Salt, Sugar, Fat
Replies
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Two big takeaways from the book:
1) There is nothing accidental about the way food products are positioned in the store or otherwise marketed to you. And every single ingredient is meticulously studied prior to being processed into the food - the manufacturer understands exactly how it will effect you in terms of taste, appearance, and digestion.
I mean, isn't that obvious though? Is it really a shock that food is made to be as tasteful as possible and as marketable as possible to the masses? The whole point of owning a business is to get people to buy your product. I don't see anything nefarious about it.0 -
When I read this thread title, I thought, "Frosting!"
Nope, didn't read the book.
I'm sure the people who sell food do try to make food that tastes as good as possible and will make people want to buy more and more of it. I have no problem with that. People get their potato chips and those guys get their money. Win-win.
Although I'm all about healthy eating for myself, I'm not out to make the whole world give up their Oreos, you know? Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them. 0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »It also has helped me in the grocery store. I see why the put high fat ,sugar ,and salty products when you enter the store.
At both my mainstream grocery and my WF you enter in the vegetable section. Is this really so unusual?
No, it isn't. But it's not very shopper-friendly. I like to get my frozen stuff and produce last. The less time it takes from cooler to cooler, the better. So, I'd like the produce to come last.
Nobody writes a book about shopping, lol.
It does come in very handy when I just need produce, though. Much quicker in-and-out. So bonus points there. 0 -
Two big takeaways from the book:
1) There is nothing accidental about the way food products are positioned in the store or otherwise marketed to you. And every single ingredient is meticulously studied prior to being processed into the food - the manufacturer understands exactly how it will effect you in terms of taste, appearance, and digestion.
I mean, isn't that obvious though? Is it really a shock that food is made to be as tasteful as possible and as marketable as possible to the masses? The whole point of owning a business is to get people to buy your product. I don't see anything nefarious about it.
After all their shenanigans, "What happens is that your brain gets fooled into thinking the calories have vanished and you’re much more apt to keep eating before the brain sends you a signal …you've had enough," author Michael Moss said."
You don't think that's a little problematic in the context of an obesity epidemic?
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Problematic in what way?0
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Our big department stores have moved produce right up to the entrance. I think this is appealing to the public's expressed desire to "eat healthy". Right next door is the snack aisle.
Costco rather lines up it's promotional items for the week. This past week it was pumpkin pie (Thanksgiving here in Canada).0 -
This is what happens when a corporation fails to read and respond to the market.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/missing-the-mark-5-reasons-why-target-failed-in-canad/article22459819/
That's how we end up with stupid products like fat-reduced peanut butter, or fat-free Jell-O.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »Problematic in what way?
In that their explicit aim is to engineer food taste and texture to override our natural sense of satiety, which would kick in if the food products weren't "blended" etc ? Which makes "willpower" a much more difficult thing to engage? Which means that we're much more likely to overeat those products? Which is likely to contribute to obesity?0 -
Haven't read the book but I know that the 3 ingredients used to make processed good taste good are salt, sugar, and fat. Any food that is labelled as "low" in one of these products will be higher in one or both of the other 2. 100%of the time. Guaranteed. Read your labels!0
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PeachyCarol wrote: »
The obesity problem can't be laid at the feet of any one bad actor.
I don't know, Brendan Frazier is a REALLY bad actor. Are you sure we can't blame this on him?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »It also has helped me in the grocery store. I see why the put high fat ,sugar ,and salty products when you enter the store.
At both my mainstream grocery and my WF you enter in the vegetable section. Is this really so unusual?
No, it isn't. But it's not very shopper-friendly. I like to get my frozen stuff and produce last. The less time it takes from cooler to cooler, the better. So, I'd like the produce to come last.
I tend to pick out my produce first, maybe because of how the store is arranged, heh, but I'm also a super fast shopper and usually just go to pick up specific things. I almost never go through most of the interior, and that's always been the case.0 -
Haven't read the book but I know that the 3 ingredients used to make processed good taste good are salt, sugar, and fat. Any food that is labelled as "low" in one of these products will be higher in one or both of the other 2. 100%of the time. Guaranteed. Read your labels!
