Relatively light people trying to get leaner

sureitstime

Can I ask you if you do any cardio exercises? You mentioned upthread that you are not a big fan of running. Right now I am struggling with a similar situation. I love to run but I am getting injured ever so often. So, I have to rethink about how to get my cardio in.

stroutman81

JanetYellen wrote: »

Why is this being answered 6 years later?

The idea of an ongoing conversation and a forum thread morphing into something else is lost on you? Is that what you're saying?

stroutman81

sureitstime wrote: »

Can I ask you if you do any cardio exercises? You mentioned upthread that you are not a big fan of running. Right now I am struggling with a similar situation. I love to run but I am getting injured ever so often. So, I have to rethink about how to get my cardio in.

Are you asking if I do cardio personally? Or are you asking about my programming for clients?

How about I just answer both.

I essentially have two modes, personally. There's the everyday mode where I'm not training for anything in particular besides health and physique. In these cases, I don't structure cardio programming. But I do active stuff regularly. The way I see it, resistance training supersedes cardio when it comes to physique training, so I'll apply structure to that. And leaving the cardio unstructured makes if feel like the opposite of a chore. I walk daily. And I'll sprinkle in shooting hoops, gardening, having a catch, etc.

Nutrition takes care of my weight loss or gain... depending on the goal at hand. Lifting takes care of my muscle. And cardio, at least how I view it is extra movement and fun.

Now things get a lot more structured when I'm training for something specific - like a backpacking or mountaineering trip. But I don't think that's of interest to you.

As far as client go... it varies pretty wildly depending on the person.

I prefer to keep it similar to my approach since it's less taxing mentally and physically. But I have smaller clients who, by default, have smaller calorie allotments who need to get "more deficit" by way of activity rather than less food. Or I have clients who genuinely like running... so I'm not going to tell them they can't. Or of course I work with some athletes who need specific conditioning for their sport.

So yeah, it's an "as needed" sort of thing, but I tend to lean toward the minimum effective dose.

But if you're finding running to be tripping you up, obviously there are endless ways of getting some continuous movement in. From low/no impact machines to high repetition/low rest resistance training.

stroutman81

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

sureitstime

stroutman81 wrote: »

sureitstime wrote: »

Can I ask you if you do any cardio exercises? You mentioned upthread that you are not a big fan of running. Right now I am struggling with a similar situation. I love to run but I am getting injured ever so often. So, I have to rethink about how to get my cardio in.

Are you asking if I do cardio personally? Or are you asking about my programming for clients?

How about I just answer both.

I essentially have two modes, personally. There's the everyday mode where I'm not training for anything in particular besides health and physique. In these cases, I don't structure cardio programming. But I do active stuff regularly. The way I see it, resistance training supersedes cardio when it comes to physique training, so I'll apply structure to that. And leaving the cardio unstructured makes if feel like the opposite of a chore. I walk daily. And I'll sprinkle in shooting hoops, gardening, having a catch, etc.

Nutrition takes care of my weight loss or gain... depending on the goal at hand. Lifting takes care of my muscle. And cardio, at least how I view it is extra movement and fun.

Now things get a lot more structured when I'm training for something specific - like a backpacking or mountaineering trip. But I don't think that's of interest to you.

As far as client go... it varies pretty wildly depending on the person.

I prefer to keep it similar to my approach since it's less taxing mentally and physically. But I have smaller clients who, by default, have smaller calorie allotments who need to get "more deficit" by way of activity rather than less food. Or I have clients who genuinely like running... so I'm not going to tell them they can't. Or of course I work with some athletes who need specific conditioning for their sport.

So yeah, it's an "as needed" sort of thing, but I tend to lean toward the minimum effective dose.

But if you're finding running to be tripping you up, obviously there are endless ways of getting some continuous movement in. From low/no impact machines to high repetition/low rest resistance training.

Thank you for the detailed reply. Yeah, I guess it comes down to the individual person as no one answer or training program fits all. I guess I'll have to try out different options and see what works for me. Keep this thread alive, its a goldmine of information!

Orphia

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

Great blog post!

stroutman81

Orphia wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

Great blog post!

Glad you approve!

tigerblue

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

This should be required reading for anyone who is at a healthy weight. Thanks!

Thanks for acknowledging that acquiring that "next level" of fitness/body will require an amount of commitment not everyone will do or should want to do! I read posts where people are "shamed" because they are not willing to so sacrifice! It is a matter of priorities! Your honesty is refreshing.

