Muscles can lift what the tendons can't, learn from me

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  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    Even when it's put under stress, it's still trying to rebuild constantly. Obviously if you keep POUNDING it into the ground, it won't be able to keep up. If, however, you keep placing it under *some* strain repeatedly to the point that it has to recognize what's happening as an ongoing activity it needs to nut up and deal with, then some interesting adaptations can occur.



    This makes me wonder if simply doing a few rounds of bodyweight squats and pushups would be enough on off-days to stimulate the muscles/tendons/ligaments while not overexerting oneself. Not having read up on this, any ideas if I'm correct? Or would the load(s) need to be greater?
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    This also isn't just sports stuff- my dance instructors keep foam rollers at the studio- we use them a LOT on IT bands. It works the same way as a massage- no one questions that those are effective? why is foam rolling any different? it's just a self perpetuated/regulated massage.

    Or do we really not have any science to back that up either (not being argumentative- really earnestly asking)

    Or are we challenging why massages work as well?

    It is different from a massage actually, in one very key way. Massage causes shearing between tissues, where rolling only "rolls" over a given point. So in the later, there's little if any "myofascial release". It's almost equivalent to pressing down on a given spot.

    Now, as for the efficacy of massages, I have no idea how/why they might work/not work. Does feel good though, and in my experiance.

    Also, rolling has seemed to help me, somehow, especially with my hips. That said, when I started with the rolling, I also started with some other stretching.

    the type of massage you encounter makes a big difference.

    This type of stuff is very much in the swedish deep tissue Pin and Stretch technique department. in that sense ART is not new- just reformated and fits nicely under Chiro work.

    and if you think there is no shearing going on- clearly you have never rolled your IT band enough with a hard enough object. LOL chit feels like it's tearing you apart.
    same with knots on my back.

    it's not JUST rolling.
    The increased blood flow idea actually makes more sense to me than anything else I've heard. Most of what I've read says that actual research doesn't support the idea that scar tissue is actually being broken up, but the science is still REALLY fuzzy. The bottom of that Contreras article links to a ton of other stuff, also.

    I concur- I'm kind of okay with it because it sort of makes more sense than just inflammation inflammation inflammation- but releasing scar tissue into the body just only kind of doesn't jive to my brain but I'm sure there has to be SOMEWHERE that came from- mabye one of those detox/cleanse rubbish things- I remember reading an article about it some that sounded sensical to me- but gosh that was a while ago- now I need to know.
  • brian1383
    brian1383 Posts: 39 Member
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    I had severe tendonitis in my elbows a few years ago. Being a typical man, I figured I'd just work through it. Do you know what it looks like when you completely detach the bicep tendon on a big deadlift? Picture an alien baby's head crawling up your arm under the skin. Surgery to reattach it, a 8 inch scar on my inner arm, and a deformed bicep at the point of lower attachment (the surgeon said that was because of muscle girth, but who knows -- he may have botched it a bit. Either way, it's on me).

    In the ensuing years, my body weight swelled, muscle just wasted, and I actually felt depressed over being so tired and weak.

    I know this sounds like a lecture, but PLEASE listen to your body. You listen to it when it lets you lift big weight, why not when its giving you sound advice about the need for additional recovery?

    Good luck and be well!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    This makes me wonder if simply doing a few rounds of bodyweight squats and pushups would be enough on off-days to stimulate the muscles/tendons/ligaments while not overexerting oneself. Not having read up on this, any ideas if I'm correct? Or would the load(s) need to be greater?

    I tore myself up doing body weight stuff- there are actually a few doctors who are adamantly against things like push ups- there is no moderation- a bar you can always go lighter to the point of nothing- body weight you have to be strong enough to do it and that's all there is to it.

    Like me right now- I can't do push ups- nope nope nope nope. There is no regulating it- it's all or nothing- and I can't take it.

    So in some regards it's NOT better- I like body weight stuff- but if you are injured- they are not always the best- this is why a lot of rehab involves bands and 0.5 to 5 lbs weights.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312643/

    in case you tl:dr

    this is very important and one of the reasons I really start digging into this- this resonated and made a lot of sense to me
    The most important reason to distinguish between tendinitis and tendinosis is the differing treatment goals and timelines. The most prominent treatment goal for tendinitis is to reduce inflammation, a condition that isn’t present in tendinosis. In fact, some treatments to reduce inflammation are contraindicated with tendinosis. Ibuprofen, a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory, is associated with inhibited collagen repair(9). Corticosteroid injections inhibited collagen repair in one study, and were found to be a predictor of later tendon tears(3,4,10).

