Mom's advice to son... Seriously?
SamanthaD1218
Posts: 303 Member
in Chit-Chat
http://us.cnn.com/2013/11/26/opinion/jones-sex-consent-texting/?iref=obnetwork
Does this CNN opinion article rub anyone else the wrong way?? It starts:
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"Watch out for the stupid girls," I tell my son. "They are trouble."
You know the type -- the party girls, the girls who thrive on attention. The girls who will do anything to get a guy to notice them, as the pop star Pink riffs on one of her best-ever songs, "Stupid Girls": "If I act like that, flipping my blond hair back, push up my bra like that ... that guy will call me back."
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This mom is telling her college-aged son to have a girl text him that she is willing to sleep with him before he sleeps with her, supposedly to protect him from getting accused of rape if they have both been drinking. Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
I do understand her concern, especially considering her career and the fact that false rape accusations definitely do occur, but somehow this just makes me really uncomfortable. (I'm sure the author has a sweet son who she is just trying to protect, but writing an article like this for the world to see seems really, really dumb)
Additionally, as someone who has survived serious abuse in a relationship, I find the whole concept disgusting. I may be totally happy in my relationship with a guy one day, which can certainly be reflected in my texts to him, but that certainly does not give him the freedom to do whatever he wants to me the next day.
Thoughts?
Does this CNN opinion article rub anyone else the wrong way?? It starts:
-
"Watch out for the stupid girls," I tell my son. "They are trouble."
You know the type -- the party girls, the girls who thrive on attention. The girls who will do anything to get a guy to notice them, as the pop star Pink riffs on one of her best-ever songs, "Stupid Girls": "If I act like that, flipping my blond hair back, push up my bra like that ... that guy will call me back."
-
This mom is telling her college-aged son to have a girl text him that she is willing to sleep with him before he sleeps with her, supposedly to protect him from getting accused of rape if they have both been drinking. Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
I do understand her concern, especially considering her career and the fact that false rape accusations definitely do occur, but somehow this just makes me really uncomfortable. (I'm sure the author has a sweet son who she is just trying to protect, but writing an article like this for the world to see seems really, really dumb)
Additionally, as someone who has survived serious abuse in a relationship, I find the whole concept disgusting. I may be totally happy in my relationship with a guy one day, which can certainly be reflected in my texts to him, but that certainly does not give him the freedom to do whatever he wants to me the next day.
Thoughts?
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Replies
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So basically his mom wants him to go to a college where people don't drink and have sex ? :huh:0
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Good intentions acted upon stupidly.
Guess she didn't look in the mirror when she said "stupid girls"..0 -
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There's mancode....and there is also momcode.
I'm surprised that you actually think this is the first time this has been said?0 -
the bad thing about those texts, they don't protect you from rape accusations or convictions.
Maybe I've watched too much Law and Order SVU, but I'm pretty sure if you agree to have sex and then in the moment say no, it's still rape.0 -
And what 19 year old follows his mother's advice? What is her career defending attorney? Hopefully she taught him respect first and then how to protect yourself second.0
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So basically his mom wants him to go to a college where people don't drink and have sex ? :huh:
Believe it or not it is completely possible to get through college without getting drunk and having sex. Shocking I know, but it can be done.
I agree with the OP, sex with a relative stranger while intoxicated is just a big no no all around. I understand that it happens, but that doesn't mean mom should treat it like it's inevitable.
Also, calling the girl stupid, um your darling little boy put himself in that situation too..... And if he was SOBER and still made the bad call, then really, who's the stupid one?0 -
There's mancode....and there is also momcode.
I'm surprised that you actually think this is the first time this has been said?
I'm very sure this is not the first time it's been said. I'm just very disappointed to see it posted on CNN's website.
Like I said, I'm sure she has discussed this with her son and raised him with the proper values. But putting that online could wrongly make many people think that they can do whatever they want as long as they get a text "proving" consent.0 -
Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?0 -
Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?
The mom knows that her son will probably be attracted to someone like his mom. Ergo her concerns about him dating "stupid girls"0 -
Women can't handle alcohol.........FACT. When Men drink they can read minds, but cannot predict the futureUmm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?0 -
There is so much fail in that article it nearly, but not quite, comes all the way back around to a win.
First up the obvious. Consent in advance doesn't equate to consent in the moment. Consent can be withdrawn at any time. Heck, consent can be withdrawn half way through the act. "But you texted me" means squat.
Secondly, there is no way a jury in a rape trial is going to give any weight to this, for the reasons stated above and also because I can't imagine it's hard to take a drunk girl's phone and text yourself.
Better advice is "don't screw drunk, crazy college girls who aren't coherent enough to give consent, or who may regret giving consent the next day".
I do understand where the mom is coming from, though. These attempts to retroactively withdraw consent seem to be getting more commonplace. I'd hate to be the judge trying to weigh up genuine rape victims against crazy girls who just regret their actions and are willing to destroy a person's life to save their own reputation.0 -
Personally, I would be going a different direction with my son when it comes to sex. I understand what she is doing trying to protect him in a day and age where an attorney can twist up an incident and ruin you. However, she is also shaping his lifelong perception and perpetuating a stereotype that women are lying, manipulative vixens who can't be trusted.0
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My first thought is that if a girl texts a guy saying she will consent to sleeping with him, then that text might make it on the internet somehow. Not necessarily the best thing for the girl's reputation.
