Relatively light people trying to get leaner
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This is the best thread I have ever read! So very helpful!0
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I spent all day reading this thread yesterday (productivity at work zero), it was so helpful! Really helped me re-evaluate my goals. Hovering at just under 5'1" and just under 120, I have been chasing the elusive last 10 pounds as just a number on the scale for years (Im 35). I occasionally get down there only to bounce back up again....this really opened my eyes to stop chasing a number on the scale. For the record, when I do get that low, it creates a minimal difference in how I look. I am looking to re-vamp my goals now
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amillenium wrote: »I spent all day reading this thread yesterday (productivity at work zero), it was so helpful! Really helped me re-evaluate my goals. Hovering at just under 5'1" and just under 120, I have been chasing the elusive last 10 pounds as just a number on the scale for years (Im 35). I occasionally get down there only to bounce back up again....this really opened my eyes to stop chasing a number on the scale. For the record, when I do get that low, it creates a minimal difference in how I look. I am looking to re-vamp my goals now
Awesome post and a bump to boot!0 -
Not quite fully read through all of this thread, but I'll explain where I'm at. About 10 stone 6 lbs, 165 cm tall, male, 32 years old, about 17% BF I think, 30 inch waist, lift weights four times a week (currently doing 5/3/1). Been trying for what must be a couple of years now to go the last step to be as lean as I'd feel happy with. Obviously I've made a mess of it, weight going down and back up with hunger getting the better of me. Been below 10 stone before but struggled to get back there since 2013.0
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bologna111 wrote: »This is the best thread I have ever read! So very helpful!
Glad you were able to derive some usefulness from it. I had a lot of fun in this thread over the years.0 -
amillenium wrote: »I spent all day reading this thread yesterday (productivity at work zero), it was so helpful! Really helped me re-evaluate my goals. Hovering at just under 5'1" and just under 120, I have been chasing the elusive last 10 pounds as just a number on the scale for years (Im 35). I occasionally get down there only to bounce back up again....this really opened my eyes to stop chasing a number on the scale. For the record, when I do get that low, it creates a minimal difference in how I look. I am looking to re-vamp my goals now
Great reflection! That's what this is all about. Learning! If I could impart one lesson to everyone I help in fitness it'd be to adopt a mindset that's rooted in experimentation. This isn't about pass/fail. It's about testing things out - conducting our own little personal studies - and reflecting back on them to pinpoint what we did well and to learn.
What do you plan on doing differently now?0 -
Not quite fully read through all of this thread, but I'll explain where I'm at. About 10 stone 6 lbs, 165 cm tall, male, 32 years old, about 17% BF I think, 30 inch waist, lift weights four times a week (currently doing 5/3/1). Been trying for what must be a couple of years now to go the last step to be as lean as I'd feel happy with. Obviously I've made a mess of it, weight going down and back up with hunger getting the better of me. Been below 10 stone before but struggled to get back there since 2013.
How did you look and feel at 10 stone?0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »amillenium wrote: »I spent all day reading this thread yesterday (productivity at work zero), it was so helpful! Really helped me re-evaluate my goals. Hovering at just under 5'1" and just under 120, I have been chasing the elusive last 10 pounds as just a number on the scale for years (Im 35). I occasionally get down there only to bounce back up again....this really opened my eyes to stop chasing a number on the scale. For the record, when I do get that low, it creates a minimal difference in how I look. I am looking to re-vamp my goals now
Great reflection! That's what this is all about. Learning! If I could impart one lesson to everyone I help in fitness it'd be to adopt a mindset that's rooted in experimentation. This isn't about pass/fail. It's about testing things out - conducting our own little personal studies - and reflecting back on them to pinpoint what we did well and to learn.
What do you plan on doing differently now?
I've started eating at maintenance which has made a huge difference in how I feel. I'm also not weighing myself obsessively any more :P
I still do run quite a bit (but that is because I enjoy it). After a long hiatus, I am also trying to get into lifting more again.
