Relatively light people trying to get leaner
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emmadavies127 wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »Great post! Thanks! I am in a similar situation. I have been running for about 2 years -- and after an overuse injury decided to do a little more cross training. I started weight-lifting, swimming and biking on my non-running days. After 5 months I have gained 3 pounds! It's very discouraging. Luckily I did do a body composition analysis before I started -- and look forward to comparing before/after results. I know I have toned so I should have a lower body fat %. I tend to be a slave to the scale but am trying desperately to quit using it until my 6 month assessment....next month.
Thanks for the great info!
You're very welcome.
If I were to make one suggestion... if you're a runner logging significant mileage, on your non-running days I'd either be relaxing or strength training. Don't do more cardio. High volumes of cardio (distance running, swimming, biking, circuit training, etc) can do wonky things to lean women trying to get leaner.
Plus, you're interested in optimizing your body composition, obviously. Being lean is a function of fat loss AND muscle gain/maintenance. Strength training is what facilitates the latter, yet very few people prioritize it and/or do it correctly.
Is strength training with your own body weight a good idea. Insanity type stuff as I can't get to gym.
Everything is context dependent. The important context that's missing here with your question is a) what is your training experience and b) what is your goal?
Body weight training can be a great form of exercise for certain people with certain goals.
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stroutman81 wrote: »more questions...
so, I eat healthy most days. A normal day is....Oatmeal/whole wheat english muffin with pb or hardboiled egg for b'fast-- almonds or fruit for snack -- sandwich or salad with fruit for lunch -- greek yogurt for snack -- grilled chicken for dinner/brown rice/ green beans. I am 41 :noway: 5'3" and 130 lbs (hoping to get back to 120). MFP says I should eat around 1250 calories plus exercise calories. How do you count weight lifting? Some days I can exercise 1000+ calories but don't feel like eating till the next day. Do I deprive myself? Very frustrated -- too much to take in -- there must be an easier way :bigsmile: .
Did I mention I'm an accountant -- and all this gray area does not work for me. I need someone to say -- do this....eat this....and you'll get the desired results. Not asking much....right?:blushing:
Haha, you're fun.
Unfortunately I'm not your guy. I don't give rigid guidelines to follow because in my experience.... it simply doesn't work well. People need to take the fundamentals and apply them in a customized way to themselves.
What are the fundamentals? Well to name a few....
1. Set calories according to your goal. A deficit for weight loss, equal for maintenance, and a surplus for weight gain
2. Set protein at approximately 1 gram per pound of goal body weight. There are 4 calories in each gram of protein.
3. Set fat at approximately 30% of total calories. There are 9 calories for each gram of fat.
4. Eat 4-6 servings of fibrous veggies per day. Calorie content of veggies varies depending on the type... but a ballpark might be 20-40 per serving.
5. Eat 2-4 servings of fruit per day. Like veggies, calorie content varies here. A ballpark might be 60 or so.
I don't use MFP for anything but the community and helping people. I'm not sure how all their calculators work. I can tell you this though... I'm not a fan of estimating calorie expenditure. It's something I've never done with my clients or myself. I take a much simpler route.
I pick a reasonable estimate of calorie maintenance assuming sane amounts of exercise. What's a sane amount of exercise? About an hour per day of moderate to above moderate activity. Weight lifting, cardio, etc. Maintenance works out to be roughly 14-16 calories per pound.
If you're very lean or very overweight... or if you feel you have a bit of a sluggish metabolism... you might need to adjust this starting point. In your case though, I'd go with 15 given your level of activity. Remember, this isn't a contract you're signing here so there's no need to make a big deal about it.
130 x 15 = 1950
From there, it's a matter of creating your deficit. I generally like a deficit of 30% or so. This would put you at about 1400 calories or so. If you were my client, that'd be your initial daily calorie target.
Then it'd be a matter of filling in those calories with the "right mixture" of nutrients.
On the protein front, 1 gram per pound of goal body weight would put you at 120 grams. 120 grams of protein equates to 480 calories, leaving you with 920 left to "fill."
Good sources of protein include chicken and turkey breast, fish, lean ground beef, lean cuts of steak, pork tenderloin, nuts, eggs, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, protein powders, etc.
