PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

jonnythan

So because people share their food beliefs (their interpretations of scientific studies), these people are somehow doing something wrong?

Yes, if those "beliefs" are unjustified, fear-mongering, and wrong.

And who gets to determine that those beliefs are unjustified, fear-mongering, and wrong? You?

Most of the people I've seen sharing these beliefs, myself included, have justification for them - scientific studies. Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong. As for fear-mongering, since all that means is someone who spreads alarming news, I guess that depends on who receive the news - if it's alarming to you that those foods might not be healthy, then I guess it is fear-mongering, but what's the problem with it if it might be true?

Just because YOU believe something different doesn't make other beliefs wrong you know.

Please, show us these studies.

SnicciFit

So because people share their food beliefs (their interpretations of scientific studies), these people are somehow doing something wrong?

Yes, if those "beliefs" are unjustified, fear-mongering, and wrong.

I think it's more wrong to promote eating fast food, soda and sugar, but I see that around here all the time. Promoting foods that are attributed to developing type 2 diabetes, among other things, is unethical. And granted, the problem is more likely that people are delusional, not actively trying to hurt others. But just because you have gotten away with eating gobs of sugar and junk food for a certain number of years without developing diabetes or heart disease or whatever, or have been able to lose weight while still eating them, doesn't equal long term health. And there are some just genetically lucky people out there who can probably get away with it, but eating poorly for the long term and hoping you won the genetic lottery is just stupid.

So you think fast food hamburgers and ice cream cause diabetes? You have a lot to learn.

The food themselves don't cause diabetes. Poor lifestyle choices (including dietary) cause diabetes.

bcattoes

Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong.

I don't believe this is true. What nutrition scientists think legumes are unhealthy?

FredDoyle

I think the horse has long since been dead and beaten, but where on this thread did anyone "bash" healthy foods or say they were dangerous? IIRC, most people were talking about how they felt, weight they loss, and their own experiences. I must have missed people telling OP about the dangers of any foods. Maybe it has happened on other threads and the contrary posts were preemptive strikes?

I have been told that both grains (all grains, regardless if gluten free, except for paleo approved grains like quinoa) and legumes are "poison". Now granted, I believe both posts were by the same user, who does seem to be a bit of a paleo zealot.

Though many have told me that both are not healthy and I'd probably feel better if I didn't eat them. Grains will make my gut leak and beans are full of toxins. Stuff like that.

So because people share their food beliefs (their interpretations of scientific studies), these people are somehow doing something wrong? Is it bad on a site about health and weight loss to say that some scientific studies suggest or show that grains CAN cause leaky gut syndrome, and that beans DO either impair bioavailability unless properly prepared or contain toxins? You can choose to believe it or not, no one's forcing you to believe them or their evidence, but I fail to see how sharing information is somehow wrong. Many people DO believe grains/beans etc are not healthy and that many people feel better not eating them; there's evidence to support this (though yes, many people live perfectly healthy lives including these foods as staples too).

I'm not taking a stance in this particular post about whether or not those beliefs are true, just that I don't see what's wrong with sharing this information. Would you have an issue with them if they said that Twinkies weren't healthy?

"Leaky gut"?
Are you a Wakefield anti-vax proponent?
Your posts are becoming clearer to me...

Iron_Siren

if you already eat the types of food like this and can live the rest of your life on eating "paleo" foods. Go ahead, if you enjoy eating processed foods, then this diet isnt for you.


IS IT SUSTAINABLE FOR YOU? is the question you should ask yourself by joining any fad diet

totally this


IMO, there are no evil foods, thus it would never work for me personally. But if you don't eat. don't like, or have a reaction to the certain omitted foods on this plan, then go for it.

bcattoes

if you already eat the types of food like this and can live the rest of your life on eating "paleo" foods. Go ahead, if you enjoy eating processed foods, then this diet isnt for you.


IS IT SUSTAINABLE FOR YOU? is the question you should ask yourself by joining any fad diet

totally this


IMO, there are no evil foods, thus it would never work for me personally. But if you don't eat. don't like, or have a reaction to the certain omitted foods on this plan, then go for it.

Have you tried the Natural Cheetos? Those things ARE evil. Pure and powerful evil.

darkangel45422

Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong.

I don't believe this is true. What nutrition scientists think legumes are unhealthy?

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them myself since I've got other things to do right now but if you're genuinely interested, take a few minutes to look it up. Doesn't take long.

In my opinion, until something has been conclusively proven one way or the other, you can't say it's right OR wrong because no one knows for sure.

bcattoes

Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong.

I don't believe this is true. What nutrition scientists think legumes are unhealthy?

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them myself since I've got other things to do right now but if you're genuinely interested, take a few minutes to look it up. Doesn't take long.

In my opinion, until something has been conclusively proven one way or the other, you can't say it's right OR wrong because no one knows for sure.

If a subject has been studied, there will be conflicting results. This is true of anything that has been thoroughly studies. This back and forth is the way studies work. But it does not necessarily mean that the conculusions are unclear. One must look at all the data on any subject to form a clear picture. Pickiing one or two studies and throwing out the rest is not science.

darkangel45422

Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong.

I don't believe this is true. What nutrition scientists think legumes are unhealthy?

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them myself since I've got other things to do right now but if you're genuinely interested, take a few minutes to look it up. Doesn't take long.

In my opinion, until something has been conclusively proven one way or the other, you can't say it's right OR wrong because no one knows for sure.

