Relatively light people trying to get leaner
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more questions...
so, I eat healthy most days. A normal day is....Oatmeal/whole wheat english muffin with pb or hardboiled egg for b'fast-- almonds or fruit for snack -- sandwich or salad with fruit for lunch -- greek yogurt for snack -- grilled chicken for dinner/brown rice/ green beans. I am 41 :noway: 5'3" and 130 lbs (hoping to get back to 120). MFP says I should eat around 1250 calories plus exercise calories. How do you count weight lifting? Some days I can exercise 1000+ calories but don't feel like eating till the next day. Do I deprive myself? Very frustrated -- too much to take in -- there must be an easier way :bigsmile: .
Did I mention I'm an accountant -- and all this gray area does not work for me. I need someone to say -- do this....eat this....and you'll get the desired results. Not asking much....right?:blushing:0 -
Wow, tons of great posts and info here! I would count myself in this category; I'm about 7 pounds from my goal weight. That weight, however is just some mythical number that was my weight before and after both of my pregnancies. Being 41 now, the pounds are much harder to shed.
I really appreciated the info on women and water weight, etc. One morning I weighed myself at 165 and was very discouraged as that had me two pounds up from what I had been at my last weigh-in. The same afternoon I got back on (about 6 hours later) and was 162!! What the heck?? That taught me a lot and also reminded me to visit the scale much less frequently.
I'm definitely hung up on the number and need to shift my focus. Keep the great info coming; I'm taking it all in.... :bigsmile:0 -
more questions...
so, I eat healthy most days. A normal day is....Oatmeal/whole wheat english muffin with pb or hardboiled egg for b'fast-- almonds or fruit for snack -- sandwich or salad with fruit for lunch -- greek yogurt for snack -- grilled chicken for dinner/brown rice/ green beans. I am 41 :noway: 5'3" and 130 lbs (hoping to get back to 120). MFP says I should eat around 1250 calories plus exercise calories. How do you count weight lifting? Some days I can exercise 1000+ calories but don't feel like eating till the next day. Do I deprive myself? Very frustrated -- too much to take in -- there must be an easier way :bigsmile: .
Did I mention I'm an accountant -- and all this gray area does not work for me. I need someone to say -- do this....eat this....and you'll get the desired results. Not asking much....right?:blushing:
Haha, you're fun.
Unfortunately I'm not your guy. I don't give rigid guidelines to follow because in my experience.... it simply doesn't work well. People need to take the fundamentals and apply them in a customized way to themselves.
What are the fundamentals? Well to name a few....
1. Set calories according to your goal. A deficit for weight loss, equal for maintenance, and a surplus for weight gain
2. Set protein at approximately 1 gram per pound of goal body weight. There are 4 calories in each gram of protein.
3. Set fat at approximately 30% of total calories. There are 9 calories for each gram of fat.
4. Eat 4-6 servings of fibrous veggies per day. Calorie content of veggies varies depending on the type... but a ballpark might be 20-40 per serving.
5. Eat 2-4 servings of fruit per day. Like veggies, calorie content varies here. A ballpark might be 60 or so.
I don't use MFP for anything but the community and helping people. I'm not sure how all their calculators work. I can tell you this though... I'm not a fan of estimating calorie expenditure. It's something I've never done with my clients or myself. I take a much simpler route.
I pick a reasonable estimate of calorie maintenance assuming sane amounts of exercise. What's a sane amount of exercise? About an hour per day of moderate to above moderate activity. Weight lifting, cardio, etc. Maintenance works out to be roughly 14-16 calories per pound.
If you're very lean or very overweight... or if you feel you have a bit of a sluggish metabolism... you might need to adjust this starting point. In your case though, I'd go with 15 given your level of activity. Remember, this isn't a contract you're signing here so there's no need to make a big deal about it.
130 x 15 = 1950
From there, it's a matter of creating your deficit. I generally like a deficit of 30% or so. This would put you at about 1400 calories or so. If you were my client, that'd be your initial daily calorie target.
Then it'd be a matter of filling in those calories with the "right mixture" of nutrients.
On the protein front, 1 gram per pound of goal body weight would put you at 120 grams. 120 grams of protein equates to 480 calories, leaving you with 920 left to "fill."
