Advice for a new vegan?

fouroclock

Hi there! How are those anger management classes coming along?

I burned down the school, so we're on hiatus. :drinker:

LOL!!!! Good one!

Ravissante1997

I have been eating as a vegan for many years. I would occasionally have cheese but recently have given it up altogether. I am working very hard on making the other changes in my life that would qualify me as a 'true' vegan (buying ONLY animal free everything, cleansers, beauty products, clothing, footwear, etc,.). Being truly 'vegan' is a lifestyle, not just a way of eating.
I have no problem telling anyone that I refuse to contribute to the factory farming of animals. I have never had a problem with it. I think I respect myself enough that in turn I get the respect of those around me.
I am not ashamed nor embarrassed about it and I actually find people very open to discussing it and are also extremely curious. I prepare a lot of vegan foods that I enjoy sharing and letting people know how delicious food can be regardless.
I live with a very macho meat and potatoes man who absolutely loves my vegan, sometimes raw deserts and will also try other foods that he thinks he might like even if they don't have animal in them.
I have certainly never felt better mentally or physically and am so happy I made the change.
It is so easy now with the internet as you have everything at your fingertips. If you Google vegan baking substitutions you will find all of the alternatives. If I used to love a recipe I just Google the vegan option,for example, vegan mac and cheese or vegan burgers. There are a multitude of great sites and recipes and you just might find the food tastier as you experiment and incorporate changes to make it your own.
You have certainly received tons of great advice in the preceding posts. Best of luck!!

Blueshoozies

The "ethics" problem lies in the way animals raised specifically for food are treated ... horrifically in too many cases. Caged, abused and viciously put to death. We live in a demand-based society ... if there were less demand for meat and meat byproducts, there would be less of an ethics problem. Vegan and Vegetarian lifestyles are significantly more sustainable, more affordable, and promote better health. If you can replace a few meals every week with healthy non-meat alternatives, you are doing yourself and the world you live in a favor.

derekbarrett

OP - Join the "Happy Herbivores" group on MFP. You will be surrounded by like-minded people. Even though you have posted a legitimate question on a "Food and Nutrition" forum, past experience of MFP shows that meat eaters love a vegan thread :laugh:

Here ya go http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/45-happy-herbivores

Good luck! :flowerforyou:

Thanks for the tip, just joined

daffodilsoup

To each their own...but animals are tasty...

I just can't personally not consume animal products..I'm a huge fan of cheese, eggs, and meat, and I seem to being doing just fine on my diet....

So it's not that you can't, it's that you choose not to.

Some of us just aren't as saintly and ethical and empathetic as you vegans. We just like to kill precious little animals and suck the marrow from their bones. Probably because we're evil. :drinker:

I don't recall telling anyone I'm saintly - like any other person, I'm not perfect. My very existence causes harm to animals - I live in a metropolitan area, which displaced animals. I receive vaccinations which may contain egg white or other animal products. Sometimes I accidentally step on bugs on the sidewalk, or swat at mosquitos at a baseball game. I don't consider myself perfect, saintly, or any of those words - and any person who does is kidding themselves, vegan or otherwise.

Being vegan is not about perfection - it is about doing the least harm possible.

With that said, it is definitely a little sad to see someone completely shut themselves down to suffering and turn to these condescending defense tactics. "Precious little animals"? Can't we just talk about our views like adults?

themeaningofthemorning

Hmm. Interesting. I searched "vegan" because I myself am vegan and would love to have more vegan diaries to peruse and found this thread.

I think it's pretty telling that a neutral thread from a person who is becoming vegan and seeking help became so political and judgmental so quickly. People are so quick to jump on the decisions of others which don't exactly line up with their world view. Some of you should take a look at yourselves. It's pretty sad.

Now, I don't know what you aggressive people saw in the OP that made you want to attack her, because her posting looked pretty non-judgmental. She was just asking for help navigating her new decision. She wasn't pointing fingers or telling anyone else to be vegan. I saw one person ask why she would inquire about veganism in a "general topic." This is the food and nutrition forum and she was looking for advice regarding her food and nutrition choices. "Food and nutrition" means EVERYONE'S food and nutrition, "fringe" people included... not just those who stick to the status quo.

