calories in calories out...are you sure?
BrandNewFabulousMe
Posts: 259
I've been eating the same calorie amount with little to no change. I lowered my carb intake only by 70...eating the same amount of calories and the scale is moving. All I keep seeing is calories in calories out, I have a feeling it may not be just limited to that. Any thoughts on this?
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Replies
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Yes it's science. If your not seeing results either your calories are set too high or your eating more than you think0
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Cutting out carbs only works because it makes you eat more nutrient and calorie dense foods. This means you stay full longer and tend to eat less. But it is still calories in and calories out that affects weight loss. If you cut carbs and eat at a maintenance level instead of a deficit you won't lose. If you don't cut carbs but are super strict about eating at a deficit, you will lose. It really is that simple, barring medical issues.0
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a lot of people are not accurate with their logging. if you're not weighing your food, you're probably not accurate. if you are snacking and not logging it, you're definitely not accurate.
if your BMR and TDEE settings are correct and you have established a modest calorie deficit from them, then eating at that level and accurately logging WILL cause you to lose weight*.
* - excluding any considerations for actual medical conditions diagnosed by actual doctors that can affect your metabolism.0 -
I find I overestimated my carbs more...ie I think i ate a serving of cereal at 3/4 cups but really it was 1 cup but I will actually count out almonds. A hard boiled egg is a definite serving while a handful of pretzels is close to one serving. Maybe the protein you are eating are more exact in how they are logged, knowing that no entry is 100% valid, but you were guesstimating more on your carbs???0
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Hi, yes for weight loss it's just taking on slightly less calories than you use. For health and nutrition keep an eye on your macros.
Wait - the scale is moving or not moving? If it isn't, have a little look at your logging, make sure it's precise- or it could be an overestimation of calories used in exercise?0 -
Ok so its making sense....thank you!
Im just still confused that even when I weigh and measure which im pretty addicted to my scale im losing only when my cards go down and calories are not touched. Hmmmm0 -
yes, calories out vs calories in ...I am very sure as I have dropped 40 pounds over the years using this method...
You lost weight by lowering carbs because carbs tend to hold onto more water weight, so when you restrict carbs you lose water weight and are also losing weight due to glycogen stores being depleted. Once you increase carbs a little bit you will gain weight as water weight comes back, and glycogen is replenished...
carbs do not make you fat. Eating over maintenance calories makes you fat...0 -
low carb diets result in your body burning glycogen to make up the calorie deficit, glycogen is stored along with water, so you see more scale weight loss on a low carb diet, but you're not burning any more actual fat than if you'd been eating the same number of calories but a higher proportion of them coming from carbs
the body burns and stores fat slowly, big gains and losses on the scale in short amounts of time, the weight is not just from fat.
Also, the water weight losses from low carb diets come back when you start eating carbs again, because your body simply stores them as glycogen, along with water. Water weight gains can seriously mess with your head if you don't know what's going on, so it's a good idea to track progress in actual fat loss through other methods, e.g. skinfold caliers, how your clothes fit, circumference measurements etc. These are more reliable indicators of actual fat loss than scale weight alone.0 -
yes, calories out vs calories in ...I am very sure as I have dropped 40 pounds over the years using this method...
You lost weight by lowering carbs because carbs tend to hold onto more water weight, so when you restrict carbs you lose water weight and are also losing weight due to glycogen stores being depleted. Once you increase carbs a little bit you will gain weight as water weight comes back, and glycogen is replenished...
carbs do not make you fat. Eating over maintenance calories makes you fat...
got it... now that is what I wanted to know!0 -
low carb diets result in your body burning glycogen to make up the calorie deficit, glycogen is stored along with water, so you see more scale weight loss on a low carb diet, but you're not burning any more actual fat than if you'd been eating the same number of calories but a higher proportion of them coming from carbs
the body burns and stores fat slowly, big gains and losses on the scale in short amounts of time, the weight is not just from fat.