Good sources of protein include chicken and turkey breast, fish, lean ground beef, lean cuts of steak, pork tenderloin, nuts, eggs, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, protein powders, etc.
On the fat front, 30% of total calories comes to 420. Since there are 9 calories in each gram of fat, this would equate to 47 or so grams of fat. You'd be left with 500 calories left to fill.
Good sources of fat include fish oils, flax, fish, olive oil, avocados, nuts, natural peanut butter, etc
If we go with our ballparked numbers for veggies and fruits, we'd have 130ish calories coming from veggies and 180ish coming from fruit. We'd be left with 190 calories left to fill.
This final allotment is your freebie. Fill it with whatever you'd like.
Just remember this is a process. You don't get to sign a contract and expect things to work indefinitely. The process should look *something* like this:
1. Estimate total energy expenditure. (this is where I start with the 14-16 cals per pound)
2. Set your caloric intake at a level above or below the above estimation depending on whether you want to gain or lose weight, respectively.
3. Track your measurements, weight, body fat, pictures, etc every 2-4 weeks.
4. Based on the trend you’re seeing with your tracking, adjust your intake accordingly.
5. Rinse and repeat steps 2-4 until you a) reach your goal or b) your goals change.
You're an accountant, so you must like numbers. Therefore you must like this post.
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well I'm 25, 5'4", 125 on a good day, and I'm female.
By "didn't work out very well" - I tried the Cto5k, and I was consistent, but I couldn't even get to step 2. I couldn't run for the 90 sec intervals, with the 60 sec break, I would feel like I couldn't catch my breath and toward the end I would just walk a little faster rather than walk.
I suppose you are right that bulky is a general term, but I noticed that I couldn't wear the shirts I could normally wear that were tight around my biceps. And when I wore sleeveless or short sleeved shirts, my arms looks out of proportion with my body.
I was doing a 8 weeks program at the time, so it worked out my upper and lower bodies on different days, with light weights.0 -
By "didn't work out very well" - I tried the Cto5k, and I was consistent, but I couldn't even get to step 2. I couldn't run for the 90 sec intervals, with the 60 sec break, I would feel like I couldn't catch my breath and toward the end I would just walk a little faster rather than walk.
That's the problem with prepackaged programs. They might be great for the majority. But there will always be some statistical outliers for whom they're either too aggressively or conservatively structured. There's really no reason to get discouraged. I'd develop some sort of balanced program that is in line with your current abilities/conditioning and work on gradually yet consistently building up from there.
That's the name of the game, really.I suppose you are right that bulky is a general term, but I noticed that I couldn't wear the shirts I could normally wear that were tight around my biceps. And when I wore sleeveless or short sleeved shirts, my arms looks out of proportion with my body.
I was doing a 8 weeks program at the time, so it worked out my upper and lower bodies on different days, with light weights.
Light weights generally aren't going to grow muscles in a guy who's eating enough to support muscle growth. A dieting female (who isn't hormonally dispositioned to gain lots of muscle due to hormone levels) is even less likely to grow appreciably on the muscle front. Hell, put her on a calorie surplus lifting light weights and it still remains the same.
You need to surpass a certain level of tension in the muscle with adequate volume to force it to grow. And that's probably a bunch of gibberish to you... but suffice it to say.... female, light weights, and calorie deficits don't mix together for growth.
Granted, you could have been off, calorically speaking and you could have been completely untrained before starting and these facts could change things.
But even still... if you primed your environment for muscle growth, I don't think you'd be upset with what's left after all the fat is gone. Really think about that. You might grow your upper arm, for instance, by a quarter of an inch via hypertrophy (muscle growth). And that might make your arm measure a quarter of an inch bigger, thus making your sleeves tighter. But what about when the fat is lost? Will you look better with that new found muscle or without it? That's up to the jury... but I'd put my money on the former.0 -
So even after I start building muscle and my sleeves get tighter, I will still lose fat and the sleeves will eventually fit?
I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding.
