Distance runners: How to work past 90 minutes?
Replies
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#4 - what kind of ground are you running on? try some trails for a change or pavement if you've been on concrete. It's not so forgiving (concrete)
very good advice! and if you can go on a new route, that you don't have memorized "oh, when i get to this point it's been XXX amount of minutes/miles" can help you mentally.0 -
I've done 8 mile runs. I've done a 10 mile run in 20 degree New England weather. I've done a 2 hour 10 minute run. I've played competitive basketball. I've moved grand pianos up and down flights of stairs. I know what physical exhaustion is. I know what mental exhaustion is. If you don't go into something like a 2 hour run without absolute commitment to it, it will be nearly impossible to do. The OP is coming off a rest day and a calorie excess, so it is highly unlikely that she is running out of energy at 85 minutes every time she does the run. The very likely problem that she is encountering a mental wall. Her body is not trained mentally for long distances. The OP wants to keep all of her other training the same, so it is highly unlikely that she will magically be able to run 2 hours without stopping. Many people suggest she changes her routine, but she doesn't want to do that. You're all pushing her to change, and I am telling her that 85 minutes might just be her limit with how she is training physically and mentally, and there is no shame in that. Very few people (although they all seem to be in this thread) have the ability to run a long amount of time.
I understand that people want to disagree with me and quickly jump on me for editing posts and making very blunt statements. Go ahead, there is nothing wrong with trying to change the opinion of someone else. It is a fact that very early humans didn't hunt with guns and weapons. We used to chase down our food at high noon to try and tire it out. Humans are one of the only two mammals that have the ability to sweat and cool ourselves off. We used to use that to our advantage when we would chase down caribou and other sources of food. We'd run for 4-5 hours in the 100 degree weather to get our families food. After the long run, our prey would drop dead of exhaustion and we'd be able to gather it up. If we failed, we died. That is the primal drive I am referring to. I know lots of people aren't aware of ancient human's hunting methods, but that was one of the ways we were able to survive. After agriculture developed near the Sea of Galilee, our mindsets changed. We no longer had to run to eat. Many of us lost the desire to run, since it really wasn't necessary anymore. There are people, like you guys, who love to do it for enjoyment. That is great. But there are people who try to do it and can't seem to understand why they fail. Often, they fail because they don't prepare for it and don't understand the mental drain it is to run hours and hours with no ultimate goal other than to just be done with it. Running just has no meaning for most people anymore, and without meaning, it is really tough to do.
That is all. Take what I say however you wish.0 -
Haven't read all of the the other comments but it sounds very much like you are bonking (i.e. your muscle is running out of glycogen). Try having some carb (energy gel or something) after about 30 minutes. Make sure you are drinking enough fluid as well. Try and drink before you feel thirsty as an experiment. I would also experiment - run for 85 and then walk for 10 and then start running again and see what happens.
Good luck
For 90 minutes, especially after a "cheat day," there is plenty of fuel to go from day to day eating, unless OP is trying to do 13.1 in said 90 minutes or eating 1200cals/day. Even then, fueling is probably not the issue.
So it is very likely mental with no prep. Thanks for confirming what I've been saying. The OP is not training for long distances. The OP wants to keep her other workouts the same. the OP just isn't prepared for 2 hour runs. Most people who don't train for long distance cannot handle the mental aspect of a nonstop run that long.
Makes sense to me. Everyone else, keep on hating.
Your comment about running being bad for knees/muscles is still bunk. If you asterisked and referenced "improperly training" or "too much too fast" etc, I'd be more ok with your endorsement
Regardless, my question is still "what's the point of a 90min run" without a running base to support it? Aerobic capacity lends itself to running, but not as effectively as well, running. As a triathlete duffer, I can say the same about swimming - I feel like I'm an aerobic machine while running, but put me in the pool and I'm gasping for air after 5 minutes :laugh:
OP: this thread is a trainwreck of garbage advice. Head over to the long distance runners group and ask there.0 -
As someone who will be training for her first half this year, there is a lot of great info in this thread, so thank you!
