Scapegoat of this decade: Sugar.
Replies
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If you had "nasty and embarrassing side effects eating primal/paleo"...
...you were doing it wrong.
Lots of people do it by the book and end up with unpleasant side effects.0 -
Just looked at OP's diary - it explains a lot
Looking at his diary just makes me want some pumpkin loaf and pumpkin ice cream
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If sugar were magically made into an impossible molecule and there was no more sugar ever in the world, would there be any impact to the health and/or weight of human beings? I don't know, but I suspect there might be.
I very much doubt it. Sugar is not responsible for people's lack of self control - people who over-eat now with sugar would simply move their indulgences to another food product and over-eat that instead.
Like the "Primal" subculture who thinks the Path To Weightloss is paved with entire sticks of butter in their morning coffee, 'cause, you know, it'll suppress their appetites.0 -
In to find later. Sort of OT: sugar gliders!
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So the fact that some part of someone's life includes making money means that everything about their life, all their opinions and information, are crap? Well there's goes just about every single scientist, researcher, academic and doctor. They're all selling something, and according to your guys' logic, that means they're crackpots.
Honestly, have your opinions, everyone does, but rather than bashing someone else's, try these newfangled ideas called RESPECT and POLITENESS. Disagree politely, don't bash.
Honestly, these forums have gotten more and more unfriendly as time has gone on, and I'm finding it less and less useful to be here with people who'd rather spend their days laughing at others rather than having intelligent discussion. You can disagree with others and still be kind about it you know.
See, and this would be fine if you were supporting the other side of an intelligent discussion. The OP has links to actual studies and your retort is to paste links to opinion blogs while saying "There are studies on there somewhere."
No, if you want to have an intelligent discussion, then YOU go find the studies you are referring to and link them here to be analyzed.0 -
Saw it coming a mile away...........blog posts passed as sciencehttp://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-sugar/#axzz2i6sECFfm
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/#axzz2i6sECFfm
Here are two articles that help explain why sugar isn't all that healthy for us. Mark's usually pretty good about linking to the studies he's referring to if you want to look at the actual science; he's just put it all together into one convenient place.
I do agree that it's wrong to demonize any food or say it's something you can never eat; I think the point of life isn't to live by a rigid list of foods you can and can't eat, but to be informed about what different foods do to your body and make the choices you want to and need to to live a happy and healthy life. Is sugar going to play a big role in that? Probably not; it DOES have a lot of drawbacks and not too many good points, but that doesn't mean it can't be a part of your life if that's what you want.
Really? A low-carb, paleo/primal propaganda site?
Propaganda, really? Is that what we call personal opinions based on scientific studies. Also, yes, they're blog posts, but did you notice the part where I specifically stated that there are usually links directly within the blog to the science it's based on? Are textbooks now propaganda simply because they are a bringing together of information in one easy to access place? At least read things before you start making unintelligent criticism.
I have. I've read many of his blogs and an entire one of his books. The guy is an idiot.
I've read all his books, used to spend all my free time his site and followed his plan for several months-I agree with you that he's a quack
He's no different than all the others out there pushing their man made, processed supplements while promoting them as 'clean' and 'natural.' The guy's selling stuff that people don't need while promoting a diet that's based on utter silliness. I regret I fell for it, because I ended up having nasty and embarrassing side effects eating primal/paleo. Live and learn!
I'm curious what negative side effects you had following a Primal lifestyle; I have to admit I've never heard of someone following that way of living having bad effects other than maybe an initial carb flu.
I will say I generally agree that powders and shakes and stuff aren't the best choices, and that a truly clean diet wouldn't include them, but I don't discount the lifestyle because of it. Take what works and leave the rest I say.