If that is the case, I guess that is my course to failure, because I usually panic and go back to my elliptical because I definitely don't want to look bigger.0 -
LOVE THE POST!!!! I'm all about numbers. I'll be crunching and figuring all day now
thanks! I'm sure I have the exercise portion on track -- I am definitely addicted to the need to exercise. Even my kids love how happy mommy is after her long run :ohwell: Endorphins are my friend! :drinker:
I will work on the diet portion. I try to focus on protein but probably don't get as much as I need. I like your formula and will certainly give it a go. I have a race next month so my focus right now is fueling and getting ready for my race. Really want a PR. I know loosing 10 pounds would certainly help this short girl run faster -- so I definitely have the motivation -- just need the recipe for success!!! Thanks for all your help! I will certainly keep you posted. hoping the next body analysis shows some positive changes -- if not, I'm going to turn into a couch potato that eats bon-bons all day :noway:
You have been fabulous -- thanks again for all your responses.
Enjoy your day!
Julie0 -
So even after I start building muscle and my sleeves get tighter, I will still lose fat and the sleeves will eventually fit?
I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding.
If that is the case, I guess that is my course to failure, because I usually panic and go back to my elliptical because I definitely don't want to look bigger.
Muscle building is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. Calories are energy. When you're dieting, by definition, you don't have adequate calories coming in the door to maintain what you have. Your body, "knowing this," isn't going to make matters worse by adding a lot of metabolically active tissue such as muscle.
An extreme example is an anorexic. Do you think he or she would get bulky lifting weights in the face of their starvation?
So where am I going with this?
If you think you got noticeably bigger muscles lifting weights while dieting, you either were fooling yourself, shrunk your shirt sleeves, weren't actually in a calorie deficit, or added a very slight amount of muscle due to the novelty of the stress (which can happen).0 -
Thanks so much for some great things to think about. I'm just starting out, and I'm determined to not think of this as a diet or even as "loosing weight". I'm trying to get in the mind frame that I am getting healthier, and that's going to take a while.
To that end, I appreciated the knowledge that even light weights will aide me in my quest. It will help me not rush for the most weight I can lift, but instead build toward a healthier me.
And just for the record, I'm not after skeletal, much preferred toned!0 -
LOVE THE POST!!!! I'm all about numbers. I'll be crunching and figuring all day now thanks! I'm sure I have the exercise portion on track -- I am definitely addicted to the need to exercise. Even my kids love how happy mommy is after her long run :ohwell: Endorphins are my friend! :drinker:
I will work on the diet portion. I try to focus on protein but probably don't get as much as I need. I like your formula and will certainly give it a go. I have a race next month so my focus right now is fueling and getting ready for my race. Really want a PR. I know loosing 10 pounds would certainly help this short girl run faster -- so I definitely have the motivation -- just need the recipe for success!!! Thanks for all your help! I will certainly keep you posted. hoping the next body analysis shows some positive changes -- if not, I'm going to turn into a couch potato that eats bon-bons all day :noway:
You have been fabulous -- thanks again for all your responses.
Enjoy your day!
Julie
Good luck Julie.
And if your next analysis doesn't go well, I think it's time to emphasize body composition over running performance more. But we'll cross that bridge if or when we have to.
Kick some *kitten*!0 -
hmmm this is interesting. Well like you said an anorexic person is obviouly not building muscle, but it's strange that I would feel tighter in my regular clothes.
according to MFP, I should be eating 1200 and according to your calculation I should be eating 1500.
maybe this whole running and weight lifting thing isn't for me just yet, I guess I'll just stick to my elliptical and stair climber.
Would you say that a person doing cardio and may or may not be trying to lose weight should increase the protein intake too? or is that only for strength training?0 -
Thanks so much for some great things to think about. I'm just starting out, and I'm determined to not think of this as a diet or even as "loosing weight". I'm trying to get in the mind frame that I am getting healthier, and that's going to take a while.
Sounds like you have the right mindset. And you're welcome. Thanks for tuning in.To that end, I appreciated the knowledge that even light weights will aide me in my quest. It will help me not rush for the most weight I can lift, but instead build toward a healthier me.
I'm glad you picked up on that. A lot of folks get very overzealous in the weight room. I don't know if it's ego, a sense of urgency, or what... but they wind up going wayyy heavier than they're ready for. Strength is something to build over time and you shouldn't start adding weight until you're 100% comfortable with how your body is supposed to move in each movement you select.
