Science only please - the case against 1200 kcals
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IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.0 -
Long-term effects of a very low calorie diet (Nutrilett) in obesity treatment. A prospective, randomized, comparison between VLCD and a hypocaloric diet+behavior modification and their combination.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488
I couldn't figure out how to get to the full version of this one. Its most interesting conclusion was:Twenty-four months weight maintenance and drop out rates are independent of whether the initial treatment commences with VLCD or a hypocaloric diet
which means that in these test subjects, maintenance and behaviour was not impacted whether they lost their initial weight quickly or slowly. The diet used was < 500kcals per day which seems super severe. The study was done in 1997, which doesn't seem too old ... I wasn't aware you could put people on such a low calorie regimen without really strong justification.
I think this part of that study was interesting, because it addressed the sustainability of the loss as compared to the size of the deficit. A lot of people on here repeat the statement (or something similar to it) that a larger deficit can make maintenance harder, and it seems to contradict that.
This one:Long-term low-protein, low-calorie diet and endurance exercise modulate metabolic factors associated with cancer risk
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/84/6/1456.long
looks like a good starting point for a new thread on Paleo vs low-protein, since it makes the exact opposite claims. i.e. Paleo supporters believe that protein is essential for lowering IGF-1 and other risk factors associated with cancer, while this study shows that endurance cardio combined with very low protein is beneficial. The data for the study look too inconclusive to me but they are suggestive.
Osric
I just added that one, because it was an interesting result and thought it added a bit of complexity to the topic.0 -
IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
I read her profile and it says shes eat 1200 calories and does NOT eat back her exercise calories. However, every other saterday she would take a break from dieting an usually consumes 4000 calories on those days on average. So in a way she DOES eat back her exercise calories or atleast some of them back, just not on the days she burns them.0 -
And, to chime in here, if I can. Did you go right to 2,000 as soon as you hit goal or go up slowly, like 100 cals a week? Did you experience a temporary weight gain when you did? I'm nearing maintenance and am curious about other people's techniques.IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
Edit for atrocious spelling.0 -
And, to chime in here, if I can. Did you go right to 2,000 as soon as you hit goal or go up slowly, like 100 cals a week? Did you experience a temporary weight gain when you did? I'm nearing maintenance and am curious about other people's techniques.IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
Edit for atrocious spelling.
YES I EXERCISE! (yelling is more fun when peolpe dont like it). For about 2 hours per day (cardio / weights), Monday through Friday. I did not activley eat back my exact exercise calories, so, I never logged them. I took every other Saturday to eat as i please, so, I am guessing that maybe that equalled 25% to 50% of my actual exercise cals, i dont know...
I did about 2 or 3 "levels" of upping my cals, just for like, a test run, I guess. I never gained, only lost! I went to 1500, still lost, then 1800, still lost a little, then 2000, where I seem to be losing a few ounces a week. I dont eat a perfect 2000 a day. I do, maybe 1300 calories one day, 2400 cals the next day, 1500 cals the next day, 2300 cals the next day, and so on. I try to make it where my weekly average comes to about 2000... but I really like to go overboard on the weekends, so I spread them out through the week...
for example, yesterday i ate at 2900 cals, but today, im at 1500... im at my weekly average however!0 -
Thanks! One last question, did you do weight training throughout? I just started six weeks ago, but I think it's a big key to successful maintenance. I'll be interested to see what Sara and Sidesteel say.
And, to chime in here, if I can. Did you go right to 2,000 as soon as you hit goal or go up slowly, like 100 cals a week? Did you experience a temporary weight gain when you did? I'm nearing maintenance and am curious about other people's techniques.IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
Edit for atrocious spelling.
YES I EXERCISE! (yelling is more fun when peolpe dont like it). For about 2 hours per day (cardio / weights), Monday through Friday. I did not activley eat back my exact exercise calories, so, I never logged them. I took every other Saturday to eat as i please, so, I am guessing that maybe that equalled 25% to 50% of my actual exercise cals, i dont know...
I did about 2 or 3 "levels" of upping my cals, just for like, a test run, I guess. I never gained, only lost! I went to 1500, still lost, then 1800, still lost a little, then 2000, where I seem to be losing a few ounces a week. I dont eat a perfect 2000 a day. I do, maybe 1300 calories one day, 2400 cals the next day, 1500 cals the next day, 2300 cals the next day, and so on. I try to make it where my weekly average comes to about 2000... but I really like to go overboard on the weekends, so I spread them out through the week...0 -
Thanks! One last question, did you do weight training throughout? I just started six weeks ago, but I think it's a big key to successful maintenance. I'll be interested to see what Sara and Sidesteel say.