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Oh my can't wait to read over your comments tomorrow. I'm 25, 5ft and 145 at the moment. Most of my life I've been between 115-125. I grew up with a mom who is 5'1 and never more than 95 suffering from an eating disorder. I'm struggling to understand a healthy way to loose weight since during my lifetime I've witnessed my mom starve herself or attempt outrageous crash diet. I run close to 10-14 miles a week but often find myself extremely hungry after. I saw where you've mentioned running isn't always as effective as one might think. What's your suggestion? Also, what percentage of calories burned is acceptable to consume back? I did a 3 week long shake diet a few months ago where I consumed no more than 600 cals in a day and lost 15 pounds but am beginning to realize that dehydration and water weight is a big part of fad diets and am looking for a healthier more permanate way to shed the pounds0
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amillenium wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »amillenium wrote: »I spent all day reading this thread yesterday (productivity at work zero), it was so helpful! Really helped me re-evaluate my goals. Hovering at just under 5'1" and just under 120, I have been chasing the elusive last 10 pounds as just a number on the scale for years (Im 35). I occasionally get down there only to bounce back up again....this really opened my eyes to stop chasing a number on the scale. For the record, when I do get that low, it creates a minimal difference in how I look. I am looking to re-vamp my goals now
Great reflection! That's what this is all about. Learning! If I could impart one lesson to everyone I help in fitness it'd be to adopt a mindset that's rooted in experimentation. This isn't about pass/fail. It's about testing things out - conducting our own little personal studies - and reflecting back on them to pinpoint what we did well and to learn.
What do you plan on doing differently now?
I've started eating at maintenance which has made a huge difference in how I feel. I'm also not weighing myself obsessively any more :P
I still do run quite a bit (but that is because I enjoy it). After a long hiatus, I am also trying to get into lifting more again.
Great stuff. Way to be reflective and make modifications while walking the path toward your best you!0 -
I read this thread a while back but reading it again. I lost just 21 lbs (137-116, 5'2" 47 yrs old) but got pretty lean. Mostly my upper body leaned out to the point where I don't want to lose any more. I've switched to maintenance now and enjoy the effect the extra calories have in my lifting (PHUL). I'm hoping to achieve recomp as I did have to work hard for this leanness and I don't want to regain fat but also don't want to lose anymore from my upper body.0
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stroutman81 wrote: »I'm going through my blog here on MFP and finding a few pieces I think are worth sharing on the main board. This piece specifically was a blurb from a conversation I was having with a relatively lean female who was "having problems" getting leaner.
**************
Where I'm going with this is... being a light female, you don't have a lot of room to wiggle, calorically speaking. 12 calories per pound is typically where I'll start my clients who are interested in fat loss. That's assuming a maintenance of around 14-15 calories per pound and frequent exercise.
So in your case, 12 x 122 = 1500ish calories per day.
You're most likely eating close to that after you eat your exercise calories back. Plus, keep in mind that mostly everyone under-reports actual calorie intake. Humans are just very poor at doing this accurately. I have papers showing dietitians significantly under-reporting their true intake, believe it or not.
So in this case, we're assuming your maintenance is 14 x 122 = 1700 leaving you with a 200 cal/day deficit.
Given that there are 3500 cals in one pound of fat, assuming all you lost was fat (which isn't the case), it would take you 17-18 days just to lose one pound.
And even with that, smaller women who are trying to diet invariably deal with all sorts of water balance issues. Part of it is glycogen, as mentioned above. Each gram of glycogen that is stored carries along 3 grams of water. But it also has loads to do with hormone balances that tend to get wonky in women in your position.
So your fat loss could be happening at this excruciatingly slow pace and even then, you won't realize it on the scale as it can be masked by 2-5 lbs of water weight.
I see it all the time... women in similar shoes heading in the "right" direction but they never stick with things long enough to realize it. They solely use the scale to measure progress so they never actually realize they're losing fat and this is coupled with short-term perceptions/expectations. They never stick to the plan b/c they allow water weight to dominate their emotional well-being. More often then not they cave, binge, and try again next week or month or whatever. It's a viscous cycle.