If you feel victimized by someone else's ethical choices, or like they're judging you... chances are you're way too judgmental/insecure yourself and you might want to work on that.

nicenhealthy

bump

strongnotskinny114

First of all vegan isn't healthy you have to work hard! To be healthy on it. I researched for months and went vegan and now I am one a temporary break back to veggie because I had so little protein and was completely depressed, lost tons of muscle and actually gained a stone since April, so, deffo doesn't mean weight loss.
My personal opinion if you're doing this for the animals, go for it and be careful get dietician help etc.
If you're doing this to lose weight and be healthy, don't do it, it doesn't make you healthy. There is nothing wrong with dairy, it doesn't make you fat or give you heart attacks etc. just be a healthy vegetarian. Plenty of vegans snacks out there that are just as unhealthy as non vegan ones.
ETA: vegan doesn't just mean food, it means buying vegan shampoo, cleaners, furniture, wool free clothing etc, it can be expensive. If you're doing it for health you probably won't bother with that bit tho. Good luck whatever you do

themeaningofthemorning

First of all vegan isn't healthy you have to work hard! To be healthy on it. I researched for months and went vegan and now I am one a temporary break back to veggie because I had so little protein and was completely depressed, lost tons of muscle and actually gained a stone since April, so, deffo doesn't mean weight loss.
My personal opinion if you're doing this for the animals, go for it and be careful get dietician help etc.
If you're doing this to lose weight and be healthy, don't do it, it doesn't make you healthy. There is nothing wrong with dairy, it doesn't make you fat or give you heart attacks etc. just be a healthy vegetarian. Plenty of vegans snacks out there that are just as unhealthy as non vegan ones.

totally agree. veganism will NOT make you lose weight and it is NOT necessarily any better than anything else diet-wise.

you have to be really disciplined to get enough protein without overloading on carbs. that isn't to say it's impossible, though. on my weeklong stints eating only 1400 cals total (every 3 weeks to boost my weight loss, trainer/nutritionist approved), i get over 100 grams of plant-based protein and manage to stay under 110 carbs almost every day. but i plan my meals a day in advance. HARD WORK! if it's for an ethical reason, it's worth it. if not, leave it.

daffodilsoup

First of all vegan isn't healthy you have to work hard! To be healthy on it. I researched for months and went vegan and now I am one a temporary break back to veggie because I had so little protein and was completely depressed, lost tons of muscle and actually gained a stone since April, so, deffo doesn't mean weight loss.
My personal opinion if you're doing this for the animals, go for it and be careful get dietician help etc.
If you're doing this to lose weight and be healthy, don't do it, it doesn't make you healthy. There is nothing wrong with dairy, it doesn't make you fat or give you heart attacks etc. just be a healthy vegetarian. Plenty of vegans snacks out there that are just as unhealthy as non vegan ones.
ETA: vegan doesn't just mean food, it means buying vegan shampoo, cleaners, furniture, wool free clothing etc, it can be expensive. If you're doing it for health you probably won't bother with that bit tho. Good luck whatever you do

With MFP, I find meeting macros/micros as a vegan to be incredibly easy. If you do a tiny bit of research on vegan sources of B12, protein, iron, etc., it really isn't difficult to meet the recommended daily amounts.

I also find that I can eat a much higher volume of food as a vegan, since unsweetened non-dairy milks, plant-based proteins, etc. are usually much less calories than their animal-based counterparts. Also, a vegan diet should be high in fresh fruits and vegetables, and I find that I can eat more - and am therefore less hungry - than I was as an omnivore, or even a vegetarian.

Does it take a little work? Yes, but mostly at the beginning, as with any transition. Once you learn about the different sources for different nutrients, it doesn't take much effort to put them together into a healthy, balanced diet.

Rocbola

1) What's the best way to tell other people if they do ask why I'm suddenly not eating meat or dairy?


2) What are the staples in your diet that you cannot live without?


3) What do you eat when you go out?


4) What has been your experience with veganism and weight loss?

