Left turkey out overnight, is it okay?
Replies
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I have to agree with the EAT IT group and the microbiologist.
I do understand the point that the restaurant folks make, but really, you are feeding the general public food that has been cooked by a crew of people of unknown cleanliness (i worked in QUITE a few restaurants...i know of what i speak!). I would only hope the rules are more strict in a commercial kitchen than in a private home.
Don't stuff it, cook it correctly and enjoy!0 -
Make sure you cook it thoroughly, 65 degrees Centigrade (NOT Fahrenheit!!!) all the way through. There's a risk with poultry anyway even if you do all the thawing etc properly, due to salmonella and similar (i.e. contamination from the slaughterhouse etc), so all poultry should always be cooked this thoroughly anyway. You can get meat thermometers to make sure, although you can tell by the colour and texture of poultry if it's been cooked through (it should be white or pale (i.e. not pink), the juices should run clear, and it should be falling off the bone).
65 Centigrade is hot enough to kill all bacteria that are harmful to humans. And viruses. (But not prions. But you won't get prion disease from leaving a turkey out overnight. You can avoid that by not feeding sheep's brains to cows (that should be obvious, but it wasn't obvious to the British government back in the 60s 70s and 80s...))
exception: there's a kind of exotoxic bacteria that can grow in rice, if you cook rice, then leave it at room temperature for more than a couple of hours, you should chuck it away because even if you reheat it thoroughly, because while cooking kills the bacteria, it doesn't destroy the toxin it produces, so you can still get sick even though all the bacteria are dead. Salmonella and stuff that infects poultry isn't like that though.
Be careful when preparing food, because a lot of food poisoning comes from cross contamination, e.g. raw meat bacteria getting into prepared foods like salads etc, so while the bacteria in the meat itself gets killed while cooking, if it contaminates prepared food it won't get killed. If your turkey's been at room temperature for a while then there's a greater risk of this. Personally, I treat all raw meat as though it is contaminated, just in case it is. So things like separate preparing area, chopping board, utensils etc for raw meat preparation, and I wash my hands in dettol handwash after handling it, and make sure all the stuff used for the raw meat preparation is washed in hot water with plenty of washing up liquid.
ETA: I regularly eat chicken breasts that have been left to thaw for 24 hrs (sometimes longer if I forget) and then cooked through. I also buy them in 2kg frozen batches, thaw them, cook half, re-freeze half, then a week or so later re-thaw and cook the other half. So these ones probably get 48 hrs at room temperature before being cooked and eaten. I make sure they get cooked through thoroughly and take precautions to avoid cross contamination before cooking them. Also, after being cooked they sit in the fridge cooked for up to a week then used in salads and sandwiches. So yes I follow my own advice re the above.0 -
On average, you're going to cook a 20 lb-ish turkey at 325 degrees for 6 - 6.5 hours until a meat thermometer reaches 165 degrees. That should kill anything that may have sprouted while your turkey was thawing.
Honestly, I think people do freak out about food cleanliness in general. We're living in a 1st world country, our food is literally the cleanest in the world. Also, our bodies have natural defenses against food-born pathogens and bacteria. Put those together and add the fact that all you did was thaw the damn thing, I bet you'll be fine.
I agree. I think a lot of the food hygiene rules, especially for restaurants, takes the "belt and braces" approach, in case someone elsewhere in the kitchen isn't following the rules. But in your own kitchen when you're doing everything yourself and eating the food yourself, you don't need to be as strict.
To get food posioning, you need 3 things to happen:
1. the food gets contaminated by a harmful microorganism
2. the microorganism gets a chance to breed into high enough numbers to make someone ill
3. the microorganisms don't die or get killed before the food is eaten
restaurants will have rules to prevent all three of these occurring and will throw out the food if any of them could have occurred in their kitchen. For the home kitchen, it's best to assume that 1. happened already in the slaughter house, 2. may have happened in the supermarket, so make sure that 3 is taken care of by cooking all the food thoroughly. But in most cases in the home kitchen, 1 and 2 won't have happened, but 3 is a good idea anyway just in case.
You need to be stricter for small kids, the elderly, people with weak immune systems and pregnant women.0 -
Nope. I would not cook it. Too much of a risk.0
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you could always take it to a taxidermist and have it mounted for display in your den.
it would make for a great conversation piece for future Thanksgivings.
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Man, I literally leave meat out before I go to work, and cook it when I get home...and that's just for every day meats 1lb at a time or so.
That turkey is fine. Eat it up.