Nope, unless you mean as a percentage basis. Skim dairy has no more salt or sugar (again, except as a percentage of calories) than full fat dairy.0 -
When I read this thread title, I thought, "Frosting!"
Nope, didn't read the book.
I'm sure the people who sell food do try to make food that tastes as good as possible and will make people want to buy more and more of it. I have no problem with that. People get their potato chips and those guys get their money. Win-win.
It's actually a pretty good book, although hardly surprising and it didn't change how I ate a bit (I eat almost none of the food they talk about anyway).
I agree with you, of course.
Also, when I cook, especially for special occasions or company, I try to make my food as appealing as possible too. In that I always think homemade food is tastier than the packaged stuff, I find the arguments that packaged stuff is impossible to stop eating (which is not really what the book says) to be odd.
My pet view is that processed food companies have contributed to the obesity epidemic more by helping to convince us that we should be eating constantly and making it incredibly easy to do that (but I'm a sensible person, so I can decide that's a bad idea and act on that decision).
The part of the book on fat and cheese was the most interesting, IMO.0 -
I was big in to natural cooking when my children were small. Which means, as it is with generations before me, they rebelled. Their most coveted foods were Kraft Dinner and KFC. I scoured the ingredients list on the Kraft Dinner box to wangle their secret. I think it's dry mustard.
And Murphy's law and all that, I have a husband who prefers Hamburger Helper Stroganoff over my home-made version.
*sigh*
On the plus side, my Chicken Schnitzel is pretty well universally loved.0 -
Two big takeaways from the book:
1) There is nothing accidental about the way food products are positioned in the store or otherwise marketed to you. And every single ingredient is meticulously studied prior to being processed into the food - the manufacturer understands exactly how it will effect you in terms of taste, appearance, and digestion.
I mean, isn't that obvious though? Is it really a shock that food is made to be as tasteful as possible and as marketable as possible to the masses? The whole point of owning a business is to get people to buy your product. I don't see anything nefarious about it.
After all their shenanigans, "What happens is that your brain gets fooled into thinking the calories have vanished and you’re much more apt to keep eating before the brain sends you a signal …you've had enough," author Michael Moss said."
You don't think that's a little problematic in the context of an obesity epidemic?
No. It's not a food company's remit to babysit what happens to the food once it leaves the grocery store shelf.
The idea that they are responsible for how much someone eats of the food is as ridiculous as blaming my grandmother for making pancakes so delicious I could never eat less than 7 of them when I was a kid.
Honestly, they aren't innocent in manipulating you to BUY more, but how much and quickly you eat?
That's on you.
The abdication of personal responsibility is one of the most frightening trends in science reporting regarding the obesity epidemic.
I've noticed that there tends to be pendulum swings in thought on all sorts of issues. You tend to be able to do that when you're older. I'm sure this "oh, it's not you, it's xyz" regarding obesity is a swing in the opposite direction in response to the overt and horrible fat shaming and blaming people my age grew up with from doctors and the like.
Hopefully, the pendulum will settle somewhere in the middle on a reasonable finding in all of this.
Too far in either extreme is not the answer.
Blaming someone else isn't the answer.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »
The obesity problem can't be laid at the feet of any one bad actor.
I don't know, Brendan Frazier is a REALLY bad actor. Are you sure we can't blame this on him?
I don't know. If you watched a lot of his stuff, it could make you lose your appetite.
He could solve the obesity crisis!0 -
I was big in to natural cooking when my children were small. Which means, as it is with generations before me, they rebelled. Their most coveted foods were Kraft Dinner and KFC. I scoured the ingredients list on the Kraft Dinner box to wangle their secret. I think it's dry mustard.
And Murphy's law and all that, I have a husband who prefers Hamburger Helper Stroganoff over my home-made version.