1) Don't worry about other people. People are all on their own journeys in life. I was a meat eater once who made fun of vegans. The people who don't understand your choice now, might be doing the same thing in a few years when their health takes a turn for the worse.
But, people are very supportive in real life, for the most part. On this site, not so much. People see that it has helped me be happier and more energetic, so they get it.
You just gotta be strong and do what is good for you. I don't tell people, unless they ask, and when they do, i am honest, and they understand. The most common response: "I could NEVER do that!!! But, good for you, if it works for you"

2) Bananas, mangoes, coconut, carrots, romaine, spinach, celery, tomato, cucumber, peaches, blueberries, strawberries. (I grow most of those in my garden, too.)

3) Had sushi last night. They had a really good maki roll with carrots, cucumber, asparagus and lettuce inside. A lot of Asian places cater to vegans. Chipotle burrito bowls are the only fast food i seem to ever find appealing. I usually avoid noodles i lieu of whole foods, but on certain occasions in restaurants, many noodle dishes can be made vegan. A lot of restaurants have fruit smoothies, too.

4) Veganism is awesome! The weight drops off effortlessly, as long as i eat healthy. (You can certainly eat a junk food diet, and still be vegan.) Avoid oils and refined grains. But it's not just the weight of your body. There is another weight that is pulled off your shoulders when you decide to no longer participate in the gratuitous brutality of innocent beings. You also poop better. Your vision gets better. I had a rash for 2 years from a battery that exploded on my hand, go away within 2 months, and never come back. My thoughts are clearer. Sex feels better. You have more energy.

And the biggest advice:
FIND A VEGAN GROUP ON THIS SITE! THE MAIN SECTION OF THE SITE IS VERY MISINFORMED ABOUT VEGANISM!

zorbaru

what would happen to cows, chickens, sheep etc if we didnt farm them for their resources? i think they would become extinct. we have no need for them, and when was the last time you saw a wild cow or chicken?

also, in relation to sheep, i assume being a vegan also means that you wont use wool products. have you seen what happens to a sheep that isn't shorn. surely that is more cruel than keeping them well groomed.

i have no issues with vegans eating what they want. but if you say your are vegan for "ethical" reasons, then you had better now own ANY animal based products, otherwise you are a hypocrite. I also have issues when you attack meat eaters for eating meat. saying things like "meat eaters are unethical" or "eating meat is killing the planet" etc. ill leave a vegan/vegitarian alone provided a) they arent a hypocrite as described above and b) they dont have a go at me for eating a burger.

Charlieappleton

I would never think ill of anyone who doesn't live vegan, my partner still eats meat and I did for 21 years. However I do believe if you couldn't personally kill and cook your own meat, I don't think you should eat meat.

I think your point on extinction is interesting, as at the rate we are consuming meat now, numbers show we won't be able to sustain the levels of consumption for much longer anyway. I am not a huge animal lover, don't get me wrong I do love a good funny cat/dog picture that clogs up my facebook newsfeed on a daily basis, but I don't think it is up to us to live off another human being. It simply isn't needed anymore. We no longer live in the days where we had to hunt for our next feed.

In relation to sheep comments. The reason vegans won't wear wool isn't just because it comes from the sheep, but because.. well a simple google search can show the horrific wool farming that goes on. Of course you have to shear a sheep, to keep them happy and comfortable. But sadly the chances of the wool jumper you bought from the shop coming from a happily consenting sheep, are near nil.

SkinnyFatAlbert

Advice for a new vegan?

Go back to eating meat. Just my opinion of course.

Mike2Hotty

My advice is to pick up the book The 80/10/10 Diet by Dr. Douglas N. Graham. That is all.

Slrajr

The "ethics" problem lies in the way animals raised specifically for food are treated ... horrifically in too many cases. Caged, abused and viciously put to death. We live in a demand-based society ... if there were less demand for meat and meat byproducts, there would be less of an ethics problem. Vegan and Vegetarian lifestyles are significantly more sustainable, more affordable, and promote better health. If you can replace a few meals every week with healthy non-meat alternatives, you are doing yourself and the world you live in a favor.

I like this:)

And to the op: be prepared to do lots of yummy veggie cooking, research b12, and make lots of seitan with nutritional yeast added(if you like it).