This is not ok to do. I hope if any of you that leave meat/ turkey out over night cook for others that you tell them and give them the choice to eat it or not. I am not comfortable with thawing meat at room temp, regardless of its it cold or not. I would want to know if you were serving me thanksgiving turkey0 -
If it was cold in the refrigerator, then everyone would say it is fine.
If it is still cold on the counter, people freak out.
Does anyone else logic? If it's still cold, then of course it's just fine. If it got up to room temperature, then definitely no, but it didn't.
Seriously....
Here's logic for you.
1) Bacteria grow even at refrigerator temps. They just do it slower.
2) In the refrigerator, the thawed bird would be the same temperature the whole way through. On the counter, it is coldest at the core and warmest at the surface.
3) Coincidentally, the surface is where you're likely to have the most problems with bacterial contamination.
4) Common bacteria that cause food poisoning double their population roughly every hour at room temp. (depends on the species and strain)
4) The bird has essentially had overnight to grow a nice culture at close to room temperature on its surface. Is this enough to cause food poisoning? Not if the bird didn't have many bacteria to start. But if it did, and there's no way to know, then yes.
Personally, I wouldn't take the risk. But then, I'm a microbiologist (technically - I don't work as one now, but I have the PhD). No, seriously. My bug of choice was E. coli, and we also worked with Salmonella so I know what I'm talking about as far as growth curves.
Besides, I've had food poisoning before and it took me more than a month to get completely over it. Never again if I can help it.0 -
Just finished reading the rest of the posts.
To all of you who say 'just cook it and you'll be fine': you don't know what you're talking about. You'll be fine if the contaminating bacteria doesn't produce toxins as it grows on your food.
But what if it's Staphylococcus (and don't forget Staph is common)? It produces all of those nasty toxins as it grows. Cooking kills the bug, but doesn't phase the toxins. Cook it as thoroughly as you like. It'll still make you sick.0 -
There's no way the surface of the bird spent any significant time above 40 or so degrees.0
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exception: there's a kind of exotoxic bacteria that can grow in rice, if you cook rice, then leave it at room temperature for more than a couple of hours, you should chuck it away because even if you reheat it thoroughly, because while cooking kills the bacteria, it doesn't destroy the toxin it produces, so you can still get sick even though all the bacteria are dead. Salmonella and stuff that infects poultry isn't like that though.
Exotoxic bacteria, correct. Belief that such don't contaminate poultry is wrong. See above, re: Staphylococcus.
As general info, humans and animals are the significant source of Staph contamination - Staph is commonly found on our skin and hair, and in our nasal passages. So, it can contaminate just about anything we touch or (God forbid) sneeze or cough near.0 -
Potentially hazardous foods are considered unsafe if they are left in the temperature danger zone for 4 hours or more. Temperature danger zone is 41F-135F. While it may still feel cold to the touch, are you sure it is still below 41F? Or are you sure of how long it has been there?
Personally, I wouldn't do it. And if I tried it at work, and guests got sick, they would sue and be totally justified because proper procedures were broken. I realize home kitchens don't operate under the same conditions as commercial ones...
It could be fine. If you get it up over 165F for 15 minutes, then you and your guests could be fine, but its not a risk I would be willing to take.0 -
Sounds like the "surface of the bird" spent a good 10 or so hours at 40+ degrees.
Regardless its OP's choice to cook it or not. I for one would be going shopping for a replacement. To all of you saying that restaurants have to abide by strict rules, you are right and it's for the well being of the public. I for one am glad for that and honestly would want to provide that for my family if I had the option.
Im not a fan of food poisioning, let alone for the holidays.0 -
U.S. Food and Drug Administration says no. If it were me, I'd toss it.
""The Big Thaw"
Turkeys must be kept at a safe temperature during "the big thaw." While frozen, a turkey is safe indefinitely. However, as soon as it begins to thaw, any bacteria that may have been present before freezing can begin to grow again.
A package of frozen meat or poultry left thawing on the counter more than 2 hours is not at a safe temperature. Even though the center of the package may still be frozen, the outer layer of the food is in the "Danger Zone" between 40 and 140 °F — at a temperature where foodborne bacteria multiply rapidly."
Source link: http://1.usa.gov/1boTESP0 -
Absolutely not. I am a certified ServSafe Food Safety Instructor and poultry is already a high risk food, but add to that the fact that it wasn't maintained at a safe thawing temperature of less than 41 degrees and you have a good possibility of bacteria growth.
I'd also thoroughly clean and disinfect the area that you had the bird sitting out overnight and anything you may have touched with contaminated hands. E Coli and Salmonella poisoning is no fun.0 -
There's no way the surface of the bird spent any significant time above 40 or so degrees.
