Relatively light people trying to get leaner

stroutman81

Wow, now I'm just confused, ha! I don't have a clue how much or little I should be eating, and how many calories I should be burning per day.

Can you tell I'm new?! O.O

Hmmm, where are you confused?

Better yet... read this. If you have specific questions after reading that... I'm all ears.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/172515-frantic-about-adhering-to-the-right-calorie-intake-read-t

chrisdavey

I do a bit of macronutrient cycling (high carb on workout days) but sometimes I wonder if I have really worked out hard enough to "deserve" these carbs. Your thoughts on this? My typical exercise sessions are either short HIIT (KB's usually) 15mins, fasted am cardio, 1hr resistance training focussing on compound lifts or 1.5hr mma sessions. I have specific peri workout nutrition for resistance training and mma (which is usually where my additional carbs come from) but don't worry about the HIIT or am cardio as it's so close to breakfast anyway.

Would you say a higher carb day is warranted for something like doing a lot of low intensity walking? Never really getting the heart rate up too high? Or would you say this is splitting hairs? :P Don't like to do the whole majoring in the minor details but all of this nutrient timing stuff is very interesting to me.

stroutman81

I do a bit of macronutrient cycling (high carb on workout days) but sometimes I wonder if I have really worked out hard enough to "deserve" these carbs. Your thoughts on this? My typical exercise sessions are either short HIIT (KB's usually) 15mins, fasted am cardio, 1hr resistance training focussing on compound lifts or 1.5hr mma sessions. I have specific peri workout nutrition for resistance training and mma (which is usually where my additional carbs come from) but don't worry about the HIIT or am cardio as it's so close to breakfast anyway.

Would you say a higher carb day is warranted for something like doing a lot of low intensity walking? Never really getting the heart rate up too high? Or would you say this is splitting hairs? :P Don't like to do the whole majoring in the minor details but all of this nutrient timing stuff is very interesting to me.

I'm not big on nutrient timing for the most part. The VAST majority of results is going to come from consistently hitting your daily calorie and nutrient targets.

But let's start with our definition of high carb. What is it?

Personally I've done "nutrient timing" when I did the Ultimate Diet 2.0. And that diet makes quite a bit of sense for those who it was intended for (lean folks looking to get leaner). But it's definitely not for everyone as it requires pretty meticulous nutrition and training and it's not easy since these variables are changing quite considerably over the course of each week.

I mean, in a nutshell, for reasons I won't get into here, that diet has you cycle from very low calories and carbs early in the week to high calories and carbs later in the week. And the training changes as well from high volume glycogen depleting to pure strength training. The primary reason is to enhance partitioning.

I wouldn't be worrying about upping my carb intake for walking or anything like that. Personally, I don't worry about cyclical dieting nowadays but I do make sure to get some carbs in around my training as that's when your body is most sensitive to using them and storing them in the right areas. Plus, it does cool things with squashing the protein breakdown that occurs after training.

chrisdavey

Cool, thanks for that.

I aim for 1.25g/lb BW of protein. Yesterday was a high carb day for me and my carbs = protein so also 1.25g/lb. 285g for me and that is 35% of total intake.

A lower day is normally around 150g intake (mainly breakfast and from low gi non processed sources).

So I think I am on the right track. Hit the cals target, hit the macros, carbs Peri workout and breakfast. Take measurements every 2 weeks and adjust. Sweet

hellen72

Thanks for your advise several pages back about my knee/VMO, I am doing a lot of those things already but will keep up with them!

Today I did some weights in the gym instead of my usual body pump class, I used about 8 diff machines and went for heavy (for me ) weight where I did between 5 and 10 reps. Because I havnt done weights in a while I am on low weights. On some of the machines if I did one weight I could do about 20 easily but if I went up to the next weight I could do less than 10 so I tended to go for the heavier weight and did 4-5sets of each.