On the fat front, 30% of total calories comes to 420. Since there are 9 calories in each gram of fat, this would equate to 47 or so grams of fat. You'd be left with 500 calories left to fill.
Good sources of fat include fish oils, flax, fish, olive oil, avocados, nuts, natural peanut butter, etc
If we go with our ballparked numbers for veggies and fruits, we'd have 130ish calories coming from veggies and 180ish coming from fruit. We'd be left with 190 calories left to fill.
This final allotment is your freebie. Fill it with whatever you'd like.
Just remember this is a process. You don't get to sign a contract and expect things to work indefinitely. The process should look *something* like this:
1. Estimate total energy expenditure. (this is where I start with the 14-16 cals per pound)
2. Set your caloric intake at a level above or below the above estimation depending on whether you want to gain or lose weight, respectively.
3. Track your measurements, weight, body fat, pictures, etc every 2-4 weeks.
4. Based on the trend you’re seeing with your tracking, adjust your intake accordingly.
5. Rinse and repeat steps 2-4 until you a) reach your goal or b) your goals change.
You're an accountant, so you must like numbers. Therefore you must like this post.
I really like how this guy thinks and feel that this thread needs to be bumped. Haven't read much of it but I like what I have read so far.
Well thanks. "This guy" appreciates that you appreciate some of his philosophies. 0 -
Hiya, Steve. I wasn't on MFP when this thread started, but I'm so glad Leena bumped it. Why is it not a sticky? Great read. I like reading Lyle McDonald, too, and that plagiarism bit is too bad. His style is so distinctive, if you were going to rip someone off, wouldn't it be logical to go after someone with a little less attitude? Anywhoo, if you are still willing/able to entertain specific questions, I have a lean woman too much cardio wonkiness question.0
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Take it from me - I went from weighing 105 to 109 now. This transformation took 4-5 months of HEAVY lifting.
I used to do endless cardio and low calorie eating thinking that is what made me "thin". Then I realized I don't want to be "thin", I want to be firm, muscular, athletic and in great shape. I have reduced my body fat approx. 2-3% during this process, yet I weigh more. I still fit into the clothes I did 4 pounds lighter. I look 10000x better. I have no - zero - cellulite on the back of my legs now. I went from being able to do 75 pounds on the leg press to 155 pounds now. My deadlift went from 20 pounds to 50 pounds now. My bicep curls went from 5 pounds each arm to 15 pounds now. I see actual muscle definition. I eat way more now too!
My friends, weight lifting made my body look SO much better. I do not look bulky or big, I look smaller, tighter and athletic. Give it a shot!
Love your post and it is what my goal is as well.
To the OP...so I am 5' 3", 136, my GUT is 37", and will be 50yo in a couple of weeks. I am reading up on all of this as I do fit your profile.
I have not started heavy lifting yet. I was doing the typical cardio and strength training classes. I am reading "Strong Lifts for Strong Women".
I have Morton's neuroma, some PF on my left foot, tight calves, tight achilles, & weak ankle strength at the moment.
My question is do you have to be "100% fit" to jump into heavy lifting? I think that is what is a little unnerving for me. I am afraid of injury to be honest.
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Hiya, Steve. I wasn't on MFP when this thread started, but I'm so glad Leena bumped it. Why is it not a sticky? Great read. I like reading Lyle McDonald, too, and that plagiarism bit is too bad. His style is so distinctive, if you were going to rip someone off, wouldn't it be logical to go after someone with a little less attitude? Anywhoo, if you are still willing/able to entertain specific questions, I have a lean woman too much cardio wonkiness question.
Do they do stickies here now? If so, I'm offended I didn't make it onto one! There were some epic threads back in the day... this being one of them. Oh well. But yeah, I'm still around... albeit much less than I used to be. Feel free to fire away with your question and I'll see if I have any insight.0 -
Hi
This is a great thread! Thank you for writing.
Question: what goal would you recommend for someone who's at say a normal BMI (22), but has a high body fat percentage (30%+)? Better to build muscle or focus on fat loss?0 -
Well, maybe they are sticky-equivalents... "Announcements" or some such. Thanks for entertaining a Q. Here it is: How much cardio does it take to approach the wonky zone? I do <1 hr/day. Having run 50-60mi/week in my 20’s & 30’s, it seems like a modest amount of cardio to me, but I'm often in a modest deficit, too, so I wonder. Specifics below. Hope it's not TMI. Thx again!