You asked lol-started having really bad gas that didn't smell 'normal'-had a sick smell to it. Then the bad breath and body odor started. My husband described it as similar to the smell that you get when a mouse sits in a trap for a while and starts to rot. Got to the point where people started commenting, wondering where it was coming from. I was mortified to realize it was me. I also started sleeping poorly and began feeling run down all the time. I did mostly paleo, with a few ounces of local, grass fed cheese a week. I really did think this was the optimal way to eat going into it, because I had spent so much time reading all the books (think I've read every book there is out there about this way of eating), hanging out on MDA etc etc. But, I finally had to listen to the signals my body was screaming at me and after several months quit.0 -
Considering it would make the krebs cycle impossible and mitochondria in your trillions of cells into a big waste of space, yeah I suspect it might have a slight impact...If sugar were magically made into an impossible molecule and there was no more sugar ever in the world, would there be any impact to the health and/or weight of human beings? I don't know, but I suspect there might be.0 -
In to find later. Sort of OT: sugar gliders!
OMG that's pure cuteness right there0 -
Considering it would make the krebs cycle impossible and mitochondria in your trillions of cells into a big waste of space, yeah I suspect it might have a slight impact...If sugar were magically made into an impossible molecule and there was no more sugar ever in the world, would there be any impact to the health and/or weight of human beings? I don't know, but I suspect there might be.
Maybe that's when we switch to silicone utilization!!! We could live on the moon.0 -
in...for the science that says fruit sugar is better than "added sugar"0
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If you had "nasty and embarrassing side effects eating primal/paleo"...
...you were doing it wrong.
Lots of people do it by the book and end up with unpleasant side effects.
Nasty and unpleasant side effects from eating lots of veggies and responsibly-raised meat?
Enlighten me...what kind of side effects? (I hope it's a grain-deficiency side effect, because that's the only thing that would fit the parameters.)0 -
Mark's usually pretty good about linking to the studies he's referring to if you want to look at the actual science...
Please. Mr. Primal is about as good at "science" as Mr. Taubes.
The guy peddles "Primal" supplements(!) - that's all anybody needs to know about him. The forums on that site of his are filled with more diet idiocy than I thought the internet could contain at one time.
Writing a blog is not science. And neither is linking to a carefully selected subset of studies.
easy now...everyone knows blogs are peer reviewed scientific studies...I believe they are on par with the American Journal of Medicine...0 -
Mark's usually pretty good about linking to the studies he's referring to if you want to look at the actual science...
Please. Mr. Primal is about as good at "science" as Mr. Taubes.
The guy peddles "Primal" supplements(!) - that's all anybody needs to know about him. The forums on that site of his are filled with more diet idiocy than I thought the internet could contain at one time.
Writing a blog is not science. And neither is linking to a carefully selected subset of studies.
easy now...everyone knows blogs are peer reviewed scientific studies...I believe they are on par with the American Journal of Medicine...
:laugh: cant get published blog it0 -
Saw it coming a mile away...........blog posts passed as sciencehttp://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-sugar/#axzz2i6sECFfm
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/#axzz2i6sECFfm
Here are two articles that help explain why sugar isn't all that healthy for us. Mark's usually pretty good about linking to the studies he's referring to if you want to look at the actual science; he's just put it all together into one convenient place.
I do agree that it's wrong to demonize any food or say it's something you can never eat; I think the point of life isn't to live by a rigid list of foods you can and can't eat, but to be informed about what different foods do to your body and make the choices you want to and need to to live a happy and healthy life. Is sugar going to play a big role in that? Probably not; it DOES have a lot of drawbacks and not too many good points, but that doesn't mean it can't be a part of your life if that's what you want.
Really? A low-carb, paleo/primal propaganda site?
Propaganda, really? Is that what we call personal opinions based on scientific studies. Also, yes, they're blog posts, but did you notice the part where I specifically stated that there are usually links directly within the blog to the science it's based on? Are textbooks now propaganda simply because they are a bringing together of information in one easy to access place? At least read things before you start making unintelligent criticism.
I have. I've read many of his blogs and an entire one of his books. The guy is an idiot.
I've read all his books, used to spend all my free time his site and followed his plan for several months-I agree with you that he's a quack He's no different than all the others out there pushing their man made, processed supplements while promoting them as 'clean' and 'natural.' The guy's selling stuff that people don't need while promoting a diet that's based on utter silliness. I regret I fell for it, because I ended up having nasty and embarrassing side effects eating primal/paleo. Live and learn!
