Gary Taubes
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"That rat study disproves my belief. Rat studies are bad because rats aren't humans. Here, look at these studies that prove my belief. They were also done on rats, but since they agree with my confirmation bias, these rat studies are good."0
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"That rat study disproves my belief. Rat studies are bad because rats aren't humans. Here, look at these studies that prove my belief. They were also done on rats, but since they agree with my confirmation bias, these rat studies are good."
:laugh:0 -
Hello I am one of those LOWcarb jerks... I lived in Italy for 9 months and I ate pizza everyday But I only lost a few pounds. I only was able to MAINTAIN those few poundsbecause I was walking everywhere!Every single one of these no-carb jerks are idiots.
Have you been to France, Paris in particular? People eat BREAD, great bread btw, every single day. It's amazing bread and guess what? They are thin as the thinnest Asians.
Italy - Sophia Loren said that her gorgeous body was due to PASTA. She was also pretty skinny most of her life too. PASTA people. PASTA.
I've been to Italy and Italians for the most part are THIN. Southern Italians too but there is NO STIGMA in Italy about what size you are. However most Italians are RAIL THIN. And they eat loads of CARBS.
Germans are thin too, RAIL THIN. They eat potatoes, loads of them, all the time, and bread, loads of it, and they are THIN.
I now live in America and eat not too many carbs. and I have lost more weight than I did while in italy.. and i dont exercise DIFFERENCE
I saw plenty of obese people in Germany by the way.......And I saw the sizes they had while going to there mall.0 -
I bet they don't eat "loads of carbs". I bet they eat probably a 40/30/30 diet because their portion sizes are much smaller (from my experience in each of the countries the rude fellow listed).
Hello I am one of those LOWcarb jerks... I lived in Italy for 9 months and I ate pizza everyday But I only lost a few pounds. I only was able to MAINTAIN those few poundsbecause I was walking everywhere!Every single one of these no-carb jerks are idiots.
Have you been to France, Paris in particular? People eat BREAD, great bread btw, every single day. It's amazing bread and guess what? They are thin as the thinnest Asians.
Italy - Sophia Loren said that her gorgeous body was due to PASTA. She was also pretty skinny most of her life too. PASTA people. PASTA.
I've been to Italy and Italians for the most part are THIN. Southern Italians too but there is NO STIGMA in Italy about what size you are. However most Italians are RAIL THIN. And they eat loads of CARBS.
Germans are thin too, RAIL THIN. They eat potatoes, loads of them, all the time, and bread, loads of it, and they are THIN.
I now live in America and eat not too many carbs. and I have lost more weight than I did while in italy.. and i dont exercise DIFFERENCE
I saw plenty of obese people in Germany by the way.......And I saw the sizes they had while going to there mall.0 -
Hello I am one of those LOWcarb jerks... I lived in Italy for 9 months and I ate pizza everyday But I only lost a few pounds. I only was able to MAINTAIN those few poundsbecause I was walking everywhere!Every single one of these no-carb jerks are idiots.
Have you been to France, Paris in particular? People eat BREAD, great bread btw, every single day. It's amazing bread and guess what? They are thin as the thinnest Asians.
Italy - Sophia Loren said that her gorgeous body was due to PASTA. She was also pretty skinny most of her life too. PASTA people. PASTA.
I've been to Italy and Italians for the most part are THIN. Southern Italians too but there is NO STIGMA in Italy about what size you are. However most Italians are RAIL THIN. And they eat loads of CARBS.
Germans are thin too, RAIL THIN. They eat potatoes, loads of them, all the time, and bread, loads of it, and they are THIN.
I now live in America and eat not too many carbs. and I have lost more weight than I did while in italy.. and i dont exercise DIFFERENCE
I saw plenty of obese people in Germany by the way.......And I saw the sizes they had while going to there mall.
Epic bump to make a silly argument.0 -
"That rat study disproves my belief. Rat studies are bad because rats aren't humans. Here, look at these studies that prove my belief. They were also done on rats, but since they agree with my confirmation bias, these rat studies are good."
swoon0 -
It's a ridiculous overstatement to assume that "low-carb" means you can't eat anything with carbs in it. That's not generally possible, since even low-carb vegetables have some carbs. I eat a mostly low-carb diet. I still eat pasta and bread and candy, just not often.
I eat eggs and bacon for breakfast, which holds me over well into the afternoon. With my breakfast and with a low-carb lunch or snacks, I can still eat pasta or bread for dinner and still be low-carb. Even with a limit of 40-60 g carbs, you can fit in quite a nice portion of high-carb food. You just can't shove your face into a mountain of calzone.0 -
I've spent quite a bit of time in France, and Italy. What struck me was how different the bread tasted and how small the portions were, and how small the pasta portions were. But yes, the French paradox is quite well known. It's apparently also changing as they transition more and more to our diets. Same with the asian communities known for being lean.Every single one of these no-carb jerks are idiots.
