Relatively light people trying to get leaner

stroutman81

WoW u seem to understand this way more than me!

It's my job to understand this stuff, silly. Ask me to fix a car, get you out of trouble with the law, or build you a piece of furniture and be prepared to see a dunce in action!

Can you help me set my goals? I'm 5'1" 134lbs and want to loose 16 lbs... well 17 after going to Red Lobster last night!!! :sad: :frown:

First order of business, in my opinion, would be to ditch the target weight and focus, instead, on process-oriented goals and/or performance oriented goals.

I find that these sorts of goals drive success without anxiety while weight based goals drive people insane. They're constantly anxious, worried about an extremely arbitrary number on the scale which is pointless, and generally wind up frustrated. If they were to focus on the motions rather than the finish line, they'd be much happier and successful in my experience.

My clients goals, for example, generally looks something like:

1. Lift more weight each week in my primary lifts to drive increases in strength and improvements in physique.

2. Eat 3 meals per day (or 5 or 6 or whatever the person finds suitable for their schedule) that have a foundation of protein and veggies and/or fruits.

3. Hit the gym 5 days each week for the next 8 weeks.

The list is endless. And they can and do get much more specific than this. But the point is, FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. By that, I mean if you're consistently adhering to the basic principles of proper diet and exercise, your body will follow suit. Unfortunately, many people focus on these things in the reverse order. They focus on their bodies and weight and eventually get upset, depressed, impatient or whatever and the process falls off the map.

Just my 2 cents.

I set my calories to 1310 but I am still hungry.

Firstly, I wouldn't worry about 1310. Round to the nearest 50 or 100, so make it 1300. I promise you, even if you think you're accurate, you're not nearly accurate enough to be worrying about 10 calories. Secondly, your target isn't bad without knowing more about you and your lifestyle and activity.

So if you're hungry, maybe it's what you're eating rather than how much you're eating that is leaving you unsatisfied.

stroutman81

My boyfriend has started me on a free weights programme for 25 mins 3 times a week - I also run 3 times a week. I'm seeing it as a start...

I've taken backinthenines advice and ordered the New Rules of Lifting for Women, and am looking forward to reading more!

Great job. For those who are looking for reading material, feel free to email me for suggestions. I read pretty much everything out there in this field.

backinthenines

Interesting what you said about the Cosgroves, and plagiarism is indeed never acceptable!!

I totally agree on your feedback about goal setting. I only race for fun now and not for PBs, and nowhere near the distances I used to. I'm simply not mechanically efficient enough (pronation, hypermobility etc) and it's just not worth the injuries & subsequent time out.

I now train for health, functional strength & physique. My split in terms of time is around 50% weights & core, 30% cardio and 20% flexibility. Seems to work fine.

DianaPowerUp

Thanks for a great post, Stroutman81. I was getting a little discouraged this wk, after coming off of no weight loss this wk, since I'm still under calories daily (I leave myself room, b/c I figure I underestimate some), and I'm working out 5-6 days/wk, 1-2 hrs/session, doing cardio (spin usu.), and weights/strength training, and yoga/pilates. It seems to me like the fat should just start dripping off me, but I can see where it may take me longer, since I don't have too far to go (but far enough where I'd like to see something on the scale!). My gf today said, "Well, maybe you're building muscle....", but I keep getting this message, "At this rate, you'll weigh (my goal) in 5 wks." at the bottom of my entry page. But not at this rate, in real life, it seems! Boo hoo.

stroutman81

Interesting what you said about the Cosgroves, and plagiarism is indeed never acceptable!!

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/miscellany/plagiarism-part-2.html

I totally agree on your feedback about goal setting. I only race for fun now and not for PBs, and nowhere near the distances I used to. I'm simply not mechanically efficient enough (pronation, hypermobility etc) and it's just not worth the injuries & subsequent time out.

I admire your ability and willingness to assess yourself objectively and make informed decisions based on said assessment. That's something many folks have a lot of trouble with.