More often than not, managing expectation along with tracking weight/body comp over many weeks and plotting a trend is what's called for. Or to put it differently, it's a matter of patience, assuming you have your nutrition and exercise dialed in correctly.
I'm just finishing working with a woman who's a fitness competitor. Over the course of a 2 month cut she averaged under .5 lbs of fat loss per week. And her weight remained the same throughout much of that time. Think about that.
Also, keep in mind that your maintenance may very well be under 14 calories per pound. Say it's 13. That puts maintenance at 1600 and if you're consuming 1500 cals/day, that gives you an average daily deficit of only 100 cals. At that rate, again assuming you lose nothing but fat, it would take you 35 days to lose one pound of fat.
See where I'm going with this?
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I'm in n this boat. I gained 10 pounces over the last 2 years (I was breastfeeding-weaning during that time as well) and I have hypothyroidism (I'm active and usually get in 10-15,000 steps a day.) I'm 5'6 140 now. I've been doing MFP for 3 months .mostly cardiovascular at first 4-6 times a week. ..no weight loss at all. I changed up my routine a few weeks ago with weight training and targeting different areas of the body on different days and stopped worrying about every calorie and trying to stay at 1200. Some days I'm over to 1400 now. I have lost 9 inches total on my body in the last 3 months. Still no weight loss, but I feel better and I'm looking leaner and getting stronger. I've fully weaned my daughter now for 5 months and hoping my body will kick back into gear hormone wise and I will lose some of the weight.0
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msteele377 wrote: »Oh my can't wait to read over your comments tomorrow. I'm 25, 5ft and 145 at the moment. Most of my life I've been between 115-125. I grew up with a mom who is 5'1 and never more than 95 suffering from an eating disorder. I'm struggling to understand a healthy way to loose weight since during my lifetime I've witnessed my mom starve herself or attempt outrageous crash diet. I run close to 10-14 miles a week but often find myself extremely hungry after. I saw where you've mentioned running isn't always as effective as one might think. What's your suggestion? Also, what percentage of calories burned is acceptable to consume back? I did a 3 week long shake diet a few months ago where I consumed no more than 600 cals in a day and lost 15 pounds but am beginning to realize that dehydration and water weight is a big part of fad diets and am looking for a healthier more permanate way to shed the pounds
Hi there. A couple of thoughts for you.
1. Obviously... you are not your mother. You can forge a better path. Learn the valuable and hard lessons lessons from her choices.
2. "Healthy weight loss" is subjective, to a degree. If you're referring to the fact that you don't want to be like your mother where you lose too much weight and struggle with your relationship with food... it starts with setting realistic expectations and building food habits that honor you, your body, and your activity rather than using food as a form of punishment/medication.
3. Running isn't good or bad. If you enjoy it, I'm certainly not going to tell you to stop. My clients, many of whom are on this very board, will attest to that. Is it my first order of business when constructing a program for someone who's primarily interested in physique optimization? No. Resistance training is. But that doesn't mean it can't be worked into the plan if it's something that you enjoy doing.
4. I personally don't get into the whole "eat X% of calories burned back." It's unnecessarily complicated and is making a lot of assumptions about the accuracy of not only intake, but also expenditure. For people who prefer counting calories, I find it much more effective to simply pick a sane starting TOTAL calorie target. Call it 10-12 cals/lb for active people, which you are. Realize this simply a starting point to test. Don't put stock in it being right or wrong... remember, this is and always will be a process of experimentation, learning, and refinement. From there, track progress over a handful of weeks and then adjust accordingly based on what's actually happening. Losing too quickly? Bring the calorie target up a smidgen. Not fast enough? Drop them a bit. Rinse and repeat.
Since activity expenditure isn't wildly swinging week to week... I don't see much a point in muddying the waters with tracking energy expenditure per day and trying to eat that amount back.
Now I will say this. If you actually like the idea of eating exercise calories back, I believe you're supposed to eat 100% of them back per MFP norms. Admittedly I'm not an MFP expert. But as far as I know, MFP embeds the deficit BEFORE they factor in exercise. This way, if you don't exercise at all you are still in a deficit. If you add exercise into the mix... if you don't eat those calories expended back, you wind up digging yourself too deeply into the calorie hole. Or so the story goes.
