Just started KETO diet

richardheath

Ignore the naysayers.

I just posted my before and after pics of losing 45 pounds over the course of the last 16-17 weeks in the success stories forum.

About 80% of the period has been pure keto (typically around 55-60% fat, 45% protein, and 5-10% carbs, and the other 20% a bit higher carb (~20%). I am trying to maintain/increase my LBM while losing the fat, hence my protein levels.

Increasing LBM while keto is extremely unlikely and difficult. Keto usually ranks very low for bulking, because you need glycogen for optimal strength training performance, and glycogen only comes from eating carbs.

Not true.
With the carbs this person is ingesting, glycogen stores should be normal. For optimal strength training, which means, I presume, a person is gaining strength, you must create a condition where the body can make PROTEIN and not necessarily glycogen. Fat metabolism creates a state of stress where cortisol levels and growth hormone levels are relatively high. That is good. You need amino acids, growth hormone, and insulin to make muscle protein.
I totally believe that this person is gaining strength on this KETO diet, though I have never heard of that diet specifically.
A nice summary of the physiology behind these things in Hagan's "Breakfast: The least important meal of the day."

The entire point of a ketogenic diet is glycogen depletion. If glycogen stores are normal, then the body isn't in ketosis, because it's using glycogen for it's glucose needs. Glycogen is needed for optimal performance in the gym (fat oxidation is not fast enough to keep up with the intensity of strength training.) Also, carbs are an essential part of IGF-1 and HGH production.

Finally, gaining strength is not the same as adding mass. Most strength gains are neurological in nature.

Gaining strength and increasing muscle mass is EXACTLY the same thing.
The only way you can gain strength is through an increase in muscle mass.
We are talking strength, and not endurance.
Look in Guyton's textbook of medical physiology.

Not true. More muscle mass (myofibril hypertrophy) usually equals more strength; but one does not need to increase muscle mass to increase strength. Does Guyton's talk about neuromuscular adaptation?

And glycogen levels do NOT have to be depleted for the fat burning effect to take hold. Probably they only have to fall 50-60% of baseline to kick in the metabolic shift.
There is still plenty of glycogen reserve to use in an emergency.

All these biologic processes are going on all the time, it is the relative rates of them that determine whether primarily fats or carbs are being burned.

Fat burning can go on when there is glycogen, sure. But for ketosis, the body must be using fat as the primary energy source. Ketones are produced from the breakdown of the fats.

When people undergo a prolonged fast, does that mean their glucose and glycogen levels are depleted? No. The body MAKES glucose from labile amino acids, and glycogen stores are stabilized at an acceptable level.

Great way to retain LBM there! Have the body chew up your labile proteins for gluconeogenesis.

kenzietate

Yeah, so keto can be good for some diabetics. I haven't had to go that low to stabilize my numbers.

My question was more related to non-medical issues: do non-diabetics go on this diet, and why?

Als0: do y'all check your urine to make sure you are in ketosis, or is it just assumed that low carb = ketosis?

Oh I misunderstood. Yes there are many, many people who do on a keto diet with out the cause of diabetes or other health issues (check out http://www.reddit.com/r/keto for hundreds of reason/stories). For those, the reasons vary.

The most common one that I hear all the time is it is easier to stay full and satiated on a normal calorie deficit when they aren't craving carbs and sugar. Others find they have much more energy on a daily basis (this one is definitely true for my husband), still others want to see that quick water weight loss at the beginning when the glycogen stores deplete. The people that I have seen who have losing quickly as their only reason, usually are gone within three weeks to a month. It is simply another way to get a calorie deficit that is easier for some to follow.

As far as scientific studies on that go though I doubt there are many. It seems much more tested in correlation with health issues like diabetes and epilepsy.

