Relatively light people trying to get leaner

SolidGoaled

Stroutman81 -

This thread is so interesting - although, I myself am in the 50+ lbs to lose category which several times you mention that a lot of this advice does not apply to. Do you have a thread dedicated to the 50+ to lose group? If not, would you care to start one?

And I haven't read this ENTIRE thread, but I am off to do that now - perhaps there is some advice for me that I have missed.

I am especially interested in the effects/benefits of cardio and weight lifting (low weight/high rep vs high weight/low rep) plus details on what the composition of my diet should be.

stroutman81

What are your current stats? I'm 5'3" and about 120lbs (fluctuates). Supposedly 15% body fat by calipers but probably closer to 20. Resting heart rate 55. What else is included in stats,lol?

I was doing 1200 (cardio day) - 1700 (weight training day) zig zags, but fell off of counting recently. Up until a week ago was doing this with leangains 16hr intermittent fasting, but wasn't always getting my calories in

How are you strength training, specifically? I got a routine from a YouTube trainer :blushing: . For instance it's

Cable chest press 8-10 (I'm up to 45# now)
Alternating dumbbell chest press on stability ball 12-15 (at15#)

To controlled failure 90 sec break (usually jumprope), then repeat x3-4 sets

Vertical cable pull downs 8-10 (I'm up to 65#)
Supermans on stability ball 12-15

To controlled failure, 90 sec break, 3-4 sets

Squats with dumbbell 8-10 (i'm up to 35#)
Single leg bench bridge (12-15 each side)

90 sec break, 3-4 sets

Is your circuit training your strength training?
It was, or p90x or no more trouble zones. Now I do the above or a similar routine 3x/week

What do your cardio sessions consist of?
Intervals on the elliptical 2min at hr 150s (75% mhr) 2 min at hr 170s (85-90% mhr) x 30minutes, or spinning avg hr 160s x30-60 min, or insanity (intervals 45-60min, hr to 180s, the rest, repeat), or occasionally I'll do varying inclines on the treadmill, avg hr 140s for something light.

Yeah, I realized it's been a while shortly after writing my post to you. I took a dieting break (unintentionally!) around the Xmas holidays. i cant remember my last training break more than 2 days. did take 4 days off from dieting and 2 days off from training, felt good doing strength training NOT followed by cardio the day before yesterday and did insanity yesterday without issues.

So maybe i've been doing too much since my body loved that short break. It's hard to scale back cause I'm 2 lbs away from my goal weight and just want to lose another inch in my waist and hips. I feel like I'm so close and also don't want to lose strength or gain fat resting too long. What do you recommend?

Thanks

My recommendation would be to take a break. As you near the genetic limits of leanness, which you are, it's so important to manage the recovery side of the equation. It actually takes priority. Our bodies resist leanness for the most part, so when we're at this stage, you really have to work "with" your body opposed to "against" it. Most think they need to do things "harder" at this stage (less calories, more intense training, longer sessions, etc) when, in reality, what's called for is smarter, not harder, training.

At the very least, I'd recommend the following:

1. Complete diet breaks every 4 -6 weeks or so where calories are brought up to maintenance. During this time, it'd be a good idea to deload your strength training as well and focus more on recovery training such as myofascial release, stretching, low intensity cardio, etc.

2. Within the above, it might be wise to take some cyclical approach with carbs. I see you were following Martin's IF protocol which works great for some. Others don't seem to fare well on it. If you're in this latter camp, you need to be flexible. You may consider more evenly distributed meal frequencies while keeping carbs low throughout much of the day except for around training. You may also consider refeeds (short periods, maybe 5 hours or so, of carbohydrate overfeeding) 1 to 2 times per week.

3. I'd shoot for 3 sessions of strength training per week where you're hitting all the major movements. But I wouldn't be working to failure. At all. Something as simple as:

Day 1: Heavy (4-6 reps, 2-4 sets)
Squat
Row
Bench

Day 2: Light (12-15 reps, 2-3 sets)
Rear Foot Elevated Split Squats
Standing Overhead Press
Pulldowns

Day 3: Medium (8-12 reps, 2-3 sets)
Deadlift
Pullup or assisted pullup
Incline Bench Press

Obviously you can tack on some accessory stuff such as direct core work and arm fluff if you want, but this would be enough to maintain what you have. If you like supersets so there's not a lot of sitting around, superset each movement with some sort of mobility or tissue quality exercise. And the exercises aren't set in stone either... feel free to insert what you prefer, as long as similar movement patterns are utilized.