*Headdesk*
How much time do YOU think is significant? Surface of the bird likely starts at just under 40 degrees, because it's already been in the refrigerator (at ~40F) since Monday night, and has already spent an hour at room temperature but is still frozen at the core. Bird comes out of the fridge and surface quickly warms to 40F since the room temperature is likely somewhere between 65 and 80F.
Essentially, the whole time the bird was out, maybe minus an hour to be super generous, the surface temp is above 40F.
ETA: removing redundant phrase0 -
Potentially hazardous foods are considered unsafe if they are left in the temperature danger zone for 4 hours or more. Temperature danger zone is 41F-135F. While it may still feel cold to the touch, are you sure it is still below 41F? Or are you sure of how long it has been there?
Personally, I wouldn't do it. And if I tried it at work, and guests got sick, they would sue and be totally justified because proper procedures were broken. I realize home kitchens don't operate under the same conditions as commercial ones...
It could be fine. If you get it up over 165F for 15 minutes, then you and your guests could be fine, but its not a risk I would be willing to take.
truth if you were cooking for any instution that bird would have to go the risk of liability is too great.
Oh and in case you miss it OP...please please please do not put a crumb of stuffing into that turkey cavity!!!0 -
It is *possible* you gave the bacteria enough heat and a chance to multiply to dangerous levels and you increase your chances of food poisoning, especially if you have someone with health issues you will feed it too. I thaw my turkey outside the fridge every year with no problem though. However, there are many variables and I'd have to advise you to not eat it even though I do it regularly.
The reason is the micro environment on the surface of the turkey may get high enough to allow bacteria to multiply even though the core is still thawing if: the temperature in the house is high enough (I tend to let it drop to 50, especially while gone during the day), there is no intervening cushion of air between the turkey surface and the outside air (I keep the plastic wrap on, AND additionally a plastic bag over that, causing a second inner buffer of lower temperature air to exist and then a third "layer" keeping it inside the stove's "mini-environment" to prevent too rapid heating). One of the most important issues is the unknown pre-contamination in the area already and this one you have no control over. If you did none of this, especially if you unwrapped the turkey to thaw it, the likelihood of food poisoning increases greatly, but again...most people may thaw and eat it and very few get sick, I have no idea of the probability, what you did or where your turkey came from so I couldn't advise you eat it! Its up to you to weigh the pluses and minuses and decide if you choose to "roll the dice".
On the other hand, I do what I described above for increased safety (room temp drop and second plastic layer, in the oven), I already cooked 3 turkeys doing this method THIS year without any ill effect (lean cheap protein stash, whoohooo!). And doing what I do doesn't mean its "safe" either, however it is much safer than just leaving it open, out in a 70 degree room. But advice for unknown circumstances and unknown online people has to be no, dont eat it (if you handed me your turkey, I'd probably throw it out).0 -
I've worked in catering for about 12 years. By UK food safety regulations, the turkey would have to be disposed of, no question.
However, would I cook it for home use? Yes, without concern (as long as the thickest part of both the thigh and the breast both reached at least 165°F during cooking).
This is not to say 100% that the turkey will be safe, just what I would personally do, for my own household.
I still wouldn't serve it to risk groups just in case (ie. pregnant, elderly, etc).0 -
There's no way the surface of the bird spent any significant time above 40 or so degrees.
It was in a heated house?0 -
The best method for thawing any kind of frozen food is under refrigeration. Thawing by running cold water over it is the second best method. You can also thaw it by microwaving it.
But thawing it at room temperature? A very serious no-no. My grandmother did it, too, but then, she also used to drive a car with the baby laying on the front seat from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Doable, and arguably good enough, but not something most of us would consider doing today.0 -
I knew you guys would have a lot to say about this, and I do appreciate all your answers. I wanted to get a general consensus.
Yes I know how it was SUPPOSED to be defrosted. It was just so big I was afraid the three days in the fridge drill wouldn't work. I seriously didn't intend to leave it out of the fridge for more than an hour or two. My bad.
The turkey was still in its packaging, and still in two plastic grocery bags, even, so I'm sure no NEW bacteria have been introduced to the thing. *yet* lol.
I will be feeding about 8 healthy and hearty people tomorrow, between the ages of 9 and 48.
I got food poisoning once in my life. (Free advice, avoid 'all you can eat' sushi places...)
I was pretty much planning to cook it, but wondered what other people thought. Everyone has a different level of what they worry about, cleanliness wise (correct or no). I'm not even great about rinsing off vegetables before I cook or eat them, honestly. I'll eat leftovers from my own fridge that are over a week old... never have any problems.
I usually do the turkey in one of those oven bags, and am always careful it is done.
One more question.