Also, the water weight losses from low carb diets come back when you start eating carbs again, because your body simply stores them as glycogen, along with water. Water weight gains can seriously mess with your head if you don't know what's going on, so it's a good idea to track progress in actual fat loss through other methods, e.g. skinfold caliers, how your clothes fit, circumference measurements etc. These are more reliable indicators of actual fat loss than scale weight alone.
thanks for breaking that down! you and the poster right above you pretty much just answered my question!!!0 -
It is, unless you've got a metabolic issue. Make sure that you're weighing/measuring your food, logging accurately, and exercising at the right intensity. Do keep in mind that MFP overestimates the calorie burn from a lot of exercises. If you go for a month being honest with yourself and don't see any progress, see a doctor about a possible thyroid or pituitary issue.0
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I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
no worries, it's a great question...now you've got me curious about it!!!0 -
It is, unless you've got a metabolic issue. Make sure that you're weighing/measuring your food, logging accurately, and exercising at the right intensity. Do keep in mind that MFP overestimates the calorie burn from a lot of exercises. If you go for a month being honest with yourself and don't see any progress, see a doctor about a possible thyroid or pituitary issue.
I don't eat all of my exercise calories back b/c some of the calorie burns mfp gives me I know are way to high! I just eat some0 -
I've been eating the same calorie amount with little to no change. I lowered my carb intake only by 70...eating the same amount of calories and the scale is moving. All I keep seeing is calories in calories out, I have a feeling it may not be just limited to that. Any thoughts on this?
If you lowered your carb intake by 70
Is that 70 gr or 70 cal?
If 70 gr that is 280 calories.
So if total caloric intake stayed the same, where did you make up the 280 calories?
If protein, well that is 70 gr of protein
If fat, that is ~31 gr of fat.
Regarding protein, and let me stress this, so I don't get flamed by people on here......this is MY OPINION based on various reading.
I think the thermic effect of food (TEF) in regards to protein is higher.....so if you were to raise protein levels, while either keeping carbs the same, or lowering the carbs (this would be my recommendation).......that would have an effect on BW. It helps to lower it.
There was someone by the name of Livesey, who thought that the food energy standard should be re-done for protein...
Right now carbs and protein both get equated to 1gr == 4 calories.
He felt that 1gr of protein == 3.2 calories.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299073
So if that were correct.
Then
100 gr of protein at 4 calories == 400
100 gr of protein at 3.2 calories == 320
Difference of 80 calories......
I also saw something in an AARR and I was trying to find it, but I can not locate it......
But it mentioned the affect of increased protein in regards to carb intake and how that played on BF.
So again, this is my opinion based on reading......so take it as you wish.
But also, make sure you are tracking your food properly......a scale will help make sure you are accurate.0 -
I find I overestimated my carbs more...ie I think i ate a serving of cereal at 3/4 cups but really it was 1 cup but I will actually count out almonds. A hard boiled egg is a definite serving while a handful of pretzels is close to one serving. Maybe the protein you are eating are more exact in how they are logged, knowing that no entry is 100% valid, but you were guesstimating more on your carbs???
I guess I could have been. I will keep a closer eye. I'm still eating the same things and I'm still eating all of my calories each day. the only things i changed was eating less carbs and adding more protein now my scale is moving. it still confuses me how those who are on low carb diets lose so much weight, but other posters say it's just the water.. does my body hold 80 lbs of extra water? but I will make sure my foods are more accurate in portion sizes. Thanks!
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I've been eating the same calorie amount with little to no change. I lowered my carb intake only by 70...eating the same amount of calories and the scale is moving. All I keep seeing is calories in calories out, I have a feeling it may not be just limited to that. Any thoughts on this?
If you lowered your carb intake by 70
Is that 70 gr or 70 cal?
If 70 gr that is 280 calories.
So if total caloric intake stayed the same, where did you make up the 280 calories?
If protein, well that is 70 gr of protein
If fat, that is ~31 gr of fat.
Regarding protein, and let me stress this, so I don't get flamed by people on here......this is MY OPINION based on various reading.
I think the thermic effect of food (TEF) in regards to protein is higher.....so if you were to raise protein levels, while either keeping carbs the same, or lowering the carbs (this would be my recommendation).......that would have an effect on BW. It helps to lower it.