Goal: maintain **
Stats: 5’7”, 115lb, age 50, 15% BF per Navy formula
ST 3x/week: 3 sets body weight core (pushups, planks, hikes) + 3 sets/15 reps curls, lat extensions & rows with hand weights. Do it at home. Not much of a gym rat. Need to get a heavier hand weight.
Cardio: 3x/week sprint intervals (8 of them) in a 4 mi route (1st mi walk @12 min/mi & last mi run @8 min/mi) + 3x/week walk 4mi @12 min/mi + 1 day rest. I prioritize upper body ST because I have decent weight bearing for maintaining bone mass with cardio. Running has always been more for my head than my body, though. I need the time alone outside.
Diet: TDEE~1750, roughly equal macro kcal with at least 100g protein (mostly chicken) and 25-30g fiber (mostly legumes). Fat is mostly nuts & seeds, little saturated, but I am an omnivore and will eat anything. I “budget” 150 kcal/day for alcohol but drink it only on weekends. E.g. at maintenance, I eat 1600 daily and drink 1000kcal wine over the weekend. I eat 1350 when I need a deficit to stay in my maintenance range, which is a lot of the time.
** I flirt with the idea of trying to gain 5lb muscle/bone, but honestly I don’t know how much effort it would take. No menopause signs yet, and building bone while I’ve got the progesterone seems like a good investment.
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SwankyTomato wrote: »Take it from me - I went from weighing 105 to 109 now. This transformation took 4-5 months of HEAVY lifting.
I used to do endless cardio and low calorie eating thinking that is what made me "thin". Then I realized I don't want to be "thin", I want to be firm, muscular, athletic and in great shape. I have reduced my body fat approx. 2-3% during this process, yet I weigh more. I still fit into the clothes I did 4 pounds lighter. I look 10000x better. I have no - zero - cellulite on the back of my legs now. I went from being able to do 75 pounds on the leg press to 155 pounds now. My deadlift went from 20 pounds to 50 pounds now. My bicep curls went from 5 pounds each arm to 15 pounds now. I see actual muscle definition. I eat way more now too!
My friends, weight lifting made my body look SO much better. I do not look bulky or big, I look smaller, tighter and athletic. Give it a shot!
Love your post and it is what my goal is as well.
To the OP...so I am 5' 3", 136, my GUT is 37", and will be 50yo in a couple of weeks. I am reading up on all of this as I do fit your profile.
I have not started heavy lifting yet. I was doing the typical cardio and strength training classes. I am reading "Strong Lifts for Strong Women".
I have Morton's neuroma, some PF on my left foot, tight calves, tight achilles, & weak ankle strength at the moment.
My question is do you have to be "100% fit" to jump into heavy lifting? I think that is what is a little unnerving for me. I am afraid of injury to be honest.
In most cases, you lift to get fit. It's not about being fit to lift.
Of course you have to be smart about it. Work with your weaknesses and injuries patterns. And it's best to err on the side of caution... sort of "grow into" a particular exercise and rep range. What I mean by that is...
Let's suppose you're shooting for 8 reps per set in a given exercise. If you're new to the exercise - and strength training in general - you don't want to necessarily jump right to a load that really challenges you for 8. Rather you should take your time. Build a foundation of movement proficiency. Err on the side of conservative with your loading. As you become more competent, you can increase loading over time and, again, "grow into" the target rep range... eventually reaching a point where your loads are actually challenging you.
Hopefully that makes sense.
But there's no reason you shouldn't start now.
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stroutman81 wrote: »
In most cases, you lift to get fit. It's not about being fit to lift.
Of course you have to be smart about it. Work with your weaknesses and injuries patterns. And it's best to err on the side of caution... sort of "grow into" a particular exercise and rep range. What I mean by that is...
Let's suppose you're shooting for 8 reps per set in a given exercise. If you're new to the exercise - and strength training in general - you don't want to necessarily jump right to a load that really challenges you for 8. Rather you should take your time. Build a foundation of movement proficiency. Err on the side of conservative with your loading. As you become more competent, you can increase loading over time and, again, "grow into" the target rep range... eventually reaching a point where your loads are actually challenging you.