My second thought is *kitten*, my son is 14... nearly there!0 -
So basically his mom wants him to go to a college where people don't drink and have sex ? :huh:
Believe it or not it is completely possible to get through college without getting drunk and having sex. Shocking I know, but it can be done.
I agree with the OP, sex with a relative stranger while intoxicated is just a big no no all around. I understand that it happens, but that doesn't mean mom should treat it like it's inevitable.
Also, calling the girl stupid, um your darling little boy put himself in that situation too..... And if he was SOBER and still made the bad call, then really, who's the stupid one?
What if you goto school online...can drinking by yourself and rubbing one out everyday count?0 -
Regardless of the way she said it, kudos to mom for having this conversation with her son.0
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Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?
If we're talking honest equality, there is no difference. Whether male or female, you put yourself in that situation, there may be consequences. The closest I think we could come to treating a situation like this fairly would be to establish something like superior position in fights. If both parties can be proven to be equally intoxicated then both parties are equally liable, but if one party is clearly taking advantage of someone's inebriated state, that person is responsible for what happens. Of course PROVING any of that would be about impossible. At least in a fight there's forensic evidence that can be used to establish superior position.
Which brings us back to my first statement, sex with a stranger while inebriated = NO.0 -
Eeeew, just eeew.
Wrongful accusations of rape make up such a small percentage compared to actual rape, that the fact she is driving that point home to her son if gross, and another example of how rape culture skews the advantage to men. A text won't fully protect him in the case that he needs protection, not any more so than the fact that he is a guy, so the odds of getting away with it are already in his favor.
Also, a tasteful text afterwards? not so tasteful.
One thing that actually makes sense, making a concerted effort to confirm consent. It won't just help him not to be accused of rape, it will help him not to rape people.0 -
So basically his mom wants him to go to a college where people don't drink and have sex ? :huh:
Believe it or not it is completely possible to get through college without getting drunk and having sex. Shocking I know, but it can be done.
I agree with the OP, sex with a relative stranger while intoxicated is just a big no no all around. I understand that it happens, but that doesn't mean mom should treat it like it's inevitable.
Also, calling the girl stupid, um your darling little boy put himself in that situation too..... And if he was SOBER and still made the bad call, then really, who's the stupid one?
What if you goto school online...can drinking by yourself and rubbing one out everyday count?
If the drunken stranger in this situation is the left hand you've been sitting on for the last 20 minutes..... go for it. :laugh:0 -
Women can't handle alcohol.........FACT. When Men drink they can read minds, but cannot predict the futureUmm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?
no sandwich in your future! :grumble:0 -
Not impressed.
There's such a paucity of decent guidance for young men and women regarding accountability. All young people should be explicitly told in no uncertain terms that they own their bodies, lives, choices, and consequences of those choices, and having sex while intoxicated and consent is blurry is a very bad choice for young men AND women, with the potential for horrible consequences for both. So DON'T.
A suitcase full of condoms and some crap advice to get a meaningless consent text does not, IMO, drive this point home. What it does do is tell her son an ineffective strategy to shield him from his own bad choices, and that a woman's default setting is manipulation and entrapment. Awesome!
But so many parents prefer to be their kids' friends today, and with so many adults showing they too have zero accountability and terrible judgment I'm not surprised to see advice like this being given. You can't teach what you don't know.
Now I'm grumpy.
Get off my lawn.0 -
She should have always taught him to respect women and treat them like people, and understand and respect sex as well. That women are capable of thinking and making decisions and are worth of friendship and even love. That sex is natural and enjoyable but shouldn't be treated as a recreational activity.
Nah, that would never work.0 -
Arghbowl is DTF on 12/23/13 at 1535.
Come n get it ladies.0 -
Arghbowl is DTF on 12/23/13 at 1535.
Come n get it ladies.
Dibs0 -
Arghbowl is DTF on 12/23/13 at 1535.
Come n get it ladies.
Dibs
Meet you in the back of your uncles Pinto?0 -
This content has been removed.
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Arghbowl is DTF on 12/23/13 at 1535.
Come n get it ladies.
Dibs
Meet you in the back of your uncles Pinto?
El Camino, jacka$$0 -
Arghbowl is DTF on 12/23/13 at 1535.
Come n get it ladies.
Dibs
Meet you in the back of your uncles Pinto?
El Camino, jacka$$
More drugs fit in the Pinto though. Does it have hydraulics? I'd hate to break his drug running mobile.0 -
Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?
i never understand why women embrace this concept when it seems inherently sexist. A man is fully capable of giving consent while inebriated but a woman is not? or some times is, sometimes isn't?
I mean, if a someone is so f-ed up they can barely walk or talk, your not really in a position to concent, but most of the time that doesn't seem to be the kind of state of drunkeness most people are talking about when they refer to this issue.0 -
Umm... how about just teaching your son to not sleep with intoxicated girls? And not referring to girls who drink in college as "stupid girls?"
but what if the son is also intoxicated ? why is there more of a onus on him to be more in control when he's intoxicated and know to not have sex with an intoxicated girl than it is for an intoxicated girl to know to not have sex if she's intoxicated?
i never understand why women embrace this concept when it seems inherently sexist. A man is fully capable of giving consent while inebriated but a woman is not? or some times is, sometimes isn't?
I mean, if a someone is so f-ed up they can barely walk or talk, your not really in a position to concent, but most of the time that doesn't seem to be the kind of state of drunkeness most people are talking about when they refer to this issue.
Truth. I've been lady raped.0
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