Again, far too many moving parts and far too much guesswork for my liking.
5. Most importantly...
Stop looking for quick fixes and start embracing the idea of a lifelong journey of learning about your body and building sustainable skills that meet you where you are. This isn't about losing weight quickly. It's about becoming the best version of yourself. And a starved woman who experiences no enjoyment from food living on shakes makes not a better version of yourself. At least I'm guessing.
You are not your weight.
And your appearance and wellbeing has a hell of a lot more to it than simply the number on the scale.0 -
I read this thread a while back but reading it again. I lost just 21 lbs (137-116, 5'2" 47 yrs old) but got pretty lean. Mostly my upper body leaned out to the point where I don't want to lose any more. I've switched to maintenance now and enjoy the effect the extra calories have in my lifting (PHUL). I'm hoping to achieve recomp as I did have to work hard for this leanness and I don't want to regain fat but also don't want to lose anymore from my upper body.
Great work! I'm glad to hear you're giving your body a break now. It'll thank you later!
It's about loving your body.
Not beating it into submission!
And your pattern of fat loss is pretty typical of females, right? The stubborn fat tends to hover around the hips, thighs, and *kitten*.
Yay evolution and baby making ability. 0 -
richellec13 wrote: »I'm in n this boat. I gained 10 pounces over the last 2 years (I was breastfeeding-weaning during that time as well) and I have hypothyroidism (I'm active and usually get in 10-15,000 steps a day.) I'm 5'6 140 now. I've been doing MFP for 3 months .mostly cardiovascular at first 4-6 times a week. ..no weight loss at all. I changed up my routine a few weeks ago with weight training and targeting different areas of the body on different days and stopped worrying about every calorie and trying to stay at 1200. Some days I'm over to 1400 now. I have lost 9 inches total on my body in the last 3 months. Still no weight loss, but I feel better and I'm looking leaner and getting stronger. I've fully weaned my daughter now for 5 months and hoping my body will kick back into gear hormone wise and I will lose some of the weight.
Great testament to the fact that it's not all about the scale. Great job. I'm glad to hear you loosened up the reigns a bit.0 -
Wow this post really opened my eyes. I used to be a cardio junky. Little did I know I was doing my body more harm than good. Now I am doing the stronglifts 5x5 program & loving it. I still do some light cardio daily (1hr walks with the dog) & I have discovered that rowing machine @ the gym is a great work-out too. No need for me to pound the pavement running anymore.
Last time I checked I was 159lbs & my height 5'7'' so I am on the high end of most BMI scales.
I am looking forward to gaining my strength & being healthy back because after-all that is what this is all about.
Cheers...0 -
Hi. Sooo. I tested out 1400 calories starting in mid January, I was at 1200,but my trainer said given my activity, it should be no less than 1400. I'm 5'3, 52, and was 135 in mid January. My trainer, who I hired in mid January, weighed me today. I was 2 inches less in my waist and 133. I have been lifting heavy, not much cardio, but today she looked disappointed. Said not much fat loss, suggested I join her in a "reset" by trying a 21 day fix type of detox, and said I need more "metabolic" training, so we did some sort of tabata thing for 15 minutes. I lost before on 1200, so should I just do that? I wanted to give the 1400 a try, not be hasty, but I just thought I'd lose more after two months. My clothes do feel looser. But her disappointment has left me deflated. What should I do?0
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xbowhunter wrote: »Wow this post really opened my eyes. I used to be a cardio junky. Little did I know I was doing my body more harm than good. Now I am doing the stronglifts 5x5 program & loving it. I still do some light cardio daily (1hr walks with the dog) & I have discovered that rowing machine @ the gym is a great work-out too. No need for me to pound the pavement running anymore.
Last time I checked I was 159lbs & my height 5'7'' so I am on the high end of most BMI scales.
I am looking forward to gaining my strength & being healthy back because after-all that is what this is all about.
Cheers...
Glad you found the post helpful!
