject, a controversial one too.

I've read many of the comments, and it's very interesting to read the pro's and con's, and the WHY's for that matter.

I don't know if my point of view is of any value and I can always remove this post if needed, so here goes..

I've been a dieter practically my whole adult life, assuming 20 is an adult age. And a jojo-ing dieter, unfortunately.

Shortly after I moved to the us I started WW, was very successfull and started working for them, and have done so for about 5 or 6 years, and this is what I learned at that time (and still believe to be true).

Your body needs energy to burn calories. If you're on a 1200 calories plan, you can either eat 1200 cals spread out over healthy meals with vegetables, fruits, carbs and lean meats, which would allow you 3 good meals and 1 or 2 snacks, or you can eat high calorie meals with empty calories, for which your body doesn't have to work at at all. (Hope I am making myself clear.)

For me, it's not hard to understand which way would make your body lose weight faster. As I hope I made clear, I am no scientist in this, but I know from working for WW that this concept was the case in almost all cases of people who complained to not lose any or very little weight but stick to their food plan calorie wise. Asking them to bring in their trackers showed bad choices, no exersize and too little water intake.

Once these people understood the concept of good/bad food choices plus exersize they lost weight, some fast, some slow, but they lost weight.

I have read many threads and comments on the MFP forum, and because there are so many different theories I am very interested in professional, perhaps scientifically proven stories.

Lynnmi07

I don't think anyone here was yelling their opinionated all for or against rants.

Cindyinpg

I think the proof IS in what we see on here and in real life. People who go on low calorie diets will see their metabolism adjusting downwards.
http://www.leighpeele.com/starvation-mode
Oftentimes, instead of eating more, they react by adjusting it down even further. Then, when the time for maintenance comes... they now have a lower TDEE than someone who has dieted down slower at a higher intake. That, to me, predicts a lesser chance of success.
For the record, meal timing and frequency do not impact metabolism,
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/820577-meal-frequency-rev-up-that-furnace-lol
Nor is there such a thing as 'empty' calories, some foods are more nutrient dense than others, but there is no point in demonizing any foods as 'bad', 'junk' etc. All can be incorporated into a healthy diet. Adherence is what matters IMO.

Grace215lbs

1200 does work! ;3 Did work for me. I laugh at people who rant it's all BS and will ruin your metabolism. I'm healthy, i lift, i see my doctor every 3 months for my liver problems (was born with them) I don't know the science behind it, but hey i'm living proof and every time someone tries to tell me it cos i probably really ate 1400 or 16oo i think, nice opinion but i know it worked for me, sorry your dieting isn't the blue prints we all need to follow. Different bodies require different diets.

lessac

First of all; shoo @all teenagers who wants to be bony at the cost of effin' their growth and hormones up, below comment is not for you.

The thing is, for every peer reviewed study that slams low calorie diets, I can find a study that points to no tangible harm done. One thing that needs to be kept in mind about said studies is that test groups consist of handful of people, the trials last too short to observe any long term effects and usually target overweight to obese people with high body fat.

The article posted above is rather irrelevant as it's a study about effects of low metabolic rate and aging, and needless to say 2 out of 3 test groups are on 25% caloric deficit which put them above 1200 cals a day. In that experiment, all 3 test groups do face a lower metabolic rate, quite proportioned with the ratio of deficit, with a slight increase in the exercising group. Figure 2 of that article is quite interesting, on the other hand, it is what MFP people calls a plateau.

I think what people should bare in mind that a drastic change to habits that one's body is used to, may come with risks. If a 60 year old, who had never exercised in his life, starts sprinting all of a sudden, I think we can all agree that it may have drastic results. The same goes for extreme diets. Unless they're supervised by medical professionals who are well equipped in their field, people who choose extreme diets put themselves under similar risks.