I'm curious what negative side effects you had following a Primal lifestyle; I have to admit I've never heard of someone following that way of living having bad effects other than maybe an initial carb flu.
I will say I generally agree that powders and shakes and stuff aren't the best choices, and that a truly clean diet wouldn't include them, but I don't discount the lifestyle because of it. Take what works and leave the rest I say.
You asked lol-started having really bad gas that didn't smell 'normal'-had a sick smell to it. Then the bad breath and body odor started. My husband described it as similar to the smell that you get when a mouse sits in a trap for a while and starts to rot. Got to the point where people started commenting, wondering where it was coming from. I was mortified to realize it was me. I also started sleeping poorly and began feeling run down all the time. I did mostly paleo, with a few ounces of local, grass fed cheese a week. I really did think this was the optimal way to eat going into it, because I had spent so much time reading all the books (think I've read every book there is out there about this way of eating), hanging out on MDA etc etc. But, I finally had to listen to the signals my body was screaming at me and after several months quit.
Sounds like your carbs were too low...
...so you blame the "diet".
This is a deficiency in your implementation of the plan, not the plan itself.
Much like when people make sugar the scapegoat for the consequences of their bad diets.0 -
Saw it coming a mile away...........blog posts passed as sciencehttp://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-sugar/#axzz2i6sECFfm
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/#axzz2i6sECFfm
Here are two articles that help explain why sugar isn't all that healthy for us. Mark's usually pretty good about linking to the studies he's referring to if you want to look at the actual science; he's just put it all together into one convenient place.
I do agree that it's wrong to demonize any food or say it's something you can never eat; I think the point of life isn't to live by a rigid list of foods you can and can't eat, but to be informed about what different foods do to your body and make the choices you want to and need to to live a happy and healthy life. Is sugar going to play a big role in that? Probably not; it DOES have a lot of drawbacks and not too many good points, but that doesn't mean it can't be a part of your life if that's what you want.
Really? A low-carb, paleo/primal propaganda site?
Propaganda, really? Is that what we call personal opinions based on scientific studies. Also, yes, they're blog posts, but did you notice the part where I specifically stated that there are usually links directly within the blog to the science it's based on? Are textbooks now propaganda simply because they are a bringing together of information in one easy to access place? At least read things before you start making unintelligent criticism.
I have. I've read many of his blogs and an entire one of his books. The guy is an idiot.
I've read all his books, used to spend all my free time his site and followed his plan for several months-I agree with you that he's a quack He's no different than all the others out there pushing their man made, processed supplements while promoting them as 'clean' and 'natural.' The guy's selling stuff that people don't need while promoting a diet that's based on utter silliness. I regret I fell for it, because I ended up having nasty and embarrassing side effects eating primal/paleo. Live and learn!
I'm curious what negative side effects you had following a Primal lifestyle; I have to admit I've never heard of someone following that way of living having bad effects other than maybe an initial carb flu.
I will say I generally agree that powders and shakes and stuff aren't the best choices, and that a truly clean diet wouldn't include them, but I don't discount the lifestyle because of it. Take what works and leave the rest I say.
You asked lol-started having really bad gas that didn't smell 'normal'-had a sick smell to it. Then the bad breath and body odor started. My husband described it as similar to the smell that you get when a mouse sits in a trap for a while and starts to rot. Got to the point where people started commenting, wondering where it was coming from. I was mortified to realize it was me. I also started sleeping poorly and began feeling run down all the time. I did mostly paleo, with a few ounces of local, grass fed cheese a week. I really did think this was the optimal way to eat going into it, because I had spent so much time reading all the books (think I've read every book there is out there about this way of eating), hanging out on MDA etc etc. But, I finally had to listen to the signals my body was screaming at me and after several months quit.
Sounds like your carbs were too low...
...so you blame the "diet".
This is a deficiency in your implementation of the plan, not the plan itself.
Much like when people make sugar the scapegoat for the consequences of their bad diets.