When you are ready to add weight though, when it comes to relatively lean folks trying to get leaner, it is important to use heavy weights. What's heavy? Well, in exercise science intensity is measured as a percentage of maximum effort. In very general terms, when the time is right, folks should be working out in the 70-95% of max zone, which translates to the 1-12 rep range per set.
If you're not doing enough work above this threshold, it's going to be hard to gain or preserve muscle while dieting after some consistent time spend "under the bar."And just for the record, I'm not after skeletal, much preferred toned!
You mean the crackhead model look? I'm glad to hear it!0 -
ooh this is very interesting thanks! Just bumping for later!! x0
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hmmm this is interesting. Well like you said an anorexic person is obviouly not building muscle, but it's strange that I would feel tighter in my regular clothes.
according to MFP, I should be eating 1200 and according to your calculation I should be eating 1500.
1200 would put you at 9-10 calories per pound, and that's not a terrible thing. For fat loss, I suggest a range of 8-12 calories per pound. Obviously the best is to eat as much as possible while triggering appreciable fat loss. But where that falls exactly in terms of cals/lb is going to vary on the person and what he or she is doing.maybe this whole running and weight lifting thing isn't for me just yet
Running and elliptical are one in the same in my mind. Just differing tools for the same goal - that being improved cardiorespiratory fitness and energy expenditure. Granted, they're biomechanically unique, meaning they exert specific and different stresses on the body... so one may be better suited for someone over the other.
If you're not obese, I think you should be weight training. I typically don't make blanket statements like that... but that's how important I feel it is for health and physique.
Could your calorie intake be off. Humans, by nature, of horrific at tracking calories. How are you measuring? Are you using a food scale? Are you certain you're tracking every calorie that passes your lips? How consistent are you in doing so?Would you say that a person doing cardio and may or may not be trying to lose weight should increase the protein intake too? or is that only for strength training?
Strength training would require more, in general.
However, protein is important for more than repair and muscle growth. It's the most satiating of the nutrients. It is the most "expensive" to digest and utilize, so there's a slight bump in energy expenditure in higher protein diets compared to lower. And having an extra pool of amino acids floating around the bloodstream will lead to preferential use over your stored amino acids (muscle) which is a good thing as far as body comp goes.2 -
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Wow, this is EXACTLY what I needed to hear / read today! I have been getting really frustrated that I'll get SO close to my goal and then never seem to reach it, so I lose some motivation. I guess I need to work on my patience
Thanks, this was awesome. 0 -
I guess I need to work on my patience
Or your expectations. Or your goals, assuming the only concrete ones you have are scale based.Thanks, this was awesome.
You're welcome.0 -
Great post.
When I first started trying to lose the weight I'd gained in my final year of uni I started eating well and going to the gym, and was mostly focussed on how much I'd need to weigh. After a couple of weeks,my mindset changed completely,and my goals became much more based around becoming more healthy and toned. Im 5ft2,and at my absolute lightest I weighed around 105bs, I now weigh around 130 and can get into the same jeans (a little more snug admittedly,but not much), and I credit that to training. I LOVE working out,and working towards a healthier,fitter and stronger body. Weight sometimes is just a number 0 -
Could your calorie intake be off. Humans, by nature, of horrific at tracking calories. How are you measuring? Are you using a food scale? Are you certain you're tracking every calorie that passes your lips? How consistent are you in doing so?
well I'm definitely not consistent and I don't have a food scale. But I try to visualize the smallest "cup" possible and pretty much modify everything so it is 1.5 times what I think it is.
I should mention that I am vegeterian and eat a lot of veggies and lentils on a regular basis, but there are days when I have a hard time reaching even a 1200 goal because I'm so full (these being days when I've loaded up on fiber or high water foods, only to wake up the next morning starving).
I suppose my problem is the same as the rest. My lowest weight was around 115, and I looked and felt my "best" then. I should probably not aim for the 115 any more and just concentrate on a leaner body rather than a lower weight body. So perhaps, I'm doing the wrong workout programs.0 -
Hey. It's funny cause I was going to post something that may fall into this column just before I came across this thread. Basically I always seem to stay the same weight....whether I'm exercising or just eating what I want really. The 9st mark seems to love me! I know that this isn't heavy but I also know that at 5ft3 I could be in better shape.