ETA: Needless to say by extreme diet I don't mean 1200 cals. Seeing a number, in this case 1200, as a scapegoat is quite silly especially when one does not know about age/height/weight/gender/any conditions that affect metabolic rate of the said individual.

themommie

I dont know the science behind it either but have been eating 1200 cals for over 3 yrs and have lost 115 lbs yup it works for me too

MB_Positif

The only science I can attest to is how craptacular I felt for the one month I tried 1200 calories as my goal. I am 5'2" and was still about 35-40 pounds over my goal weight when I tried it. I was cranky and lightheaded and couldn't think straight. This was even with eating back all of my exercise calories. I am just about at goal, still losing, and eat 1500-1800 calories per day.

Edit: my loss was also not any higher during the month I was at 1200

Grace215lbs

I dont know the science behind it either but have been eating 1200 cals for over 3 yrs and have lost 115 lbs yup it works for me too

We have another one! hallelujah for 1200!!!

Cindyinpg

I dont know the science behind it either but have been eating 1200 cals for over 3 yrs and have lost 115 lbs yup it works for me too

Please don't take this wrong, but for me, your diary would not be something I would say that 'works for me', especially if I were at maintenance. I would chew my own arm off if I could only have 1200 calories a day and was often netting only half that. Of course, I am probably taller than you and I like food a lot.

MyChocolateDiet

OK I am really tired of seeing all these threads where people are slamming everyone on a low-calorie plan.

I am incredibly tired of seeing the threads where someone posts "I'm eating 1200 kcals and not losing weight" and seeing nonsense like "eat more" instead of sense like "weigh your @!#%amn food".

However I am interested in real references that support the idea that low calorie diets are in some way harmful for people who are overweight. So, references to credible sources only please, fire away.

For those who support low calorie diets, references the other direction are OK too. But this thread is all about the science - studied and reproduced results - not about your results, or your friends, or the "countless people" you've trained or seen fail on one plan or another.

We are not snowflakes. Or if we are, I am pretty sure we all melt the same way.

Osric

Using my food scale is about as far into science as I tend to go. As for evidence, the only one I have is a sad anecdotal one of watching a girl die in front of my face from eating too little who didn't even look slender much less emaciated during my youth. It wasn't science but it was enough to shock me into being very careful in the future when selecting any plan to slim down.

SapiensPisces

In to follow this discussion.

Grace215lbs

Just like you get tired of seeing us saying that you should eat more. We get just as tired of people like you complaining about people like us.

If you want to eat 1200 then go ahead. No one is stopping you from doing that. We don't go over there and shove more food in your mouth. If you want to eat 1200 then go exercise your heart out and lose weight then go ahead. If/when you stall then don't post on here asking why you stalled. Because just like you're tired of seeing people bash 1200 cal diets, we get tired of seeing people ask "I have been eating 1200 calories and stopped losing weight, why?"

This is your first month here. Instead of getting mad at everyone bashing 1200 why don't you just do it and prove it to yourself that it works. No one criticizes you, unless you bring attention to yourself, like you just have. There is plenty of science out there talking about this subject. Many of us have gone through the trouble of researching it and reading it. You on the other hand don't want to bother doing it for yourself. You want it presented to you. Or you could very easily search on this site and you'll find 1,127,457 threads about it.


Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...................GO!!!!!!

^^^^^ It's all true though!!!! Not one way is the right way so whining about it on forums is a waste of time. We should all eat what we're happy with and work out like a pro!

Stage14

Just like you get tired of seeing us saying that you should eat more. We get just as tired of people like you complaining about people like us.

If you want to eat 1200 then go ahead. No one is stopping you from doing that. We don't go over there and shove more food in your mouth. If you want to eat 1200 then go exercise your heart out and lose weight then go ahead. If/when you stall then don't post on here asking why you stalled. Because just like you're tired of seeing people bash 1200 cal diets, we get tired of seeing people ask "I have been eating 1200 calories and stopped losing weight, why?"

This is your first month here. Instead of getting mad at everyone bashing 1200 why don't you just do it and prove it to yourself that it works. No one criticizes you, unless you bring attention to yourself, like you just have. There is plenty of science out there talking about this subject. Many of us have gone through the trouble of researching it and reading it. You on the other hand don't want to bother doing it for yourself. You want it presented to you. Or you could very easily search on this site and you'll find 1,127,457 threads about it.