The first time I went into ketosis I checked my urine. But I now I just know what the symptoms are and I can tell when I am in ketosis easily. That is what I have seen from most people who have gone in and out and back in at least once.

mustgetmuscles1

Gaining strength and increasing muscle mass is EXACTLY the same thing.
The only way you can gain strength is through an increase in muscle mass.
We are talking strength, and not endurance.
Look in Guyton's textbook of medical physiology.
And glycogen levels do NOT have to be depleted for the fat burning effect to take hold. Probably they only have to fall 50-60% of baseline to kick in the metabolic shift.
There is still plenty of glycogen reserve to use in an emergency.

All these biologic processes are going on all the time, it is the relative rates of them that determine whether primarily fats or carbs are being burned.

When people undergo a prolonged fast, does that mean their glucose and glycogen levels are depleted? No. The body MAKES glucose from labile amino acids, and glycogen stores are stabilized at an acceptable level.

Watchoo talking bout Willis?

tigersword

Ignore the naysayers.

I just posted my before and after pics of losing 45 pounds over the course of the last 16-17 weeks in the success stories forum.

About 80% of the period has been pure keto (typically around 55-60% fat, 45% protein, and 5-10% carbs, and the other 20% a bit higher carb (~20%). I am trying to maintain/increase my LBM while losing the fat, hence my protein levels.

Increasing LBM while keto is extremely unlikely and difficult. Keto usually ranks very low for bulking, because you need glycogen for optimal strength training performance, and glycogen only comes from eating carbs.

Not true.
With the carbs this person is ingesting, glycogen stores should be normal. For optimal strength training, which means, I presume, a person is gaining strength, you must create a condition where the body can make PROTEIN and not necessarily glycogen. Fat metabolism creates a state of stress where cortisol levels and growth hormone levels are relatively high. That is good. You need amino acids, growth hormone, and insulin to make muscle protein.
I totally believe that this person is gaining strength on this KETO diet, though I have never heard of that diet specifically.
A nice summary of the physiology behind these things in Hagan's "Breakfast: The least important meal of the day."

The entire point of a ketogenic diet is glycogen depletion. If glycogen stores are normal, then the body isn't in ketosis, because it's using glycogen for it's glucose needs. Glycogen is needed for optimal performance in the gym (fat oxidation is not fast enough to keep up with the intensity of strength training.) Also, carbs are an essential part of IGF-1 and HGH production.

Finally, gaining strength is not the same as adding mass. Most strength gains are neurological in nature.

Gaining strength and increasing muscle mass is EXACTLY the same thing.
The only way you can gain strength is through an increase in muscle mass.
We are talking strength, and not endurance.
Look in Guyton's textbook of medical physiology.
And glycogen levels do NOT have to be depleted for the fat burning effect to take hold. Probably they only have to fall 50-60% of baseline to kick in the metabolic shift.
There is still plenty of glycogen reserve to use in an emergency.

All these biologic processes are going on all the time, it is the relative rates of them that determine whether primarily fats or carbs are being burned.

When people undergo a prolonged fast, does that mean their glucose and glycogen levels are depleted? No. The body MAKES glucose from labile amino acids, and glycogen stores are stabilized at an acceptable level.

No. Again, most strength gains come from central nervous system adaptation. Once the CNS has maximized the use of available muscle tissue, then strength gains rely on hypertrophy.

Yes, fat burning and carb burning are happening all the time, unless you are in ketosis. When in ketosis, glucose is conserved specifically for the brain, and the rest of the body utilizes ketones in place of glucose in the Krebs cycle. This happens after glycogen is depleted. So while glucose is still being used, and yes, labile proteins are converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, that's only a minimal amount to maintain brain function (the brain can run on about 75% ketones, but still requires some pure glucose.) The rest of the body runs on lipolysis, which is very inefficient for high intensity activity like sprinting and weight lifting.

Whatever small amount of carbs people eat during a ketogenic diet is used for the brain, not for refilling glycogen stores. The body also does not break down protein to refill glycogen stores.

Yanicka1

Bump

wheird

If you find it personally sustainable, then go for it. However, I would caution you to keep in the back of your mind that, if you intend to switch back to a mixed diet when you hit your weight goal, you may lack the habitual discipline needed to keep the weight off.

Aside from that, good luck!!