Remember, don't train to failure. Maybe technical failure... where you're unable to perform any more reps with perfect, and I mean PERFECT form. I like to tell people to leave 1-2 reps in the tank... meaning the last rep of each set should feel like you could do another 1 or 2.

Also remember that when you go into a diet break, bump down your intensity in the strength training department for that same week.

On the cardio side of things, I'd regulate intensity quite a bit. Remember, you only have so much recovery ability to go around which is dampened even more when you're lean trying to get leaner and you're in a deficit. I'd keep most of your cardio in the moderate range... say 75% if MHR for 20-40 minutes.

It's hard to get into things more specifically than this. But I'd be happy to continue the exchange if you have more questions. Bottom line is I think you're not allowing your body to recover enough.

stroutman81

If I think how much training has changed for me since last year...

Coming from an endurance cardio background I found it hard psychologically when I first started weight training, as it took time away from running, cycling etc. You have it in your head that you must do X-number of hours to maintain a certain level of fitness, burn calories etc. But my body was exhausted and I had become so hooked on carbs I stored fat like nobody's business despite hours of cardio each week. I needed loads of sleep just to feel vaguely normal and I had very little functional strength.

Now energy-wise, as well as in terms of biomechanics, I can't believe how well I'm feeling. I bounce out of bed in the morning, my joints feel much more stable (I'm hypermobile), I can't beliiieeeve how much belly fat I've lost whilst only doing a fraction of the cardio that I used to (4" off my waist), and I genuinely love being able to do stuff like press-ups on my toes etc... plus I feel I've become a stronger cyclist, my hip no longer aches after long runs and my shoulder no longer complains after long swims.

Hard weights rock! :smokin:

Great for you! And thanks for helping spread the message.

stroutman81

Stroutman81 -

This thread is so interesting - although, I myself am in the 50+ lbs to lose category which several times you mention that a lot of this advice does not apply to. Do you have a thread dedicated to the 50+ to lose group? If not, would you care to start one?

And I haven't read this ENTIRE thread, but I am off to do that now - perhaps there is some advice for me that I have missed.

I am especially interested in the effects/benefits of cardio and weight lifting (low weight/high rep vs high weight/low rep) plus details on what the composition of my diet should be.

I don't have a thread specifically for heavier folks who've more fat to lose. It's certainly a good idea. I'd be afraid that I couldn't keep up with it though. I haven't been getting on here as much. But I'll say this... much of what I discuss in this thread applies to most people interested in fat loss. If anything though, people with more fat to lose don't have to be as careful as their leaner counterparts. They aren't going to run into metabolic slowdown as easily, they aren't going to lose lots of muscle, they have much more "wiggle room" in the calorie department since they have much higher maintenance intakes, etc, etc.

I'd suggest this. Read my interview with Lyle McDonald. We speak a lot about this sort of stuff. From there, if you've questions, I am ALL ears. And I will certainly think about starting a thread as you suggested.

Here is the interview:

http://www.body-improvements.com/Articles/Interviews/LyleInterview.html

SolidGoaled

Thanks! I will read the article and post back with any questions. Your knowledge is impressive.

fteale

I completely agree with the opening poster, and think that is far far more of an issue than starvation mode. The fact is, losing weight when you don't have much to lose is very hard, for the exact reasons stated. There's not actually much room for manoeuvre.

cutmd

Stroutman thank you so much fir your reply, very helpful! I am taking a break, although I'm a little nervous. How long should the diet break be? A week?

Elle408

Love this thread, it's probably the only one I read regularly just to avoid the repeat posts!

Most of my questions have been answered, I was going to ask about severe exhaustion following workouts, an exhaustion that seems to build over a few days before I have a carb/sugar binge... But, logically I know that I must be pushing it too hard and my body is telling me in no uncertain terms that it can't keep up so I guess i'll adjust things accordingly!