My carbs were between 100-125 a day, which is what Mark recommends for those who are not trying to lose weight (which I wasn't). So, no.0 -
Sisson specifically calls for carb intakes as low as 50-100g as being the "correct" carb intake for those losing weight.0
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Saw it coming a mile away...........blog posts passed as sciencehttp://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-sugar/#axzz2i6sECFfm
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/#axzz2i6sECFfm
Here are two articles that help explain why sugar isn't all that healthy for us. Mark's usually pretty good about linking to the studies he's referring to if you want to look at the actual science; he's just put it all together into one convenient place.
I do agree that it's wrong to demonize any food or say it's something you can never eat; I think the point of life isn't to live by a rigid list of foods you can and can't eat, but to be informed about what different foods do to your body and make the choices you want to and need to to live a happy and healthy life. Is sugar going to play a big role in that? Probably not; it DOES have a lot of drawbacks and not too many good points, but that doesn't mean it can't be a part of your life if that's what you want.
Really? A low-carb, paleo/primal propaganda site?
Propaganda, really? Is that what we call personal opinions based on scientific studies. Also, yes, they're blog posts, but did you notice the part where I specifically stated that there are usually links directly within the blog to the science it's based on? Are textbooks now propaganda simply because they are a bringing together of information in one easy to access place? At least read things before you start making unintelligent criticism.
I have. I've read many of his blogs and an entire one of his books. The guy is an idiot.
I've read all his books, used to spend all my free time his site and followed his plan for several months-I agree with you that he's a quack He's no different than all the others out there pushing their man made, processed supplements while promoting them as 'clean' and 'natural.' The guy's selling stuff that people don't need while promoting a diet that's based on utter silliness. I regret I fell for it, because I ended up having nasty and embarrassing side effects eating primal/paleo. Live and learn!
I'm curious what negative side effects you had following a Primal lifestyle; I have to admit I've never heard of someone following that way of living having bad effects other than maybe an initial carb flu.
I will say I generally agree that powders and shakes and stuff aren't the best choices, and that a truly clean diet wouldn't include them, but I don't discount the lifestyle because of it. Take what works and leave the rest I say.
You asked lol-started having really bad gas that didn't smell 'normal'-had a sick smell to it. Then the bad breath and body odor started. My husband described it as similar to the smell that you get when a mouse sits in a trap for a while and starts to rot. Got to the point where people started commenting, wondering where it was coming from. I was mortified to realize it was me. I also started sleeping poorly and began feeling run down all the time. I did mostly paleo, with a few ounces of local, grass fed cheese a week. I really did think this was the optimal way to eat going into it, because I had spent so much time reading all the books (think I've read every book there is out there about this way of eating), hanging out on MDA etc etc. But, I finally had to listen to the signals my body was screaming at me and after several months quit.
Sounds like your carbs were too low...
...so you blame the "diet".
This is a deficiency in your implementation of the plan, not the plan itself.
Much like when people make sugar the scapegoat for the consequences of their bad diets.
My carbs were between 100-125 a day, which is what Mark recommends for those who are not trying to lose weight (which I wasn't). So, no.
Sounds *to me, based on your description of your symptoms* like your carbs were too low...
...regardless of what Mark says. This sounds like common low-carb/beginning ketosis *to me*.
What do *you* think caused your side effects? What are you doing differently now that eliminated them?0 -
(Sorry, magerum, for derailing your awesome thread. I'm just astounded that people would rally to support your position that sugar shouldn't be demonized/made a scapegoat...and then do the same thing to something like the "primal" approach to eating. Sure, argue the sustainability of it as being too restrictive for some people...but to argue side effects? That isn't bad protocol; that's bad implementation.)0
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http://onlinestatbook.com/2/case_studies/sugar.html
I'm sure somebody is gonna be all "Your online statistics study aide is WRONG, MAN!" But here is a graph of human consumption of sugar, in pounds per year, from the early 1800's to present day.
I like to keep in mind that my digestive system is pretty much identical to a digestive system makin' poops in the 1820's.