If a subject has been studied, there will be conflicting results. This is true of anything that has been thoroughly studies. This back and forth is the way studies work. But it does not necessarily mean that the conculusions are unclear. One must look at all the data on any subject to form a clear picture. Pickiing one or two studies and throwing out the rest is not science.

No one said anything about using only one or two studies. I agree if you look at every study on a subject there will have been conflicting result, but if a clear conclusion has been drawn and is currently agreed upon as being right then I would say it's no longer really in debate. There's "science" (as it existed at the time) on the world being flat, but we now agree it's round, for example. Nutrition is obviously harder because most foods have good and bad to them, but sometimes those traits can be agreed upon pretty conclusively. The problem with most of the Paleo beliefs is that there is no such generally agreed upon conclusion that amounts to being able to say something has been scientifically proven one way OR the other. I 100% agree that it's not been conclusively proven that grains/legumes/etc. are unhealthy; I just don't believe it's been 100% conclusively proven that they aren't unhealthy either.

Iron_Siren

Have you tried the Natural Cheetos? Those things ARE evil. Pure and powerful evil.

Not yet, but if they make them in crunchy I'll suffer through!

bcattoes

Since the science is, admittedly, generally divided on most of these foods, you can't say either side is right OR wrong.

I don't believe this is true. What nutrition scientists think legumes are unhealthy?

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them myself since I've got other things to do right now but if you're genuinely interested, take a few minutes to look it up. Doesn't take long.

In my opinion, until something has been conclusively proven one way or the other, you can't say it's right OR wrong because no one knows for sure.

If a subject has been studied, there will be conflicting results. This is true of anything that has been thoroughly studies. This back and forth is the way studies work. But it does not necessarily mean that the conculusions are unclear. One must look at all the data on any subject to form a clear picture. Pickiing one or two studies and throwing out the rest is not science.

No one said anything about using only one or two studies. I agree if you look at every study on a subject there will have been conflicting result, but if a clear conclusion has been drawn and is currently agreed upon as being right then I would say it's no longer really in debate. There's "science" (as it existed at the time) on the world being flat, but we now agree it's round, for example. Nutrition is obviously harder because most foods have good and bad to them, but sometimes those traits can be agreed upon pretty conclusively. The problem with most of the Paleo beliefs is that there is no such generally agreed upon conclusion that amounts to being able to say something has been scientifically proven one way OR the other. I 100% agree that it's not been conclusively proven that grains/legumes/etc. are unhealthy; I just don't believe it's been 100% conclusively proven that they aren't unhealthy either.

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

jonnythan

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

darkangel45422

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

jonnythan

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

darkangel45422

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

jofjltncb6

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

TL;DR - there really aren't any.

DatMurse

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

We cannot find any studies because they arent legitimate.

So please leave.
If you cannot enter an educated debate dont try to get into one

darkangel45422

The bolded section is the part that I think is incorrect. I do not believe you'll find anyone in the field of nutrition that will say legumes are unhealthy (outside personal allergy or intollerance).

I doubt you'd find anyone to say that whole grains are not heatlhy, though you could probably find some that think gluten needs a closer look.

I've personally read multiple studies on the downsides of legumes AND grains, whole or not (actually, especially whole in some cases), and ones that had nothing to do with personal allergies or intolerances.

It is; there are studies about legumes and their downsides. I've neither the time nor inclination to go looking for them

:laugh:

Did anyone expect anything different?

Well forgive me if I'm not going to take time out of MY busy day to fetch YOU some information you're perfectly capable of getting for yourself. I'm not your secretary - you wanna see a study, you go find a study.

You've posted like a dozen times in this thread about how beans and grains are all automatically unhealthy, but god forbid you produce a single scientific journal article that convinced you of this.

When have I EVER said they're automatically unhealthy? I personally don't think they're the healthiest choices - I believe they have downsides, and that there are healthier choices for sources of protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals, etc. - but I've fully admitted multiple times on MFP that the science on grains and legumes is quite divided and that these are just my beliefs based on studies I've read. I've never once categorically stated anything was a fact.

I don't mind backing up my opinions with studies and facts while I'm at school writing academic papers, but since I spend all day and all night doing that I don't really feel the need to do it on an informal forum. If someone was actually interested in finding out the truth they'd look it up, same as I did.

We cannot find any studies because they arent legitimate.

So please leave.
If you cannot enter an educated debate dont try to get into one

So because you haven't seen one, it somehow makes my ability to discuss things in an educated manner non-existent? I think you've got things confused there.

I AM having an intelligent debate; I've already stated my reasons for not throwing out the studies are because I have other things I need to do with my time besides fishing up studies for other people. If you really wanted to see them you'd go looking; if you have and haven't found them then I guess I was just looking in different places, but I don't remember it being all that hard since I'm pretty sure I was just using Google and that's not even the most effective manner of researching the topic (Pub Med's usually a good spot for studies).

Insulting people by implying they're uneducated or incapable of educated debate is both rude, unnecessary and completely off topic, not to mention constitutes a straw man argument. And not that I need to justify myself, but I hold an honours degree from one of the top universities in the world, and am getting a JD from the top law school in the country; you could say that debating and making arguments is literally my job at the moment.

jonnythan

You keep posting but keep failing to provide the evidence you swear exists.

If this is your job then god help your clients. "Trust me, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! I don't have time to show any evidence but I'm definitely right."

jonnythan

Also, zero pounds lost in 2.5 years. Just sayin.