One thing I will ask.... I am hypermobile too and have a dilated aorta (it's not severe at the moment and i have the ok from my doc to workout) so can't really push it in terms of weights and intensity... will I be able to become lean? Will I still get definition if I can't ever lift higher than 35kg? I know that any exercise is better than no exercise but I guess I would have to readjust my thinking and my goals if it's never going to happen!

swanny320

I haven't read all the posts yet (but I will) in this thread but I have some questions. I am one of those females that has believed that if I run miles and miles and reduce my calories, I will get fit. I currently weigh 125 and I am 5'5. I totally buy into everything you are saying but I have some questions:

1. When you say heavy weights, is this limited to free weights or can one also use weight machines?

2. How does one determine what constitutes as "heavy weights" and how does one determine the number of reps and sets?
I totally want to shift my focus to heavy weights instead of doing calorie restriction and intense cardio but I am not certain where to start.

Btw, you should have your own tv show/book/etc . You're brilliant!

peaches6311

According to my GoWear Fit I average about 2200 calories a day burn, and I eat about 1800 calories a day. So I am not starving myself by any means

I will steadily lose for awhile, and then it seems as if everything goes haywire and I put it all back (and maybe a few) and then it starts all over again

Not starving yourself, no. But you're adding to the pot of stress you're imposing on your body. Less nutrition coming in the door means less ability to recover. And when you're doing marathon 2 hour sessions per day, stressing out about plateauing, and whatever else you have going on in the gym and in life and this stuff's paired with a calorie deficit... well...

Competitive athletes can have crazy workloads. But they eat to support it. And they take planned breaks to allow for recovery (periodization).

Who knows... maybe this isn't the case with you. But it's the case with most I encounter in your shoes. Maybe you're the one off who is eating more than you believe or expending less than you believe.

I do plan a recovery week about every 6 weeks or sooner if my body tells me I need one. During that week I continue martial arts, Pilates and may throw in a Yoga class but no lifting.

What else would you suggest? If I had to choose to either cut back my exercise or stay a little heavy, I would stay a little heavy. But I am hoping that there is another choice.

Do you think if I cut my calories a little more (say 500 deficit a day) and take a recovery week every 4 weeks that would work better?

pj_writer

Hi
I'm just reporting back to say how glad I am that I found this thread, it's revolutionised my approach to exercise. I used to only really do cardio and abs work with occasional bouts of exercise DVDs that incorporated some resistance stuff but never used weights bigger than 1.5 kgs before and only ever used the same weights on the machines in the gym - I never tried to systematically increase the load before.

Since reading this around 4 weeks ago I've stepped up my weight training both at home and in the gym. I'm lifting way heavier weights than I've ever done before and am feeling great.
I've lost 1% of body fat, a couple of lbs in weight and an inch off my waist - and I've been on a goal of 1600 cals a day (which I've fairly reliably stuck to). I would never have believed that was possible.
My skinny jeans are getting loose :bigsmile:

oh and for women worried about looking butch - my shoulders have got slightly bigger but noone else would notice but me and everything else has got smaller or stayed the same so I can live with that
thanks again!

corpus_validum

Hi
I'm just reporting back to say how glad I am that I found this thread, it's revolutionised my approach to exercise. I used to only really do cardio and abs work with occasional bouts of exercise DVDs that incorporated some resistance stuff but never used weights bigger than 1.5 kgs before and only ever used the same weights on the machines in the gym - I never tried to systematically increase the load before.

Since reading this around 4 weeks ago I've stepped up my weight training both at home and in the gym. I'm lifting way heavier weights than I've ever done before and am feeling great.
I've lost 1% of body fat, a couple of lbs in weight and an inch off my waist - and I've been on a goal of 1600 cals a day (which I've fairly reliably stuck to). I would never have believed that was possible.
My skinny jeans are getting loose :bigsmile:

oh and for women worried about looking butch - my shoulders have got slightly bigger but noone else would notice but me and everything else has got smaller or stayed the same so I can live with that
thanks again!

Awesome!!! You should post this in the "Success Stories" forum too, if you haven't already. Congrats 2 u.

Happyoceangirl

Bumping so I can come back and read the entire thread. Looks like A LOT of helpful info.

stroutman81

Stroutman thank you so much fir your reply, very helpful! I am taking a break, although I'm a little nervous. How long should the diet break be? A week?

1-2 weeks generally speaking.