Hopefully that makes sense.
But there's no reason you shouldn't start now.
Yes, makes good sense to me. Thank you.
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I've probably replied here at some point in the last few years... I just wanted to let you know your words are always appreciated, Steve! xxo0
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Bump, will reply later 0
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in_the_stars wrote: »I've probably replied here at some point in the last few years... I just wanted to let you know your words are always appreciated, Steve! xxo
Thanks very much! I appreciate the conversations... so it's a two way street for sure.0 -
Great thread, sums up exactly where I am right now. Im a 20 year old 5'6" male and weigh 147 lbs. I started my journey at 190 lbs. Currently I am trying to lose body fat, especially on my stomach. I think I am about 16-18% body fat. I lift three days a week and do about 25 min of hiit cardio a week. I believe my maintenance is around 2200 calories. How large of a deficit should I use in order to drop body fat and retain as much muscle as possible? I currently eat about 1700 a day0
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Great thread, sums up exactly where I am right now. Im a 20 year old 5'6" male and weigh 147 lbs. I started my journey at 190 lbs. Currently I am trying to lose body fat, especially on my stomach. I think I am about 16-18% body fat. I lift three days a week and do about 25 min of hiit cardio a week. I believe my maintenance is around 2200 calories. How large of a deficit should I use in order to drop body fat and retain as much muscle as possible? I currently eat about 1700 a day
Of course it's relative to your goals, but I'd contemplate whether or not more fat loss is the logical next step in your case. It's tough without seeing pictures... how are you assessing your bf%? At such a low weight, I'd personally be concerned about getting too skinny... regardless of body comp. Remember... there are two sides of the body comp coin. You can optimize it with fat loss AND muscle gain.
Just tossing that out there pretty generally. It may or may not apply to your situation.
If fat loss is the goal though, without knowing more, I'd be starting you in the 1700 neighborhood.
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I'm 5 foot 2 and female
58.8 kg
Dexa body fat % was 27.6 % a week ago
Exercise 4 intense cardio, 2-3 (heavy) weights
Eating weekly average of 2100 gross calories to lose body fat
Started at 66 kg on August 1st eating 1850 gross calories, then after a couple of months upped my calories to 1950 calories. Christmas time upped my calories to 2000 and now for the past few weeks I'm losing body fat eating a weekly gross average of 2100!! So I have been upping my calories as I lose more weight than what others are doing (decreasing calories)
I'm amazed that I can eat more than some 6 feet plus males and lose fat!
I'm looking pretty lean. Legs and arms defined. Body is toned and streamlined. Looking like an athlete now. Goal is 25 % body fat. The last couple of months my fat has been coming off my lower tummy. I can see it in photos and measurements. I still have some fat on the top part of my tummy I want to lose.
PS great thread thanks, some useful info here! Thanks!0 -
I know this thread is a couple 'days old now but I was really interested by what you've pointed out here and wanted to ask your advice if you're willing to give it @stroutman81? I'm 5'5.5 and I've been stuck at 136 pounds for a long time, although all previous dieting attempts have been pretty much unsuccessful after a week or so (usually due to my lack of trust/motivation as to whether the plan will actually work...!) The last time I measured my body fat, I was around 22%.
I've just started to count my calories again and am shooting for around 1450 daily - I've also (rejoined) the gym and am starting HIIT cardio for 30 mins 4-5 times a week followed up with 30 mins of strength training. My aim is to slim down to around 120 pounds - I'm not too interested in being muscular; a very slim toned look is my goal. Considering all of this, do you think I'm on the right track? Thanks...!0 -
47Jacqueline wrote: »I finally got it through my thick head of why-your-goal-weight-is-stupid. lol.
I'm 5'3" 127-128lb and my head kept saying 125 - for YEARS! WW kept telling me 128 and on MFP, I seem to maintain pretty well where I am. Also due to lots of cardio/strength training classes including Aqua fitness and land, my clothing size is a 4 that is comfortably loose (not like I need a smaller size though) and I'm sort of busty so I'm not a little waif. I also have visible muscle structure that I think is really cool.
It's a relief, not to have to constantly be trying to reach a certain number.
