Relatively light people trying to get leaner

stroutman81

Sorry I don't know how to quote :-/
You asked if I read your links. I just did and I think I will try to do a routine on my own, as opposed to P90x (because I really do hate following videos. I just thought that was the only way I could figure it out until I read your links). Now I just need to get my son to show me what a "row" is

If your son has experience lifting weights, I'd have him check your form in all of your movements.

A row can be done a number of ways. Here are a few:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-xHEZABN5E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkb_YA8U4r0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkQnlCzh0RA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwAbj6sOpVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZLCvXbej_Q (can use a pronated or supinated grip... this video shows a supinated)

stroutman81

you have to delete the "quote" bit at the end I think

I have anterior pelvic tilt (office worker) and have been doing hip flexor stretches, glute activation, lower back stretches reguarly for at least 3 months now. As far as I know I still have APT. Just wondering if you would have any idea as to the effectiveness of these exercises fixing it over time? ie. how long should I continue doing these for if I can't see any results? Also, is APT the same as lordosis?

Chicken or the egg. Your hip flexors, as classically defined, consist of your iliacus and your psoas major. Your iliacus originates on your pelvis and attaches on your femur. Makes sense, right? As the muscle shortens, it pulls your thigh upward, thus flexing the hip. The psoas major also attaches on the femur - however, it actually originates on the vertebrae of the lumbar spine. For completeness, the rector femoris is also a hip flexor.

If the iliacus is overactive, tight or shortened, due to its origin and insertion it's going to have a tendency to pull your hip forward/down. When the psoas major is overactive, tight or shortened, it's going to have the tendency to pull your lower spine inward, thus creating excessive lordosis. If you think about it though, even without the psoas pulling the spine inward, you can't anteriorally tilt your spine without shortening your lower back muscles and thus arching your lower back.

It can be a tough issue, especially seeing as how you're combating a posture you put yourself in daily. So step one would be to get up from your desk as often as possible. A few minutes of exercise to combat APT each day isn't going to be enough to offset the chronic posture you're putting yourself into.

I'd also recommend finding a good manual therapist - someone who specialized in soft tissue massage modalities and treatments such as active release technique. While this can be painful, it tends to do wonders with this issue.

I also have had a knee injury and have done VMO activation and regularly use foam roller on ITB, quads, hammies. Also use tennise ball for glutes.

That's great. Definitely try out TKEs. Check out the link below.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=33895&tid=115

stroutman81

Sooo much to read, need to mark for later! I'm 2/3 through Insanity and it has changed not only my body, but my attitude about the ridiculousness of the scale at my height/weight (5'9" / 152). I look so much better than I did when I weighed 10 pounds less but did mostly the elliptical. I will be adding higher weight strength training when I'm done, like you suggest. Like many women I'm scared of the weight room. But I wll just get my *kitten* in there. Thanks for the *kick* Steve!

Love to hear stories like this. Be sure to spread the good word. More women need to hear stuff like this!

hroush

For my little upper body workout after my spin class I almost always just have girls. It has always bugged me seeing these girls lifting such small weights (3-5 lbs) when I can tell they are doing nothing. I flat out told them last night, if they lifted more, they would get more out of the workout and would see results. I can see the stigma rolling off of them not wanting to lift more, as if they know they couldn't lift more. Ideas on how to get them to see the light? I want to keep this little workout simple partly because I don't want to scare them away as I can tell they've never lifted before and also because I have no room (I have to do it in the spin room and I only have access to dumbbells and yoga mats).

stroutman81

For my little upper body workout after my spin class I almost always just have girls. It has always bugged me seeing these girls lifting such small weights (3-5 lbs) when I can tell they are doing nothing. I flat out told them last night, if they lifted more, they would get more out of the workout and would see results. I can see the stigma rolling off of them not wanting to lift more, as if they know they couldn't lift more. Ideas on how to get them to see the light? I want to keep this little workout simple partly because I don't want to scare them away as I can tell they've never lifted before and also because I have no room (I have to do it in the spin room and I only have access to dumbbells and yoga mats).