And don't be nervous. Logic slays nerves. Keep reminding yourself that:

i) coming off of a prolonged period of dieting and exercise will cause some weight gain in the form of water weight

ii) in order to gain fat, we need to be a surplus. And even if we get maintenance slightly wrong and eat in a slight surplus... it's not going to be in an amount that would generate pounds of fat gain. I mean to gain just 2 pounds of fat over the course of your break, you'd have to eat 7000 calories in excess of your maintenance needs. Unless you're eating in your sleep, it'd be extremely difficult to miss the mark by that much. In essence, there's nothing to worry about. You don't get fat overnight.

stroutman81

Love this thread, it's probably the only one I read regularly just to avoid the repeat posts!

Glad you enjoy the thread. I do too.

Most of my questions have been answered, I was going to ask about severe exhaustion following workouts, an exhaustion that seems to build over a few days before I have a carb/sugar binge... But, logically I know that I must be pushing it too hard and my body is telling me in no uncertain terms that it can't keep up so I guess i'll adjust things accordingly!

Many variables at play here but to give my thoughts, I'd need to know more about how you eat and exercise.

One thing I will ask.... I am hypermobile too and have a dilated aorta (it's not severe at the moment and i have the ok from my doc to workout) so can't really push it in terms of weights and intensity... will I be able to become lean? Will I still get definition if I can't ever lift higher than 35kg? I know that any exercise is better than no exercise but I guess I would have to readjust my thinking and my goals if it's never going to happen!

Remember, leanness is a function of losing body fat while maintaining muscle mass. Most people screw up on the "maintaining muscle mass" side of things by not lifting heavily. Keep in mind though that the majority of muscle maintenance is predetermined by your genetics. And you still have one weapon in your arsenal to promote muscle - eat sufficient protein. If you are eating sufficient protein, you'll have a pool of aminos in your bloodstream that will preferentially be tapped into before your muscle.

pamp1emousse

Hi Stroutman, I was wondering if I could ask you another question? Calorie related this time

So I've been maintaining these past few weeks, gradually increasing my calories from BMR (1350) to 1500 where I am now (50 calories a week). I've started a new job which involved 5.30am starts and being pretty busy in the day (care work) so the amount I've been exercising has gone down from 5-7 times a week (burning 350-500 calories) to 2-3 times a week (burning 350-450) with 1 hour of walking to work 4 times a week. I've been trying to increase my strength training in the way you suggested, so it's been lots of compound exercises - inverted rows, pushups, lunges etc, rather than exercises like bicep curls.

My problem is is that I'm pretty sure I'm gaining weight! It's definitely not muscle mass - I haven't been exercising enough for that, plus I can see the weight on me. My weight does fluctuate quite a lot but I haven't seen that 120 on the scale for a while now and instead it's been between 122 and 124. What's going on??

Way too many confounding variables to say:

new job
some bad days calorically speaking
new to true strength training which can lead to muscle gain easily in the novice
working on increasing calories which means it should be expected that you see some upticks in the scale

On and on it goes. Who's to say what's really happening. But I wouldn't be worrying about it if I were you.

There are 3500 calories in 1 lb of fat. That means to gain 1 lb of fat, hypothetically speaking, you'd need to be eating 3500 calories above and beyond what your body needs for maintenance. Say you "gained" 4 lbs. Do you think you really ate 14000 calories above and beyond what your body needs since we last spoke?

I'm guessing the answer is no way.

To which I say, then who cares? This isn't about some weight. It's about how you look.

Now if you're saying you feel like you're getting softer and softer, it could very well be water from bumping calories up gradually. But I highly doubt you're packing on fat unless you're not telling us about some SERIOUS binges that equate to 14000 calories.

I'm being very honest with my logging, I've had some bad days but I've made up for them calorie-wise the following days. Surely my maintenance level can't be lower than 1500 (I'm only 22)?? I was planning to continue increasing to 1600-1700 like MFP suggests!

Not unless you've something going on metabolically speaking. I'd say, with your exercise, your maintenance is someplace around 1700 assuming everything's working as it should be. And if you were driving your body into the ground too far with insufficient calories before, it may take your metabolism a bit to "catch up" to where things should be, which is the point of systematically bumping calories up.