I am doing this to try and help with my weight loss/tone up. How many times per week and for how long would be ideal? (bearing i mind that I expect my knee to be fixed soon so will be back to running 60mile weeks and wont beable to spend hours a day in the gym)

stroutman81

Cool, thanks for that.

I aim for 1.25g/lb BW of protein. Yesterday was a high carb day for me and my carbs = protein so also 1.25g/lb. 285g for me and that is 35% of total intake.

A lower day is normally around 150g intake (mainly breakfast and from low gi non processed sources).

At these intake levels, I wouldn't sweat it very much.

So I think I am on the right track. Hit the cals target, hit the macros, carbs Peri workout and breakfast. Take measurements every 2 weeks and adjust. Sweet

Right-o!

stroutman81

Thanks for your advise several pages back about my knee/VMO, I am doing a lot of those things already but will keep up with them!

Today I did some weights in the gym instead of my usual body pump class, I used about 8 diff machines and went for heavy (for me ) weight where I did between 5 and 10 reps. Because I havnt done weights in a while I am on low weights. On some of the machines if I did one weight I could do about 20 easily but if I went up to the next weight I could do less than 10 so I tended to go for the heavier weight and did 4-5sets of each.

I am doing this to try and help with my weight loss/tone up. How many times per week and for how long would be ideal? (bearing i mind that I expect my knee to be fixed soon so will be back to running 60mile weeks and wont beable to spend hours a day in the gym)

If you're doing all that running, I'd keep strength training to a minimum of say, 2 times per week. And I'd keep it very basic. Something like:

A squat variation
A single leg exericse
A pulling exercise
A pushing exerice

2-3 sets of 6-12 reps.

Mateo1985

Great stuff

stroutman81

Glad you were able to take something from it.

stroutman81

This thread generates a lot of emails where people ask me questions pertaining to the information presented. I thought I'd share part of a recent exchange since I don't believe it was covered in the thread already and I get these questions numerous times.

My questions begin here: If I'm to focus more on toning/growing my muscles with strength training, how much of a deficit should I still be working with (if any)? You said several times throughout the thread that in order to grow muscle most people need a surplus of calories, not a deficit...so should I start off just lifting with my current level of caloric intake, and just see IF I seem to need a few more calories?

That's a question I can't answer, unfortunately.

Your choices are:

1. Try losing more fat while maintaining the muscle you currently have.

2. Try maintaining the fat you currently have while adding more muscle.

Each require strength training. But ultimately it's a call you have to make on your own. If you feel you're becoming too thin, then maybe it's time to go on a muscle building phase. If you don't, maybe focus on getting rid of some more of the soft stuff while working to maintain the muscle you do have.

I don't want to be counterproductive and gain any more fat from not using all of the food I'm eating supposedly for muscle gain.

That's impossible. If you're in a calorie surplus, you will gain some fat. None of us partition all of our calories into muscle. Just as when we are in a deficit some of the weight we lose will be muscle, when we are in a surplus, some of the weight we gain will be fat. The goal is to optimize these ratios the best we can which is where proper nutrition and training come into play.

Look at it like this...

I've many female clients who've come to me looking to "tone up." Invariably most of them do in fact have some more fat to lose. So they're not left looking frail and soft once the fat is gone though... I'll have them strength train. In fact, strength training will be prioritized well ahead of "cardio." Once the fat is reduced to a satisfactory level, if they're still not happy, we'll go on a surplus phase in an attempt to add muscle.

Sure, fat will be gained during this surplus phase, but that's not the point. Once we add an appreciable level of muscle, we'll then diet the fat off again but this time we'll be maintaining a larger base of muscle than the base we had during the first deficit phase.

Very few of us reach our "goal weight" and are left content. More often than not it requires multiple phases of gaining muscle and losing fat to get things as "right" as our genetics are going to dictate. This isn't always the case... but I've found it to be the norm.

