Relatively light people trying to get leaner

stroutman81

Hi again

I have a knee injury. Physio has said weak vmo and weak glutes so knee not tracking properly

Originally got it in September and was just told about weak glutes and poor balance so worked on that and got back running taping my knee. 3 weeks ago I did a crazy event - 45 miles sat then 45 miles Sunday- my knee was ok but after was agony. After a week saw a diff physio who also identified weak vmo so now working on that with leg press and leg extension ( toes pointing out) any other vmo suggestions?

Well weak glutes are pretty common. You probably have overactive hip flexors as well. When these are overactive, a phenomenon known as reciprocal inhibition tends to take place where the opposing muscle becomes weak or inhibited. This can generally lead to an issue known as anterior pelvic tilt. Strip down to your underwear and look at yourself from the side in a mirror or picture. If you notice that your waistband is angled down and frontward significantly, this is a pretty good indication that some APT is going on.

The fix, keeping in mind I'm a trainer and not a therapist....

Stretch your hip flexors and focus on activation drills for the glutes. Might as well spend some time stretching out your hamstrings and lower back as well if you have ATP since they tend to overcompensate for the weak glutes in hip extension.

Things for glute activation would include glute bridges, barbell hip thrusts, bird dogs, clam shells, x band walks, etc.

For the tracking issue, I'd get some soft tissue work done on your upper legs. I'd also do loads of self myofascial release (foam rolling for instance) on your IT band vastus lateralis. Any exercise that fires the quads (squats, lunges, presses, extensions, etc) will fire 4 muscles comprising them. However, things like TKEs (terminal knee extensions) with a band have done wonders for a lot of folks I know with VMO issues.

In reality though, I think if you get your glutes firing and work out kinks in your ITB, you'd be feeling much better.

I'll note again though, I'm not a physiotherapist. While I work closely with a few... it's simply not my area of expertise.

stroutman81

@strout I know you've probably done this several times for people on here but I was wondering if you could help me with my calories. Just like everyone else has said, MFP sets me at 1200/day. My stats are below

Height: 5'8
Age: 25
Weight: 142
Goal Weight (I was at this previously before I started a desk job): 134
Body fat %: 20

What's your exercise like? And what's your lifestyle like?

Should I be eating more? Also, what are your thoughts on eating your exercise calories? Normally if I exercise off 500 calories I eat those back in order to net 1200. I typically exercise 4 days/week for an hour. I used to do only cardio but have begun adding in weights.

Thanks SO much in advance!

Read this thread:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/173853-an-objective-look-at-eating-exercise-calories

I have a desk job from 8-6 everyday but then most days of the week (usually 5 or 6 if I'm good) I hit the gym. I do spring intervals for about 50 minutes (run at 7.5 mph for 2 minutes, then walk at 4 mph for 1 minute) and then I do a bit of weight (2 sets of 15 lunges on each leg, 3 rounds of arm reps with 5 lb weights, ab twists and sit ups).

I'm also trying to eat a lot of protein and don't eat hardly any bread or pasta because i'm borderline gluten intolerant.

I'd probably put you at 1400-1500 cals per day given that. That's where I'd start at least. But if you've been chronically eating 1200 calories I certainly wouldn't jump right up to that. Maybe add 100 calories every week or so until you're there.

More importantly, what has your progress been? You shouldn't be trying to fix something that "ain't broke."

moe5474

@strout I know you've probably done this several times for people on here but I was wondering if you could help me with my calories. Just like everyone else has said, MFP sets me at 1200/day. My stats are below

Height: 5'8
Age: 25
Weight: 142
Goal Weight (I was at this previously before I started a desk job): 134
Body fat %: 20

What's your exercise like? And what's your lifestyle like?

Should I be eating more? Also, what are your thoughts on eating your exercise calories? Normally if I exercise off 500 calories I eat those back in order to net 1200. I typically exercise 4 days/week for an hour. I used to do only cardio but have begun adding in weights.

Thanks SO much in advance!

Read this thread:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/173853-an-objective-look-at-eating-exercise-calories

I have a desk job from 8-6 everyday but then most days of the week (usually 5 or 6 if I'm good) I hit the gym. I do spring intervals for about 50 minutes (run at 7.5 mph for 2 minutes, then walk at 4 mph for 1 minute) and then I do a bit of weight (2 sets of 15 lunges on each leg, 3 rounds of arm reps with 5 lb weights, ab twists and sit ups).