OP.....I don't yet have the experience of quite going 90 minutes, but when I was doing 10k training one thing I noticed is how important it was to keep my fluid levels up. I was good until about 8k and then I did start to notice that I was feeling off....very similar to what you described. I ended up adding some electrolyte drops to my water and that helped me a great deal. I'm not sure if that could help you, but I just thought I would throw it out there.
As some of the others have mentioned, I would also recommend a training program. There are great apps that you can get, or free programs online.
Good luck and have fun! You got this!0 -
Wow, thread exploded a bit while I was getting groceries, will come back after dinner to read through and do my best to respond, thanks to all who have contributed!0
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I've done 8 mile runs. I've done a 10 mile run in 20 degree New England weather. I've done a 2 hour 10 minute run. I've played competitive basketball. I've moved grand pianos up and down flights of stairs. I know what physical exhaustion is. I know what mental exhaustion is. If you don't go into something like a 2 hour run without absolute commitment to it, it will be nearly impossible to do. The OP is coming off a rest day and a calorie excess, so it is highly unlikely that she is running out of energy at 85 minutes every time she does the run. The very likely problem that she is encountering a mental wall. Her body is not trained mentally for long distances. The OP wants to keep all of her other training the same, so it is highly unlikely that she will magically be able to run 2 hours without stopping. Many people suggest she changes her routine, but she doesn't want to do that. You're all pushing her to change, and I am telling her that 85 minutes might just be her limit with how she is training physically and mentally, and there is no shame in that. Very few people (although they all seem to be in this thread) have the ability to run a long amount of time.
I understand that people want to disagree with me and quickly jump on me for editing posts and making very blunt statements. Go ahead, there is nothing wrong with trying to change the opinion of someone else. It is a fact that very early humans didn't hunt with guns and weapons. We used to chase down our food at high noon to try and tire it out. Humans are one of the only two mammals that have the ability to sweat and cool ourselves off. We used to use that to our advantage when we would chase down caribou and other sources of food. We'd run for 4-5 hours in the 100 degree weather to get our families food. After the long run, our prey would drop dead of exhaustion and we'd be able to gather it up. If we failed, we died. That is the primal drive I am referring to. I know lots of people aren't aware of ancient human's hunting methods, but that was one of the ways we were able to survive. After agriculture developed near the Sea of Galilee, our mindsets changed. We no longer had to run to eat. Many of us lost the desire to run, since it really wasn't necessary anymore. There are people, like you guys, who love to do it for enjoyment. That is great. But there are people who try to do it and can't seem to understand why they fail. Often, they fail because they don't prepare for it and don't understand the mental drain it is to run hours and hours with no ultimate goal other than to just be done with it. Running just has no meaning for most people anymore, and without meaning, it is really tough to do.
That is all. Take what I say however you wish.
Nobody wants to disagree with you. You've just failed to make a post that any informed person could agree with.0 -
Wow, thread exploded a bit while I was getting groceries, will come back after dinner to read through and do my best to respond, thanks to all who have contributed!
just fyi, you don't have to respond to everyone...0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
also from runnersworld
0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
also from runnersworld
Running doesn't ruin your knees. Running long distances increases risk of knee injury. Knee injures ruin knees. Short, high intensity bouts are probably very good for your knees and knee endurance. I'm not a doctor though, but I do like to get my information from sources other than memes.0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
the causes of runners knee are pretty much due to very common beginner issues, such as not wearing proper footwear, increasing the distance and the amount of hills too rapidly, not doing any strength training, and not properly stretching afterwards.
people exerting themselves is going to lead to injuries no matter what. people get carpel tunnel syndrom from typing too much, yet we still use computers.
don't come in here spouting absolute statements like "running is bad for your knees" and then claim that there is no room for disagreement here. you're not exactly keeping an open mind. and we're not saying that running isn't bad for your knees. we're just saying that it's not as bad for your knees as you would like the OP to believe.
and if running is so bad for your knees, how come you were doing all those long distance runs?
but please, call me a zealot in your next post, in an attempt to make my counterpoint seem less meaningful. it will only make your argument hold even less water.0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
the causes of runners knee are pretty much due to very common beginner issues, such as not wearing proper footwear, increasing the distance and the amount of hills too rapidly, not doing any strength training, and not properly stretching afterwards.
people exerting themselves is going to lead to injuries no matter what. people get carpel tunnel syndrom from typing too much, yet we still use computers.
don't come in here spouting absolute statements like "running is bad for your knees" and then claim that there is no room for disagreement here. you're not exactly keeping an open mind. and we're not saying that running isn't bad for your knees. we're just saying that it's not as bad for your knees as you would like the OP to believe.
and if running is so bad for your knees, how come you were doing all those long distance runs?
but please, call me a zealot in your next post, in an attempt to make my counterpoint seem less meaningful. it will only make your argument hold even less water.