*sigh*
On the plus side, my Chicken Schnitzel is pretty well universally loved.
I've tried dry mustard in my mac and cheese. I still couldn't get that certain flavor I was looking for.0 -
My poor son was raised on pretty much all junk, all the time and went off to college and began eating healthy, lol. I cannot take credit for that! He switched back...a little too much, I think. My fault! He was also into weight lifting and protein powder and keto dieting. I managed to talk him out of the keto thing, but he still eats those protein powders.I was big in to natural cooking when my children were small. Which means, as it is with generations before me, they rebelled. Their most coveted foods were Kraft Dinner and KFC. I scoured the ingredients list on the Kraft Dinner box to wangle their secret. I think it's dry mustard.
And Murphy's law and all that, I have a husband who prefers Hamburger Helper Stroganoff over my home-made version.
*sigh*
On the plus side, my Chicken Schnitzel is pretty well universally loved.
I don't know what is in the Kraft Dinner, but God, that stuff is good. I miss Kraft Dinner SO MUCH.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »Two big takeaways from the book:
1) There is nothing accidental about the way food products are positioned in the store or otherwise marketed to you. And every single ingredient is meticulously studied prior to being processed into the food - the manufacturer understands exactly how it will effect you in terms of taste, appearance, and digestion.
I mean, isn't that obvious though? Is it really a shock that food is made to be as tasteful as possible and as marketable as possible to the masses? The whole point of owning a business is to get people to buy your product. I don't see anything nefarious about it.
After all their shenanigans, "What happens is that your brain gets fooled into thinking the calories have vanished and you’re much more apt to keep eating before the brain sends you a signal …you've had enough," author Michael Moss said."
You don't think that's a little problematic in the context of an obesity epidemic?
No. It's not a food company's remit to babysit what happens to the food once it leaves the grocery store shelf.
The idea that they are responsible for how much someone eats of the food is as ridiculous as blaming my grandmother for making pancakes so delicious I could never eat less than 7 of them when I was a kid.
Honestly, they aren't innocent in manipulating you to BUY more, but how much and quickly you eat?
That's on you.
The abdication of personal responsibility is one of the most frightening trends in science reporting regarding the obesity epidemic.
I've noticed that there tends to be pendulum swings in thought on all sorts of issues. You tend to be able to do that when you're older. I'm sure this "oh, it's not you, it's xyz" regarding obesity is a swing in the opposite direction in response to the overt and horrible fat shaming and blaming people my age grew up with from doctors and the like.
Hopefully, the pendulum will settle somewhere in the middle on a reasonable finding in all of this.
Too far in either extreme is not the answer.
Blaming someone else isn't the answer.
I think you have misunderstood the nature of the food scientists' work and also of human hunger etc0 -
Thanks for the heads up. I opened the summary below and plan to read more.
newbooksinbrief.com/2013/04/17/33-a-summary-of-salt-sugar-fat-how-the-food-giants-hooked-us-by-michael-moss/
scalar.usc.edu/works/uiuc-food-networks/media/MichaelMoss_SaltSugarFat2013_2.1.pdf0 -
fruttibiscotti wrote: »Yes, but I don't agree with it entirely. My view is sugar = not so good, salt = don't see the problem with it, fat = very good nutrient when it comes from natural animal and plant sources. The problem with carbs and sugar eating epidemic is overshadowed by two other factors that do not contribute to problems. It's like blaming the sibling of a criminal for committing a crime.[/qquote)
Sodium in excess is known to raise blood pressure, cause fluid retention. Fat especially the wrong type of fats can narrow arteries, cause blood sugars to process incorrectly. Nothing is evil in moderation but the cumulation when using too many processed foods can threaten health.That's the lesson to take away.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Two big takeaways from the book:
1) There is nothing accidental about the way food products are positioned in the store or otherwise marketed to you. And every single ingredient is meticulously studied prior to being processed into the food - the manufacturer understands exactly how it will effect you in terms of taste, appearance, and digestion.