LolBroScience

Ignore the naysayers.

I just posted my before and after pics of losing 45 pounds over the course of the last 16-17 weeks in the success stories forum.

About 80% of the period has been pure keto (typically around 55-60% fat, 45% protein, and 5-10% carbs, and the other 20% a bit higher carb (~20%). I am trying to maintain/increase my LBM while losing the fat, hence my protein levels.

Increasing LBM while keto is extremely unlikely and difficult. Keto usually ranks very low for bulking, because you need glycogen for optimal strength training performance, and glycogen only comes from eating carbs.

Not true.
With the carbs this person is ingesting, glycogen stores should be normal. For optimal strength training, which means, I presume, a person is gaining strength, you must create a condition where the body can make PROTEIN and not necessarily glycogen. Fat metabolism creates a state of stress where cortisol levels and growth hormone levels are relatively high. That is good. You need amino acids, growth hormone, and insulin to make muscle protein.
I totally believe that this person is gaining strength on this KETO diet, though I have never heard of that diet specifically.
A nice summary of the physiology behind these things in Hagan's "Breakfast: The least important meal of the day."

The entire point of a ketogenic diet is glycogen depletion. If glycogen stores are normal, then the body isn't in ketosis, because it's using glycogen for it's glucose needs. Glycogen is needed for optimal performance in the gym (fat oxidation is not fast enough to keep up with the intensity of strength training.) Also, carbs are an essential part of IGF-1 and HGH production.

Finally, gaining strength is not the same as adding mass. Most strength gains are neurological in nature.

Gaining strength and increasing muscle mass is EXACTLY the same thing.
The only way you can gain strength is through an increase in muscle mass.
We are talking strength, and not endurance.
Look in Guyton's textbook of medical physiology.
And glycogen levels do NOT have to be depleted for the fat burning effect to take hold. Probably they only have to fall 50-60% of baseline to kick in the metabolic shift.
There is still plenty of glycogen reserve to use in an emergency.

All these biologic processes are going on all the time, it is the relative rates of them that determine whether primarily fats or carbs are being burned.

When people undergo a prolonged fast, does that mean their glucose and glycogen levels are depleted? No. The body MAKES glucose from labile amino acids, and glycogen stores are stabilized at an acceptable level.

Well that was a quick way of demonstrating that you know nothing at all.

RonnieLodge

Just started the keto diet. Lost a ton of weight a couple of years ago (100+ lbs) and gained about 40lbs back. Need to start something that shows me immediate results. I eat too many carbs anyway, so I am trying Keto. I have seen it work for a couple of my friends. I am on day #3 of 20g or less carbs. Added in a multi vitamin. Trying to keep my ratios at 65 fat/30 protein/5 carb. It is alot harder than you would think to eat all that fat. Any Keto beginners out there? Or Keto vets to give advice, feel free! Thanks!

Check out this lovely lady's blog: www.xhelensarahx.com

/website http://xhelensarahx.com/aboutketo

Lots of great Keto advice.

fruttibiscotti

Keep going, you are on the right track. I have been on MFP for a long time listening and following the traditional (crap) advice, and my weight went up and down lcycling like crazy, and felt so hungry all day. Discovered the LCHF diet and it has been non stop weight decline and I'm not voraciously hungry anymore, and feel so much healthier. My doctor is amazed at my numbers. Keep going!

wheird

Keep going, you are on the right track. I have been on MFP for a long time listening and following the traditional (crap) advice, and my weight went up and down lcycling like crazy, and felt so hungry all day. Discovered the LCHF diet and it has been non stop weight decline and I'm not voraciously hungry anymore, and feel so much healthier. My doctor is amazed at my numbers. Keep going!

Calls advice crap, yet has a poor understanding of physiology and nutrition. Legit.

hookilau

fruttibiscotti

Thanks for the advice, Reality_is_hard, so nice for you to take the time out of your day to bestow your wisdom. What an honor.

By the way, just took a peek at your public food diary today and noticed you had a 7-eleven meal for breakfast, Mc Donald's for lunch and Panda Express for dinner.