And, to chime in here, if I can. Did you go right to 2,000 as soon as you hit goal or go up slowly, like 100 cals a week? Did you experience a temporary weight gain when you did? I'm nearing maintenance and am curious about other people's techniques.IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
Edit for atrocious spelling.
YES I EXERCISE! (yelling is more fun when peolpe dont like it). For about 2 hours per day (cardio / weights), Monday through Friday. I did not activley eat back my exact exercise calories, so, I never logged them. I took every other Saturday to eat as i please, so, I am guessing that maybe that equalled 25% to 50% of my actual exercise cals, i dont know...
I did about 2 or 3 "levels" of upping my cals, just for like, a test run, I guess. I never gained, only lost! I went to 1500, still lost, then 1800, still lost a little, then 2000, where I seem to be losing a few ounces a week. I dont eat a perfect 2000 a day. I do, maybe 1300 calories one day, 2400 cals the next day, 1500 cals the next day, 2300 cals the next day, and so on. I try to make it where my weekly average comes to about 2000... but I really like to go overboard on the weekends, so I spread them out through the week...
for the most part, yes. however, not for the first 2 months. i was so intimifdated going into that gym at first, 100 pounds over weight, that i went straight up stairs, did my cardio, and got the hell out of there! lol... a couple months later, i finally worked up the courage, and have been doing it ever since!0 -
I wanted to take a second to thank those people who have posted studies and those who are reading / responding to the studies.
My apologies for posting off-topic in my own thread, but I wanted to encourage the kind of discussion the thread is supposed to consist of :-)
I am not advocating for one approach or another. Science is not about advocating - I do my advocating in other threads. My opinion and history is documented in my introducing myself thread, and you're welcome to yell obsceneties at me over there: https://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1107326-hacker-s-diet-fan
Osric0 -
Just like you get tired of seeing us saying that you should eat more. We get just as tired of people like you complaining about people like us.
If you want to eat 1200 then go ahead. No one is stopping you from doing that. We don't go over there and shove more food in your mouth. If you want to eat 1200 then go exercise your heart out and lose weight then go ahead. If/when you stall then don't post on here asking why you stalled. Because just like you're tired of seeing people bash 1200 cal diets, we get tired of seeing people ask "I have been eating 1200 calories and stopped losing weight, why?"
This is your first month here. Instead of getting mad at everyone bashing 1200 why don't you just do it and prove it to yourself that it works. No one criticizes you, unless you bring attention to yourself, like you just have. There is plenty of science out there talking about this subject. Many of us have gone through the trouble of researching it and reading it. You on the other hand don't want to bother doing it for yourself. You want it presented to you. Or you could very easily search on this site and you'll find 1,127,457 threads about it.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...................GO!!!!!!
^^^^^ It's all true though!!!! Not one way is the right way so whining about it on forums is a waste of time. We should all eat what we're happy with and work out like a pro!
I didnt create it... I just said that comment.. And i had some input to encourage others to do what they believe is good for them0 -
I went through Binge Eating Disorder, and clearly you never had. My definition of bingeing must be far different than yours. I agree that low calorie "diets" and no lifestyle change is the gateway to yo-yoing.i don't think AT slows as much as some people fear either, but i do see 1200 calorie diets as the gateway to yo-yo dieting (periods of deprivation followed by periods of binging) and even eating disorders.
There is nothing wrong with alternating periods of "deprivation" with periods of "binging" - it's what our bodies evolved to do, and it is our most natural state.0 -
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1108368
This was a randomized controlled study that basically showed that metabolism decreases with prolonged calorie restriction.
The problem with 1200 cal diets isn't that you can't lose weight on them it's the fact that your bmr decreases and makes maintenance that much harder, and who only wants to eat 1500 cals the rest of their life to maintain weight. With that said I think people just have to be smart and have a maintenance plan in place to build BMR back up if they find they gain weight when eating 1500 cals and not think their only option is to drop cals even lower.
I weighed 95kg at my heaviest on 8th Feb 2012, by september 2012 I was at 64kg. Now tell me you cant lose weight on 1200. I've also managed to get down to 56kg on 1200 & maintain that by doing 4:3 with 0 calorie fasting days.
Now explain to me again how you can't lose weight on 1200cal as well as maintain it later?0 -
Long-term low-protein, low-calorie diet and endurance exercise modulate metabolic factors associated with cancer risk
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/84/6/1456.long
looks like a good starting point for a new thread on Paleo vs low-protein, since it makes the exact opposite claims. i.e. Paleo supporters believe that protein is essential for lowering IGF-1 and other risk factors associated with cancer, while this study shows that endurance cardio combined with very low protein is beneficial. The data for the study look too inconclusive to me but they are suggestive.