There was someone by the name of Livesey, who thought that the food energy standard should be re-done for protein...
Right now carbs and protein both get equated to 1gr == 4 calories.
He felt that 1gr of protein == 3.2 calories.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299073
So if that were correct.
Then
100 gr of protein at 4 calories == 400
100 gr of protein at 3.2 calories == 320
Difference of 80 calories......
I also saw something in an AARR and I was trying to find it, but I can not locate it......
But it mentioned the affect of increased protein in regards to carb intake and how that played on BF.
So again, this is my opinion based on reading......so take it as you wish.
But also, make sure you are tracking your food properly......a scale will help make sure you are accurate.
sorry, lowered it by 70 gr.. but i'm still eating all of my calories through cottage cheese, nuts, etc. I increased my protein and fat intake. my calorie intake is still the same. With what you stated that is what I was wondering. I do feel that lowering my carb intake, but not going low carb but keeping the same calorie goal has allowed my scale to move. thank you for all of the information!!0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Yes. Most people will gain a couple of pounds when they start eating at maintenance because of water being restored the same way your body weight will fluctuate 5 or 6 pounds in any given day due to normal bodily functions. You just have to remember it's just water weight.0 -
Yes I'm sure. It's science.0
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I've been eating the same calorie amount with little to no change. I lowered my carb intake only by 70...eating the same amount of calories and the scale is moving. All I keep seeing is calories in calories out, I have a feeling it may not be just limited to that. Any thoughts on this?
Yes, we're sure. 100% absolutely sure.0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Carbs can be stored as glycogen. So can protein and fats.
It's energy that gets stored as glycogen. Glycogen is your body's primary source of fuel when you start moving. As the free sugar in your blood gets used, glycogen gets broken down to maintain blood sugar levels. As glycogen gets depleted, it turns primarily to fat stores and/or other body tissue to maintain blood sugar levels.
When your body has excess calories, they typically first get stored as glycogen. Glycogen storage also requires water. So if you eat a big calorie surplus after dieting for a while, your weight will bump up a few pounds as you replenish a bunch of glycogen. Then excess calories start getting stored as fat.
Think of glycogen as short-term calorie storage and adipose tissue (fat) as long-term calorie storage. Glycogen is fast and easily utilized, but there's a limited capacity of it. Fat is a bit slower but more stable over time and you can store more energy there.0 -
I find I overestimated my carbs more...ie I think i ate a serving of cereal at 3/4 cups but really it was 1 cup but I will actually count out almonds. A hard boiled egg is a definite serving while a handful of pretzels is close to one serving. Maybe the protein you are eating are more exact in how they are logged, knowing that no entry is 100% valid, but you were guesstimating more on your carbs???I guess I could have been. I will keep a closer eye. I'm still eating the same things and I'm still eating all of my calories each day. the only things i changed was eating less carbs and adding more protein now my scale is moving. it still confuses me how those who are on low carb diets lose so much weight, but other posters say it's just the water.. does my body hold 80 lbs of extra water? but I will make sure my foods are more accurate in portion sizes. Thanks!
:noway: Hey cool, does that mean I'm not overweight, I'm really just a camel carrying around a LOOOOOOOOOT of water?:laugh:
LOL0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Yes. Which is why you have to eat less AND move more. Moving more uses the glycogen and you excrete the water through sweat and other bodily functions.
If you don't move more, you risk losing muscle mass at a faster rate than fat.0 -
I find I overestimated my carbs more...ie I think i ate a serving of cereal at 3/4 cups but really it was 1 cup but I will actually count out almonds. A hard boiled egg is a definite serving while a handful of pretzels is close to one serving. Maybe the protein you are eating are more exact in how they are logged, knowing that no entry is 100% valid, but you were guesstimating more on your carbs???I guess I could have been. I will keep a closer eye. I'm still eating the same things and I'm still eating all of my calories each day. the only things i changed was eating less carbs and adding more protein now my scale is moving. it still confuses me how those who are on low carb diets lose so much weight, but other posters say it's just the water.. does my body hold 80 lbs of extra water? but I will make sure my foods are more accurate in portion sizes. Thanks!
