PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

MityMax96

And also
I guess it would be margarine, not butter
I always forget there is a difference between those two....


So margarine,
Yes or no?

Depends on how you define margarine. Traditionally margarine was made primarily of partially hydrogenated oils and thus contained mostly trans fats. However, the vast majority of products sold as "margarine" or "spread" these days contain little to no trans fat.

Ok....
I don't know...
I don't use either that much really....
Just curious.

I will occasionally add some KerryGold butter to my coffee.....but that is not that often.

SnicciFit

Eat what you enjoy. That's the whole point of all this! Eat what you like, and don't avoid foods you like because they're "not paleo" or "not clean" or whatever.

Avoiding foods because some fad diet with a cute name says they're bad is a terrible idea.

It always bothers me when people say "eat whatever you like" or "eat what you want". It so subjective without knowing what one likes or wants.

While I do agree that one should enjoy their meals, there is a certain balance that is optimal for health. And there is a certain imbalance that is greatly increases risk of disease.

Yes, and the balance is determined by nutrient content. Hence the phrase "if it fits your macros."

To achieve the right balance, focus on nutrients not labels.

I honestly don't know much about IIFYM, but I assume that you set a calorie goal and macro percentage goals and go from there. My question is, what about micro-nutrients? What about things like your Omega 3:6 ratio? What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Are all of these considered?

You can track and plan any or all of those things. I personally don't think tracking most micronutrients is much to worry about. If you're hitting your macros and getting a few servings of fruits and veggies every day then I think you're doing fine. Focus on a micronutrient if you actually demonstrate a deficiency in that nutrient.

The entire point of IIFYM as an eating philosophy is that it's the nutrients that matter, so pay attention to the nutrients that matter to you (or that you believe matter to you). If you're particularly concerned about vitamin D or omega 3:6 ratio, then it makes sense to pay attention to those things directly instead of adopting some restrictive diet that, by proxy, may help manage those things.

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

Side note: IIFYM sounds a lot like what the majority of people who call themselves "paleo" (myself included) do. We've just decided what we do and don't eat based on self-education of what does/does not make us feel our best. Sometimes we even eat those things we know don't make us feel the best (gasp!), but we typically are thoughtful about weather it's worth it or not (ie. in a social situation or a food we particularly love). I would venture to guess that while some of us may have started out eating only foods that we thought a caveman would eat, most of us don't actually believe that we are eating like cave people. Just eating the best possible way for our physical and mental health.

*edited for spelling

jonnythan

unless you are buying organic, nitrate and nitrite free bacon,

Interesting note about that. Pretty much all the "nitrate free" bacon isn't. The package will say "no added nitrates" or something similar.

In reality that bacon has as much nitrite and nitrate as any other bacon. They just use "celery salt."

Celery salt is made primarily of sodium nitrate.

jonnythan

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

SnicciFit

And also
I guess it would be margarine, not butter
I always forget there is a difference between those two....


So margarine,
Yes or no?

no. (or very limited). In other words, I keep butter in my house, but wouldn't refuse to eat a friend's house because they used margarine.

polarduke

Any diet that recommends REAL food only should not be classed with any eating plan that allows franken-foods...

MityMax96

Side note: IIFYM sounds a lot like what the majority of people who call themselves "paleo" (myself included) do. We've just decided what we do and don't eat based on self-education of what does/does not make us feel our best. .......... Just eating the best possible way for our physical and mental health.

*edited for spelling

Exactly.....

That is the point of any diet really.
And what most have been saying in this thread.

SnicciFit

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

darkangel45422

Side note: IIFYM sounds a lot like what the majority of people who call themselves "paleo" (myself included) do. We've just decided what we do and don't eat based on self-education of what does/does not make us feel our best. .......... Just eating the best possible way for our physical and mental health.

*edited for spelling

Exactly.....

That is the point of any diet really.
And what most have been saying in this thread.

Yes, but most people who have been saying it on this thread are implying that this way of eating is somehow mutually exclusive from how Paleo eats. In truth, while we don't necessarily track our macros or calories, we are essentially just eating foods we think that will increase our health. It just so happens we don't think that grains/processed foods/etc. will help us do that by being staples of our diet.

jonnythan

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

ThriceBlessed

unless you are buying organic, nitrate and nitrite free bacon,

Interesting note about that. Pretty much all the "nitrate free" bacon isn't. The package will say "no added nitrates" or something similar.

In reality that bacon has as much nitrite and nitrate as any other bacon. They just use "celery salt."

Celery salt is made primarily of sodium nitrate.

It is hard to find... but there is some out there. I don't worry about it myself, I eat bacon maybe once or twice a year, so its not really a concern for me, personally.