First identify the fear. Obviously it's getting bulky and muscular.

Then define what goes into muscle growth. You need overload of the muscles via increasing loads lifted, sufficient calories, genetics, and hormones.

Then explain the rational conclusion. Unless they are consistently lifting heavier weights over time AND eating more calories than their bodies need AND have the genetic proclivities to pack on muscle very easily AND they're injecting hormones into their bodies to bring them up to the levels males have... they're worrying about nothing. In fact, what they're doing is "cutting off their leg during a race." Put differently, their diminishing the chances of reaching their goal physiques.

I've a thread on my forum that I suggest checking out. In it, here is one of the posts:

Speaking of women and weight lifting, another common area of confusion is the idea of women getting bulky from lifting weights. Let’s squash this right now. Go into any gym and check out the women who actually do seriously lift weights. Outside the realm of those select few who have deeper voices than your father, a chiseled jawbone and facial hair… how many women are actually loaded with muscle? Not many, if any at all. If you think otherwise you’re pretty delusional. I’ve been in the gym scene for a majority of my life and it just isn’t the case.

First things first and as noted above, most of the women around here are dieting. Male or female… when you’re dieting, packing on slabs of muscle simply isn’t going to happen.

Second, prime an environment for a woman to put on muscle by way of ensuring things such as a caloric surplus and appropriate weight lifting routine are in place. Even with this.... women are not hormonally dispositioned to build mass amounts of muscle. Even with the variables aligned for muscle growth, the majority of women aren’t going to get bulky. Hell, go to the gym and you'll see many MEN who train hard and heavy yet are still nothing spectacular in terms of muscle development. If getting really muscular were as easy as many women assume, people (especially men) walking around with ginormous arms and barrel-chests would be a dime a dozen. This just isn’t the case.

Don’t fall victim to this trap. As I noted previously, maintaining and even adding a bit of muscle is what you should be after if you're looking to 'tone up' your physique. Simply losing weight is a terrible goal. It leaves most, especially women, simply a lighter, softer version of their former selves. I've seen it happen time and time again. They lose the weight... they're even happy at first simply because they've been focusing on the scale for so long. Then it sinks in... huge amounts of frustration and disappointment because they still don't look the way they had dreamt about. They can blame this on the fact that they didn't do the muscle-saving things necessary to enhance physique.

The full thread can be found here:

http://www.forum-body-improvements.com/showthread.php?t=23

ironweber717

Stroutman81
First I'd like to say thanks for all the advice you post to help us mortals. After reading several of them I thought I would post to you my delema. I'm currently around 170lbs 5'10" male. I've lost around 137lbs so far and I'm looking to lose just a little more. I've been sitting at the same weight for over 3 months and 12% body fat. I would like to get down to 6-8% and a BMI around 21. I've become an avid cyclist because of a knee replacement in August 2010. I look lean but I still have some fat retention around the middle. I've resorted to seeing a Sports Nutritionist to sort out my meals because it's not the lack exercise. After 6 weeks I'm at the same weight and around the same BF%. I feel that everything is in place but I'm not making any progress. I've decreased the intensity of my rides to 65-75% MHR sustained for 2-4 hrs. on long days and 70-95% on interval or hard rides of 2 or less hours. I ride 5-6 days a week. I also have 3 days of upper body strenth training.

Now I know there are a lot of factors to consider and more information that could be required, but where do I go from here? I would like to lose the additional body fat without increasing to much muscle weight just because of being a cyclist and I will be participating in long distance rides.