After my first year of uni I was admittedly my heaviest ever weight at 9st10lbs and I could definately tell! But when I got home I almost instantly lost half a stone...not sure why? But I wasn't complaining hehe. Then I bought the Iphone and found the fitnesspal app. From this I appeared to be eating a bit too much and cut down to my recommended calorie intake of 1200. I then started up swimming going twice a week sometimes 3 times. I also attend the gym a little. Started walking a little bit more and have recently started up spinning once a week. I also do stomach crunches daily and ocassionally go on my mums vibration plate haha! Since then...in about 2.5 months I've lost 5lbs...recently putting a lb back on due to my first clubbin session in months!
I think I have toned up slightly and my family can tell I have slimmed down but tbh it is a bit discouraging knowing that I barely look any different to when I was 9st before and ate what I wanted and didn't do as much. I really enjoy swimming so I don't mind going but I feel my motivation might get lost when I go back to uni as I haven't had all that good results! =/ I must be doing something wrong? Any advice/help would be appreciated thanks.2 -
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Sigh. This isn't really what I want to hear. I like doing light weight high rep work because my gym has a class in that category and I like going for the social aspect. Contrast that to doing the resistance components of p90x at home by myself... its much more boring. Still, what you're saying makes sense any my own experience supports it. Its also very clear and enjoyable to read, so thanks!
I'm about 165lb, 6"0 (male), 31.5" abdominal, 7.7 w/h ratio... very fit in terms of cardio but still have a soft gut. I guess I can do a modified p90x over a shorter time so I don't get too bored with it. Then I can go back to the social class for a while before returning to the higher weight options.
One thing I find really hard though at this point is working out how much I should be eating. You mentioned this in your original post, but its not as simple as you implied. I really try quite hard to measure food accurately: I weigh or measure almost everything and count almost everything (some days if I'm at the bar it gets tricky, but that's about once a month at most). But before, when I was aiming for a 500cal deficit, I seemed to be putting on weight (fat, not muscle). I went from 173lb back up to 180lb over a few months. Can my metabolism really be so low that 1770 (that was my target calorie intake) is not a deficit? I've adjusted my target to 1440 and that seems to be working, but I don't want all the lose to be muscle mass. Damn dilemas. How do you work out how much you really need to be eating for a given individual rather than a rule of thumb measure?0 -
well I'm definitely not consistent and I don't have a food scale. But I try to visualize the smallest "cup" possible and pretty much modify everything so it is 1.5 times what I think it is.
I should mention that I am vegeterian and eat a lot of veggies and lentils on a regular basis, but there are days when I have a hard time reaching even a 1200 goal because I'm so full (these being days when I've loaded up on fiber or high water foods, only to wake up the next morning starving).
Well you can take this for what it's worth. But with my clients who are struggling to get the ball rolling... I won't even delve into details until they pick up a food scale and track what's actually passing their lips in weight. You can conservatively eyeball things but the overwhelming majority of research points a very clear picture of just how horrific people are at accurately assessing intake.
I recently read a paper showing how significantly "off" dietitians were who were asked to weigh and track their intake. And these are professionals of diet. The further away from that standard you go in the research, the more "off" people are. Some are off by 60%+.
I've found this to ring very true in my own dealings with numerous clients.
Again, take it for what it's worth. Personally, if I were struggling, my first step would be examining my true intake as closely as I could.I suppose my problem is the same as the rest. My lowest weight was around 115, and I looked and felt my "best" then. I should probably not aim for the 115 any more and just concentrate on a leaner body rather than a lower weight body. So perhaps, I'm doing the wrong workout programs.
It's hard for me to say without seeing you but it's definitely worth consideration.
I feel the need to apologize... as if I've been giving you a hard time. Hopefully you can respect my conciseness.0 -
I've got a newborn to take care of tonight. I'll get in here tomorrow to answer the remaining questions. Thanks for keeping this thread going guys. I've enjoyed the conversation so far... gave me something to do on my day off.0
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Great thread. I am one of the ones trying to lose the last bit of fat after a fairly large weight loss a few years back (45lbs) so this has been a good insight. I am currently 160lbs at 5"8' and definitely the strongest I have ever been. When I was losing the weight initially, I was only really doing running. I lost the weight alright but I lost a LOT of muscle as well. If I had my time again, I would be implementing some resistance training about half way through my weight loss.