I think I'd still like to do about 30 minutes of cardio 3-5 times per week to try and accelerate the fat loss...so this is where I'm a little confused. Do I need to be eating with a deficit, at maintenance, or running at a slight surplus? Or should I just forget about doing cardio for the time being?

Even when my clients are in a surplus phase, I still have them doing cardio 3 times per week. It's not mandatory... but if for no other reason, I suggest it for the maintenance of cardiorespiratory health.

And in our original conversation, you recommended 2-3 full body exercise days. Would I consolidate the days in the example plan to make it a 2 day workout instead of a 4 day workout? Or would splitting it up over 4 days be better?

In the beginner who has never strength trained before, I suggest 2-3 full body days per week. If the goal is muscle gain, I'd shoot for 3. If it's fat loss... muscle maintenance doesn't require as much volume as does muscle growth, so you'd probably be fine sticking with 2.

Lastly, I have been thinking about getting a HRM to see how many calories I really do tend to burn during workout sessions and throughout the day; do you have any specific thoughts on HRMs? I would like to get one without a chest strap, but wonder how accurate those are in reality.

I don't get into all of that for my fat loss clients. I'm not a fan of worrying about how many calories you expend via exercise as the "process" I outlined in the calorie requirements thread will iron out any wrinkles.

I do use HRM for some of the athletes I work with but that's not for tracking energy expenditure at all.

pj_writer

I've been reading this thread with interest.

I normally do lots of cardio - treadmill (sometimes interval training) and cross trainer, sometimes swimming (I go through phases!). Plus plenty of work on my abs.

I mix this up with some workout DVDs (on non gym days) that have some squats and upper body stuff but I've only ever used 2kg weights.

I'm female and am not really trying to lose any weight at the moment, I'm pretty happy with my build (weighing around 122lb give or take at 5' 3") but would like to be leaner and more toned. Wouldn't we all I guess...
I also have intermittent back problems so would be keen to strengthen my core and protect my back.

I know nothing about weight training but this thread has made me want to find out more - but where to start? can anyone recommend a website that covers some of the basics for a beginner? Particularly one that would be useful for women as well as men.

Sorry if this info is already in the thread somewhere but it's a bit overwhelming.

I hope that the OP or someone else can help.
thanks

fittocycle

Bump for later reading! Great post!

fittocycle

I do have a question for you before I go out the door to work. I just turned 50, am 5'3" and weight 140. My comfy weight is around 130, which doesn't seem unreasonable for my height. Here's my issue-I was recently put on a beta blocker due to an extremely fast heart beat while exercising. It slows my heart rate down about 20 or more beats while working out. I'm also hypothyroid.
For workouts, I go to spin 3-4 days a week, weight train 2 days a week and go to a core class 1-2 days a week. MFP has me at 1200 calories a day. I try to eat very clean-no processed foods at all.

Is there anything I can do to jumpstart some weight loss? When I first went on the beta blocker a month ago, I gained 4-5 lbs!
Thank you so much for any imput. I'll check back later!

jacyrod

Well this is definitley so interesting and informative...all my life I've been a Yo-Yo/Crash dieter punishing myself for overeating and being super restrictive until I started MFP...This thread is very long so I was just curious if someone could check if I'm processing this correctly...if for me to mantian I need 1570 cals/day that is almost 12.5 cals/lb so MFP has me at the min 1200 cals/day which restricts me by 370cals...so it would take me what approx 9-10 days to loose a "real" lb?...not the up and down water weight I keep logging here for the past week...

I guess my Qn is when do I know it's real?...guess at this point it seems I just have to go by my BF % instead of numbers? It's a little frustrating bc I want to be in the lower end weight and BF% ranges for my height for the simple fact that I always go on vacation in summer and tend to want to really take a vacation w/out worrying about well anything calories included.