Have you been to France, Paris in particular? People eat BREAD, great bread btw, every single day. It's amazing bread and guess what? They are thin as the thinnest Asians.
Italy - Sophia Loren said that her gorgeous body was due to PASTA. She was also pretty skinny most of her life too. PASTA people. PASTA.
I've been to Italy and Italians for the most part are THIN. Southern Italians too but there is NO STIGMA in Italy about what size you are. However most Italians are RAIL THIN. And they eat loads of CARBS.
Germans are thin too, RAIL THIN. They eat potatoes, loads of them, all the time, and bread, loads of it, and they are THIN.
About the French Paradox, I love this quote...
"Americans are amazed to learn that some of the cultures that set their culinary course by the light of habit and pleasure rather then nutritional science and marketing are actually healthier then we are–that is, suffer a lower incidence of diet-related health troubles.
The French paradox is the most famous such case, though as Paul Rozin points out, the French don't regard the matter as paradoxical at all. We Americans resort to that term because the French experience–a population of wine-swilling cheese eaters with lower rates of heart disease and obesity–confounds our orthodoxy about food. That orthodoxy regards certain tasty foods as poisons (carbs now, fats then), failing to appreciate that how we eat, and even how we feel about eating, may in the end be just as important as what we eat. The French eat all sorts of supposedly unhealthy foods, but they do it according to a strict and stable set of rules: They eat small portions and don't go back for seconds; they don't snack; they seldom eat alone; and communal meals are long, leisurely affairs. In other words, the French culture of food successfully negotiates the omnivore's dilemma, allowing the French to enjoy their meals without ruining their health.
Perhaps because we have no such culture of food in America almost every question about eating is up for grabs. Fats or carbs? Three squares or continuous grazing? Raw or cooked? Organic or industrial? Veg or vegan? Meat or mock meat? Foods of astounding novelty fill the shelves of our supermarket, and the line between a food and a "nutritional supplement" has fogged to the point where people make meals of protein bars and shakes. Consuming these neo-pseudo-foods alone in our cars, we have become a nation of antinomian eaters, each of us struggling to work out our dietary salvation on our own. Is it any wonder American's suffer from so many eating disorders? In the absence of any lasting consensus about what and how and where to eat, the omnivore's dilemma has returned to America with an almost atavistic force."
–Michael Pollan, The Omnivore's Dilemma0 -
Bump0
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great quote.
I've spent quite a bit of time in France, and Italy. What struck me was how different the bread tasted and how small the portions were, and how small the pasta portions were. But yes, the French paradox is quite well known. It's apparently also changing as they transition more and more to our diets. Same with the asian communities known for being lean.Every single one of these no-carb jerks are idiots.
Have you been to France, Paris in particular? People eat BREAD, great bread btw, every single day. It's amazing bread and guess what? They are thin as the thinnest Asians.
Italy - Sophia Loren said that her gorgeous body was due to PASTA. She was also pretty skinny most of her life too. PASTA people. PASTA.
I've been to Italy and Italians for the most part are THIN. Southern Italians too but there is NO STIGMA in Italy about what size you are. However most Italians are RAIL THIN. And they eat loads of CARBS.
Germans are thin too, RAIL THIN. They eat potatoes, loads of them, all the time, and bread, loads of it, and they are THIN.
About the French Paradox, I love this quote...
"Americans are amazed to learn that some of the cultures that set their culinary course by the light of habit and pleasure rather then nutritional science and marketing are actually healthier then we are–that is, suffer a lower incidence of diet-related health troubles.
The French paradox is the most famous such case, though as Paul Rozin points out, the French don't regard the matter as paradoxical at all. We Americans resort to that term because the French experience–a population of wine-swilling cheese eaters with lower rates of heart disease and obesity–confounds our orthodoxy about food. That orthodoxy regards certain tasty foods as poisons (carbs now, fats then), failing to appreciate that how we eat, and even how we feel about eating, may in the end be just as important as what we eat. The French eat all sorts of supposedly unhealthy foods, but they do it according to a strict and stable set of rules: They eat small portions and don't go back for seconds; they don't snack; they seldom eat alone; and communal meals are long, leisurely affairs. In other words, the French culture of food successfully negotiates the omnivore's dilemma, allowing the French to enjoy their meals without ruining their health.