Physiologically, it may be possible that putting more and more and more and more of something in (be it alcohol, sugar, fat, protein, or water) starts to throw a few wrenches into the system.0 -
[graphaboutpirates.gif]0
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http://onlinestatbook.com/2/case_studies/sugar.html
I'm sure somebody is gonna be all "Your online statistics study aide is WRONG, MAN!" But here is a graph of human consumption of sugar, in pounds per year, from the early 1800's to present day.
I like to keep in mind that my digestive system is pretty much identical to a digestive system makin' poops in the 1820's.
Physiologically, it may be possible that putting more and more and more and more of something in (be it alcohol, sugar, fat, protein, or water) starts to throw a few wrenches into the system.
yeah! Its just like the link between climate and pirates that no one believes me about! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE
Also, Mag, keep bein' awesome.0 -
[graphaboutpirates.gif]
damn it, jof!0 -
http://onlinestatbook.com/2/case_studies/sugar.html
I'm sure somebody is gonna be all "Your online statistics study aide is WRONG, MAN!" But here is a graph of human consumption of sugar, in pounds per year, from the early 1800's to present day.
I like to keep in mind that my digestive system is pretty much identical to a digestive system makin' poops in the 1820's.
Physiologically, it may be possible that putting more and more and more and more of something in (be it alcohol, sugar, fat, protein, or water) starts to throw a few wrenches into the system.
yeah! Its just like the link between climate and pirates that no one believes me about! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE
Also, Mag, keep bein' awesome.
Called it.0 -
http://onlinestatbook.com/2/case_studies/sugar.html
I'm sure somebody is gonna be all "Your online statistics study aide is WRONG, MAN!" But here is a graph of human consumption of sugar, in pounds per year, from the early 1800's to present day.
I like to keep in mind that my digestive system is pretty much identical to a digestive system makin' poops in the 1820's.
Physiologically, it may be possible that putting more and more and more and more of something in (be it alcohol, sugar, fat, protein, or water) starts to throw a few wrenches into the system.
yeah! Its just like the link between climate and pirates that no one believes me about! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE
Also, Mag, keep bein' awesome.
Called it.
PS your graph has no link to cool grad-level study guides. Get that and I'll give you a gold star.0 -
That's almost as relevant as this one:
0 -
That's almost as relevant as this one:
I'm not sure I'm convinced that your graph of organic food sales' correlation to autism is relevant to the discussion of sugar consumption. I am, however, pretty convinced that a graph of US sugar consumption over time is relevant to the discussion.0 -
That's almost as relevant as this one:
I'm not sure I'm convinced that your graph of organic food sales' correlation to autism is relevant to the discussion of sugar consumption. I am, however, pretty convinced that a graph of US sugar consumption over time is relevant to the discussion.
And now I am convinced that you cannot tell the difference between correlation and causation :flowerforyou:0 -
That's almost as relevant as this one:
I'm not sure I'm convinced that your graph of organic food sales' correlation to autism is relevant to the discussion of sugar consumption. I am, however, pretty convinced that a graph of US sugar consumption over time is relevant to the discussion.
The relevance is a faulty interpretation of causation from correlation.
Meanwhile, please stop eating Mexico lemons and save a life...
Edit: because (graph) size matters.0 -
And as far as graduate-level research, here an article by the leading expert in paleopiracy
http://www.scq.ubc.ca/piracy-as-a-preventor-of-tropical-cyclones/0 -
The evidence is clear: No foods are inherently bad.
People with insulin resistance and diabetes may have different experiences. When you've met people with feet missing, eyes that don't work anymore and serious heart problems it does indeed appear that some foods can be bad for you.
But active young healthy people with good insulin sensitivity will probably fit your model.
I see what you're trying to do there, but if properly managed in both of those cases the same model fits. Again, personal responsibility. I know many type-1 and type-2 diabetics that properly manage their conditions and as a result, can eat what they choose.
If they've lost feet, or functions of other organs they have not managed their conditions properly or responsibly. My closest friend has been type-1 for 33 years, the pinnacle of health & he enjoys any and all foods. A very well known, here, type-2 diabetic has managed to lose over 300 lbs while eating what he wants, are two prime examples. As some anecdotal evidence.
<Raises hand!!> I think I know who the well known person is on here your referring too!! ;-)0
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