Osric
Slightly off topic, but I think it's pretty well established that IGF-1 is directly related to protein intake.0 -
Long-term effects of a very low calorie diet (Nutrilett) in obesity treatment. A prospective, randomized, comparison between VLCD and a hypocaloric diet+behavior modification and their combination.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488
I couldn't figure out how to get to the full version of this one. Its most interesting conclusion was:
Full text here:
http://www.bionorpharma.com/nutripharma.no/Research_+_Documentation/Summaries/Weight_Management/filestore/10Ryttig1997.pdf0 -
Long-term effects of a very low calorie diet (Nutrilett) in obesity treatment. A prospective, randomized, comparison between VLCD and a hypocaloric diet+behavior modification and their combination.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488
I couldn't figure out how to get to the full version of this one. Its most interesting conclusion was:Twenty-four months weight maintenance and drop out rates are independent of whether the initial treatment commences with VLCD or a hypocaloric diet
which means that in these test subjects, maintenance and behaviour was not impacted whether they lost their initial weight quickly or slowly. The diet used was < 500kcals per day which seems super severe. The study was done in 1997, which doesn't seem too old ... I wasn't aware you could put people on such a low calorie regimen without really strong justification.
I think this part of that study was interesting, because it addressed the sustainability of the loss as compared to the size of the deficit. A lot of people on here repeat the statement (or something similar to it) that a larger deficit can make maintenance harder, and it seems to contradict that.
I've been looking into this a bit and there's still more reading to do but for example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
^ And this references some other studies that may be of interest.0 -
Questions answered.
0 -
IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
I read her profile and it says shes eat 1200 calories and does NOT eat back her exercise calories. However, every other saterday she would take a break from dieting an usually consumes 4000 calories on those days on average. So in a way she DOES eat back her exercise calories or atleast some of them back, just not on the days she burns them.
Ah, I should have read further before posting my question as well. It's all about the weekly total.0 -
IM NOT A SCIENTISTS, AND I FAILED IT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THAT BEING SAID, FOR ME, THE BEST SCIENCE IS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I LOST 95 POUNDS, IN LESS THAN 11 MONTHS, EATING 1200 CALORIES A DAY.
No, my metabolism did not get screwed, I have been at maintenance for 2 months now, eating an average of about 2000 calories a day when you factor in my crazy weekends, and I am still slowly losing.
No, I did not feel tired, starved, or like I had no energy...
No, I did not lose only muscle, I lost mostly fat, BODY FAT WENT FROM 44% TO 22%... however, with any large loss of weight, muscle loss can be expected...
No, I am not flabby, I exercised since day 1, with both cardio and strength training...
My scientific proof??? All I have are my before and after pictures...
MAYBE IM A SNOWFLAKE, SINCE I DID NOT EXPERIENCE THIS END OF THE WORLD YOUR GOING TO DIE STARVATION MODE "MYTH"
All I know, is I lost the weight, I feel great, and keeping it off has been fairly easy, since I am still losing after transitioning to maintenance...
***I chose 1200 because I wanted fast results. I know my personality, and all my other failed attempts at weight loss were because it seemed like such a long daunting road... I wanted it gone fast, and thats what I did. NO REGRETS!
Did you workout? If yes, did you eat back your cals? If no how big was your deficit after factoring in the workout, or put differently and easier to find on MFP what were your net cals?
p.s. Please don't yell at me when you write the answer.
I read her profile and it says shes eat 1200 calories and does NOT eat back her exercise calories. However, every other saterday she would take a break from dieting an usually consumes 4000 calories on those days on average. So in a way she DOES eat back her exercise calories or atleast some of them back, just not on the days she burns them.
Ah, I should have read further before posting my question as well. It's all about the weekly total.
Yes, it is. I went through the math months ago where she went through her exercise routine and intake, and it figured out to a net of around 1200 a day. MFP burn rates are high, I tend to only eat 50% back and that gets my desired weight loss goal perfect. Of course a good chunk of it is guesswork and trial and error, but educated guesswork.0 -
I see, Otterluv. Thank you for sharing that.
I like your picture, too. Nice to see faces on here. 0 -
I wanted to take a second to thank those people who have posted studies and those who are reading / responding to the studies.
My apologies for posting off-topic in my own thread, but I wanted to encourage the kind of discussion the thread is supposed to consist of :-)
I'm glad you posted this as well. It's interesting, and I hope more people chime in with more science-based rather than anecdotal comments.0 -
I see, Otterluv. Thank you for sharing that.
I like your picture, too. Nice to see faces on here.
TY.
It was on a different thread, and the burn rates I used were about 50% of MFP's generally optimistic estimates.
She's done an amazing job at reaching her goal, but I do think that it's important to note the binge days and how they configure into the weekly average as part of the big picture. Accurate data is always best :flowerforyou:0
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