I'm also trying to eat a lot of protein and don't eat hardly any bread or pasta because i'm borderline gluten intolerant.

I'd probably put you at 1400-1500 cals per day given that. That's where I'd start at least. But if you've been chronically eating 1200 calories I certainly wouldn't jump right up to that. Maybe add 100 calories every week or so until you're there.

More importantly, what has your progress been? You shouldn't be trying to fix something that "ain't broke."

So you're saying I should eat 1400-1500 BEFORE I add in exercise calories (i.e. If I burn 400 calories with exercise I should eat around 1800)?

I went from 146 to 142 but I've plateaued. I've tried switching up my exercise routine and altering my calories (eating more some days, and less others) but nothing is working. I've always been a yoyo-er, so I know I can lose the weight because I have so many times before. But I want to do it the healthy way so I can keep it off.

stroutman81

great thread with lots of great info! Im about 5lbs off my goal! But i cant seem to make the last stretch...starting to wonder if I am being unrealistic in my goal. Im around 10% BF and I want to get to 8%. Dig deep for a couple of weeks or adjust goal.

Looking good man.

That's really your call. What I'd be asking is this: "Why do I want to lose these last 5 lbs?" If it's just to say you did it and reach that level of leanness once in your life... so be it. But for most, it's probably not sustainable so some folks simply won't try and reach it. I wouldn't personally. I don't put a big premium on leanness - at least not that level of leanness. But I'm also married with a kid and don't have a large incentive to be extremely lean. Single guys, I can understand a bit more.

Life's all about compromises. For the genetically gifted, they can rock your leanness and below year round with no trouble. For others though, including myself, the trade off would be miserableness. Which is something I'm not willing to trade for.

That said, if it's something you want to hit, I'd be looking at some sort of cyclical diet where I'm doing once or twice per week refeeds. Do you have any knowledge with this?

stroutman81

There is a lot of great material and I appreciate you taking the time to answer everyone. Speaking of which, I think I'll jump in. I am male, 27, 5' 10", and around 205 lbs. I don't really have a set weight in mind, I want to look good without a shirt. Currently I have about a 1/2 inch of fat around my stomach that I have never been able to get rid of. This semester (still in school), I am doing a spin class twice a week with a www.hundredpushups.com pushup, situp, and 25 lb. bicep curl work out afterward and then on a third day I am doing interval running with the third day of the aforementioned lifting workout (if all that made any sense). So far doing this I have lost some (about 10 lbs.), but I feel as if I will plateau again. My diet isn't the best (probably best place to improve), but I think I stay around 1700 calories on most days. So after all of this, my question is:

Should I increase the weights for the lifting portion? I have almost completed the workout, which means I am getting into more of an endurance mode (about 5 sets of 25 pushups and bicep curls).

Should I focus on eating better? Right now I eat a lot of pastas / meats which contain some veggies, though last week I had popcorn everyday for lunch (gotta love the college diet).

Haha, okay...

I'm biased. I think pretty much everyone should be strength training. Why? Because in my experience, to reach the physical goals that most have, they're not going to be able to attain them without it save for a very select group of genetically superior folks.

So yea, I think it's important and you should be doing it. Not just for the physique stuff.... but it's great for overall health and function as well.

Doing loads of pushups, situps and crunches aren't going to be the answer. And you're only working your beach muscles. You're neglecting a lot of muscle which, in time, can lead to a number of nagging injuries. Strength training should be balanced or if anything, have more pulling than pushing exercises since we live in an "anterior-dominant" world, meaning everything is in front of us.

Should you clean up your diet? I can't really answer that. I eat a bunch of crap I'm sure others here wouldn't dare. I'm not some clean food nazi, that's for dang sure. If you're moving towards your goals, my gut would say don't muddy the waters until you have to. But I do make sure I'm getting adequate amounts of essentials like protein, healthy fats, fruits and veggies.

stroutman81

Hi! After reading through the thread I am convinced it is time for me to start lifting. I am 39 year old female and am sedentary. I exercise very little (jog 3x week for 30 min with my baby in a jogger-just for the shear enjoyment)

I have almost reached my goal weight of 116lbs (I'm 5'4" with a very small frame) This is my prepregnancy weight.

