Science only please - the case against 1200 kcals

SLLRunner

The proof is in those of us who DO eat way more than 1,200 calories, exercise, and still lose weight. Look around MFP forums, you will find plenty of people who eat way more than 1,200 calories and have lost tons of weight.

I have eaten about 1,400-1,800 calories over the last several months and lost 23 pounds. I exercise, though, and I have my goals set to lose the last ten pounds at .5 pounds per week.

If you chose to use the MFP tools, 1,200 is the bare minimum for most women (I think men are required more) to lose 2 pounds per week, but that is about sedentary (you do nothing at all but sleep and sit on the couch all day). Most of us are up and about, working,chasing kids around, walking, doing extra exercise, just doing whatever we do, which requires fuel for our bodies.

I'm sure 1,200 calories a day works for people as well, but I always wonder how a person feels. Man, if I ate 1,200 calories with all the stuff I do I would be in the hospital or trying to take bites out of my two cats (okay, not really about the cats. :bigsmile:). I would be downright starving.

Seriously, in the spirit of devil's advocate, what is your scientific proof that 1,200 calorie diets are healthy?

SLLRunner

Osric,

And, I see by your diary that you are logging in between 700-1,100 calories per day even though you exercise. What about fuel for your body with the exercise?

Mr_Knight

i don't think AT slows as much as some people fear either, but i do see 1200 calorie diets as the gateway to yo-yo dieting (periods of deprivation followed by periods of binging) and even eating disorders.

There is nothing wrong with alternating periods of "deprivation" with periods of "binging" - it's what our bodies evolved to do, and it is our most natural state.

neandermagnon

just for the record, the arguments against 1200 calorie diets are directed at the METHOD, not the PERSON. there are a million threads on here where an OP posts about their 1200 calorie diet, gets negative feedback about that diet, and proceeds to take all of the negative feedback as direct personal insults.

it's almost never a direct personal insult until that happens. then they respond with their own insults and the thread gets derailed into a pissing contest.

so if you're going to post about 1200 calorie diets, be mature enough to understand that:

a) you will get negative feedback
b) the feedback should not be taken as personal insults

there are many arguments against 1200 calorie diets. a simply search will yield an abundance of threads and an afternoon's worth of reading. however, for a very small percentage of women, who have taken the time to read all of those threads, double check their numbers, and ensure that their nutritional goals are being met, 1200 may be an acceptable calorie goal. nobody disputes that. those women do exist and some have taken the time to understand and verify the science behind their choice. for those women, i simply say "more power to you!".

however, for everyone else, why deprive yourself of the pleasure of food for the rest of your life to stick with a 1200 calorie diet when you can get the same (or better) results eating a bit more? it seems like punishment to me. i don't understand why anyone would want to punish themselves. oh well...

personally, if i never see the number "1200" again on here, it will be too soon. i actually hate the "1200" threads.

ALL of this ^^^^ especially the bit in bold. I really don't understand why people get so defensive over 1200 calorie diets, when the vast majority of people can get the same results, or even better, by eating quite a lot more. I don't see what's so fantastic about 1200 calorie diets that make them so worth defending.

Mr_Knight

Where does the "rest of your life" straw man come from? I don't know anybody who expects to spend the rest of their life losing weight - it's a temporary process to get to a specific goal.

SapiensPisces

This is also a good read on the subject and provides citations to support the arguments made, though it's a bit old (2001 article):

The Effect of Low-calorie Diets on Metabolic Rate

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414354

BrainyBurro

i don't think AT slows as much as some people fear either, but i do see 1200 calorie diets as the gateway to yo-yo dieting (periods of deprivation followed by periods of binging) and even eating disorders.

There is nothing wrong with alternating periods of "deprivation" with periods of "binging" - it's what our bodies evolved to do, and it is our most natural state.

i'm not talking about how it was done 20,000 years ago... i'm talking about how it is done now when food is plentiful year round. our distant ancestors probably didn't care if they weighed 155lbs during periods of plenty and 125lbs during periods of famine. nowadays, that sort of fluctuation is precisely why a multi-billion $ weight loss industry exists.

today, the typical dieter will start at 155lbs, go on a strict deprivation diet until they get back down to their goal weight of 125lbs, relax their diet and go back to their old eating habits and quickly regain that 30lbs, only to start all over again with another deprivation diet. it's a horrible cycle for these folks (mentally).

DamePiglet

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1108368

This was a randomized controlled study that basically showed that metabolism decreases with prolonged calorie restriction.

Did you read the article? The group with the largest weight increase was the extra-low-calorie group. And metabolism slowed LESS is in the ultra-low calorie group than in the "normal deficit" group.

This paper SUPPORTS the "1200 and under" approach.

That's how I interpreted it, too.

Interesting.

Now I will just shuffle back and watch this thread unwind. :-)

BrainyBurro

Where does the "rest of your life" straw man come from? I don't know anybody who expects to spend the rest of their life losing weight - it's a temporary process to get to a specific goal.

it's not a strawman. it's a mentality that many women on here can attest to having held themselves for many years. in fact, one of the biggest proponents on here for the 1200 calorie diet likes to come into these threads and brag about how she's eaten 1200 calories for years and feels great and is never hungry. my retort is usually something along the lines of "google leptin". (note - i'm not sure if she's even still on here anymore because i think i put her on ignore because of one of those threads some time ago.)

i'm a guy. i can eat lots of calories. so the 1200 calorie arguments don't affect me. i can lose weight eating 3500 calories a day. i lose faster at 2500. i'd certainly never entertain the idea of eating 1200 calories a day for any length of time. so you'll need to use the search function here to find all of those threads from women who did live for years with the mindset that they'd be eating only 1200 calories for the rest of their lives. those threads exist. i've read some of them. i just don't care enough about winning this argument to do that searching for you. *shrugs*

Mr_Knight

i'm not talking about how it was done 20,000 years ago...