I now train for health, functional strength & physique. My split in terms of time is around 50% weights & core, 30% cardio and 20% flexibility. Seems to work fine.

I'd say that sounds great.

Years ago I used to train for muscular development. That was my sole concern. And I was a scrawny runt. Over a lot of years I went from 150s and 160s to 205. Felt like crap at 205 though I was muscular. Felt heavy and slow. Granted, there are plenty of guys who can feel excellent at that weight but it wasn't for me. With time (and experience) being muscular and big was no longer important to me.

My primary focus for me is "functional fitness" for the things I love - primarily being strong and being able to climb mountains safely and effectively.

Someone on my forum not long ago asked me why I train the way I do. My response was:

"I want to be able to punch harder, jump higher and run faster than the next guy so that when civilization as we know it ends I'm able to keep my family alive." Of course it's just a joke, but I certainly ditched the vanity training years ago. And funnily enough, my physique didn't pay much of a price. My mental health is much better though.

stroutman81

Thanks for a great post, Stroutman81. I was getting a little discouraged this wk, after coming off of no weight loss this wk, since I'm still under calories daily (I leave myself room, b/c I figure I underestimate some), and I'm working out 5-6 days/wk, 1-2 hrs/session, doing cardio (spin usu.), and weights/strength training, and yoga/pilates. It seems to me like the fat should just start dripping off me, but I can see where it may take me longer, since I don't have too far to go (but far enough where I'd like to see something on the scale!). My gf today said, "Well, maybe you're building muscle....", but I keep getting this message, "At this rate, you'll weigh (my goal) in 5 wks." at the bottom of my entry page. But not at this rate, in real life, it seems! Boo hoo.

Without knowing exactly what you're doing, what your stats are, and how much you're eating, it's hard to say anything besides it looks like you're doing a lot while dieting.

Very generally speaking, I'd be aiming for 2-3 days of strength training per week, 1-2 high intensity cardio days per week, and 2-4 low/moderate intensity days per week.

Your mileage my vary though as some people will be able to get away with more than this and others less.

Regardless though, as I noted above, worry less about the scale and more about the process. And if you're going to get emotionally involved with the numbers, focus on other things on top of weight including measurements, photos, etc.

DianaPowerUp

Thanks for a great post, Stroutman81. I was getting a little discouraged this wk, after coming off of no weight loss this wk, since I'm still under calories daily (I leave myself room, b/c I figure I underestimate some), and I'm working out 5-6 days/wk, 1-2 hrs/session, doing cardio (spin usu.), and weights/strength training, and yoga/pilates. It seems to me like the fat should just start dripping off me, but I can see where it may take me longer, since I don't have too far to go (but far enough where I'd like to see something on the scale!). My gf today said, "Well, maybe you're building muscle....", but I keep getting this message, "At this rate, you'll weigh (my goal) in 5 wks." at the bottom of my entry page. But not at this rate, in real life, it seems! Boo hoo.

Without knowing exactly what you're doing, what your stats are, and how much you're eating, it's hard to say anything besides it looks like you're doing a lot while dieting.

Very generally speaking, I'd be aiming for 2-3 days of strength training per week, 1-2 high intensity cardio days per week, and 2-4 low/moderate intensity days per week.

Your mileage my vary though as some people will be able to get away with more than this and others less.

Regardless though, as I noted above, worry less about the scale and more about the process. And if you're going to get emotionally involved with the numbers, focus on other things on top of weight including measurements, photos, etc.

I'll make my diary public - you can look if you're interested. Maybe that will shed some light on this mystery....

stroutman81

What are your stats? How many calories per day are you eating? How many grams of proteins, carbs and fats are you eating on average per day? What's your exact exercise schedule, assuming you have one? How active are you outside of the gym? How stressful is your life?