For those who say not to stuff it. Why not? I have to disagree with the poster who said the stuffing done in a separate pan is just as good.... nope, it isn't....
I will post on Friday and let you know if we're all okay.
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Why don't you call the turkey hotline at 1-800-BUTTERBALL? If anyone would know, they would....0
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Just finished reading the rest of the posts.
To all of you who say 'just cook it and you'll be fine': you don't know what you're talking about. You'll be fine if the contaminating bacteria doesn't produce toxins as it grows on your food.
But what if it's Staphylococcus (and don't forget Staph is common)? It produces all of those nasty toxins as it grows. Cooking kills the bug, but doesn't phase the toxins. Cook it as thoroughly as you like. It'll still make you sick.
^^This is what I was going to say if I got to the end of the thread and no one had mentioned it.0 -
With the stuffing, I believe it's because it might interfere with thoroughly cooking the interior + you're increasing the risk of cross-contamination e.g. if there is bacteria in the bird you may contaminate the stuffing as well.0
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With the stuffing, I believe it's because it might interfere with thoroughly cooking the interior + you're increasing the risk of cross-contamination e.g. if there is bacteria in the bird you may contaminate the stuffing as well.
this it's hard to reach that critical 165deg F very risky especially with an improperly thawed bird. and plus it pulls fluid from the bird and dries it out.
Here's what Alton Brown says:
When it comes to turkey, Stuffing Is Evil. That's because stuffing goes into the middle of the bird and is extremely porous. That means that as the turkey around it cooks, juices that may contain salmonella bacteria soak into the stuffing, which then must be cooked to a minimum of 165°F in order to be safe. Getting the stuffing to this temperature usually means overcooking the turkey.
The way I see it, cooking stuffing inside a turkey turns the turkey into a rather costly seal-a-meal bag. If you're a stuffing fan, I suggest cooking it separately (in which case it's "dressing," not stuffing) and inserting it into the bird while it rests. Odds are no one will notice the difference.
http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/11/alton-brown-says-no-to-stuffing-the-turkey-dressing-thanksgiving.html0 -
Logic has nothing to do with it. 45 degrees still feels cold to the touch. At 45 degrees salmonella multiplies rapidly, by the thousands. Also, cold doesn't kill bacteria, so if it happened to be infected heavily in the first place, then sat out for a few hours at 45 degrees, that could be fatal. Granted, we're talking a roughly 1 in a million chance, but it's still a logical possibility. Any restaurant of food service company would have to throw it away.If it was cold in the refrigerator, then everyone would say it is fine.
If it is still cold on the counter, people freak out.
Does anyone else logic? If it's still cold, then of course it's just fine. If it got up to room temperature, then definitely no, but it didn't.
Seriously....0 -
Exactly, if you make sure the stuffing is cooked, the turkey is ruined, if you make sure the turkey is perfect, the stuffing is contaminated. Besides, there are much better things to stuff inside a turkey while it cooks.With the stuffing, I believe it's because it might interfere with thoroughly cooking the interior + you're increasing the risk of cross-contamination e.g. if there is bacteria in the bird you may contaminate the stuffing as well.
this it's hard to reach that critical 165deg F very risky especially with an improperly thawed bird. and plus it pulls fluid from the bird and dries it out.
Here's what Alton Brown says:
When it comes to turkey, Stuffing Is Evil. That's because stuffing goes into the middle of the bird and is extremely porous. That means that as the turkey around it cooks, juices that may contain salmonella bacteria soak into the stuffing, which then must be cooked to a minimum of 165°F in order to be safe. Getting the stuffing to this temperature usually means overcooking the turkey.
The way I see it, cooking stuffing inside a turkey turns the turkey into a rather costly seal-a-meal bag. If you're a stuffing fan, I suggest cooking it separately (in which case it's "dressing," not stuffing) and inserting it into the bird while it rests. Odds are no one will notice the difference.
http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/11/alton-brown-says-no-to-stuffing-the-turkey-dressing-thanksgiving.html0 -
I cooked it, we ate it, all is well.
I probably overdid it in a bit of paranoia. The legs both fell right off the turkey when taking it out of pan.... but did it in one of those oven bags, so all moist anyways.
I did listen a bit anyways, and did the stuffing in a crock pot. This was actually a lot neater and easier on both prep and serving... may continue that way now!
Thank you all for your input.0 -
I'm glad it turned out OK, everyone is healthy, and your turkey was moist. Plus, bonus points for an easier way to do your stuffing (or dressing, for sticklers)!0
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left mine out all night last night, it's in the fridge now waiting on tomorrow when I'm in for round two of thanksgiving.0
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