I am now at the point where I think I actually want to put some more weight on (which is a huge mindset change for someone who was always large) but it is hard to change the patterns of eating to gain weight. I am not so much scale obsessive but BF% caliper obsessive :P I only measure once a week though at least.
My workouts consist of mma training, resistance training (currently Wendlers 5/3/1 on DL, Bench, squat and Overhead press) and usually finish with some HIIT.
Will continue to train the above and add some more food to diet soon to get some hypertrophy (with any luck :P)
This mindset change has basically come about after a fairly long time trying to lose last bit of fat without losing LBM. Keeping 1g/lb protein and having a moderate deficit I would say. As you say, small deficit means it would take a fairly long time to notice any difference.1 -
Light weights generally aren't going to grow muscles in a guy who's eating enough to support muscle growth. A dieting female (who isn't hormonally dispositioned to gain lots of muscle due to hormone levels) is even less likely to grow appreciably on the muscle front. Hell, put her on a calorie surplus lifting light weights and it still remains the same.
You need to surpass a certain level of tension in the muscle with adequate volume to force it to grow. And that's probably a bunch of gibberish to you... but suffice it to say.... female, light weights, and calorie deficits don't mix together for growth.
This is so true!! Trust me, I didn't believe it either. As soon as I saw the scale move up I got worried and thought I was eating too much. But then I measured and did calipers and realized I was indeed gaining muscle and not fat.
And yes, my shirts are a little tighter in the shoulders and arms, but who cares? All of my pants fit me (and better I think).
I look and most importantly, FEEL better. I attribute this completely to weight training.0 -
Hey. It's funny cause I was going to post something that may fall into this column just before I came across this thread. Basically I always seem to stay the same weight....whether I'm exercising or just eating what I want really. The 9st mark seems to love me! I know that this isn't heavy but I also know that at 5ft3 I could be in better shape.
Google "setpoint" and "settling point"After my first year of uni I was admittedly my heaviest ever weight at 9st10lbs and I could definately tell! But when I got home I almost instantly lost half a stone...not sure why?
Settling point is a product of your environment. When your environment changes, purposefully or not, your weight tends to change. The food selection was almost definitely different from uni, for instance.But I wasn't complaining hehe. Then I bought the Iphone and found the fitnesspal app. From this I appeared to be eating a bit too much and cut down to my recommended calorie intake of 1200.
Wow, I've not looked at the tools here at MFP, but why are they telling everyone to eat 1200 calories!? Or so it seems.I think I have toned up slightly and my family can tell I have slimmed down but tbh it is a bit discouraging knowing that I barely look any different to when I was 9st before and ate what I wanted and didn't do as much.
You're usually the last person to notice change. You see yourself multiple times each and everyday. It's like watching your hair grow.I really enjoy swimming so I don't mind going but I feel my motivation might get lost when I go back to uni as I haven't had all that good results! =/ I must be doing something wrong? Any advice/help would be appreciated thanks.
If you've read this thread, it should be obvious that you should be adding strength training to the mix.0 -
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Sigh. This isn't really what I want to hear. I like doing light weight high rep work because my gym has a class in that category and I like going for the social aspect. Contrast that to doing the resistance components of p90x at home by myself... its much more boring. Still, what you're saying makes sense any my own experience supports it. Its also very clear and enjoyable to read, so thanks!
I hear ya. Those cardio/resistance classes are something I have some beef with. If they advertised them as cardio with weights... that'd be one thing. But of the ones I see... that's not what they do. They promise toning and muscle building and that's bogus.
Here's the deal.
We apply external resistance to our bodies via dumbbells, barbells, kettlebells, bands, etc in order to generate tension in our muscles. The greater the force, the greater the tension (without getting into power, for the nerds who might be reading this). So light weights for a lot of reps will generate low levels of force/tension. Heavy weights for fewer reps will generate greater levels of force/tension.
I believe I said earlier in this thread that a force/tension threshold exists. In order to increase strength and muscle, you need to be using loads that generate force/tension above this threshold.
Here's the kicker though...
Just as our bodies are adaptive to any other stress, they're also adaptive to this threshold. In complete novices or folks who are very detrained... their thresholds are going to be much lower than in folks who have been consistently and progressively training for a year or years. Think about that.