I wouldn't say there's much of a mystery so far. For starters, I already mentioned it seems like you're doing a lot. I'd be willing to bet your average daily calorie intake is too low relative to the support that would typically be required for your exercise load. And what makes it even less mysterious is the fact that we're talking about a week's worth of time. That's not enough time to assess anything on the fat loss front... especially when you're not obese to begin with.

rybo

Pretty interesting thread. I didnt read every post but enough.
A lot of this fits me, I've never been what most would consider overweight, but as I got older I just wanted to be as lean and as fit as I possibly could be. I've always been a runner, but it was sprints. Then I got heavy into weight lifting. Now I mostly run. Trails, roads, everything. But I also like keeping some muscularity, so I do a lot of body weight exercises too. And yoga for the stretching and overall way it makes me feel. Right now I've reached a maintainable goal, I could probably lean up a little bit more, but i am happy with how I look now.

stroutman81

Pretty interesting thread. I didnt read every post but enough.
A lot of this fits me, I've never been what most would consider overweight, but as I got older I just wanted to be as lean and as fit as I possibly could be. I've always been a runner, but it was sprints. Then I got heavy into weight lifting. Now I mostly run. Trails, roads, everything. But I also like keeping some muscularity, so I do a lot of body weight exercises too. And yoga for the stretching and overall way it makes me feel. Right now I've reached a maintainable goal, I could probably lean up a little bit more, but i am happy with how I look now.

So have you found that you've maintained your muscle once you moved to body weight exercises?

Generally speaking, if you want to maintain muscle while reducing the time dedicated to weight training, you should decrease the volume - not the weight. Keeping intensity (weight) high gives your body a reason to hold onto the muscle. Again, generally speaking, reducing intensity generally leads to a concomitant reduction in muscle mass since you're no longer providing your body a reason to hold onto it.

Now there are certainly some caveats to this.

For instance, if you never developed an appreciable level of strength and/or muscle mass via heavy weight training, then you've nothing to lose by going to a calisthenic-based approach.

Curious about your experience is all.

Thanks.

gnutrifitness

BUmp it for later!

hpsnickers1

Calories in vs Calories out is the most important factor in weight loss/maintenance/fitness/etc..

If you don't eat breakfast but make up the calories later in the day it truly does not matter.

The myth of eating 5-6 times a day to keep metabolism up is just that, a myth. The only thing that helps with is to keep you full so are not starving and do not binge at the next meal. This is all mental really. If you can control it than you are no worse off than someone who eats breakfast.

As for working out at home, if you get a few basic things you can most certainly do strength training at home. Resistance bands and dumbbells in a few sizes will get you started. My husband bought a set of dumbbell bars, a straight bar, then a few different weight plates and he can change it all up. I think he may have paid $100 total but he's set, he never needs a gym.

Thank you for this. I've been reading through this post. I had a good breakfast and I'm sitting here at lunch time thinking I need to eat something but I'm not even hungry. You helped me decide on what to do.

rybo

So have you found that you've maintained your muscle once you moved to body weight exercises?

Generally speaking, if you want to maintain muscle while reducing the time dedicated to weight training, you should decrease the volume - not the weight. Keeping intensity (weight) high gives your body a reason to hold onto the muscle. Again, generally speaking, reducing intensity generally leads to a concomitant reduction in muscle mass since you're no longer providing your body a reason to hold onto it.

Now there are certainly some caveats to this.

For instance, if you never developed an appreciable level of strength and/or muscle mass via heavy weight training, then you've nothing to lose by going to a calisthenic-based approach.

Curious about your experience is all.

Thanks.

Yes and no. There was a big gap where I did almost no weight lifting at all. I am significantly smaller than I was back when I lifted, but still fairly muscular. I just started on the body weight thing about 4-6 months ago just to keep from getting too small. And so far I feel I've at least maintained. I don't want or expect to get any where near the size I used to be 5 years ago.