SnicciFit

So... what I'm saying is, that just because someone says they "eat paleo" does not automatically make them an idiot who blindly follows along with some plan to only eat foods that could be found in cave kitchens. For the most part, it means they have considered a whole lot of what goes into nutrition (more than just calories or macros), self-experimented and continue to educate themselves daily while enjoying a variety of enjoyable foods.

msf74

Side note: IIFYM sounds a lot like what the majority of people who call themselves "paleo" (myself included) do. We've just decided what we do and don't eat based on self-education of what does/does not make us feel our best. .......... Just eating the best possible way for our physical and mental health.

*edited for spelling

Exactly.....

That is the point of any diet really.
And what most have been saying in this thread.

Pretty much.

Most people who successfully regulate their weight roughly end up in the same position over the long term. They simply approach it from different directions.

Most people are also moderate, seek balance and reject fundamentalism.

itsCheek

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Agreed. I lost 25 pounds in less than 2 months with Paleo. No carbs, no sugars, no dairy...lots of meat, eggs, and nuts. Be prepared to do a LOT of cooking and prep everyday.

jonnythan

So... what I'm saying is, that just because someone says they "eat paleo" does not automatically make them an idiot who blindly follows along with some plan to only eat foods that could be found in cave kitchens. For the most part, it means they have considered a whole lot of what goes into nutrition (more than just calories or macros), self-experimented and continue to educate themselves daily while enjoying a variety of enjoyable foods.

The first part is certainly true. Just because someone says they eat paleo doesn't make them an idiot. I don't believe I ever said that it does.

Believe it or not, I try pretty hard not to criticize the actual dietary choices of others. What I often draw exception to is when people try to push their dietary restrictions on others for bogus reasons. If you want to eat paleo then fine, eat paleo. But don't try to tell other people never to eat black beans or potatoes again because those foods are inherently unhealthy.

I can't get on board with the second part. Reread your first part. Just because someone says they eat paleo doesn't mean they're an idiot; nor does it mean they're a very smart person who has carefully considered and studied multiple aspects of nutrition in depth and did a lot of experimenting.

SnicciFit

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

Great idea! I'm sure there are threads like that out there already, but they are probably (like this one) full of garbage arguments that I don't have time to read through.

jonnythan

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

Great idea! I'm sure there are threads like that out there already, but they are probably (like this one) full of garbage arguments that I don't have time to read through.

I don't think there's an IIFYM group, but there are a lot of people on the forum very knowledgeable about the practice. It's really simple though. Set nutrition goals that matter to YOU and hit them. Consider any aspects you feel are appropriate.

SnicciFit

So... what I'm saying is, that just because someone says they "eat paleo" does not automatically make them an idiot who blindly follows along with some plan to only eat foods that could be found in cave kitchens. For the most part, it means they have considered a whole lot of what goes into nutrition (more than just calories or macros), self-experimented and continue to educate themselves daily while enjoying a variety of enjoyable foods.

What I often draw exception to is when people try to push their dietary restrictions on others for bogus reasons. If you want to eat paleo then fine, eat paleo. But don't try to tell other people never to eat black beans or potatoes again because those foods are inherently unhealthy.

I assume that people interested in eating paleo are going research why things like black beans may not be part of a healthy eating plan and make a decision whether or not to eat them based on that. I certainly have never "pushed my dietary restrictions on others."

Just because someone says they eat paleo doesn't mean they're an idiot; nor does it mean they're a very smart person who has carefully considered and studied multiple aspects of nutrition in depth and did a lot of experimenting.

True, but you seem to assume that anyone eating paleo is doing it because they think it's what the caveman did. I'm sure some are, but probably not the majority.

SnicciFit

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

Great idea! I'm sure there are threads like that out there already, but they are probably (like this one) full of garbage arguments that I don't have time to read through.

I don't think there's an IIFYM group, but there are a lot of people on the forum very knowledgeable about the practice. It's really simple though. Set nutrition goals that matter to YOU and hit them. Consider any aspects you feel are appropriate.

So paleo is just IIFYM without the counting? :bigsmile:

jonnythan

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

Great idea! I'm sure there are threads like that out there already, but they are probably (like this one) full of garbage arguments that I don't have time to read through.

I don't think there's an IIFYM group, but there are a lot of people on the forum very knowledgeable about the practice. It's really simple though. Set nutrition goals that matter to YOU and hit them. Consider any aspects you feel are appropriate.

So paleo is just IIFYM without the counting? :bigsmile:

Paleo is compatible with IIFYM. They are not competing diets. You can do IIFYM and paleo at the same time.