So my question is; are there any good videos to follow that can help me with weight training. I do NOT want one that combines cardio with weights. Going to a gym is not an option nor is hiring a PT. We do own free weights, a bench and adjustable dumbells. I'm just at a loss, as far as, where do I start :-/

While I'm not a fan of it, p90x is probably the only thing out there that does the actual program of strength training on video. And the reason they're the only ones is because in my opinion, strength training can't be treated like conditioning. We've all of these cardio dvds on the market and that's fine for fat loss. Not so great for true conditioning for sports, in my opinion, but that's besides the point. Strength training is like conditioning for sports. You need to tailor it to the individual.

Did you read my resistance training articles I linked to on I believe the previous page?

stroutman81

So you're saying I should eat 1400-1500 BEFORE I add in exercise calories (i.e. If I burn 400 calories with exercise I should eat around 1800)?

Nope.

If you read that article I linked you to I don't worry about eating back exercise calories. I set sane levels/volumes of exercise and don't worry about what's being expended. Then I set calories. If the calorie intake isn't doing the trick, I'll tweak it as I go along.

I went from 146 to 142 but I've plateaued. I've tried switching up my exercise routine and altering my calories (eating more some days, and less others) but nothing is working. I've always been a yoyo-er, so I know I can lose the weight because I have so many times before. But I want to do it the healthy way so I can keep it off.

Just remember I track my smaller clients results on a monthly basis. Week to week is simply too short to determine anything. So if you're not consistent month to month, there's a good chance that's the issue. For instance, I've seen time and time again smaller women give up after 3 weeks since the scale didn't budge. They don't give up entirely... but they binge here and there since nothing is working.

When in reality, they were losing fat but it was masked by water weight or whatever. It would have revealed itself with enough patience and consistency. But they were emotionally driven more than anything which screws them up.

I'm not saying this is the case with you. But definitely something to think about.

moe5474

So you're saying I should eat 1400-1500 BEFORE I add in exercise calories (i.e. If I burn 400 calories with exercise I should eat around 1800)?

Nope.

If you read that article I linked you to I don't worry about eating back exercise calories. I set sane levels/volumes of exercise and don't worry about what's being expended. Then I set calories. If the calorie intake isn't doing the trick, I'll tweak it as I go along.

I went from 146 to 142 but I've plateaued. I've tried switching up my exercise routine and altering my calories (eating more some days, and less others) but nothing is working. I've always been a yoyo-er, so I know I can lose the weight because I have so many times before. But I want to do it the healthy way so I can keep it off.

Just remember I track my smaller clients results on a monthly basis. Week to week is simply too short to determine anything. So if you're not consistent month to month, there's a good chance that's the issue. For instance, I've seen time and time again smaller women give up after 3 weeks since the scale didn't budge. They don't give up entirely... but they binge here and there since nothing is working.

When in reality, they were losing fat but it was masked by water weight or whatever. It would have revealed itself with enough patience and consistency. But they were emotionally driven more than anything which screws them up.

I'm not saying this is the case with you. But definitely something to think about.

Gotcha. Thanks so much

hroush

Haha, okay...

I'm biased. I think pretty much everyone should be strength training. Why? Because in my experience, to reach the physical goals that most have, they're not going to be able to attain them without it save for a very select group of genetically superior folks.

So yea, I think it's important and you should be doing it. Not just for the physique stuff.... but it's great for overall health and function as well.

Doing loads of pushups, situps and crunches aren't going to be the answer. And you're only working your beach muscles. You're neglecting a lot of muscle which, in time, can lead to a number of nagging injuries. Strength training should be balanced or if anything, have more pulling than pushing exercises since we live in an "anterior-dominant" world, meaning everything is in front of us.

Should you clean up your diet? I can't really answer that. I eat a bunch of crap I'm sure others here wouldn't dare. I'm not some clean food nazi, that's for dang sure. If you're moving towards your goals, my gut would say don't muddy the waters until you have to. But I do make sure I'm getting adequate amounts of essentials like protein, healthy fats, fruits and veggies.

I planned on increasing the weight wednesday night, but with your advise I will do it tonight. I think I'll follow the same workout plan, but with the increased weight (40 lbs bicep curl and test to find a dumbbell press weight) move back to week 1.

Strength training is why I started doing the workout, as before I was only doing the spin class. I am going to start including back exercises tonight as I have started having some lower back pain (strained lower back muscles). I know I should have a balanced workout, which is why I also started doing to bicep curls (not part of the website, just following the pushup plan), but what else should I do?

Also, my bicep curls are not those sitting, elbow on knee, staring at the weight curls. I am standing and let my arms move freely; I feel a lot more muscles working this way.

stroutman81

Haha, okay...