Also thanks for acknowledging above that small folks might require some cardio to produce a larger deficit, rather than just eating less. Absolutely true for small, middle aged, small framed ladies! It is a choice every day. Some days I will choose to eat less and skip the cardio ( yesterday) and some days I will choose to eat more and run (special occasions when I know dessert or other treats will be included!). Sometimes I will run because it is beautiful outside and I want to! Sometimes the balance between food, lifting, and running is hard to find! And sometimes I will go over in one category or another. And that is life.

stroutman81

tigerblue wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

This should be required reading for anyone who is at a healthy weight. Thanks!

Thanks for acknowledging that acquiring that "next level" of fitness/body will require an amount of commitment not everyone will do or should want to do! I read posts where people are "shamed" because they are not willing to so sacrifice! It is a matter of priorities! Your honesty is refreshing.

Also thanks for acknowledging above that small folks might require some cardio to produce a larger deficit, rather than just eating less. Absolutely true for small, middle aged, small framed ladies! It is a choice every day. Some days I will choose to eat less and skip the cardio ( yesterday) and some days I will choose to eat more and run (special occasions when I know dessert or other treats will be included!). Sometimes I will run because it is beautiful outside and I want to! Sometimes the balance between food, lifting, and running is hard to find! And sometimes I will go over in one category or another. And that is life.

Refreshing take! And glad that you enjoyed the article. Sometimes I feel like a very tiny person with a very tiny voice yelling into the face of a giant hurricane. I'm not a good networker and I'm not a good marketer. I forgot how I can skirt around these facts by coming onto places like MFP and sharing my thoughts. It's refreshing and I think I need to start visiting here more frequently.

niniundlapin

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

Agree with the above about reading it at healthy weight!! I'm really glad to read this post and thank you for sharing!

I'm currently at my lowest weight and probably the best physique since entering adulthood (physically or mentally, lol) and often have this "what to do next" question in my mind. I mean, I'm definitely not super fit nor ready for competition, but my satisfaction level for my self image has greatly improved compared to my low-self-esteem teenage years and I know I'd never want to lose that vibe. That (whether to go after an idealized self image or some unrealistic goals) could be a huge pressure and sometimes exceed the original purpose of changing activity level or lifestyle, and even jeopardize the quality of life...

Thank you again and this really keeps my mind open

RebeccaNaegle

Im a girl, 5' 4", 119lbs, fairly lean, and it takes a month to lose a real pound sometimes. ugh!

lucyee

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

Thanks for sharing this. I'm in that place where I've achieved a healthy weight, a good fitness level, but not an ideal physique, and I'm letting it get to me more than necessary. I wanted to get to this weight in order to generally be healthier, more able to enjoy life - having achieved this, I think I need to re-prioritise a bit. Being a good partner, friend, employee etc... needs to take priority over looking great in a bikini. Thanks for the wake up call!

Insanity2bSane

Bump

stroutman81

niniundlapin wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

Agree with the above about reading it at healthy weight!! I'm really glad to read this post and thank you for sharing!

I'm currently at my lowest weight and probably the best physique since entering adulthood (physically or mentally, lol) and often have this "what to do next" question in my mind. I mean, I'm definitely not super fit nor ready for competition, but my satisfaction level for my self image has greatly improved compared to my low-self-esteem teenage years and I know I'd never want to lose that vibe. That (whether to go after an idealized self image or some unrealistic goals) could be a huge pressure and sometimes exceed the original purpose of changing activity level or lifestyle, and even jeopardize the quality of life...

Thank you again and this really keeps my mind open

You're welcome! Thanks for sharing your story.

stroutman81

RebeccaParmenter wrote: »

Im a girl, 5' 4", 119lbs, fairly lean, and it takes a month to lose a real pound sometimes. ugh!

The real question is, what does losing a "real" pound mean to you? What are you aiming for?

stroutman81

lucyee wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

I figured this thread would be a good place to post my most recent blog update since I'm better there are a lot of perfectionists that visit:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/you-abs-820958

Thanks for sharing this. I'm in that place where I've achieved a healthy weight, a good fitness level, but not an ideal physique, and I'm letting it get to me more than necessary. I wanted to get to this weight in order to generally be healthier, more able to enjoy life - having achieved this, I think I need to re-prioritise a bit. Being a good partner, friend, employee etc... needs to take priority over looking great in a bikini. Thanks for the wake up call!

Thanks for chiming in. And you're welcome.

Life's a short ride, right? And being ripped produces only so much happiness. Not that we shouldn't continually strive to improve. I'm not against that. But our culture has a funny way of hacking our minds to base all of our happiness on the reflection in the mirror. And what's worse, it tends to set the benchmark at very unrealistic standards. Where, in order to comply with the benchmark, life must equal fitness and vice versa.

Come on, man!