Looking forward to your suggestions.. Thanks

leahsevilla

Hey Stroutman81
Just stumbled upon your blog and want to first say thanks for all the great information. second i've got some questions: but to begin, my stats are: Age 24, weight 120 height 5'1 (almost) I am a recovered eating disorder sufferer, and have been practicing normal eating habits for 2 years. I work out 4-5x/week for 1-1.5 hrs each time usually cardio and 1 strength training session/week also do yoga 2x/week

I noticed in one post that you said you barely have anyone who should eat only 1200 calories unless they are very small females. I have trouble eating that much not because of my past ED but because it's a lot of food for someone as short as me.

How much do you think calorie-wise i should be eating? Since I don't have a great metabolism based on my past is there anything else I can do? How do i find out how to strength train properly? (just based on which muscles to work which days etc) thanks for your help.

Whirligig

Great thread - bookmarked to re-read later!

sweetsarahj

Hey All! I am being sneaky at work and reading your posts, very interesting thread! I'm posting now to get it in my topics so i can read the rest later. Take care!

Sarah

als0317

Fun thread to find today. I'm tall, and by outward appearance, lean. I know better, and I'm trying to lose some of my squishy.

[True story: a guy I dated once told me he liked that I wasn't rail thin, he liked that I am "soft." While I also agree that I like not being rail thin, I want to be more tone, less soft! :laugh:]

I recently started P90X, and I am actively trying to push myself to use heavier weights. Those 3lb-ers are just silly. Depending on the move, I am using 5s and 8s, and I'm already on the hunt for heavier weights to borrow!

sweetsarahj

I've now read through about half of this thread, and I have to say, Bravo Steve! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here. I feel like I've just had an epiphany. I'm 31, 5 feet tall, 132 pounds (about). For the past year I've been lamenting the fact that my jeans from 3 years ago don't fit me anymore. Last year I only half-heartedly tried to slim down and struggled with it. This year I am focused on getting stronger and gaining muscle. I'm lifting weights about 4x week, and after reading this thread, I'm upping my calories.

BTW, if anyone has an iPhone or iTouch, there is an awesome strength training app called iFitness. It gives you how to perform an exercise, detailed description, pictures, video, and allows you to track your progress. I also use the timer on it to time my rests between sets. Very useful.

chrisdavey

Thanks for that Steve. Going to see Physio today so will ask her about ART for hip flexors and lower back.

Interestingly, I was actually looking at buying some bands yesterday for that exact movement as well as using them to train me to push out more while doing squats.

Lisamarie7574

Wow, what incredible information! So does this explain why people who are not overweight and/or are at a normal BMI level have a harder time losing any weight? I'm in a normal BMI range and not overweight, just trying to lose up to 10 lbs of weight brought on by pregnancy and "thirty-something-hood". I'm finding that all of the people on here who have a lot more to lose are doing the same exercises as me, for the same amount of time, and burning WAY more calories than I am! They're also dropping pounds at the drop of a hat it seems! And yet I've made drastic changes to my diet in terms of eating more nutritiously AND I'm exercising and working out more than I have since I was a dancer just out of college......AND SEEING ALMOST NO PROGRESS. Is it harder for someone who is lighter and has less to lose than someone who is heavier and has more to lose?

Lisamarie7574

By the way, I had no idea that this thread had 13 pages!! I only read the first page and thought that was the end! Sorry if I'm coming in sounding completely out of sequence here!

stroutman81

Stroutman81
First I'd like to say thanks for all the advice you post to help us mortals.

Haha, you're welcome. Thanks for the thanks. And I assure you, I'm about as mortal as they come.

After reading several of them I thought I would post to you my delema. I'm currently around 170lbs 5'10" male. I've lost around 137lbs so far and I'm looking to lose just a little more.

Wow, congratulations! How long did that take you?

I've been sitting at the same weight for over 3 months and 12% body fat. I would like to get down to 6-8% and a BMI around 21.

I'm replying as I read along, so sorry for the random thoughts...