I mean, isn't that obvious though? Is it really a shock that food is made to be as tasteful as possible and as marketable as possible to the masses? The whole point of owning a business is to get people to buy your product. I don't see anything nefarious about it.
After all their shenanigans, "What happens is that your brain gets fooled into thinking the calories have vanished and you’re much more apt to keep eating before the brain sends you a signal …you've had enough," author Michael Moss said."
You don't think that's a little problematic in the context of an obesity epidemic?
No. It's not a food company's remit to babysit what happens to the food once it leaves the grocery store shelf.
The idea that they are responsible for how much someone eats of the food is as ridiculous as blaming my grandmother for making pancakes so delicious I could never eat less than 7 of them when I was a kid.
Honestly, they aren't innocent in manipulating you to BUY more, but how much and quickly you eat?
That's on you.
The abdication of personal responsibility is one of the most frightening trends in science reporting regarding the obesity epidemic.
I've noticed that there tends to be pendulum swings in thought on all sorts of issues. You tend to be able to do that when you're older. I'm sure this "oh, it's not you, it's xyz" regarding obesity is a swing in the opposite direction in response to the overt and horrible fat shaming and blaming people my age grew up with from doctors and the like.
Hopefully, the pendulum will settle somewhere in the middle on a reasonable finding in all of this.
Too far in either extreme is not the answer.
Blaming someone else isn't the answer.
I think you have misunderstood the nature of the food scientists' work and also of human hunger etc
I have understood it.
They still don't come to the store, make you put the food in your cart, bring it home, open the box, and eat it.
I fully understand the science of hunger and how it can be manipulated.
Perhaps you're underestimating the other half of the equation.
I am not saying they're not using every advantage available to them. They're in business, that's what business people do.
But obesity is a complex problem, people's reasons for overeating are complex. Blaming the food itself is often the wrong way of looking at it. why is the person using (often hyper-palatable engineered to be more-ish) food and why are they eating constantly? why do they habitually eat at certain times?
Answer those questions first. People had those habits and still have those habits regardless of the foods they are eating.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »Problematic in what way?
In that their explicit aim is to engineer food taste and texture to override our natural sense of satiety, which would kick in if the food products weren't "blended" etc ? Which makes "willpower" a much more difficult thing to engage? Which means that we're much more likely to overeat those products? Which is likely to contribute to obesity?
Ah. No, I don't see that as problematic.0 -
Yes, I've read a summary of the book and seen the documentaries that have sprung from it.
The West's relationship with sugar has changed massively over 150 years.
Sugar (white added sugar) used to be a very small component in the 1850s and 1860s but it's now a very big component in the westernised food chain.
The farmers/plantation owners and their marketing authorities got us hooked.0 -
I read "Sweet Poison" by David Gillespie about two years ago. (I've since bought two other associated books by the same author.)
Kindle Editions here but you can link to paperbacks. http://www.amazon.com/David-Gillespie/e/B003F3HO9O/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1445718452&sr=1-1
I have dropped 23kg (49 pounds) since April 1st 2014 by just cutting out processed foods with added sugar and reducing my bread consumption.
I still have a couple of beers per week and I have a dessert at once (occasionally twice) per week but I'm off the treadmill of cakes, biscuits/cookies, ice-cream, sweetened soda drinks and sweetened chocolates.
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David Gillespie enlisted the help of his father-in-law, a doctor, and examined changes in the Australian/USA/Western diet over the last 150 years. Aside from exercise/exertion, the biggest difference was the processing of sugar (empty calories) into most factory foods.
His assertion is that Australia's pioneers ate about 1.5kg of sucrose (sugar-bowl white sugar) per annum whereas today we eat that in six to nine days.