I was wondering if you could have a quick look through my diary for me? If you have any suggestions they would be much appreciated. I've been quite busy recently with quite a hefty change in routine (and therefore sleeping patterns) and I've come off the contraceptive pill (apparently it takes a few months for your periods to come back - they haven't yet... sorry if TMI!) but those are the only things I can think of that have changed. I don't know if they make a difference...

Even more confounding variables which makes it impossible to say, "this is the problem."

And sorry, but I don't look at food diaries. I lay the foundation with nutrient recommendations and it's up to you (as in everyone) to fill in the foods.

Thanks for your response! And just to clarify... I'm not sure what you mean by driving my body into the ground.. in terms of deficits or time? I've been at a calorie deficit for about 6 months now, but after the first month or so they become moderate-small ones. Does that count? If it does and my metabolism "needs to catch up" does that mean I'll gain fat or just water weight/other?

stroutman81

I haven't read all the posts yet (but I will) in this thread but I have some questions. I am one of those females that has believed that if I run miles and miles and reduce my calories, I will get fit. I currently weigh 125 and I am 5'5. I totally buy into everything you are saying but I have some questions:

I think you "get it" already, but for others reading this I want to elaborate...

You mentioned "get fit." You can run until you're heart's content and you WILL get fit. Fit for running. And that's my whole point... fitness or the changes we derive from our training are context specific. There's a principle known as S.A.I.D. in the strength coach circles which stands for Specific Adaptations to Imposed Demands.

Put simply... if we work to improve our running, our bodies will adapt specifically to running meaning more endurance in the legs, greater cardiorespiratory fitness, stimulation of bone growth in the legs up to a certain point, etc. If we do nothing by one rep max bench pressing, are chest muscles will grow, we'll get stronger at bench pressing, etc. Fitness is specific to how we train.

AND HOW WE TRAIN NEEDS TO BE SPECIFIC TO THE GOALS THAT WE HAVE. I can't stress the importance of this concept. It all comes down to picking a goal and then identifying what sort of bodily changes are needed in order for that goal to be realized.

In the case of most women I come across on forums such as this... being "toned" and lean is the primary goal. And we know what generally needs to happen in terms of the body for this to occur - lose fat and gain muscle.

Now it's a spectrum... some women on one end of the spectrum need more fat loss and on the other end you've women who need muscle gain. It's a matter of figuring out where you are on the spectrum and dialing in your training accordingly. AT the end of the day though, anyone with goals that entail optimizing physique should have some component of heavy resistance training at the foundation of their programming as this is what drives the specific adaptations we need when it comes to optimizing body composition.

1. When you say heavy weights, is this limited to free weights or can one also use weight machines?

Resistance is resistance. If we apply a resistance that is beyond the baseline threshold that our body is accustomed to, it will elicit change. Which is why progressive overload is so important. Look at Milo of Croton... who knows how accurate the story is but as it goes... he carried a cow - from calf to cow - and watched his strength and body change as the cow grew bigger and bigger. As far as increasing strength and size, your muscle/body doesn't care if you're lifting a barbell, a machine handle, a baby that's growing, or whatever. As long as it's above the threshold, it'll do the trick.

Now, I'd definitely a fan from basing the majority of resistance training around the use of free weights. They're much more "real world" in that they aren't locking you into a fixed plane of motion, they're more likely to call on your stabilizer muscles, etc. But some machine use is fine.

2. How does one determine what constitutes as "heavy weights" and how does one determine the number of reps and sets?

Heavy is a relative term. In exercise science, they measure intensity as the percentage of one's maximum ability in a given exercise. And in general terms, we like to see loads used that are 75% or more of ones maximum ability. So in this case it's dependent on a) the trainees current strength and b) the exercise in question. That said, I don't worry about this with myself or my clients.

I simply set a target rep range and let my clients know how it should "feel." Generally speaking, reps dictate weight as higher rep ranges require the use of lighter weights and lower rep ranges allow for more weight to be used. Granted, I could set the rep range at 8-12 and you could select a weight that you could easily do 30+ reps with, but stop at 8-12, but that would disregard the whole "how it should feel" qualifier.

So how should it feel?

You want to be using loads that feel heavy, but not so heavy that you're having to "grind" the weight up. By grind, I mean the weight goes up at a snail's pace as you shake and struggle to move the bar or dumbbell each and every inch. If I subscribe 8 reps for instance, I expect my clients to use a weight that has them reaching 8 reps with 1.. maybe 2 reps left in the tank.