But a couple of things here:

1. 6-8% body fat is not sustainable for most folks. Hell, I've pretty good genetics and I've trouble sustaining 10% year round. Can it be done? Sure. But the amount of tedious effort required to maintain that level of leanness carries some pretty substantial compromises. Ultimately it's obviously a call you have to make on an individual basis, but in my experience, unless you've insanely good genetics, maintaining that level of leanness brings down the overall quality of life too much.

Extremely driven and focused people with sub par genetics can certainly do it.

But by and large, if you've a "life" outside of exercise and eating ridiculously strictly... I'd suggest adjusting your body fat target.

UNLESS....

It's simply a target you'd like to hit just to say you did it and see how it feels. Who knows, maybe that's the right approach to take really. Hit and assess how hard it is to maintain for you personally given your genetics, lifestyle, desire, etc. Just take the above as a warning or some fuel to help manage your expectations. If you find it's not something you can maintain for the long haul... don't be frustrated. Most folks can't.

2. BMI - don't shoot for a specific BMI. I'm overweight by BMI standards. And I'm as healthy as a horse (whatever that means). I can do things most others can not, my blood panels are excellent, etc. BMI doesn't factor in body composition and in my mind, for those who aren't obese, it's a pretty worthless metric.

I've become an avid cyclist because of a knee replacement in August 2010. I look lean but I still have some fat retention around the middle. I've resorted to seeing a Sports Nutritionist to sort out my meals because it's not the lack exercise. After 6 weeks I'm at the same weight and around the same BF%. I feel that everything is in place but I'm not making any progress. I've decreased the intensity of my rides to 65-75% MHR sustained for 2-4 hrs. on long days and 70-95% on interval or hard rides of 2 or less hours. I ride 5-6 days a week. I also have 3 days of upper body strenth training.

Now I know there are a lot of factors to consider and more information that could be required, but where do I go from here? I would like to lose the additional body fat without increasing to much muscle weight just because of being a cyclist and I will be participating in long distance rides.

Here's a big pill you might have to swallow and I just got done saying this to someone else on MFP elsewhere. It seems around here that most everyone is trying to be an endurance athlete. And there's nothing wrong with that at all... I think endurance sports are awesome and I'm envious of these athlete's abilities as I've never been an endurance guy.

That said, being good at endurance sports is NOT synonymous with being ripped and lean.

Form follows function. Training specificity means something.

To optimize body composition, it takes a very balanced approach. Sure, you strength train 3 times per week... but you also do a pile of endurance work and endurance work in high volumes can make for some small muscles as they become more efficient and oxidative. Small muscles are the opposite of what's need to optimize leanness. Which isn't to say you need hulking muscle either. Just more balanced, and thus more balanced training.

And that's a hard pill to swallow for some folks. But it's important - having competing goals is a one way road to frustration. And of course there are always those statistical outliers who are great at endurance sports and ripped. But this is an exception to the rule more often than it's not.

Now with that out of the way.... I can also tell you that when it comes to fat loss, the last bit of it is typically the toughest to get rid of for various reasons. And when it finally does come off, not everyone has the genetic proclivities to walk around with 6 packs unfortunately.

I'm sure by now you're thinking, "Geez... I shouldn't have asked this guy anything" lol.

What's your nutritionist saying? I mean on one hand, to get ridiculously lean, you need to ride out a calorie deficit for long enough so that you tap into the stubborn fat. On the other hand, chronic deficits are not conducive to optimizing performance. Which brings us back to competing goals.

I mean, if you were going to focus solely on optimizing body composition... there are some pretty crazy dieting strategies floating around to help with partitioning (where calories are going and coming from). Most notably is Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0, which is something I've done before. However, it's certainly not for everyone and it's not an easy diet to adhere to. Plus, it's very specific on the nutrition and training front, so it's not something that'd be conducive for an endurance athlete.

stroutman81

Hey Stroutman81
Just stumbled upon your blog and want to first say thanks for all the great information.