ApathyTAT

1) Be prepared for major flack just as your friend gave you, Despite the stereotype of loud obnoxious vegans who shove their dietary choices down your throat. It's your social circle who'll tear into you arguing & slagging.
It is futile to argue with them & worse yet to relate conversation back to veganism, Over time you'll get people in your social circle genuinely interested in your opinion on why you eat this way.

2) Fruits aren't particularly required nutritionally bar avacados for dietary fat & just for general taste. Pulses, nuts & lentils however should be a daily thing. They are essential & some of the strongest plant sources of protein (about 20-33% of their calories) & loaded in micronutrients. Thankfully cheap too.

3) I'm personally of the opinion on the paris exemption rule, ie if you are eating at a place that doesn't serve vegan foods. Try vegetarian, if not eat meat. You do far more harm ethically by showing your peers just how nitty-gritty veganism is, refusing to eat something that uses like <5% animal product in its ingredients. All for the sake of a social-meal & to stay true to veganism.
Many in veganism are against this idea though, But if you are not doing it for ethical reasons ignore this so.

4) Bulking on a vegan diet is laborious & extremely filling. Plants are not high calorie foods & bread/pasta quickly becomes boring when ate in large quantities daily. Similarly losing weight tends to be alot easier for this reason.

*****************************************************************************************

Also aware yourself of bioavailablity of nutrients in foods. Animal products can be particularly concentrated sources of nutrients, Just as mercury is found in much higher quantity up the food chain, So is certain nutrients like zinc/iron in animal foods. Plant sources of nutrients tend to be bound up by chelation molecules (inaccessible for digestion & assimilation), Or there is a "battle" between nutrients eg calcium negates plant-iron absorption. On the other hand however certain nutrients also increase absorption of certain nutrients, eg weak acids like vinegar & vitamin C increase iron & zinc absorption For eg it is recommended vegans get at least 1.5x the RDA for iron.

As stated the exclusion of numerous food groups & having to eat a ridiculously varied plant diet with supplementation (Vit D, B12) to meet nutritional requirements should not be considered optimal. Veganism simply has not got the scientific consensus on its side at this moment in time.
Jack Norris a registered vegan dietician with his own website is a useful source for nutrition, He is by far the most scientifically sound & unbiased I've come across in the vegan community. Even arguing against many common held beliefs by vegans on nutrition.

SUMMARY:
- Don't argue with people who argue with you about veganism, It never goes anywhere unless it was a genuine question.
- Pulses are absolute staples
- 100% adherence to a diet may be a personal goal, but this can seriously conflict with social outings as a vegan.
- Caloric intake determins weight gain, Vegan diets are very filling & thus tend to cause below caloric intake.
- Bioavailability of plant nutrients is LARGELY overlooked by vegans
- Jack Norris a registered dietician who has his own website is a great source for veganism.

themeaningofthemorning

what would happen to cows, chickens, sheep etc if we didnt farm them for their resources? i think they would become extinct. we have no need for them, and when was the last time you saw a wild cow or chicken?

also, in relation to sheep, i assume being a vegan also means that you wont use wool products. have you seen what happens to a sheep that isn't shorn. surely that is more cruel than keeping them well groomed.

i have no issues with vegans eating what they want. but if you say your are vegan for "ethical" reasons, then you had better now own ANY animal based products, otherwise you are a hypocrite. I also have issues when you attack meat eaters for eating meat. saying things like "meat eaters are unethical" or "eating meat is killing the planet" etc. ill leave a vegan/vegitarian alone provided a) they arent a hypocrite as described above and b) they dont have a go at me for eating a burger.

Regarding extinction - we can't play God. If the only reason they still exist is because we keep them from extinction in order to eat them, that's not exactly ethical, in my opinion. Ethics aside, species go extinct all the time. That's not a tragedy, it's the reality of nature. We're not making a difference for the better just because we're keeping a few species from extinction. So it's not exactly an argument against veganism to say that some species will go extinct if we stop mass producing them for our own food.