I'm biased. I think pretty much everyone should be strength training. Why? Because in my experience, to reach the physical goals that most have, they're not going to be able to attain them without it save for a very select group of genetically superior folks.

So yea, I think it's important and you should be doing it. Not just for the physique stuff.... but it's great for overall health and function as well.

Doing loads of pushups, situps and crunches aren't going to be the answer. And you're only working your beach muscles. You're neglecting a lot of muscle which, in time, can lead to a number of nagging injuries. Strength training should be balanced or if anything, have more pulling than pushing exercises since we live in an "anterior-dominant" world, meaning everything is in front of us.

Should you clean up your diet? I can't really answer that. I eat a bunch of crap I'm sure others here wouldn't dare. I'm not some clean food nazi, that's for dang sure. If you're moving towards your goals, my gut would say don't muddy the waters until you have to. But I do make sure I'm getting adequate amounts of essentials like protein, healthy fats, fruits and veggies.

I planned on increasing the weight wednesday night, but with your advise I will do it tonight. I think I'll follow the same workout plan, but with the increased weight (40 lbs bicep curl and test to find a dumbbell press weight) move back to week 1.

Strength training is why I started doing the workout, as before I was only doing the spin class. I am going to start including back exercises tonight as I have started having some lower back pain (strained lower back muscles). I know I should have a balanced workout, which is why I also started doing to bicep curls (not part of the website, just following the pushup plan), but what else should I do?

Also, my bicep curls are not those sitting, elbow on knee, staring at the weight curls. I am standing and let my arms move freely; I feel a lot more muscles working this way.
[/quote]

Personally I wouldn't worry about bicep curls. If you do, throw them then at the end. My primary concerns when picking exercises are:

quad dominant leg exercises like goblet squats, barbell squats, front squats, leg presses, step ups, lunge variations, etc.

glute/hamstring dominant exercises like conventional deadlifts, rack pulls, trap bar deads, dumbbell suitcase deads, barbell hip thrusts, pull throughs, etc

pulling exercises like barbell rows, pendlay rows, dumbbell rows (single arm, double arm, head supported, etc), inverted rows, pullups, cable rows, pulldowns, trap raises, etc.

pushing exercises like barbell or dumbbell bench press at varying angles, pushups, overhead press, push press, etc.

You focus on these big movements and your arms will get plenty of work. Be sure to read the posts I've made over the last few pages regarding program design.

hroush

Personally I wouldn't worry about bicep curls. If you do, throw them then at the end. My primary concerns when picking exercises are:

quad dominant leg exercises like goblet squats, barbell squats, front squats, leg presses, step ups, lunge variations, etc.

glute/hamstring dominant exercises like conventional deadlifts, rack pulls, trap bar deads, dumbbell suitcase deads, barbell hip thrusts, pull throughs, etc

pulling exercises like barbell rows, pendlay rows, dumbbell rows (single arm, double arm, head supported, etc), inverted rows, pullups, cable rows, pulldowns, trap raises, etc.

pushing exercises like barbell or dumbbell bench press at varying angles, pushups, overhead press, push press, etc.

You focus on these big movements and your arms will get plenty of work. Be sure to read the posts I've made over the last few pages regarding program design.

Those sound fun. I currently can't change what I'm doing too much as I am leading the spin class and my extra workout at the end is a part of the class. I will definitely look over the previous pages to put a program together and change my friday/saturday workout and add something on the end of my spin class workouts to incorporate these. Thanks for all your help.

UpToAnyCool

bump. ( i'm 5'-0" tall, currently normal BMI - but flabby :grumble: . have decided to focus more on %BF and less on the final number.)

kilojoule

Looking good man.

That's really your call. What I'd be asking is this: "Why do I want to lose these last 5 lbs?". That said, if it's something you want to hit, I'd be looking at some sort of cyclical diet where I'm doing once or twice per week refeeds. Do you have any knowledge with this?

thanks for the great advice, motivation is power to weight ratio - i do a little bike racing to keep me busy and the lighter you are the less energy it takes to go as fast, particularly uphill ;-) Every time Im able to get under 170 I just cant seem to hold it. Alot of what you have written has given me motivation to look at my goals in a new light!

married 10 years wtih 4 boys so I am not worried about leaning out for the ladies, just my lady :-) No idea what a refeed is but im a master googler and will try to educate myself.

Thanks again!