I also like to use RPE (rating of perceived exertion) which I feel helps solidify how a weight should feel and thus what weight you should use. I like Mike Tuchscherer's scale the best which looks something like:

o 10: Maximal, no reps left in the tank at end of set
o 9: Last rep is tough but still one rep left in the tank
o 8: Weight is too heavy to maintain fast bar speed but isn’t a struggle; 2–4 reps left
o 7: Weight moves quickly when maximal force is applied to the weight; “speed weight”
o 6: Light speed work; moves quickly with moderate force
o 5: Most warm-up weights
o 4: Recovery; usually 20 plus rep sets; not hard but intended to flush the muscle
o An RPE below four isn’t important.

Hopefully this helps?

The deal is though, don't worry about picking the "perfect" weight originally. PIck logical rep ranges... I'd say anywhere from 4-12 per set... and start with weights that are extremely easy. This will allow for perfect form. Once you're more than comfortable with form, as this is a critical component of effective training, then start slowly adding weight to each movement over time. Remember, it's not just using a weight that's "heavy enough." It's staying ahead of your body's homeostasis threshold. If you're using weights that your body doesn't "see" as a challenge to it's current condition, it's not going to change. So I'd argue that it's the progression that's more important than the load you're using at this moment.

So start light (relative to the reps you're shooting for) and progress from there.

Btw, you should have your own tv show/book/etc . You're brilliant!

Haha, thanks very much. But I'm far from brilliant. I'm just well versed in this stuff and frankly, there's so much BS floating around about fitness that it's easy to "shine." But I do appreciate your kind words!

stroutman81

According to my GoWear Fit I average about 2200 calories a day burn, and I eat about 1800 calories a day. So I am not starving myself by any means

I will steadily lose for awhile, and then it seems as if everything goes haywire and I put it all back (and maybe a few) and then it starts all over again

Not starving yourself, no. But you're adding to the pot of stress you're imposing on your body. Less nutrition coming in the door means less ability to recover. And when you're doing marathon 2 hour sessions per day, stressing out about plateauing, and whatever else you have going on in the gym and in life and this stuff's paired with a calorie deficit... well...

Competitive athletes can have crazy workloads. But they eat to support it. And they take planned breaks to allow for recovery (periodization).

Who knows... maybe this isn't the case with you. But it's the case with most I encounter in your shoes. Maybe you're the one off who is eating more than you believe or expending less than you believe.

I do plan a recovery week about every 6 weeks or sooner if my body tells me I need one. During that week I continue martial arts, Pilates and may throw in a Yoga class but no lifting.

What else would you suggest? If I had to choose to either cut back my exercise or stay a little heavy, I would stay a little heavy. But I am hoping that there is another choice.

Do you think if I cut my calories a little more (say 500 deficit a day) and take a recovery week every 4 weeks that would work better?

It's very hard to say. Cutting calories would work if a) you're not overdoing it in the stress department and b) you're eating more than you think you are now. The fact that your periods get all out of whack though tells us that there's a whole lot going on in the hormonal department which could easily explain why you're gaining weight. WEIGHT... not fat. Just as how women tend to hold onto water around their time of the month.

Do you maintain your calories faithfully and consistently?

You're only lifting twice per week, so unless your coach has your doing absurd amounts of high intensity work... I doubt you're overdoing it in that department. But you have to look at the total pot of stressors you're placing on your body and ask, "is this too much." This is a very loose metric, but it seems in my experience when you have relatively light women dieting and doing more than an hour of exercise per day... things get wonky in terms of water flux and metabolic rate.

Granted, as I noted, it's very loose since it says nothing about intensity. If you're doing an hour of low level yoga, for example, obviously there's capacity to do more.

stroutman81

Hi
I'm just reporting back to say how glad I am that I found this thread, it's revolutionised my approach to exercise. I used to only really do cardio and abs work with occasional bouts of exercise DVDs that incorporated some resistance stuff but never used weights bigger than 1.5 kgs before and only ever used the same weights on the machines in the gym - I never tried to systematically increase the load before.