What sort of harm were you finding the cardio doing to your body?0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »Hi. Sooo. I tested out 1400 calories starting in mid January, I was at 1200,but my trainer said given my activity, it should be no less than 1400. I'm 5'3, 52, and was 135 in mid January. My trainer, who I hired in mid January, weighed me today. I was 2 inches less in my waist and 133. I have been lifting heavy, not much cardio, but today she looked disappointed. Said not much fat loss, suggested I join her in a "reset" by trying a 21 day fix type of detox, and said I need more "metabolic" training, so we did some sort of tabata thing for 15 minutes. I lost before on 1200, so should I just do that? I wanted to give the 1400 a try, not be hasty, but I just thought I'd lose more after two months. My clothes do feel looser. But her disappointment has left me deflated. What should I do?
So you hired a trainer, presumably started (or at a minimum switched up your) lifting, and now, 3 months later, you were hoping to see a bigger difference on the scale.
Right?
If you're new to structured lifting, the scale is pretty unreliable for the first few months. What if you actually added a few lbs of muscle while shedding a few lbs of fat? There'd be no net gain or loss on the scale but you did a lot to your body.
Did your trainer measure more areas than your waist?
Even if not, a 2 inch swing is pretty meaningful.
Also, given that your trainer is suggesting a detox, my primary advice would be to fire her.0 -
Yes. Right on all counts. All other measurements the same although I know for a fact my pants are looser. They're new - still with the tags on - and they're my daily progress check. I broke up with the scale since it was playing with my head when it was showing just up and down the same 1-3 lbs. Plus I can see start to see v shape around my lower abdomen - hip bones? - if that makes sense, and definition in my shoulders and back. Yeah - that detox thing floored me. - cayenne and lemon water?!?! Sigh!! For days?! Nope.
So....should I keep going at 1400? Or
See if I can actually lose at 1200? My goal weight is 128 - just 5 lbs. 125 Would to be great to see but I have a curvy build. Or
Add more cardio? Or
Shaddup and stop focusing on the scale?
Anything else?0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »Yes. Right on all counts. All other measurements the same although I know for a fact my pants are looser. They're new - still with the tags on - and they're my daily progress check. I broke up with the scale since it was playing with my head when it was showing just up and down the same 1-3 lbs. Plus I can see start to see v shape around my lower abdomen - hip bones? - if that makes sense, and definition in my shoulders and back. Yeah - that detox thing floored me. - cayenne and lemon water?!?! Sigh!! For days?! Nope.
So....should I keep going at 1400? Or
See if I can actually lose at 1200? My goal weight is 128 - just 5 lbs. 125 Would to be great to see but I have a curvy build. Or
Add more cardio? Or
Shaddup and stop focusing on the scale?
Anything else?
What is so fancy about 125? How will your life be markedly better at that weight?0 -
Good question. I had to think about that. I'm picturing that at 125 or 128, with the loss of that additional 5-8 lbs, that the little pouch I have on my lower belly will be finally finally gone. No pouch, no muffin top. Nothin. Does that make sense? I feel at my most fit when I have no belly.0
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stroutman81 wrote: »xbowhunter wrote: »Wow this post really opened my eyes. I used to be a cardio junky. Little did I know I was doing my body more harm than good. Now I am doing the stronglifts 5x5 program & loving it. I still do some light cardio daily (1hr walks with the dog) & I have discovered that rowing machine @ the gym is a great work-out too. No need for me to pound the pavement running anymore.
Last time I checked I was 159lbs & my height 5'7'' so I am on the high end of most BMI scales.
I am looking forward to gaining my strength & being healthy back because after-all that is what this is all about.
Cheers...
Glad you found the post helpful!
What sort of harm were you finding the cardio doing to your body?
My main form of cardio before was running on the road. I had many injuries (knees & Siatica nerve damage). Too many miles of running & zero strength training is what I did for years.
I stopped running early in 2015 & gained 25lbs because I was still eating a high volume of fatty food with no exercise. I was a mess & have turned things around in January of this year & losing weight & feeling great.