This sounds so very similar to me! 47 years old, 5'2.5" and 130 lbs. (history of being very small naturally, just by making good choices. Not because I was anorexic or anything. A lot of it is genetics as one side of my family just produces tiny females with tiny bone structures, etc. I didn't hit 110 lbs until I was nearly 30, but after 30 and kids the weight went up up up. Then after a year on MFP I got down to the un-maintainable 112 lbs, which I did manage to maintain for a year).
I also did a lot of cardio/metabolic type training to lose the weight when I was first here. It took me a year to go from 156-112. Then four years to be back to 130. I've been obsessing about 120-125 for a couple of years now. Like the quote above, I'm a size 4, a bit busty, and have a bit of muscle, but also a bit too much ab fat. (Pretty much my entire bf percentage sits on my abs! Or at least what is not in my bust ha ha.) As best I can tell, according to the calipers I have about 23% bodyfat as of this morning. So reality is, I'm not doing too bad. If it wasn't for those nasty muffin tops! But getting my mind around the fact that 130 lbs might be an okay weight for me is tough!!
I am so glad I found this thread. I no longer feel like the only one struggling with these concepts. I am currently in the process of re assessing my goals to see where exactly I am headed. I want to be able to maintain a fit body, and I know that the weight training is so important, especially with my family history of tiny bones, etc. But I am not really into being so obsessive that I never eat anything tasty or that I spend all my leisure time working out. I already feel like I am spending a lot of time with working out at my current 45 minutes or so 6 days a week. And food is so important to family life, socializing, etc that I want to be reasonable. I like to work in treats, and the occasional glass of wine or margarita. So it is a matter of balancing expectations and the willingness to do what it takes to be leaner.
This is so much a mind game, as the scale is absolutely crazy from day to day and even week to week, and the ideal weight calculators give such a range, I'm not sure what I should be doing! (Some give a weight goal as low as 104 lbs, and some up to 136 lbs!!!)
Currently I will continue strength training--trying to lift heavy, for my strength--and eating close to maintenance, and monitoring closely. (Finding the maintenance number in itself will be a NSV). I'm going to read all this thread as I have time, and check back for answers, since most of the questions are so similar to my own situation.
OP THANKS FOR THIS! And I'm open to any suggestions that you might have.0 -
I'm watching this thread for information. I'm 45, 135 lbs, 5ft 2". Been heavy lifting for 4 months and my measurements go down and then up again. Been losing the same darn 5lbs forever.0
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Hi, I've been reading through this thread over the past week or so and think it's absolutely brilliant - it really should be a sticky!
I've got a couple of questions which I'd be grateful if you could advise on. I'm 5'3, weigh 108lbs (I've always been between 103-114lbs and have a very small frame but am pear-shaped so my bottom half is a couple of sizes larger than my top half which is quite bony) and seem to be around 18% body fat (although this is according to body fat scales). I've been doing a strength training routine for about a year now, which was originally designed by a PT and split into 3 days per week - one day for arms (biceps/triceps), one day for legs/glutes and one day for chest/back/shoulders. Each takes around an hour, and I do 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps of each exercise (8-9 exercises per day, split equally between the stated body parts).
My goal is to lose some fat on my thigh area, and start to build some muscle all over - so ultimately I'd like to put on a few lbs/reduce my body fat percentage slightly but I'm more worried about how I look than the scale. I'm in no rush and have pretty good willpower, so am happy to do this gradually. I have recently upped my calories to circa 1700-1800 and am getting around 100g of protein per day, so I think this is about right to maintain and potentially recomp, or be slightly above maintenance and hopefully do a clean bulk. It's only been a couple of weeks so far, but my weight has stayed between 107-108lbs (I weigh daily and don't seem to fluctuate at all). Please can you advise whether you think my approach re: calories is about right in order to recomp (or if you think I should take an entirely different approach)?
With regards to my training routine, I'm starting to think it would be beneficial for me to add in some more leg work as I only work them once a week currently, and am wondering if having a whole session dedicated to arms is overkill. I don't want to change up my routine too much as it works well for me (i.e. I do some cardio DVDs etc on the other days and am gradually seeing some good results in terms of my muscles becoming more and more prominent - I know this could be newbie gains but it's been a year now so I think it is slow progress despite my slight deficit - I'd been eating around 1300 calories for the majority of the past year). Essentially, my arms day currently consists of:
- standing barbell bicep curls
- hammer curls with rope on cable machine
- barbell bicep curls on cable machine, superset with hammer curls with dumbbells
- tricep dips
- skull crushers
- bar tricep push downs on cable machine
- lying down with a barbell above me, then lowering down to my forehead and back up
Apologies - I'm not sure of all the technical terms!