Since reading this around 4 weeks ago I've stepped up my weight training both at home and in the gym. I'm lifting way heavier weights than I've ever done before and am feeling great.
I've lost 1% of body fat, a couple of lbs in weight and an inch off my waist - and I've been on a goal of 1600 cals a day (which I've fairly reliably stuck to). I would never have believed that was possible.
My skinny jeans are getting loose :bigsmile:

oh and for women worried about looking butch - my shoulders have got slightly bigger but noone else would notice but me and everything else has got smaller or stayed the same so I can live with that
thanks again!

Congratulations and great work! Keep it up. And SPREAD THE GOOD WORD!

stroutman81

Hi Stroutman, I was wondering if I could ask you another question? Calorie related this time

So I've been maintaining these past few weeks, gradually increasing my calories from BMR (1350) to 1500 where I am now (50 calories a week). I've started a new job which involved 5.30am starts and being pretty busy in the day (care work) so the amount I've been exercising has gone down from 5-7 times a week (burning 350-500 calories) to 2-3 times a week (burning 350-450) with 1 hour of walking to work 4 times a week. I've been trying to increase my strength training in the way you suggested, so it's been lots of compound exercises - inverted rows, pushups, lunges etc, rather than exercises like bicep curls.

My problem is is that I'm pretty sure I'm gaining weight! It's definitely not muscle mass - I haven't been exercising enough for that, plus I can see the weight on me. My weight does fluctuate quite a lot but I haven't seen that 120 on the scale for a while now and instead it's been between 122 and 124. What's going on??

Way too many confounding variables to say:

new job
some bad days calorically speaking
new to true strength training which can lead to muscle gain easily in the novice
working on increasing calories which means it should be expected that you see some upticks in the scale

On and on it goes. Who's to say what's really happening. But I wouldn't be worrying about it if I were you.

There are 3500 calories in 1 lb of fat. That means to gain 1 lb of fat, hypothetically speaking, you'd need to be eating 3500 calories above and beyond what your body needs for maintenance. Say you "gained" 4 lbs. Do you think you really ate 14000 calories above and beyond what your body needs since we last spoke?

I'm guessing the answer is no way.

To which I say, then who cares? This isn't about some weight. It's about how you look.

Now if you're saying you feel like you're getting softer and softer, it could very well be water from bumping calories up gradually. But I highly doubt you're packing on fat unless you're not telling us about some SERIOUS binges that equate to 14000 calories.

I'm being very honest with my logging, I've had some bad days but I've made up for them calorie-wise the following days. Surely my maintenance level can't be lower than 1500 (I'm only 22)?? I was planning to continue increasing to 1600-1700 like MFP suggests!

Not unless you've something going on metabolically speaking. I'd say, with your exercise, your maintenance is someplace around 1700 assuming everything's working as it should be. And if you were driving your body into the ground too far with insufficient calories before, it may take your metabolism a bit to "catch up" to where things should be, which is the point of systematically bumping calories up.

I was wondering if you could have a quick look through my diary for me? If you have any suggestions they would be much appreciated. I've been quite busy recently with quite a hefty change in routine (and therefore sleeping patterns) and I've come off the contraceptive pill (apparently it takes a few months for your periods to come back - they haven't yet... sorry if TMI!) but those are the only things I can think of that have changed. I don't know if they make a difference...

Even more confounding variables which makes it impossible to say, "this is the problem."

And sorry, but I don't look at food diaries. I lay the foundation with nutrient recommendations and it's up to you (as in everyone) to fill in the foods.

Thanks for your response! And just to clarify... I'm not sure what you mean by driving my body into the ground.. in terms of deficits or time? I've been at a calorie deficit for about 6 months now, but after the first month or so they become moderate-small ones. Does that count? If it does and my metabolism "needs to catch up" does that mean I'll gain fat or just water weight/other?

What I mean is that for folks who either diet with large deficits or with moderate/small ones for extended periods of time, there's going to be a downregulation in metabolic rate. Now it's not going to be HUGE like some people presume... but it can be meaningful. Which means maintenance calories are going to be lower than what would be predicted given your stats.

This is why I don't suggest ramping calories up to maintenance like the flip of a switch. Rather, easing your way back to maintenance allows things to "catch up." But even then, you can see some fat gain in the process. But keep in mind the logic of the numbers I said to you in the last post. One step backwards for many steps forwards isn't a bad deal either - even if you were to gain a couple of pounds of fat. But you won't based on what I said to you in my previous post.