:noway: Hey cool, does that mean I'm not overweight, I'm really just a camel carrying around a LOOOOOOOOOT of water?:laugh:
LOL
lmbo!0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Carbs can be stored as glycogen. So can protein and fats.
It's energy that gets stored as glycogen. Glycogen is your body's primary source of fuel when you start moving. As the free sugar in your blood gets used, glycogen gets broken down to maintain blood sugar levels. As glycogen gets depleted, it turns primarily to fat stores and/or other body tissue to maintain blood sugar levels.
When your body has excess calories, they typically first get stored as glycogen. Glycogen storage also requires water. So if you eat a big calorie surplus after dieting for a while, your weight will bump up a few pounds as you replenish a bunch of glycogen. Then excess calories start getting stored as fat.
Think of glycogen as short-term calorie storage and adipose tissue (fat) as long-term calorie storage. Glycogen is fast and easily utilized, but there's a limited capacity of it. Fat is a bit slower but more stable over time and you can store more energy there.
Thank you! So whether it's carbs or fat or protein you're eating it's entirely irrelevant to the glycogen & water levels you're holding? Just double-checkin...
Interesting stuff. So Atkins etc... & other low carb weight-loss programmes - it's all irrelevant, just calories?0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Yes. Which is why you have to eat less AND move more. Moving more uses the glycogen and you excrete the water through sweat and other bodily functions.
If you don't move more, you risk losing muscle mass at a faster rate than fat.
Let's not take it too far, now.
This sofa is very, VERY comfortable, Just sittin here respiring, keeping myself warm, letting my organs do their thing... 0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Carbs can be stored as glycogen. So can protein and fats.
It's energy that gets stored as glycogen. Glycogen is your body's primary source of fuel when you start moving. As the free sugar in your blood gets used, glycogen gets broken down to maintain blood sugar levels. As glycogen gets depleted, it turns primarily to fat stores and/or other body tissue to maintain blood sugar levels.
When your body has excess calories, they typically first get stored as glycogen. Glycogen storage also requires water. So if you eat a big calorie surplus after dieting for a while, your weight will bump up a few pounds as you replenish a bunch of glycogen. Then excess calories start getting stored as fat.
Think of glycogen as short-term calorie storage and adipose tissue (fat) as long-term calorie storage. Glycogen is fast and easily utilized, but there's a limited capacity of it. Fat is a bit slower but more stable over time and you can store more energy there.
Thank you! So whether it's carbs or fat or protein you're eating it's entirely irrelevant to the glycogen & water levels you're holding? Just double-checkin...
Interesting stuff. So Atkins etc... & other low carb weight-loss programmes - it's all irrelevant, just calories?
To the first part: pretty much, yes. There are some differences at the extremes, and protein plays a factor, but when it comes to body mass change it's calories that matter.
For the second part: carbs are basically irrelevant for weight loss. You want to make sure you get sufficient fat intake, since insufficient fat intake leads to problems with hormone levels and skin/nails/hair/brain function. You want to make sure you get plenty of protein, because protein intake helps preserve lean mass. You can't really get too much fat or protein unless you try, so carbs are kind of a sliding scale. You can reasonably get anywhere from no carb to "whatever's left over after you hit your fat and protein minimum." Very low carb can have negative effects on energy levels and will lead to some changes in body chemistry over time but don't have much effect on fat loss specifically.
In the end, calories are all that really matter for mass loss or gain. If your body has excess energy available, it will store it away as body mass. If your body is using more energy than it gets, it will break down some body mass to make up the difference.0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Carbs can be stored as glycogen. So can protein and fats.
It's energy that gets stored as glycogen. Glycogen is your body's primary source of fuel when you start moving. As the free sugar in your blood gets used, glycogen gets broken down to maintain blood sugar levels. As glycogen gets depleted, it turns primarily to fat stores and/or other body tissue to maintain blood sugar levels.
When your body has excess calories, they typically first get stored as glycogen. Glycogen storage also requires water. So if you eat a big calorie surplus after dieting for a while, your weight will bump up a few pounds as you replenish a bunch of glycogen. Then excess calories start getting stored as fat.