My legs day consists of:
- leg press
- stiff leg deadlifts
- circuits on the cable machine: donkey kicks, abductor raises and anterior raises
- floating bridge on smiff machine - with barbell on hips and raising up and down
Sorry this is becoming very long, but do you think I should cut down my arms exercises by half (e.g. just barbell curls, hammer curls, tricep dips and skull crushers) and then use the time regained to do some leg work (I'm thinking squats and lunges) so that I'm then doing 2 leg days a week?
Any thoughts would be very gratefully received as always Thank you again for all the help you've given us so far! 0 -
Bump0
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Bumping for reading later 0
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stroutman81 wrote: »I have been there. Eating less than the recommended amount of calories will eventually stop working.
And that's the kicker really. Most of these people, primarily women, start out with too low of calories and they realize relatively easy results. Of course. Your body is reactive so it simply hasn't caught on yet. Once it does though, things tend to come to a screeching halt.
You might be asking yourself, "Well who cares... results are results and I'll deal with plateaus when the arise."
The problem is, the psychology of a "dieter" sucks in general. Once they back themselves into a corner by consuming too few calories and hit a wall.... the stuff they need to do to move to the next level directly opposes their psychology. It typically means bumping calories up. Reducing some of the endless cardio many of these folks tend to be doing. Adding strength training into the mix since for some reason, nobody ever seems to include that initially. It means preparing yourself to possibly add a few pounds.
All these things sound like hell to the psychology of the typical dieter.
So what we're left with are people who struggle for ridiculous periods of time. Some will become obsessive and this is where eating disorders are born. Others will remain determined and sit where they are in terms of weight and body composition never really changing. Others will go down the yo-yo path where they give up for a while only to return using the same flawed tactics next month.
This doesn't really make sense to me... Why would eating less than the recommended calories stop working? If you're still eating at a deficit, you're bound to lose weight. If it's all about CICO (mentioned all throughout this thread), then it wouldnt' matter if it's less than recommended...as long as it's less than your maintenance.0 -
I'm 5 foot 2 and female
58.8 kg
Dexa body fat % was 27.6 % a week ago
Exercise 4 intense cardio, 2-3 (heavy) weights
Eating weekly average of 2100 gross calories to lose body fat
Started at 66 kg on August 1st eating 1850 gross calories, then after a couple of months upped my calories to 1950 calories. Christmas time upped my calories to 2000 and now for the past few weeks I'm losing body fat eating a weekly gross average of 2100!! So I have been upping my calories as I lose more weight than what others are doing (decreasing calories)
I'm amazed that I can eat more than some 6 feet plus males and lose fat!
I'm looking pretty lean. Legs and arms defined. Body is toned and streamlined. Looking like an athlete now. Goal is 25 % body fat. The last couple of months my fat has been coming off my lower tummy. I can see it in photos and measurements. I still have some fat on the top part of my tummy I want to lose.
PS great thread thanks, some useful info here! Thanks!
Good for you! It's always refreshing to hear from folks who are flexible with their approach. They experiment in the name of finding out what's optimal for them. And yes, finding the sweet spot, calorically speaking, is an individual experiment that we all most go through.
As if once the sweet spot is found, it is and always will be the sweet spot... which is far from true.
But the point is, most people seem to want to slash calories ridiculously low right off the bat and then troubleshoot from there. That never made much sense to me. My modus operandi has always been to experiment by eating as much food as possible while still triggering a sustainable and sensible rate of weight loss over time.
Cut as necessary.
This makes a lot more sense than bashing your body with a massive deficit, which poses a greater risk to your body for muscle loss. Not to mention it tends to throw everything else out of whack too... from a systemic stress standpoint. Not that it won't lead to weight loss... but if weight loss is all that mattered this would be a pretty easy game.0 -
I know this thread is a couple 'days old now but I was really interested by what you've pointed out here and wanted to ask your advice if you're willing to give it @stroutman81? I'm 5'5.5 and I've been stuck at 136 pounds for a long time, although all previous dieting attempts have been pretty much unsuccessful after a week or so (usually due to my lack of trust/motivation as to whether the plan will actually work...!) The last time I measured my body fat, I was around 22%.