    The healing time for tendinitis is several days to 6 weeks, depending on whether treatment starts with early presentation or chronic presentation(3). Khan et al.(3) state that treatment for tendinosis recognized at an early stage can be as brief as 6–10 weeks; however, treatment once the tendinosis has become chronic can take 3–6 months. It is suggested by Rattray and Ludwig(10) that effective treatment might take up to 9 months once the tendinosis is chronic. Knowing these timelines is part of creating an effective treatment plan. Khan(3) reportedly suggests that tendons “require over 100 days to make new collagen.” Given this claim, treating chronic tendinosis for a matter of weeks would provide little benefit to the long-term repair of the tendon.

    knowing what's going on is important in how you treat it- especially if you have a chronic injury like this.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    Oh, I wasn't meaning for rehab purposes. I was simply referring to the quote huffdogg posted with regards to helping keep the tendons/ligaments in shape - kinda like active rest/recovery, I guess. I may not be verbalizing my thought process well. Wouldn't be the first time.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
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    This makes me wonder if simply doing a few rounds of bodyweight squats and pushups would be enough on off-days to stimulate the muscles/tendons/ligaments while not overexerting oneself. Not having read up on this, any ideas if I'm correct? Or would the load(s) need to be greater?

    For instance, a bodyweight pushup is equal to benching 2/3rds of your weight. That's not light. That would be a good 25 lbs heavier than what my PT has advised me to do.

    Devil's in the details lol, you could definitely hurt yourself doing BW stuff too. It's all about pacing and starting light.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Devil's in the details

    QFT
  • Fullsterkur_woman
    Fullsterkur_woman Posts: 2,712 Member
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    For instance, a bodyweight pushup is equal to benching 2/3rds of your weight.
    That explains why I do ALL THE DEADLIFTS but still have to do incline pushups. :embarassed:
  • Fullsterkur_woman
    Fullsterkur_woman Posts: 2,712 Member
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    Bob Peoples set a deadlift record in 1949 that stood for over 20 years. His program was to pull heavy triples every day. The guy ripped 700 lbs at 180.
    If I do heavy triples every day (which sounds absolutely awesome to me, BTW, for serious!), how long do you think it'll take to add 480 pounds to my deadlift? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Bob Peoples set a deadlift record in 1949 that stood for over 20 years. His program was to pull heavy triples every day. The guy ripped 700 lbs at 180.
    If I do heavy triples every day (which sounds absolutely awesome to me, BTW, for serious!), how long do you think it'll take to add 480 pounds to my deadlift? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    LOLOLOL
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    man you're greedy!!!

    I just want to add another 20 or so to mine....

    for now.
  • Fullsterkur_woman
    Fullsterkur_woman Posts: 2,712 Member
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    man you're greedy!!!

    I just want to add another 20 or so to mine....

    for now.
    Yeah, well, yours is a whole lot better than mine right now! Hey, when did you start deadlifting btw? I've always wondered.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    man you're greedy!!!

    I just want to add another 20 or so to mine....

    for now.
    Yeah, well, yours is a whole lot better than mine right now! Hey, when did you start deadlifting btw? I've always wondered.

    Ummmmm I used to lift a lot in college- but I remember more power lifting than oly lifting.

    I was out of it for a while- mostly doing HIIT weight training and dancing. I stopped BB training from 2006 to probably 2012ish?

    I seriously started training again this last early Spring... I put on 100 solid lbs in a few months- but I had a good base to begin with to be honest. So that's kind of not fair LOL.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
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    Ya early gains are awesome.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
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    Bump so more people can see and learn from this.
  • j75j75
    j75j75 Posts: 854 Member
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    I've had tendon issues in both elbows and both knees, and a torn rotator cuff, so I feel your pain. All I can say is foam roll, get regular massages, and swim. You will be amazed at the results you get pertaining to your recovery, and as you continue to do them so that you can prevent injuries in the future.

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