Think of glycogen as short-term calorie storage and adipose tissue (fat) as long-term calorie storage. Glycogen is fast and easily utilized, but there's a limited capacity of it. Fat is a bit slower but more stable over time and you can store more energy there.
Thank you! So whether it's carbs or fat or protein you're eating it's entirely irrelevant to the glycogen & water levels you're holding? Just double-checkin...
Interesting stuff. So Atkins etc... & other low carb weight-loss programmes - it's all irrelevant, just calories?
To the first part: pretty much, yes. There are some differences at the extremes, and protein plays a factor, but when it comes to body mass change it's calories that matter.
For the second part: carbs are basically irrelevant for weight loss. You want to make sure you get sufficient fat intake, since insufficient fat intake leads to problems with hormone levels and skin/nails/hair/brain function. You want to make sure you get plenty of protein, because protein intake helps preserve lean mass. You can't really get too much fat or protein unless you try, so carbs are kind of a sliding scale. You can reasonably get anywhere from no carb to "whatever's left over after you hit your fat and protein minimum." Very low carb can have negative effects on energy levels and will lead to some changes in body chemistry over time but don't have much effect on fat loss specifically.
In the end, calories are all that really matter for mass loss or gain. If your body has excess energy available, it will store it away as body mass. If your body is using more energy than it gets, it will break down some body mass to make up the difference.
Great stuff, much appreciated! Also... who are you and what have you done with Jonnythan? :bigsmile: 0 -
Great stuff, much appreciated! Also... who are you and what have you done with Jonnythan? :bigsmile:
When people ask legitimate questions for which I know answers or have helpful information, I often answer. Believe it or not, I have helped many people on this site and others (and real life) understand this stuff and change their lives.
When people say things that are wrong, or attack legitimate science or fact, I often respond critically.
There's a reason you personally have seen more of the latter than the former.0 -
I get SO confused with this. So carbs are stored as glycogen & water as food, in the muscles? W hat about when fat is burned, doesn't that get turned into glycogen & water, too? Also - what happens with the water thing when you hit maintenance - do you go up 3lb when you start eating your maintenance calories?
Sorry for the hijack, OP!
Carbs can be stored as glycogen. So can protein and fats.
It's energy that gets stored as glycogen. Glycogen is your body's primary source of fuel when you start moving. As the free sugar in your blood gets used, glycogen gets broken down to maintain blood sugar levels. As glycogen gets depleted, it turns primarily to fat stores and/or other body tissue to maintain blood sugar levels.
When your body has excess calories, they typically first get stored as glycogen. Glycogen storage also requires water. So if you eat a big calorie surplus after dieting for a while, your weight will bump up a few pounds as you replenish a bunch of glycogen. Then excess calories start getting stored as fat.
Think of glycogen as short-term calorie storage and adipose tissue (fat) as long-term calorie storage. Glycogen is fast and easily utilized, but there's a limited capacity of it. Fat is a bit slower but more stable over time and you can store more energy there.
Thank you! So whether it's carbs or fat or protein you're eating it's entirely irrelevant to the glycogen & water levels you're holding? Just double-checkin...
Interesting stuff. So Atkins etc... & other low carb weight-loss programmes - it's all irrelevant, just calories?
To the first part: pretty much, yes. There are some differences at the extremes, and protein plays a factor, but when it comes to body mass change it's calories that matter.
For the second part: carbs are basically irrelevant for weight loss. You want to make sure you get sufficient fat intake, since insufficient fat intake leads to problems with hormone levels and skin/nails/hair/brain function. You want to make sure you get plenty of protein, because protein intake helps preserve lean mass. You can't really get too much fat or protein unless you try, so carbs are kind of a sliding scale. You can reasonably get anywhere from no carb to "whatever's left over after you hit your fat and protein minimum." Very low carb can have negative effects on energy levels and will lead to some changes in body chemistry over time but don't have much effect on fat loss specifically.
In the end, calories are all that really matter for mass loss or gain. If your body has excess energy available, it will store it away as body mass. If your body is using more energy than it gets, it will break down some body mass to make up the difference.
^^^ ahaaaaa moment. ..got it
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