You're welcome.

second i've got some questions: but to begin, my stats are: Age 24, weight 120 height 5'1 (almost) I am a recovered eating disorder sufferer, and have been practicing normal eating habits for 2 years. I work out 4-5x/week for 1-1.5 hrs each time usually cardio and 1 strength training session/week also do yoga 2x/week

I noticed in one post that you said you barely have anyone who should eat only 1200 calories unless they are very small females. I have trouble eating that much not because of my past ED but because it's a lot of food for someone as short as me.

First, I hope you're recovered from your ED. In my experience, I don't like to have former ED folks getting pulled into the whole calorie counting thing. It tends to bring out their obsessive tendencies more than more conservative approaches. However, I'm not a professional on EDs though I've some experience with them so I'll stop right there.

Generally speaking though, aside from ED populations, height has nothing to do with how much you can eat. Caloric requirements are dependent on your weight, body composition, and activity levels more than anything else.

How much do you think calorie-wise i should be eating? Since I don't have a great metabolism based on my past is there anything else I can do?

I can't answer that question since I don't know what your goals are. Are you trying to gain weight? Lose weight?

BAsed on your past, I'd wager that you're maintenance is lower than would be predicted by online calculators and such. Maybe not, but it's likely.

How do i find out how to strength train properly? (just based on which muscles to work which days etc) thanks for your help.

Have you read this thread in its entirety. It's long, I know. But it'd be worth your time and effort. I've talked extensively about setting up a weight lifting routine and I linked to a number of articles from my blog that delve into the specifics. Read them and if you still have questions, feel free to ask.

Very generally though, something like a full body routine that focuses on big compound exercises 2-3 times per week would probably be ideal for you.

stroutman81

Fun thread to find today. I'm tall, and by outward appearance, lean. I know better, and I'm trying to lose some of my squishy.

[True story: a guy I dated once told me he liked that I wasn't rail thin, he liked that I am "soft." While I also agree that I like not being rail thin, I want to be more tone, less soft! :laugh:]

I recently started P90X, and I am actively trying to push myself to use heavier weights. Those 3lb-ers are just silly. Depending on the move, I am using 5s and 8s, and I'm already on the hunt for heavier weights to borrow!

Good for you. Progressive overload (emphasis on progressive) is a must if continual results are going to be realized. Have to give your body a reason to adjust/adapt.

stroutman81

I've now read through about half of this thread, and I have to say, Bravo Steve! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here. I feel like I've just had an epiphany. I'm 31, 5 feet tall, 132 pounds (about). For the past year I've been lamenting the fact that my jeans from 3 years ago don't fit me anymore. Last year I only half-heartedly tried to slim down and struggled with it. This year I am focused on getting stronger and gaining muscle. I'm lifting weights about 4x week, and after reading this thread, I'm upping my calories.

BTW, if anyone has an iPhone or iTouch, there is an awesome strength training app called iFitness. It gives you how to perform an exercise, detailed description, pictures, video, and allows you to track your progress. I also use the timer on it to time my rests between sets. Very useful.

Glad to hear and thanks for sharing! Glad some of what I had to say was meaningful to you.

pj_writer

that's a very useful post, thank you!

Speaking from experience I've been exercising more and doing a greater variety of exercise (including more squats/abdominal work along with my usual cardio) for the last 6 weeks or so.
My weight hasn't really changed significantly - it hovers around 122lb which is healthy for me - but I have definitely changed shape. My jeans are looser and I'm more toned, especially around the belly. So some fat has definitely gone, I'm assuming that I've increased muscle mass which is why I don't weigh any less. Which is fine by me, as long as I can see/feel a difference.

I wish I'd used the body fat % calculator on my scales 6 weeks ago as then I'd have a number to compare it to, but I didn't, darn it! too late now!

It's definitely good not to put too much emphasis on weight alone when you are close to your ideal BMI

wriglucy

I did't read all the comments, but you are in fitness? Do you have any nutrition degrees?