OMG, genius. Shall I follow your advice instead?

neanderthin

Ignore the naysayers.

I just posted my before and after pics of losing 45 pounds over the course of the last 16-17 weeks in the success stories forum.

About 80% of the period has been pure keto (typically around 55-60% fat, 45% protein, and 5-10% carbs, and the other 20% a bit higher carb (~20%). I am trying to maintain/increase my LBM while losing the fat, hence my protein levels.

All diets work if you maintain a deficit. I'm not against this diet, I just mentioned that it's mostly unsustainable for the vast majority of people over a lifetime. Losing weight is the easy part.

Why is it unsustainable?

Pizza.

gailygail99

Not sure why everyone thinks keto isn't sustainable long term. That being said, while quick results are psychologically encouraging, they're not always the best teacher of long term eating habits. I'm not a keto beginner but I keep my ratios at 75F/15P/5C

Agree here. Keto is sustainable long term and it is also possible to switch back to a "normal" diet if desired it just has to be done slowly and correctly.

Best piece of advice I recieved: Don't worry about calories in the first two weeks. Get used to not having carbs first then worry about counting calories. Track what you eat but only eat when you are hungry and see where that gets you first.

Thank you for the advice!!

gailygail99

Have you considered intermittent fasting?

Not yet. Dont know if I can do that yet! That scares me! If I dont eat within a few hours of waking up I end up with a headache!

gailygail99

Bullfrickincrap it's not sustainable. I've been on it for over two years, and know people who've been successful on it for over ten. It just takes a little bit of willpower and a lifestyle shift. Don't be a candy-butt pansy who lives for the thrill of sugar highs and feeling guilty for "cheating" (teehee!) and you'll be fine.

OP: Gimme a friend request and Carnivor0us and I will answer any questions you have. Beware because the MFP general forums are pretty hostile to anyone living low-carb or ketogenic, but we have some nice places like http://www.reddit.com/r/theketodiet and http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/1511-reddit-keto and http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/1160-keto to share info, make some friends and make it easier on you to stick to it.

Haha! I seem to like it so far. Thanks!!

Chadomaniac

You want to lose extreme weight fast that's what u get , Extreme weight put back on . Is this the lifestyle you want







Eat a balanced diet , count your calories and you will lose just as much weight and keep it off because you wont be restricted

gailygail99

I'm looking at giving keto a try, have been trying to read up on it to make sure I'm getting it right but I have set my values as

Fat- 75%
Protein- 25%
Carbs- 5%

I'm a bit dubious about whether I'll be able to stick to the carbs at 5% as I'm a carb junkie, but I was looking through when I used to log before and I relied heavily on carbs and in addition I would crave them even more I think! Buuuuut, I absolutely love meat so hoping that being able to eat lots of it will make it enjoyable. I was also told that things like cheese and cream are very acceptable on keto so that will be LOVELY.

Anyway, sorry for kind of changing the subject-ish, good luck and I'm happy to support you as I know I'll need support from others aswel! xx

It is hard eating all of that fat to be honest, but sometimes fun too. Like I now put butter on my asparagus! YUM! My ratios are at 65/30/5 and i am almost meeting them. I usually am over on protein though. But I am looking more at making sure my net carbs are under 20g per day.

gailygail99

I did it for 7 weeks, lost 8 lbs The first 2 weeks were hard however it got easier. But I missed my carbs Good luck!!

Thank you! Good luck to you too!

gailygail99

I've been on Keto for 6 months and have lost 53lbs on it. More than the weight loss, it has taught me about eating when I'm hungry not when I feel like it. It's taught me to think about my meals ahead of time, so I have less of the "eating on the fly" moment. The weight loss has also encouraged me to take up running which I love and helps to create a greater calorie deficit everyday but still eat healthy. I do feel like it is sustainable long term, but not at the 20g carbs I've been doing. I plan on increasing my carbs to a max of 50g once I've hit my goal.

this is what i plan to do exactly! good luck!!