I've just started to count my calories again and am shooting for around 1450 daily - I've also (rejoined) the gym and am starting HIIT cardio for 30 mins 4-5 times a week followed up with 30 mins of strength training. My aim is to slim down to around 120 pounds - I'm not too interested in being muscular; a very slim toned look is my goal. Considering all of this, do you think I'm on the right track? Thanks...!
Sorry, I'm very late on this reply. If you're still checking in...
Calorie intake seems to be in the realm of what I'd consider acceptable. I'd sooner start at something like 1600-1700 and adjust as necessary over time. But still, 1450 isn't unreasonable in general for someone your size.
In terms of activity, I wouldn't personally suggest HIIT that frequently. Maybe a session or two each week... but I just don't see a point in slamming yourself with that frequency right off the bat. I'm more of the mindset of coaxing fat off by letting a sensible diet do its thing while you do what you need to do to preserve as much muscle as possible (eating sufficient protein and doing some resistance training a handful of times each week).
I've gotten more women lean without ANY cardio than you'd believe. And I certainly don't prioritize it when I do rely on it. My hierarchy of importance is almost always nutrition, then training, and than cardio as needed as a distance third.
And being a small female... I wouldn't be to concerned being "muscular." You're going for toned, which means you need to do what's necessary to preserve the muscle you have. It's what will give your body a little definition/shape once the fat is gone.0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »I have been there. Eating less than the recommended amount of calories will eventually stop working.
And that's the kicker really. Most of these people, primarily women, start out with too low of calories and they realize relatively easy results. Of course. Your body is reactive so it simply hasn't caught on yet. Once it does though, things tend to come to a screeching halt.
You might be asking yourself, "Well who cares... results are results and I'll deal with plateaus when the arise."
The problem is, the psychology of a "dieter" sucks in general. Once they back themselves into a corner by consuming too few calories and hit a wall.... the stuff they need to do to move to the next level directly opposes their psychology. It typically means bumping calories up. Reducing some of the endless cardio many of these folks tend to be doing. Adding strength training into the mix since for some reason, nobody ever seems to include that initially. It means preparing yourself to possibly add a few pounds.
All these things sound like hell to the psychology of the typical dieter.
So what we're left with are people who struggle for ridiculous periods of time. Some will become obsessive and this is where eating disorders are born. Others will remain determined and sit where they are in terms of weight and body composition never really changing. Others will go down the yo-yo path where they give up for a while only to return using the same flawed tactics next month.
This doesn't really make sense to me... Why would eating less than the recommended calories stop working? If you're still eating at a deficit, you're bound to lose weight. If it's all about CICO (mentioned all throughout this thread), then it wouldnt' matter if it's less than recommended...as long as it's less than your maintenance.
You're confusing fat loss and weight loss.
Calorie deficits will lead to tissue loss. In many cases, though... especially in ones involving relatively lean women... water can completely mask fat loss over the course of weeks and even months. And overstressing your body the way many rigid dieters do (especially when it's a hodge podge of excessive intense cardio, excessively large deficits and restrictive nutrition, lots of anxiety / emotional stress about food and body, etc... water can do A LOT of masking.
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Other posters... I know I skipped over some longer posts. I'll be back to address them.
Thanks for all the great discussions!0 -
Nice to see you back. I have missed reading your wonderful posts. 0
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47Jacqueline wrote: »I finally got it through my thick head of why-your-goal-weight-is-stupid. lol.
I'm 5'3" 127-128lb and my head kept saying 125 - for YEARS! WW kept telling me 128 and on MFP, I seem to maintain pretty well where I am. Also due to lots of cardio/strength training classes including Aqua fitness and land, my clothing size is a 4 that is comfortably loose (not like I need a smaller size though) and I'm sort of busty so I'm not a little waif. I also have visible muscle structure that I think is really cool.
It's a relief, not to have to constantly be trying to reach a certain number.