I still have about 5lbs to go but truthfully I am happy now & don't care to weigh myself anymore. As long as my clothes fit good & I feel good that's all that matters to me. I will keep lifting 3x per week & light cardio for now...0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »Good question. I had to think about that. I'm picturing that at 125 or 128, with the loss of that additional 5-8 lbs, that the little pouch I have on my lower belly will be finally finally gone. No pouch, no muffin top. Nothin. Does that make sense? I feel at my most fit when I have no belly.
My advice?
If you're seeing as much progress as you mentioned, don't fix what ain't broken. Ride it out until it stops giving you the goods. This isn't about eating as little as possible to hurry results. It's about eating as much as possible while still moving toward your goals to enhance sustainability.
And make your goals more process based than outcome based. "I'm someone who eats X calories per day, lifts X days per week, bases each meal around protein and veggies, etc, etc" tends to provide a lot more mileage than "I want to weigh X"
Lastly, so you know, I have clients who reached a place they were happy with where their weight never changed. Food for thought.2 -
Excellent advice. Never thought of it that way. Sigh! What is it about that SCALE weight that holds so much power over folks who intellectually know better?!?! Thank you for your time and feedback. A weight has been lifted off...pun intended.
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Why is this being answered 6 years later?0
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JanetYellen wrote: »Why is this being answered 6 years later?
Stroutman threads are pure gold.0 -
xbowhunter wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »xbowhunter wrote: »Wow this post really opened my eyes. I used to be a cardio junky. Little did I know I was doing my body more harm than good. Now I am doing the stronglifts 5x5 program & loving it. I still do some light cardio daily (1hr walks with the dog) & I have discovered that rowing machine @ the gym is a great work-out too. No need for me to pound the pavement running anymore.
Last time I checked I was 159lbs & my height 5'7'' so I am on the high end of most BMI scales.
I am looking forward to gaining my strength & being healthy back because after-all that is what this is all about.
Cheers...
Glad you found the post helpful!
What sort of harm were you finding the cardio doing to your body?
My main form of cardio before was running on the road. I had many injuries (knees & Siatica nerve damage). Too many miles of running & zero strength training is what I did for years.
I stopped running early in 2015 & gained 25lbs because I was still eating a high volume of fatty food with no exercise. I was a mess & have turned things around in January of this year & losing weight & feeling great.
I still have about 5lbs to go but truthfully I am happy now & don't care to weigh myself anymore. As long as my clothes fit good & I feel good that's all that matters to me. I will keep lifting 3x per week & light cardio for now...
Good attitude. One that definitely resonates with my own journey.
And yeah, road running will beat the hell out of some people. I know my body doesn't forgive me for it. Some seem more resilient to it but you can't deny that it's pretty injurious for most people.0 -
CeeBeeSlim wrote: »Excellent advice. Never thought of it that way. Sigh! What is it about that SCALE weight that holds so much power over folks who intellectually know better?!?! Thank you for your time and feedback. A weight has been lifted off...pun intended.
Haha! Well, you're not alone. Most everyone feels a certain sort of way when they see that number staring back at them. It's just so raw in terms of feedback and our culture puts a lot of stock in it. Essentially we've been brainwashed to see that number as a pass/fail metric. So even if we know better, subconsciously the programming is there to control our emotions.
I have some clients not weigh at all.
I have other clients weigh daily but only focus on the longer term average, which I have spreadsheets that do all the work for them and all the emphasis is placed on the far right column where the % change over time is.
There's no right or wrong obviously... but I think it's important to experiment in order to find what jives with you best.
And above all else, track a lot of metrics. Scale, pictures, measurements, habits, etc. Not everything is going to win simultaneously but if you track enough things you're going to find something to find a win in. And as long as you're winning in some fashion, you're moving forward.
Even with me... if I'm in a fat loss phase and don't see meaningful progress on the scale or in measurements over a block of time, but over that same time period I figured out through a daily reflection habit that I do better when I put the lower calorie volume based food at eye level in the fridge or that I tend to say a certain negative line to myself over and over... well then I won. I can use that data to continue evolving my process/journey.0
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