Perhaps because we have no such culture of food in America almost every question about eating is up for grabs. Fats or carbs? Three squares or continuous grazing? Raw or cooked? Organic or industrial? Veg or vegan? Meat or mock meat? Foods of astounding novelty fill the shelves of our supermarket, and the line between a food and a "nutritional supplement" has fogged to the point where people make meals of protein bars and shakes. Consuming these neo-pseudo-foods alone in our cars, we have become a nation of antinomian eaters, each of us struggling to work out our dietary salvation on our own. Is it any wonder American's suffer from so many eating disorders? In the absence of any lasting consensus about what and how and where to eat, the omnivore's dilemma has returned to America with an almost atavistic force."
–Michael Pollan, The Omnivore's Dilemma0 -
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
I've spent quite a bit of time in France, and Italy. What struck me was how different the bread tasted and how small the portions were, and how small the pasta portions were. But yes, the French paradox is quite well known. It's apparently also changing as they transition more and more to our diets. Same with the asian communities known for being lean.Every single one of these no-carb jerks are idiots.
Have you been to France, Paris in particular? People eat BREAD, great bread btw, every single day. It's amazing bread and guess what? They are thin as the thinnest Asians.
Italy - Sophia Loren said that her gorgeous body was due to PASTA. She was also pretty skinny most of her life too. PASTA people. PASTA.
I've been to Italy and Italians for the most part are THIN. Southern Italians too but there is NO STIGMA in Italy about what size you are. However most Italians are RAIL THIN. And they eat loads of CARBS.
Germans are thin too, RAIL THIN. They eat potatoes, loads of them, all the time, and bread, loads of it, and they are THIN.
About the French Paradox, I love this quote...
"Americans are amazed to learn that some of the cultures that set their culinary course by the light of habit and pleasure rather then nutritional science and marketing are actually healthier then we are–that is, suffer a lower incidence of diet-related health troubles.
The French paradox is the most famous such case, though as Paul Rozin points out, the French don't regard the matter as paradoxical at all. We Americans resort to that term because the French experience–a population of wine-swilling cheese eaters with lower rates of heart disease and obesity–confounds our orthodoxy about food. That orthodoxy regards certain tasty foods as poisons (carbs now, fats then), failing to appreciate that how we eat, and even how we feel about eating, may in the end be just as important as what we eat. The French eat all sorts of supposedly unhealthy foods, but they do it according to a strict and stable set of rules: They eat small portions and don't go back for seconds; they don't snack; they seldom eat alone; and communal meals are long, leisurely affairs. In other words, the French culture of food successfully negotiates the omnivore's dilemma, allowing the French to enjoy their meals without ruining their health.
Perhaps because we have no such culture of food in America almost every question about eating is up for grabs. Fats or carbs? Three squares or continuous grazing? Raw or cooked? Organic or industrial? Veg or vegan? Meat or mock meat? Foods of astounding novelty fill the shelves of our supermarket, and the line between a food and a "nutritional supplement" has fogged to the point where people make meals of protein bars and shakes. Consuming these neo-pseudo-foods alone in our cars, we have become a nation of antinomian eaters, each of us struggling to work out our dietary salvation on our own. Is it any wonder American's suffer from so many eating disorders? In the absence of any lasting consensus about what and how and where to eat, the omnivore's dilemma has returned to America with an almost atavistic force."
–Michael Pollan, The Omnivore's Dilemma0 -
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?0 -
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?
On general principle, I dislike most bloated bureaucracies. I think the FDA qualifies.0 -
In my opinion the only thing they could do good is ban certain things like HFCS
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?0 -
In my opinion the only thing they could do good is ban certain things like HFCS
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?
Oh god.
The funny thing is that the poster you quoted wants to abolish the FDA entirely, while you want to greatly expand their role by banning harmless substances.0 -
I said I don't completely agree with the FDA. HFCS is harmful ... FDA is a monopoly and a bloated one
In my opinion the only thing they could do good is ban certain things like HFCS
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?
Oh god.
The funny thing is that the poster you quoted wants to abolish the FDA entirely, while you want to greatly expand their role by banning harmless substances.0 -
I said I don't completely agree with the FDA. HFCS is harmful ... FDA is a monopoly and a bloated one
In my opinion the only thing they could do good is ban certain things like HFCS
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?
Oh god.
The funny thing is that the poster you quoted wants to abolish the FDA entirely, while you want to greatly expand their role by banning harmless substances.
HFCS is harmful in what context and at what dose? What support do you have for your conclusion?0 -
I'd like to see the scientific research it is based on. From what I have heard, it is zero.
It based on a lot of research - but you have to read his bookd or his articles. If you haven't read it and only going by hearsay, you haven't educated yourself on the topic.