Deborah214

Hi! After reading through the thread I am convinced it is time for me to start lifting. I am 39 year old female and am sedentary. I exercise very little (jog 3x week for 30 min with my baby in a jogger-just for the shear enjoyment)

I have almost reached my goal weight of 116lbs (I'm 5'4" with a very small frame) This is my prepregnancy weight.

So my question is; are there any good videos to follow that can help me with weight training. I do NOT want one that combines cardio with weights. Going to a gym is not an option nor is hiring a PT. We do own free weights, a bench and adjustable dumbells. I'm just at a loss, as far as, where do I start :-/

Sorry I don't know how to quote :-/
You asked if I read your links. I just did and I think I will try to do a routine on my own, as opposed to P90x (because I really do hate following videos. I just thought that was the only way I could figure it out until I read your links). Now I just need to get my son to show me what a "row" is

While I'm not a fan of it, p90x is probably the only thing out there that does the actual program of strength training on video. And the reason they're the only ones is because in my opinion, strength training can't be treated like conditioning. We've all of these cardio dvds on the market and that's fine for fat loss. Not so great for true conditioning for sports, in my opinion, but that's besides the point. Strength training is like conditioning for sports. You need to tailor it to the individual.

Did you read my resistance training articles I linked to on I believe the previous page?

Deborah214

Somehow my reply ended up in the middle of the quote above.

chrisdavey

you have to delete the "quote" bit at the end I think

I have anterior pelvic tilt (office worker) and have been doing hip flexor stretches, glute activation, lower back stretches reguarly for at least 3 months now. As far as I know I still have APT. Just wondering if you would have any idea as to the effectiveness of these exercises fixing it over time? ie. how long should I continue doing these for if I can't see any results? Also, is APT the same as lordosis?

I also have had a knee injury and have done VMO activation and regularly use foam roller on ITB, quads, hammies. Also use tennise ball for glutes.

hroush

Somehow my reply ended up in the middle of the quote above.

click the quote link and it will auto quote that block for you and then you put your response beneath the [/quot] (purpose mispell to not mess it up). If you quote someone else's quote and don't want the original quote, you must delete [quot] ... quoted text ... [/quot].

Deborah214

Somehow my reply ended up in the middle of the quote above.

click the quote link and it will auto quote that block for you and then you put your response beneath the [/quot] (purpose mispell to not mess it up). If you quote someone else's quote and don't want the original quote, you must delete [quot] ... quoted text ... [/quot].

Thank you so much!

jennifer3998

Sooo much to read, need to mark for later! I'm 2/3 through Insanity and it has changed not only my body, but my attitude about the ridiculousness of the scale at my height/weight (5'9" / 152). I look so much better than I did when I weighed 10 pounds less but did mostly the elliptical. I will be adding higher weight strength training when I'm done, like you suggest. Like many women I'm scared of the weight room. But I wll just get my *kitten* in there. Thanks for the *kick* Steve!

stroutman81

thanks for the great advice, motivation is power to weight ratio - i do a little bike racing to keep me busy and the lighter you are the less energy it takes to go as fast, particularly uphill ;-) Every time Im able to get under 170 I just cant seem to hold it. Alot of what you have written has given me motivation to look at my goals in a new light!

married 10 years wtih 4 boys so I am not worried about leaning out for the ladies, just my lady :-) No idea what a refeed is but im a master googler and will try to educate myself.

Thanks again!

Biologically our bodies simply don't want to be extremely lean. Save for drugs and freaky genetics, most people are fighting a losing battle trying to maintain sub 10% (for men) levels year round. Of course there are exceptions... the folks who are extremely driven and take an almost psychotic approach can beat out their genetic proclivity to survive. But at the end of the day, most aren't going to be able to make the necessary compromises.

That said, I get where you're coming from on the performance end of things. Do you feel your training is optimized on the conditioning and strength fronts for bike racing? If not, I wonder what would give you more bang for your buck... improved "fitness" or losing another 5 lbs?

Regarding refeeds, they're structured periods of overfeeding where fat intake is minimized, protein is held constant, and particular carbs are consumed in large quantities. And it's just not more carbs. It's more of the right carbs. Fructose and sucrose should be limited, for the most part.

There are various reasons for doing this but suffice it so say that the primary one is to offset some of the metabolic adaptation that's associated with dieting - especially at lean levels. They can also help with partitioning (where calories are coming from and going to). Frequency and length of refeeds vary due to fat mass, diet, training, etc.

This is refeeds the birds eye view.