This sounds so very similar to me! 47 years old, 5'2.5" and 130 lbs. (history of being very small naturally, just by making good choices. Not because I was anorexic or anything. A lot of it is genetics as one side of my family just produces tiny females with tiny bone structures, etc. I didn't hit 110 lbs until I was nearly 30, but after 30 and kids the weight went up up up. Then after a year on MFP I got down to the un-maintainable 112 lbs, which I did manage to maintain for a year).
I also did a lot of cardio/metabolic type training to lose the weight when I was first here. It took me a year to go from 156-112. Then four years to be back to 130. I've been obsessing about 120-125 for a couple of years now. Like the quote above, I'm a size 4, a bit busty, and have a bit of muscle, but also a bit too much ab fat. (Pretty much my entire bf percentage sits on my abs! Or at least what is not in my bust ha ha.) As best I can tell, according to the calipers I have about 23% bodyfat as of this morning. So reality is, I'm not doing too bad. If it wasn't for those nasty muffin tops! But getting my mind around the fact that 130 lbs might be an okay weight for me is tough!!
I am so glad I found this thread. I no longer feel like the only one struggling with these concepts. I am currently in the process of re assessing my goals to see where exactly I am headed. I want to be able to maintain a fit body, and I know that the weight training is so important, especially with my family history of tiny bones, etc. But I am not really into being so obsessive that I never eat anything tasty or that I spend all my leisure time working out. I already feel like I am spending a lot of time with working out at my current 45 minutes or so 6 days a week. And food is so important to family life, socializing, etc that I want to be reasonable. I like to work in treats, and the occasional glass of wine or margarita. So it is a matter of balancing expectations and the willingness to do what it takes to be leaner.
This is so much a mind game, as the scale is absolutely crazy from day to day and even week to week, and the ideal weight calculators give such a range, I'm not sure what I should be doing! (Some give a weight goal as low as 104 lbs, and some up to 136 lbs!!!)
Currently I will continue strength training--trying to lift heavy, for my strength--and eating close to maintenance, and monitoring closely. (Finding the maintenance number in itself will be a NSV). I'm going to read all this thread as I have time, and check back for answers, since most of the questions are so similar to my own situation.
OP THANKS FOR THIS! And I'm open to any suggestions that you might have.
My immediate thought is to put the scale away. The number is playing to big a role in your thinking and well being. I know it's not what you really want to hear, but you need to learn to trust yourself without the number judging you the way you let it.
Focus on the process - training and nutrition - and have faith that it'll work. If it doesn't, it's no reason to get bent out of shape. The whole backbone of this process we're all working with is to apply a system to our bodies and see how it responds after a number of weeks. If the response isn't sufficient, we make slight adjustments to ease our way closer to where we need to be. And that's that. I know it's not sexy, but it's sustainable. And it allows for flexibility and logic. It helps us live in the 6 inches in front of our faces rather than being a slave to some idealized outcome that dominates how we judge ourselves and how we feel.
Process over outcome. Potentially the biggest thing I talk to my clients about.
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Thanks for all the responses! I hear "things get wonky" for a lean person in a big deficit doing a lot of cardio. How much (and what kind of) cardio? And how big a deficit? And how lean before the wonkiness can happen?0
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This a great post! Thanks.
Can you define "wonky, please?" I'm 64 YO, 5'4", 120.5 lbs. My goal is first to tone and second to get to 117 lbs. that's still 7 lbs over what I weighed when I got married. It took me more than a month to see any movement on the scale or inches lost, until yesterday. I got on the scale and was delighted to see I was down 1.5 lbs. I strength train/ lift about 4 X week and do some form of cardio those days as well, plus another two days of cardio. The gym trainer at my gym said I didn't need so much cardio and to spend more time lifting. Would you agree? I have begun to see some definition in my arms and legs.0 -
I am back primarily to thank stroutman for his advice. I've read and re-read training for the new albinism and I've allowed my thinking and focus to give up on physique goals in favour of performance. I unfollowed all the fitspo accounts I would look at when sitting around hungry (hangry) at work and have followed a bunch of people going out and doing amazing adventures as motivation. I've put the scale away. I still track intake but more so that I can fuel properly. My progress reports on mfp has changed from weight to measurement and weightlifting PRs and resting HR and I'm focused on time spent in different training modalities. And I am so much happier.0
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