If fitness is putting food on your table... than maybe. But me? No thanks. I'll continue to engage in fitness. I'll continue to strive for improvement. But I'll base my self-worth and happiness on far more than my body. And I'll be damned if this is going to be about judgement. No way. Rather it's about learning and self-growth. Which, by the way, requires failure.

tigerblue

When adding some cardio in to increase TDEE (either to help create a deficit, or just to allow you to eat more yummy food when you are a small person), what is a reasonable amount? (Currently I'm trying to hit 4 days of week lifting, 2 days cardio--usually running about 3-4 miles--and one rest day. Sometimes I add a 30 min. walk or some HIIT cardio (15 mins or so)to the lifting days, but lifting is first priority). Does that sound right?

robininfl

Whew, this is a long but interesting thread!

I'm almost 5'9" and had gotten to a too-low weight a few years ago, around 122lb, bodyfat measured at 20%, was 33-28-35 with 18" thighs. Looked pretty good, I like being skinny, and was lean and aerobically fit but felt like this too light for health, I have a mental line of 125lb, as that was the healthy weight I reached as a young woman after overcoming disordered eating, and I stayed that weight for a loooong time, except when pregnant, and briefly when bigger (almost 150) after the last baby, but it settled back down to the 125 with some exercise, so that is my ideal sustainable skinny but healthy weight.

So..I made an effort to gain some muscle and more fitness in general. Did jogging and yoga instead of lighter aerobics, and this worked, my legs and butt got bigger, my arms and back got muscle, I can do pull-ups and push-ups, am unquestionably stronger, but overshot my weight goal of 130. Now at 136lb, body is 35-29-37 with 21" thighs - I know my proportions are better (though the increase in bust measurement is mostly lats, of course, not boobs) but that inch more in the waist drives me crazy. I still measure at 20% bodyfat, which I think is healthy, and am not looking to be an hourglass - never was in the first place - just would like to have the same measurement around the middle as when I was skinny!

I feel really like it's a vain thing to want more than what I have when I'm so close to the body I'd choose, and it's a small difference but d*mmit, if I could have a 28" waist when I was skinny, why can't I have it when I am carrying more muscle? I know that waist increase is probably the fat, not muscle, and it makes it harder to fit in my clothes!

So - does anyone know - how much fat on a body is the right amount? Is it really a %, as it's usually measured? Or is it a healthy number of pounds of bodyfat for a given height, regardless of lean mass? If I wanted to get real serious about it, would it be healthy to lose the 2 or 3 pounds of fat which I am sure went to the middle of me when gaining the mostly-muscle? Or do I need those fat pounds now, because I have that extra muscle?

In practice, please note I do not live like this sounds. I eat healthy and moderately and work out in a healthy and moderate way and let it fall out how it does, and am pretty happy with how I am built. But this question - can I have the skinny waist measurement along with the increased mass in other places - has been bugging me for months now. It seems to be an impossible goal. Is it an impossible goal?

tigerblue

^^^^^ Good question @robininfl I wonder the same thing. At my 5'almost 3" height, I got down to 112 lbs, which in retrospect was too low. Also, I had no muscle. I wasn't skinny fat so much as just skinny. But the measurements were 38-28-38. Now at 134 lbs I am 40-30-40 I would love to get the waist measurement back down to 28 but it is like I am just thick through the middle now.

pviharris

This is honestly the best thread I have ever read on myfitnesspal. Thank you so much for this!

IGbnat24

You could also help them build muscle, thereby speeding their metabolism, increasing lean body mass, and reducing body fat % even if maintaining their current weight...

I'm 125lbs and maintain easily on 2200 calories with 30min workouts 5x/week. Muscle for the win.

robingmurphy

tigerblue wrote: »

When adding some cardio in to increase TDEE (either to help create a deficit, or just to allow you to eat more yummy food when you are a small person), what is a reasonable amount? (Currently I'm trying to hit 4 days of week lifting, 2 days cardio--usually running about 3-4 miles--and one rest day. Sometimes I add a 30 min. walk or some HIIT cardio (15 mins or so)to the lifting days, but lifting is first priority). Does that sound right?

I think that sounds totally reasonable. As you increase endurance, you might want to add a little more. You'll get a little faster and be able to run a little farther in the same time. You'll also build your tolerance to running and could add another mile or another day if you wanted. It's nice to have the extra calories!

I've been jogging for quite a while, and nowdays I run 3-4 miles 5 or 6 days a week (sometimes an extra mile or so on pretty, sunny days) and find that quite easy. I also lift weights 3 days a week.