Regarding the wool - some vegans will wear wool. It's very important to check where the wool came from, though, and to make sure the sheep are treated properly at whatever farm they live on.

daffodilsoup

1) Be prepared for major flack just as your friend gave you, Despite the stereotype of loud obnoxious vegans who shove their dietary choices down your throat. It's your social circle who'll tear into you arguing & slagging.
It is futile to argue with them & worse yet to relate conversation back to veganism, Over time you'll get people in your social circle genuinely interested in your opinion on why you eat this way.

2) Fruits aren't particularly required nutritionally bar avacados for dietary fat & just for general taste. Pulses, nuts & lentils however should be a daily thing. They are essential & some of the strongest plant sources of protein (about 20-33% of their calories) & loaded in micronutrients. Thankfully cheap too.

3) I'm personally of the opinion on the paris exemption rule, ie if you are eating at a place that doesn't serve vegan foods. Try vegetarian, if not eat meat. You do far more harm ethically by showing your peers just how nitty-gritty veganism is, refusing to eat something that uses like <5% animal product in its ingredients. All for the sake of a social-meal & to stay true to veganism.
Many in veganism are against this idea though, But if you are not doing it for ethical reasons ignore this so.

4) Bulking on a vegan diet is laborious & extremely filling. Plants are not high calorie foods & bread/pasta quickly becomes boring when ate in large quantities daily. Similarly losing weight tends to be alot easier for this reason.

I think I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded bullet point here - I think that "waffling" vegans who stick to their values based on convenience wind up causing a lot of confusion to those doing their best to meet the needs of vegan friends and family. If someone witnesses someone who refers to themselves as vegan eat a veggie burger patty made with cheddar cheese, they may put dairy products in a dish later on for their vegan friend visiting for dinner.

I feel that in 2013, not only are there extensive vegan options at restaurants, but it is also the responsibility of the vegan to plan for themselves - whether that's calling a restaurant ahead of time, making a vegan dish to share at a potluck, or always carrying an extra Larabar.

I'm not one for social labels, but they are important when it comes to meeting dietary needs - and not just veganism! Labels exist so that we can create understanding of different eating habits and dietary needs, whether that be vegan, halal, gluten free or Kosher. While we as vegans should strive to be good ambassadors at all times, we should not be made to feel self-conscious for doing what we think is right.

ApathyTAT

I think I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded bullet point here - I think that "waffling" vegans who stick to their values based on convenience wind up causing a lot of confusion to those doing their best to meet the needs of vegan friends and family. If someone witnesses someone who refers to themselves as vegan eat a veggie burger patty made with cheddar cheese, they may put dairy products in a dish later on for their vegan friend visiting for dinner.

I feel that in 2013, not only are there extensive vegan options at restaurants, but it is also the responsibility of the vegan to plan for themselves - whether that's calling a restaurant ahead of time, making a vegan dish to share at a potluck, or always carrying an extra Larabar.

I'm not one for social labels, but they are important when it comes to meeting dietary needs - and not just veganism! Labels exist so that we can create understanding of different eating habits and dietary needs, whether that be vegan, halal, gluten free or Kosher. While we as vegans should strive to be good ambassadors at all times, we should not be made to feel self-conscious for doing what we think is right.

There are not extensive vegan options at resturants unless you are from a very vegan-friendly area. If you have travelled this will be plain obvious. Most cities have vegetarian & vegan resturants yes, Towns no, Those that cater to all diets tend to only have one or two vegetarian dishes on their menu. No vegan options unless specifically asked.

You are so wrapped up in remaining pure & conditioned to the restrictions of veganism from a social-meal viewpoint, That you actually don't see how negatively & absurd having to call a resturant in advance or carrying vegan-friendly foods so you can go without starving comes across to those who aren't vegan.
It is the equivilant of how you view non-vegans who cannot imagine having a single meal that isn't composed of slabs of meat eggs or dairy, Or bodybuilder types who avoid social-meals or opt to bring their own food with them so they do not go overboard on their goals.

Not only is it dangerous, Leading to an ortherxic or guilt relationship with food (which many vegans seem to suffer from on some scale). But it turns away people who'd consider adapting this diet. In theory your method is obviously the more consistent practice from a personal matter, In experience my method is a far more embracing & less-conflictive approach amongst my peers. I've done both.