Neither am I. Cycles of excess and deprivation are still common today in much of the world. Even for those of us in the West, they only went away about 200 years ago, and even then sporadically, and not everywhere.

This isn't ancient history, this is recent history, and our bodies retain the expectation of binging and fasting.

neandermagnon

Where does the "rest of your life" straw man come from? I don't know anybody who expects to spend the rest of their life losing weight - it's a temporary process to get to a specific goal.

if you want to keep the weight off for life, then you have to change your eating and exercise habits for life. If you see dieting as a temporary thing to drop the weight, followed by going back to how you ate before, then say hello to a lifetime of yo-yo dieting, which is actually less healthy than just being obese.

maintaining a healthy weight for life is about maintaining healthy eating and exercise habits for life. And the best way to achieve that is to make your healthy lifestyle as pleasant, easy and sustainable as you can, so you can stick to it for life. 1200 cals/day will not achieve that for the vast majority of people.

auroranflash

Just personal experience -

When I started, much like many others, I started at 1,200 calories. I lost a little bit of weight but was miserable for about a month. The loss did not equal the discomfort it put me through. When I started friending females who were eating significantly more (1600-2200 net, depending on activity level) and weight training along with some or no cardio, it's like a door opened for me.

I can actually eat a decent amount of food, and food that I like, and not have anxiety over every calorie I put in my mouth as long as I make reasonable decisions, strength train, get in a bit of cardio (for its many health benefits as well as added calorie burn), and end up looking and feeling better than if I restricted to 1,200.

I also wouldn't have crazy days on the weekends where I felt the need to eat all the things to make up for eating so low during the week.

The weight loss may be slower with an 1,800 calorie net rather than a 1,200 calorie net, but I'm also making sure I'm getting the nutrients I need and I am sustaining as much lean mass as possible. Part of the yo-yo diet syndrome is that people eat very low, see the scale weight drop dramatically, but don't realize they've lost muscle along with it. This lowers their resting metabolic rate, meaning even if they continue to eat at 1,200 or decide to raise their calories slightly, their bodies will be less efficient in burning off that extra energy and they'll be more prone to store that fat.

There's also the effect of hormonal changes when you reduce your calories to such a low number. Look up ghrelin on google and see what I mean.

This isn't a'scientific study', just a personal experience. The slow and steady weight loss with strength training and some cardio thrown in usually offers the best chance of keeping the weight off because you're making subtle, sustainable life changes, you're retaining as much lean body mass as possible, and you're not sending your hormones into a tizzy by drastically reducing what energy it's used to receiving, so it has less reason to rebel and store any extra energy you give it.

redladywitch

just for the record, the arguments against 1200 calorie diets are directed at the METHOD, not the PERSON. there are a million threads on here where an OP posts about their 1200 calorie diet, gets negative feedback about that diet, and proceeds to take all of the negative feedback as direct personal insults.

it's almost never a direct personal insult until that happens. then they respond with their own insults and the thread gets derailed into a pissing contest.

so if you're going to post about 1200 calorie diets, be mature enough to understand that:

a) you will get negative feedback
b) the feedback should not be taken as personal insults

there are many arguments against 1200 calorie diets. a simply search will yield an abundance of threads and an afternoon's worth of reading. however, for a very small percentage of women, who have taken the time to read all of those threads, double check their numbers, and ensure that their nutritional goals are being met, 1200 may be an acceptable calorie goal. nobody disputes that. those women do exist and some have taken the time to understand and verify the science behind their choice. for those women, i simply say "more power to you!".

however, for everyone else, why deprive yourself of the pleasure of food for the rest of your life to stick with a 1200 calorie diet when you can get the same (or better) results eating a bit more? it seems like punishment to me. i don't understand why anyone would want to punish themselves. oh well...

personally, if i never see the number "1200" again on here, it will be too soon. i actually hate the "1200" threads.

Cindyinpg

Where does the "rest of your life" straw man come from? I don't know anybody who expects to spend the rest of their life losing weight - it's a temporary process to get to a specific goal.

All I know is that there are far too many people who said they 'successfully' lost at 1200 and are now maintaining on only 1200 too. I will do what I can to avoid that, thanks.

guroprincess

Why not just let people do what they want and assume they have a modicum of personal responsibility with regards to their own health and the way their body reacts?

DamePiglet

Why not just let people do what they want and assume they have a modicum of personal responsibility with regards to their own health and the way their body reacts?

^^^^ this.

happysherri

I know everyones different.

However i dont need science to know that i had no energy and was hungry at just 1300 calories. Now at 1600 calories i feel awesome and have actually lost weight a little quicker?! I can be patient and lose slow since i hope to make this ongoing. Not a diet.

SideSteel

Tagging to read some of these studies and add my thoughts at some point.

Sarauk2sf

Tagging to read some of these studies and add my thoughts at some point.

^^what he said

Cranquistador

INterested.