PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

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Replies

  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong.

    I don't believe this is true. What nutrition scientists think legumes are unhealthy?

    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them myself since I've got other things to do right now but if you're genuinely interested, take a few minutes to look it up. Doesn't take long.

    In my opinion, until something has been conclusively proven one way or the other, you can't say it's right OR wrong because no one knows for sure.

    If a subject has been studied, there will be conflicting results. This is true of anything that has been thoroughly studies. This back and forth is the way studies work. But it does not necessarily mean that the conculusions are unclear. One must look at all the data on any subject to form a clear picture. Pickiing one or two studies and throwing out the rest is not science.

    No one said anything about using only one or two studies. I agree if you look at every study on a subject there will have been conflicting result, but if a clear conclusion has been drawn and is currently agreed upon as being right then I would say it's no longer really in debate. There's "science" (as it existed at the time) on the world being flat, but we now agree it's round, for example. Nutrition is obviously harder because most foods have good and bad to them, but sometimes those traits can be agreed upon pretty conclusively. The problem with most of the Paleo beliefs is that there is no such generally agreed upon conclusion that amounts to being able to say something has been scientifically proven one way OR the other. I 100% agree that it's not been conclusively proven that grains/legumes/etc. are unhealthy; I just don't believe it's been 100% conclusively proven that they aren't unhealthy either.

    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

    When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

    I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

    When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

    I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

    TL;DR - there really aren't any.
  • DatMurse
    DatMurse Posts: 1,501 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

    When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

    I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

    We cannot find any studies because they arent legitimate.

    So please leave.
    If you cannot enter an educated debate dont try to get into one
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

    When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

    I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

    We cannot find any studies because they arent legitimate.

    So please leave.
    If you cannot enter an educated debate dont try to get into one

    So because you haven't seen one, it somehow makes my ability to discuss things in an educated manner non-existent? I think you've got things confused there.

    I AM having an intelligent debate; I've already stated my reasons for not throwing out the studies are because I have other things I need to do with my time besides fishing up studies for other people. If you really wanted to see them you'd go looking; if you have and haven't found them then I guess I was just looking in different places, but I don't remember it being all that hard since I'm pretty sure I was just using Google and that's not even the most effective manner of researching the topic (Pub Med's usually a good spot for studies).

    Insulting people by implying they're uneducated or incapable of educated debate is both rude, unnecessary and completely off topic, not to mention constitutes a straw man argument. And not that I need to justify myself, but I hold an honours degree from one of the top universities in the world, and am getting a JD from the top law school in the country; you could say that debating and making arguments is literally my job at the moment.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    You keep posting but keep failing to provide the evidence you swear exists.

    If this is your job then god help your clients. "Trust me, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! I don't have time to show any evidence but I'm definitely right."
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Also, zero pounds lost in 2.5 years. Just sayin.
  • Sarah_Likes_Cookies
    Sarah_Likes_Cookies Posts: 26
    PROS:

    It can work well and quickly for weight loss
    No need for the hassle of calorie counting
    Can help regularise cravings
    Can help with digestive discomfort

    CONS:

    Restrictive food choice
    Lack of cake
    Can be expensive
    Can be hard to implement into day to day life
    Did I mention lack of cake?





    EAT ALL THE FOODS! I love this =]
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
    Also, zero pounds lost in 2.5 years. Just sayin.

    Also, stopped using MFP to track weight loss and food intake years ago. Just saying.

    AND....hey look, another straw man argument! Wow, and you guys say I don't know how to argue. You're making one the most basic logical failures that exists in argument.
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
    You keep posting but keep failing to provide the evidence you swear exists.

    If this is your job then god help your clients. "Trust me, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! I don't have time to show any evidence but I'm definitely right."

    Good thing this forum isn't my job then right? How about this - you keep insisting these studies don't exist; how about instead of putting the burden of proof on me to prove that they do exist, YOU take on that burden of proof and prove they don't.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    You keep posting but keep failing to provide the evidence you swear exists.

    If this is your job then god help your clients. "Trust me, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! I don't have time to show any evidence but I'm definitely right."