Also I usually go to the gym about 3 days a week and do cardio, strength training and abs all in one session, so in total I spend at least 2 hrs if not more at the gym...should I be doing this in separate days/sessions? Sometimes I go and do Yoga and Zumba in addition to weights and I have also started to use my Wii for cardio specifically the dancing games so should...I guess I'm just confused as to how much is to much for any given day or week, should I be cooling it on the Cardio side and pumping up the weights part to be more effective in my goal? Thanks, for all previous post and any extra pointers/advice I can get from anyone on this -Jacy

pj_writer

I've been reading this thread with interest.

I normally do lots of cardio - treadmill (sometimes interval training) and cross trainer, sometimes swimming (I go through phases!). Plus plenty of work on my abs.

I mix this up with some workout DVDs (on non gym days) that have some squats and upper body stuff but I've only ever used 2kg weights.

I'm female and am not really trying to lose any weight at the moment, I'm pretty happy with my build (weighing around 122lb give or take at 5' 3") but would like to be leaner and more toned. Wouldn't we all I guess...
I also have intermittent back problems so would be keen to strengthen my core and protect my back.

I know nothing about weight training but this thread has made me want to find out more - but where to start? can anyone recommend a website that covers some of the basics for a beginner? Particularly one that would be useful for women as well as men.

Sorry if this info is already in the thread somewhere but it's a bit overwhelming.

I hope that the OP or someone else can help.
thanks

OK I had time to do some googling so am answering my own question LOL! but found this site which seems very useful.
http://exercise.about.com/cs/exerciseworkouts/a/weight101.htm

if anyone else has more recommendations though that would be great, the more info I can get the better. I'm definitely interested in putting more effort into this sort of exercise... turns out I was doing more than I thought already though as the DVDs I use have quite a lot of these exercises on them. Maybe I need bigger weights!

oh yes - that brings up a new question actually... what sort of weight of dumbells would you recommend for a reasonably fit/strong female to be using if newish to weight lifting?
I have 1.5kg ones at home but I think they are too light. What should I be trying to build up to?

brity77

Bump! Great info!!

chrisdavey

two of the best beginners lifting websites are:
http://startingstrength.com/ and http://stronglifts.com/.

All information applies equally to women as it does for men

an adjustable barbell or dumbell set is required so that you can progressively up the weights are you reach the desired sets and reps.

pj_writer

two of the best beginners lifting websites are:
http://startingstrength.com/ and http://stronglifts.com/.

All information applies equally to women as it does for men

an adjustable barbell or dumbell set is required so that you can progressively up the weights are you reach the desired sets and reps.

thanks!

cris12

Steve, I was wondering what your thoughts are on what you could call the ''right'' amount of exercise. I asked you some questions earlier in this thread and at that time I was working out every other day, and after a ''food slip'' I decided to start working out everyday. I realize I made the choice just to try to recover those pounds I gained but I figured it wouldn't do me any harm to be more active than I was. I do strength training every other day, followed by a little bit of cardio, and then cardio every other day in between. As for resting, I took a rest day yesterday because of time constraints. Anyhoo, the question is, should I really be working out everyday? I know the lighter you are the harder you need to work towards losing weight/toning up.

Also, when strength training, I saw this nifty polar HRM tracks the amount of time you should spend in between exercises based on HR. I usually rest for 1 min. in between sets, but sometimes decide to skip the minute altogether to save time and keep myself moving. Not sure if my assumptions are correct and if this is harming my muscles. Actually, this is probably relevant. I mix and match sets, so if I'm for example doing a set of dumbbell raises, I'll follow it with a set of push ups, so I'm still giving the muscle group a rest by working on another.

dwallace27

I really appreciate this info!! I am 5' 2" 122 lbs and trying soooo hard to get back to 115lbs. I've been working hardcore doing mostly weight training with a trainer for about 3 months now and have not dropped a single pound. I am starting to get really discouraged. I have started incorporating more cardio because I am not seeing a change. So which is more important for us smaller people who only have a little to loose? Focus more on cardio or weight training, or a balance of both??