That is what I'm doing - reading it for myself and getting others' thoughts.
The complicating issue with citing sources is that it is quite easy for someone to select only the research that supports his or her conclusion and neglect to consider research that refutes said conclusion/premise.
So you can claim something is "based on science" but if you cite 3 studies to support yourself and there's 15 studies that say the opposite of what you're claiming, then you're not really considering the body of evidence as a whole.
Have you read James Krieger's work yet?
I'll admit, I have not - but I will. I've been reading through Why We Get Fat.
So, SideSteel, would you believe there is a chance, no matter how small, that there could be a wacky problem in the body that "aids" in fat accumulation at all?
Fat accumulation is caused by chronic energy surplus (overconsuming calories over time).
That being said, I also believe that it's reductionist to claim that weight loss is all willpower and nothing else. Obesity is a complex scenario with a multitude of factors that contribute to it and/or contribute to resistance to weight loss.
So while we can say accurately that calorie surpluses lead to fat accumulation and calorie deficits lead to fat loss, that's not necessarily going to help the person who can't manage to adhere to their diet for whatever reason.
See here so you can find the specific links to Krieger's work:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/817143-insulin-low-carbs-gary-taubes-and-james-krieger
Thank you - that was facinating. I especially like this part "The bottom line is that insulin doesn’t deserve the bad reputation it’s been given. It’s one of the main reasons why protein helps reduce hunger. You will get insulin spikes even on a low-carb, high-protein diet. Rather than worrying about insulin, you should worry about whatever diet works the best for you in regards to satiety and sustainability. As mentioned in last week’s issue of Weightology Weekly, individual responses to particular diets are highly variable and what works for one person will not necessarily work for another"0 -
About the French Paradox, I love this quote...
"Americans are amazed to learn that some of the cultures that set their culinary course by the light of habit and pleasure rather then nutritional science and marketing are actually healthier then we are–that is, suffer a lower incidence of diet-related health troubles.
The French paradox is the most famous such case, though as Paul Rozin points out, the French don't regard the matter as paradoxical at all. We Americans resort to that term because the French experience–a population of wine-swilling cheese eaters with lower rates of heart disease and obesity–confounds our orthodoxy about food. That orthodoxy regards certain tasty foods as poisons (carbs now, fats then), failing to appreciate that how we eat, and even how we feel about eating, may in the end be just as important as what we eat. The French eat all sorts of supposedly unhealthy foods, but they do it according to a strict and stable set of rules: They eat small portions and don't go back for seconds; they don't snack; they seldom eat alone; and communal meals are long, leisurely affairs. In other words, the French culture of food successfully negotiates the omnivore's dilemma, allowing the French to enjoy their meals without ruining their health.
Perhaps because we have no such culture of food in America almost every question about eating is up for grabs. Fats or carbs? Three squares or continuous grazing? Raw or cooked? Organic or industrial? Veg or vegan? Meat or mock meat? Foods of astounding novelty fill the shelves of our supermarket, and the line between a food and a "nutritional supplement" has fogged to the point where people make meals of protein bars and shakes. Consuming these neo-pseudo-foods alone in our cars, we have become a nation of antinomian eaters, each of us struggling to work out our dietary salvation on our own. Is it any wonder American's suffer from so many eating disorders? In the absence of any lasting consensus about what and how and where to eat, the omnivore's dilemma has returned to America with an almost atavistic force."
–Michael Pollan, The Omnivore's Dilemma
This is absolutely dead on in my experience with my French colleagues, but it's also true of most of the people I met while working in Spain (Madrid and San Sebastian specifically). I can't generalize to most of Europe, but in my limited experience, most of my European colleagues are very lean and very active and they eat all sorts of deliciously fatty, cheesy, carb-loaded foods. What they don't do, however, is eat huge quantities of it, and they do remain very active throughout the day by walking or cycling to most of their destinations.
I think there's something very important missing from the conversation about obesity in America that is highlighted above. It's our mental approach to food. I prefer the French/Spanish way of thinking about meals as community experiences and food being a labor of love to share with the people in your life than just "sustenance."0 -
I said I don't completely agree with the FDA. HFCS is harmful ... FDA is a monopoly and a bloated one
In my opinion the only thing they could do good is ban certain things like HFCS
I hope every American learns how to cook from scratch and doesnt use substitutes. I don't completely trust our FDA
What if we simply hate the existence of the FDA on general principle?
Oh god.
The funny thing is that the poster you quoted wants to abolish the FDA entirely, while you want to greatly expand their role by banning harmless substances.
HFCS is harmful in what context and at what dose? What support do you have for your conclusion?0
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