Orphia

Bump!

stroutman81

tigerblue wrote: »

When adding some cardio in to increase TDEE (either to help create a deficit, or just to allow you to eat more yummy food when you are a small person), what is a reasonable amount? (Currently I'm trying to hit 4 days of week lifting, 2 days cardio--usually running about 3-4 miles--and one rest day. Sometimes I add a 30 min. walk or some HIIT cardio (15 mins or so)to the lifting days, but lifting is first priority). Does that sound right?

Sounds about right to me in general terms. Though I'll say that mileage varies from person to person. I'd try and rid yourself of there being some optimal amount and adopt the self-experimentation mindset where you're simply trying stuff out. That's loss in a lot of today's fitness information since everyone's trying to sell you The Way... but I've coached over 500 people in my career and I can say, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that embracing experimentation and learning to "fail forward" are some of the biggest cornerstones.

stroutman81

robininfl wrote: »

Whew, this is a long but interesting thread!

I'm almost 5'9" and had gotten to a too-low weight a few years ago, around 122lb, bodyfat measured at 20%, was 33-28-35 with 18" thighs. Looked pretty good, I like being skinny, and was lean and aerobically fit but felt like this too light for health, I have a mental line of 125lb, as that was the healthy weight I reached as a young woman after overcoming disordered eating, and I stayed that weight for a loooong time, except when pregnant, and briefly when bigger (almost 150) after the last baby, but it settled back down to the 125 with some exercise, so that is my ideal sustainable skinny but healthy weight.

So..I made an effort to gain some muscle and more fitness in general. Did jogging and yoga instead of lighter aerobics, and this worked, my legs and butt got bigger, my arms and back got muscle, I can do pull-ups and push-ups, am unquestionably stronger, but overshot my weight goal of 130. Now at 136lb, body is 35-29-37 with 21" thighs - I know my proportions are better (though the increase in bust measurement is mostly lats, of course, not boobs) but that inch more in the waist drives me crazy. I still measure at 20% bodyfat, which I think is healthy, and am not looking to be an hourglass - never was in the first place - just would like to have the same measurement around the middle as when I was skinny!

I feel really like it's a vain thing to want more than what I have when I'm so close to the body I'd choose, and it's a small difference but d*mmit, if I could have a 28" waist when I was skinny, why can't I have it when I am carrying more muscle? I know that waist increase is probably the fat, not muscle, and it makes it harder to fit in my clothes!

So - does anyone know - how much fat on a body is the right amount? Is it really a %, as it's usually measured? Or is it a healthy number of pounds of bodyfat for a given height, regardless of lean mass? If I wanted to get real serious about it, would it be healthy to lose the 2 or 3 pounds of fat which I am sure went to the middle of me when gaining the mostly-muscle? Or do I need those fat pounds now, because I have that extra muscle?

In practice, please note I do not live like this sounds. I eat healthy and moderately and work out in a healthy and moderate way and let it fall out how it does, and am pretty happy with how I am built. But this question - can I have the skinny waist measurement along with the increased mass in other places - has been bugging me for months now. It seems to be an impossible goal. Is it an impossible goal?

Phew, I'm happy you added that last paragraph! Up until that point I was readying my guns to shoot a bunch of common sense at you about not worrying about your proportions to the exact inch.

I'll keep it really simple. Obviously we don't pick and choose where our body stores fat. And anytime you go adding weight, even if you're doing everything correctly, some of it is going to be fat. Which is why for the diehards who are truly trying to optimize their physiques... they go through phases of losing fat while doing their best to preserve as much muscle as possible followed by phases of building muscle while trying to minimize as much fat gain as possible.

That's where you are right now.

And if you wanted to continue the trend, you'd simply move back into the next fat loss phase while trying to maximize muscle preservation. Only this time the base of muscle you're striving to maintain is larger than the last fat loss phase.

Make sense?

Or you can just say screw it, embrace how you are right now - especially if you're happy and feel good - and dedicate all this energy to other things that are important to you in your life. And I say that with as little judgment as possible... I just want to make sure it's seen as a clear and logical option as well.

stroutman81

pviharris wrote: »

This is honestly the best thread I have ever read on myfitnesspal. Thank you so much for this!

Awesome, I'm glad you dig it!

stroutman81

I'm just going to leave this here as something tells me there is a lot of people who visit this thread who can stand hearing this message.

http://body-improvements.com/2016/05/01/so-youve-been-counting-calories-for-1600-days-huh/

sunnybeaches105

Great post. I'm marking to link

stroutman81

sunnybeaches105 wrote: »

Great post. I'm marking to link

Thanks! I appreciate you checking it out.

stroutman81

Trying to get a new MFP community off the ground. I received a lot of support in this thread so figured I'd post it here to see if anyone was interested in joining. Thanks for the consideration!

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/114508-my-best-me