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There are major benefits to me. Consistent energy levels. Less moody and 'flat' periods.0 -
I recently listened to this audiobook. It was fascinating and appalling at the same time. Corporations that we trusted (Kellogg, Nestle, Kraft, Oscar Meyer, etc.) sacrificed quality and nutrition in the relentless pursuit of market share and profitability, while the government largely ignored it. No, they aren’t solely responsible, of course there is personal responsibility involved in what you consume, but they certainly greased the skids as this country descended into the obese mess that it is today.
It was especially interesting in regard to products targeted at children like cereal, Lunchables, juice boxes, etc., and the trickery that went into marketing these things (“eating frosted mini-wheats makes your kids smarter!” “100% natural & contains fresh fruit! (fruit juice from concentrate almost totally depleted of any nutritional value)”.
The food industry preyed upon the desire for convenience when the country transitioned to two-income households and the lack of consumer sophistication in understanding the consequences of dumping sugar/salt/fat into the food supply in order to hook people and increase its shelf life.
Great summary 0 -
margaretturk wrote: »Has anyone else read the book Salt, Sugar, Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us by Michael Moss? Did you find it helpful in helping you change your diet? Did you notice an improvement in your life because of it?
I read it and liked it. It didn't change my shopping choices because I already ate very limited ultra processed foods and was familiar with these points already:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/food-cravings-engineered-by-industry-1.1395225
...But many ingredients in processed food have nothing to do with taste. They're there to reproduce a certain texture, to control the moisture level, to keep the various ingredients from separating and spoiling during the months that they will sit on the shelves.
"Absolutely, that's essential to the processed food industry, that their food be able to remain in a warehouse, in shipping, and then in the grocery story for weeks or months at a time," Moss said.
To mask the bitterness or sourness that the formulations can cause, the food industry uses flavour enhancers, invisible ingredients that trick the brain into tasting something that isn’t there, and not tasting something that is there.
"Ingredients like that are kind of bundled under what may seem like relatively innocuous labels like 'natural flavours' or even 'artificial flavours,' when truly they are much more surprising when consumers really understand what it is," Bruce Bradley, the former food industry executive, said. "There's tremendous amounts of money spent behind creating tastes and smells that feel real but in reality are completely artificial."
'These products are designed to keep you coming back to eat more and more and more. They're trying to increase their share of your stomach.' Because without flavour enhancement, no one would eat it. "It would taste horrible, you'd want to spit it out," Bradley said.
...Bruce Bradley says all of that processing takes food to a different place. "We're not talking about food actually being real anymore. It's synthetic, completely contrived and created, and there's so many problems about that because our bodies are tricked and when our bodies are tricked repeatedly dramatic things can happen, like weight gain or endocrine disruption, diabetes and hypertension," he said.
What about the scientists who created these products? Moss says some of them are having second thoughts about their popular creations. "A number of the people I talked to invented these icons really in a more innocent era, when our dependence on processed foods was much less than it is now. And over time, they've come to regret how their inventions have come to be so heavily depended on by us. So yes, any number of these scientists are now looking for ways to help their companies improve the health profile of their products."0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »It also has helped me in the grocery store. I see why the put high fat ,sugar ,and salty products when you enter the store.
At both my mainstream grocery and my WF you enter in the vegetable section. Is this really so unusual?
Are you in Australia? Because same with me and I'm in Australia - straight into the veggies and fruits!!0 -
camilacreme wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »It also has helped me in the grocery store. I see why the put high fat ,sugar ,and salty products when you enter the store.
At both my mainstream grocery and my WF you enter in the vegetable section. Is this really so unusual?
Are you in Australia? Because same with me and I'm in Australia - straight into the veggies and fruits!!
Aussie here too, and every supermarket I've been in has the fruit and vegie section as soon as you walk in.
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camilacreme wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »It also has helped me in the grocery store. I see why the put high fat ,sugar ,and salty products when you enter the store.
At both my mainstream grocery and my WF you enter in the vegetable section. Is this really so unusual?
Are you in Australia? Because same with me and I'm in Australia - straight into the veggies and fruits!!
I believe she's in Chicago, but this has been my experience as well in Fresno, California.0
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