mmnichol

I've been reading over all the posts, very interesting, and i have a question that is hard to address and not sure if you can help or not but I thought I'd ask you. I'm a 53 YO woman, currently weigh 146 lbs. I've been on this site for almost two years now. Last year I worked really hard a calorie restriction, 1200 daily, and daily exercise, and lost 10 lbs getting down to 140. I did what ever i could fit in during the winter and more aggressive in the summer, hill intervals, which was a good work out for me. Unforunately, i had some health issues which left me weak and tired and unable to exercise for months. Sadly I put 10 lbs back on. So I'm motivated to get those 10 lbs off again, but still confused about what will work calorie wise. I've tried 1000 a day but unable to maintain that. now at 1200. Its winter and I dont like to exercise outside so am currently doing 10 min interval videos i found on fatlossnow.com. So i guess the question is, what calorie level should I try? I am post menopausal, have a very small frame, 4.5 in wrist, 5'5" in height though, with very little muscle mass which i believe is effecting my weight loss goals. Any suggestions?

rnroadrunner

bump

schobert101

Bump

rnroadrunner

excellent read! Thank you so much for helping dispell so many misconceptons. I would like to see this put out in front for all the newbies to see. I just stumbled across this post today.:drinker:

mjheinrich

bump

robin52077

marulm

bump for later

suziehomemaker

bump

stroutman81

Thank you for this. I've been reading through this post. I had a good breakfast and I'm sitting here at lunch time thinking I need to eat something but I'm not even hungry. You helped me decide on what to do.

And that's just it. In general, researchers are right when they conclude that lack of food knowledge isn't a primary driver in obesity. People generally know what they should and should not be eating. However, I argue that there's still a huge nutrition education issue happening and it extends beyond the basics of calories and nutrients.

With the attention that diet and exercise gets in today's media and culture, a rigid set of food rules has emerged that stray away from the basics. The basics aren't sexy and they're not new. Time tested or not, today it's all about spinning various rules regardless of importance so marketers can fatten their wallets.

That said, these rigid guidelines becomes mechanisms of anxiety for most dieters. The more rules there are, the more dieters feel as if they're walking the tight rope. And I believe this plays a large part in why there's so much on again/off again mentalities - among other things of course.

stroutman81

Yes and no. There was a big gap where I did almost no weight lifting at all. I am significantly smaller than I was back when I lifted, but still fairly muscular. I just started on the body weight thing about 4-6 months ago just to keep from getting too small. And so far I feel I've at least maintained. I don't want or expect to get any where near the size I used to be 5 years ago.

That's good.

The only reason I brought it up is that in most cases, going lighter while dieting backfires in people. It sounds like you're one of the statistical outliers. This long held notion of lighter weights and higher reps for toning has really wreaked havoc on a lot of people, especially relatively lean folks trying to get leaner. Biologically our bodies don't want to be lean and muscular and by removing heavy loading from the equation, we're removing a lot of the reason why your body would actually hold onto muscle.

This is partly why so many women wind up reaching their goal weights and being unhappy with what they see staring back at them in the mirror. They emphasized body weight over body composition. The latter, unless there's some crazy good genetics going on behind the scene, needs progressive and heavy loading in order to optimize.

Of course poor expectations are also to blame for why so many folks tend to be frustrated when they reach their goal weights.

stroutman81

I've been reading over all the posts, very interesting, and i have a question that is hard to address and not sure if you can help or not but I thought I'd ask you. I'm a 53 YO woman, currently weigh 146 lbs. I've been on this site for almost two years now. Last year I worked really hard a calorie restriction, 1200 daily, and daily exercise, and lost 10 lbs getting down to 140.

Just so you know, 1200 calories daily, depending on how much exercise you were actually doing, is a bit low in my experience. I'm replying as I read along, so I'm sure I'll have more to say at the end.

I did what ever i could fit in during the winter and more aggressive in the summer, hill intervals, which was a good work out for me. Unforunately, i had some health issues which left me weak and tired and unable to exercise for months. Sadly I put 10 lbs back on.

Lots of hill sprints coupled with whatever else you were doing... that just feeds into my above statement.

So I'm motivated to get those 10 lbs off again, but still confused about what will work calorie wise. I've tried 1000 a day but unable to maintain that. now at 1200. Its winter and I dont like to exercise outside so am currently doing 10 min interval videos i found on fatlossnow.com. So i guess the question is, what calorie level should I try? I am post menopausal, have a very small frame, 4.5 in wrist, 5'5" in height though, with very little muscle mass which i believe is effecting my weight loss goals. Any suggestions?