This is why, for beginners, pretty much *anything* works.
Those classes that are cardio with weights will "work" for beginners in that they'll be above the threshold and stimulate some muscle and strength gains (without factoring in nutritional state). As their bodies adapt though, that high rep, pump and tone junk isn't going to cut it. And that's what they don't want you to know because they need to "fill the seats."
After a while, traditional strength training is called for.
Unfortunately, this industry has brainwashed people into believing the only exercise that is worth while are the types that leave you sweating buckets with a jacked up heart rate. If it's not leaving you huffing and puffing and feeling "the burn" then it's not worthwhile. And this couldn't be further from the truth.I'm about 165lb, 6"0 (male), 31.5" abdominal, 7.7 w/h ratio... very fit in terms of cardio but still have a soft gut. I guess I can do a modified p90x over a shorter time so I don't get too bored with it. Then I can go back to the social class for a while before returning to the higher weight options.
Maybe you should ditch the prepackaged program and think about designing a traditional strength training routine that you'll enjoy that you can do in the weight room of your gym.One thing I find really hard though at this point is working out how much I should be eating. You mentioned this in your original post, but its not as simple as you implied. I really try quite hard to measure food accurately: I weigh or measure almost everything and count almost everything (some days if I'm at the bar it gets tricky, but that's about once a month at most). But before, when I was aiming for a 500cal deficit, I seemed to be putting on weight (fat, not muscle). I went from 173lb back up to 180lb over a few months. Can my metabolism really be so low that 1770 (that was my target calorie intake) is not a deficit? I've adjusted my target to 1440 and that seems to be working, but I don't want all the lose to be muscle mass. Damn dilemas. How do you work out how much you really need to be eating for a given individual rather than a rule of thumb measure?
The rule of thumb is the only way to approach this.
I determine total daily energy expenditure by multiplying their body weight by 15 or so. This assumes they're working out regularly. I should also note that I'll shift this calculation based on the person, so there is some customization. For instance, I'm currently working with a 375 lb woman. There's no way in hell she's expending 5,625 (375x15) calories per day. It's more than likely 11-12 or so calories per day... so her estimate of TDEE would be 4000 or so.
I'm also working with a very skinny fellow who came to me asking for help "bulking up." He's 6'1 and 140 lbs. In his case, his TDEE is probably somewhere around 17-18 calories per pound.
Either way though, the accuracy of your estimated TDEE isn't all that important. If it's "off" the process will uncover the inaccuracies.
From there, it's a matter of creating a deficit (Daily Calorie Goal) from the TDEE. 30% is a rule of thumb, though there are cases where I go above or below this.
Then I balance out the nutrients that will provide me my DCG.
From there, the process begins. If things aren't heading in the desired direction after a number of weeks, we adjust. This is where the inaccuracies are uncovered and accounted for. Of course, it's not always that the TDEE or DCG was inaccurate. Actually, more than likely, it's the actual calorie intake that's flawed since, as I noted a number of times, people suck at tracking calories... even if they're using a food scale.
But that doens't matter.
The fact remains that they're eating too much to generate a significant deficit.
The advice is to eat less. Within reason, mind you. If they're to a point where their back's against the wall, calorically speaking... meaning if they go lower in calories it'll tap into their ability to derive adequate amounts of nutrition to maintain health... obviously something is wrong.
And that's where I'll refer out to the medical community. I might start by having the client take their waking temperature over a number of days. A reduced temperature is a general indicator of something going on on the metabolism front (thyroid, parasympathetic nervous system output, etc).
Or, if the person has been exercising too much, which is pretty typical, or they've been dieting for ridiculous periods of time without a break, I might gradually and incrementally bring calories up to what should be their maintenance while I reduce the volume of exercise. This will give their bodies a chance to "reset" if you will. Once maintenance is reached, then I'll structure their diets and exercise programming with more sane parameters.
At the end of the day though... if you're not losing weight over the long term eating what you calculated to be a deficit:
1. Your TDEE is wrong
2. Your calculated/tracked intake is wrong
3. Something is going on medically
4. You need to give your body a break
If I had to order by how often I've encountered each of these in my decade plus of doing this... it'd be 2, 1, 4, 3.
I'm not sure if that answers your question or not, but I'm up for more if there are still misunderstandings.0
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