I also think as a rule, if you're going to try ans stir the pot like this you should have to make you profile and diary public. Either you commit to this war or you don't.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...................GO!!!!!!

THIS.

ETA: I'm in the everything in moderation camp. I eat ice cream,
potato chips, and pizza. When asked or answering a post about specific diet restrictions, I say that. But I don't go around posting diatribes against the many many people who eat "clean" and attribute their success to their lack of processed food. I know it's working for me, just as their way is working for them. so why waste my time shouting at the wind?

SapiensPisces

A couple of papers to add to the discussion:

Long-Term Effects of Low-Calorie Diet on the Metabolic Syndrome in Obese Nondiabetic Patients
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/6/1485.long

Long-term effects of a very low calorie diet (Nutrilett) in obesity treatment. A prospective, randomized, comparison between VLCD and a hypocaloric diet+behavior modification and their combination.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488

Long-term low-protein, low-calorie diet and endurance exercise modulate metabolic factors associated with cancer risk
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/84/6/1456.long

All of these add some interesting ideas to this discussion and are worth a look.

BrainyBurro

just for the record, the arguments against 1200 calorie diets are directed at the METHOD, not the PERSON. there are a million threads on here where an OP posts about their 1200 calorie diet, gets negative feedback about that diet, and proceeds to take all of the negative feedback as direct personal insults.

it's almost never a direct personal insult until that happens. then they respond with their own insults and the thread gets derailed into a pissing contest.

so if you're going to post about 1200 calorie diets, be mature enough to understand that:

a) you will get negative feedback
b) the feedback should not be taken as personal insults

there are many arguments against 1200 calorie diets. a simply search will yield an abundance of threads and an afternoon's worth of reading. however, for a very small percentage of women, who have taken the time to read all of those threads, double check their numbers, and ensure that their nutritional goals are being met, 1200 may be an acceptable calorie goal. nobody disputes that. those women do exist and some have taken the time to understand and verify the science behind their choice. for those women, i simply say "more power to you!".

however, for everyone else, why deprive yourself of the pleasure of food for the rest of your life to stick with a 1200 calorie diet when you can get the same (or better) results eating a bit more? it seems like punishment to me. i don't understand why anyone would want to punish themselves. oh well...

personally, if i never see the number "1200" again on here, it will be too soon. i actually hate the "1200" threads.

Mr_Knight

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1108368

This was a randomized controlled study that basically showed that metabolism decreases with prolonged calorie restriction.

Did you read the article? The group with the largest weight increase was the extra-low-calorie group. And metabolism slowed LESS is in the ultra-low calorie group than in the "normal deficit" group.

This paper SUPPORTS the "1200 and under" approach.

Also note that metabolism slowed by around 100 calories. The Idea that it will slow down to match a low intake is unsupported by any science, anywhere. If you eat at a very low intake, you *will* lose weight, no ifs or buts about it. And a decrease that small is easily fixable by a slight uptick in physical activity.

BrainyBurro

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1108368

This was a randomized controlled study that basically showed that metabolism decreases with prolonged calorie restriction.

Did you read the article? The group with the largest weight increase was the extra-low-calorie group. And metabolism slowed LESS is in the ultra-low calorie group than in the "normal deficit" group.

This paper SUPPORTS the "1200 and under" approach.

Also note that metabolism slowed by around 100 calories. The Idea that it will slow down to match a low intake is unsupported by any science, anywhere. If you eat at a very low intake, you *will* lose weight, no ifs or buts about it. And a decrease that small is easily fixable by a slight uptick in physical activity.

i don't think AT slows as much as some people fear either, but i do see 1200 calorie diets as the gateway to yo-yo dieting (periods of deprivation followed by periods of binging) and even eating disorders. however, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on here of women doing the 1200 calorie weight loss method and having it work, until one day it stops working. then they are stuck in a long plateau. either they forgot how to weigh their food overnight, or something else is happening (cortisol levels get too high, etc.). my main argument to people is that if they can get the same results at 1400-1500 calories and be happier, then why do 1200 calories?