Here's a VERY GENERAL thought for you.

With my clients, especially my athletes who want to lose fat but also have crazy workloads, my calorie targets for them hover around 12 calories per pound. If I go lower, in general, it taps into recovery ability, performance, etc. Remember, we are working with a finite capacity to deal with stress, physiological and psychological.

Now you might be thinking, "Yea, but he's working with serious athletes." The problem is, I've found this same issue to come into play with women who tend to get all "crazy" with trying to get the last bit of weight off. They slash calories too low, work their *kitten* off to much, and generally under-fuel an energy-expensive lifestyle, calorically speaking. The repercussion can be nagging injuries, weight loss plateaus, performance/strength reduction, general fatigue or lack of desire to train, etc.

So 10-12 calories per pound is my range for people who are working hard.

For those who aren't working hard, 8-10 is a good ball park to find yourself in.

And of course, it's about what foods are providing said calories too.

Lastly, if you say you have very low muscle mass. What do you believe that's going to leave you looking like once you reach your "goal weight"? Will you be happy with it? If not, I'd think about optimizing body composition rather than worrying about what the scale says.

stroutman81

excellent read! Thank you so much for helping dispell so many misconceptons. I would like to see this put out in front for all the newbies to see. I just stumbled across this post today.:drinker:

Thanks and glad you enjoyed the read. I'd like to see this "stuck" at the top of the forum as well like some of the other threads. I get emails about this thread daily, so obviously it's impacting a lot of folks. But that's up for the admin to decide. If they wanted it stuck I think they would have by now.

mrniceguy84

I want to flatten abs, make my chest have a tiny pop, shoulders and biceps/triceps have a gun even if its mini but noticeable, the Vee line on the back....with my 1980 calories a day eating...my workouts 4 to 5 days a week combining cardio and body toning...what can i do to get to this achievable body sculpture?? Im very dumb when it comes to knowing on my own so if u can help out with a routine, guideline of how i should be working out and what machines should be a focus on more than others as well as what cardio is best??? Thanks in advance if you can get back to me on this Steve!

myofibril

With the attention that diet and exercise gets in today's media and culture, a rigid set of food rules has emerged that stray away from the basics. The basics aren't sexy and they're not new. Time tested or not, today it's all about spinning various rules regardless of importance so marketers can fatten their wallets.

That said, these rigid guidelines becomes mechanisms of anxiety for most dieters. The more rules there are, the more dieters feel as if they're walking the tight rope. And I believe this plays a large part in why there's so much on again/off again mentalities - among other things of course.

I completely agree.

People get some caught up in the minutiae or the latest fangled theory that they seem to completely forget just how far they can get using the fundamentals. Sure the basics like good old fashioned consistency, good diet the majority of the time, and realistic timeframes may not be fashionable, marketable or sexy but boy do they work.

I also think that overly rigid guidelines (you must eat 6 times a day, carbs are the work of the devil and hours and hours of cardio are necessary for fat loss) sets most people up for failure and takes the fun out the process. Yes, it can be fun and yes, it can be enjoyable. People are obsessing so much about some elusive end result that it strips the joy out of living life healthily.

stroutman81

I want to flatten abs, make my chest have a tiny pop, shoulders and biceps/triceps have a gun even if its mini but noticeable, the Vee line on the back....with my 1980 calories a day eating...my workouts 4 to 5 days a week combining cardio and body toning...what can i do to get to this achievable body sculpture?? Im very dumb when it comes to knowing on my own so if u can help out with a routine, guideline of how i should be working out and what machines should be a focus on more than others as well as what cardio is best??? Thanks in advance if you can get back to me on this Steve!

I can't really get that specific.

But what are your current stats? Age, height, weight, experience?

mrniceguy84

34/5'10ish/267

experience meaning what???

Debx12345

Bumping this, so much great info so little time. Lol