    Good thing this forum isn't my job then right? How about this - you keep insisting these studies don't exist; how about instead of putting the burden of proof on me to prove that they do exist, YOU take on that burden of proof and prove they don't.

    I did. Couldn't find any. Help?
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Also, zero pounds lost in 2.5 years. Just sayin.

    Also, stopped using MFP to track weight loss and food intake years ago. Just saying.

    AND....hey look, another straw man argument! Wow, and you guys say I don't know how to argue. You're making one the most basic logical failures that exists in argument.

    Well you are the one telling us how awesome and effective and healthy and sustainable your diet of choice is, while simultaneously telling us you've been on this site for over two years and have lost 0 lbs of your 75 lb goal. That's not irrelevant. The people you're arguing with have a history of success.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
    You keep posting but keep failing to provide the evidence you swear exists.

    If this is your job then god help your clients. "Trust me, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! I don't have time to show any evidence but I'm definitely right."

    Good thing this forum isn't my job then right? How about this - you keep insisting these studies don't exist; how about instead of putting the burden of proof on me to prove that they do exist, YOU take on that burden of proof and prove they don't.

    Lulz. There's studies. Where? I dunno, prove they don't exist! Rawr internets.
  • Pariri
    Pariri Posts: 1
    Yeh, no cake but the lack of choice makes eating easier in some ways.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You have time to make 800 posts a day not this topic, but you don't have time to provide the requested scientific references?

    Okee-doke...
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    There's "science" (as it existed at the time) on the world being flat, but we now agree it's round, for example.

    That's not actually true. There never was any "science" on the earth being flat, what "science" there was always pointed toward a curvature of the earth's surface. That's going back at least 3000-4000 years.
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
    Also, zero pounds lost in 2.5 years. Just sayin.

    Also, stopped using MFP to track weight loss and food intake years ago. Just saying.

    AND....hey look, another straw man argument! Wow, and you guys say I don't know how to argue. You're making one the most basic logical failures that exists in argument.

    Well you are the one telling us how awesome and effective and healthy and sustainable your diet of choice is, while simultaneously telling us you've been on this site for over two years and have lost 0 lbs of your 75 lb goal. That's not irrelevant. The people you're arguing with have a history of success.

    When have I ever said how awesome and effective and healthy and sustainable my lifestyle choice is? I've probably said a few times that it's sustainable for some people because sustainability is relative to each person, but that's about it. I do personally believe it's awesome and effective and healthy but that's my belief, not a fact, nor something I've ever said. I've also never said I've been on this site for over two years and have lost no weight; my VERY old profile says that but that's because I've stopped using it and just came back to the forums recently because when I first joined I found them friendly and useful. Not so much anymore.

    Maybe you do have a history of success and I'm happy for you; you don't seem to give a crap that a lot of people have a history of success on the same basic plan I follow so what does that really matter? I've given no personal anecdotes of any kind about my experience with this lifestyle so you shouldn't be calling something into question when it's never been put forward as evidence to begin with.
  • LvLite
    LvLite Posts: 102 Member
    Pro: Helps you learn how to cook again and use real foods.
    Con: Helps you learn how to cook again and use real foods

    :) I don't know if I am "Clean Eating" or "Paleo" I use a lot of paleo and raw recipes as they are delicious. I am supposed to have 1/2 cup of whole grain cereal a day, but it makes me crave more and more so taking it back out again (seriously I love bread, but my body does not). It makes me sick, bloated, sluggish and sooo hungry. It'll take about 4 days for the crazy cravings to go away.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Nope. No time to put up the studies but time to make a million post that ramble on and on and on..... with her opinions. :yawn:
  • Barbellgirl
    Barbellgirl Posts: 544 Member
    Well I don't know about you all but if I get stranded on an island some time you can bet I'm going to follow the birds to those legumes so I can soak them for several hours or overnight to TRY to get rid of as much of those lectins (plant toxins) as I possibly can then boil them for hours, then rinse them and boil them some more in the hopes I can make them edible and they won't rip up my intestines with gas too bad! Oh wait, nope, I think I'll just go for some eggs or meat or vegetables instead! :happy: :laugh:
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Well I don't know about you all but if I get stranded on an island some time you can bet I'm going to follow the birds to those legumes so I can soak them for several hours or overnight to TRY to get rid of as much of those lectins (plant toxins) as I possibly can then boil them for hours, then rinse them and boil them some more in the hopes I can make them edible and they won't rip up my intestines with gas too bad! Oh wait, nope, I think I'll just go for some eggs or meat or vegetables instead! :happy: :laugh:

    Let me know how it goes trying to make some almond flour muffins too.
  • Barbellgirl
    Barbellgirl Posts: 544 Member
    Well I don't know about you all but if I get stranded on an island some time you can bet I'm going to follow the birds to those legumes so I can soak them for several hours or overnight to TRY to get rid of as much of those lectins (plant toxins) as I possibly can then boil them for hours, then rinse them and boil them some more in the hopes I can make them edible and they won't rip up my intestines with gas too bad! Oh wait, nope, I think I'll just go for some eggs or meat or vegetables instead! :happy: :laugh:

    Let me know how it goes trying to make some almond flour muffins too.

    I'm sure I can grind almonds into flour and make muffins quicker than you can make most legumes edible. :drinker:
  • aimforhealthy
    aimforhealthy Posts: 449 Member
    Any diet that has a name is silly.

    Any diet that strictly prohibits certain foods is silly.

    Any diet that does both of these is double-silly.

    By all means focus your diet on lean meats and veggies. But don't listen to what other people tell you are acceptable foods and unacceptable foods. Focus on your nutrients and eat things you enjoy.

    This.

    I happen to love meat, eggs and veggies and am not so big on grains and dairy so I LOVE my paleo cookbooks! I make at least one "paleo" dish every day because I just really like to eat that way. But sometimes I have cake or bagels or whatever. I still lose about a pound a week.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    Oh wait, nope, I think I'll just go for some eggs or meat or vegetables instead!

    Where are you going to get vegetables and eggs in the wild?

    How are you going to catch meat that's larger than a grasshopper?
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Oh wait, nope, I think I'll just go for some eggs or meat or vegetables instead!

    Where are you going to get vegetables and eggs in the wild?

    How are you going to catch meat that's larger than a grasshopper?

    Huh?
  • Debbie_Ferr
    Debbie_Ferr Posts: 582 Member
    Any diet that has a name is silly.

    Any diet that strictly prohibits certain foods is silly.

    Any diet that does both of these is double-silly.

    By all means focus your diet on lean meats and veggies. But don't listen to what other people tell you are acceptable foods and unacceptable foods. Focus on your nutrients and eat things you enjoy.

    THIS X2

    Paleo is a silly silly name !!
    Per http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/06/03/even-our-ancestors-never-really-ate-the-paleo-diet/#.UmiOWVNc8kg
    Even Our Ancestors Never Really Ate the “Paleo Diet”

    "Per carbon bone analysis, grasses and grains have been part of the human diet for MILLIONS of years."

    btw ~ many many many fruits and vegetables were NON-existant 500 to 5000 years ago.
  • DatMurse
    DatMurse Posts: 1,501 Member
    The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

    I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

    I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.
    It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

    :laugh:

    Did anyone expect anything different?

    Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

    You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

    When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

    I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

    We cannot find any studies because they arent legitimate.

    So please leave.
    If you cannot enter an educated debate dont try to get into one

    So because you haven't seen one, it somehow makes my ability to discuss things in an educated manner non-existent? I think you've got things confused there.

    I AM having an intelligent debate; I've already stated my reasons for not throwing out the studies are because I have other things I need to do with my time besides fishing up studies for other people. If you really wanted to see them you'd go looking; if you have and haven't found them then I guess I was just looking in different places, but I don't remember it being all that hard since I'm pretty sure I was just using Google and that's not even the most effective manner of researching the topic (Pub Med's usually a good spot for studies).

    Insulting people by implying they're uneducated or incapable of educated debate is both rude, unnecessary and completely off topic, not to mention constitutes a straw man argument. And not that I need to justify myself, but I hold an honours degree from one of the top universities in the world, and am getting a JD from the top law school in the country; you could say that debating and making arguments is literally my job at the moment.

    All Im reading is "I dont have a study"

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