I did those runs because I am about to turn 23 and in pretty good athletic shape. I needed to do it to burn calories and increase the strength of my cardio so that I could play more minute sin basketball. I also did them as "screw you" to people who called me fat and said I would never be able to run. Once I get into my 30s, **** running forever. I'll stick to lifting, sprinting, and basketball while I am young (which is rough enough on ligaments). I only made one quick reference about how long distance running is bad for the knees in my original post, I didn't even follow up on it. There is no gains to be made with constant slow pounding of your feet on a track. All it does is increase your chance of injury.0 -
Running doesn't ruin your knees. Running long distances increases risk of knee injury. Knee injures ruin knees. Short, high intensity bouts are probably very good for your knees and knee endurance. I'm not a doctor though, but I do like to get my information from sources other than memes.
you're not a doctor? Well get right outta here.
Running long distances does not increase your risk of knee injury. running improperly (wrong shoes, upping mileage or speed too fast etc) increases your risk of knee injury. These, as was said, are mostly newb missteps.
and for the lurkers, here is the article the 'meme' came from (also, dude, you don't know what the word 'meme' means either, apparently)...which includes links the studies dispelling the whole 'running is bad for you knees' myth.
http://m.runnersworld.com/fun/no-running-does-not-ruin-your-knees0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
the causes of runners knee are pretty much due to very common beginner issues, such as not wearing proper footwear, increasing the distance and the amount of hills too rapidly, not doing any strength training, and not properly stretching afterwards.
people exerting themselves is going to lead to injuries no matter what. people get carpel tunnel syndrom from typing too much, yet we still use computers.
don't come in here spouting absolute statements like "running is bad for your knees" and then claim that there is no room for disagreement here. you're not exactly keeping an open mind. and we're not saying that running isn't bad for your knees. we're just saying that it's not as bad for your knees as you would like the OP to believe.
and if running is so bad for your knees, how come you were doing all those long distance runs?
but please, call me a zealot in your next post, in an attempt to make my counterpoint seem less meaningful. it will only make your argument hold even less water.
I did those runs because I am about to turn 23 and in pretty good athletic shape. I needed to do it to burn calories and increase the strength of my cardio so that I could play more minute sin basketball. I also did them as "screw you" to people who called me fat and said I would never be able to run. Once I get into my 30s, **** running forever. I'll stick to lifting, sprinting, and basketball while I am young (which is rough enough on ligaments). I only made one quick reference about how long distance running is bad for the knees in my original post, I didn't even follow up on it. There is no gains to be made with constant slow pounding of your feet on a track. All it does is increase your chance of injury.
30 is old now?? guess i'm going to stop doing triathlons and send out for my AARP card.0 -
Running doesn't ruin your knees. Running long distances increases risk of knee injury. Knee injures ruin knees. Short, high intensity bouts are probably very good for your knees and knee endurance. I'm not a doctor though, but I do like to get my information from sources other than memes.
you're not a doctor? Well get right outta here.
Running long distances does not increase your risk of knee injury. running improperly (wrong shoes, upping mileage or speed too fast etc) increases your risk of knee injury. These, as was said, are mostly newb missteps.
and for the lurkers, here is the article the 'meme' came from (also, dude, you don't know what the word 'meme' means either, apparently)...which includes links the studies dispelling the whole 'running is bad for you knees' myth.
http://m.runnersworld.com/fun/no-running-does-not-ruin-your-knees
I grew up on with the internet. I know what a meme is. That IS a meme
"A meme (/ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena."
You guys argue everything, huh?0 -
Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
the causes of runners knee are pretty much due to very common beginner issues, such as not wearing proper footwear, increasing the distance and the amount of hills too rapidly, not doing any strength training, and not properly stretching afterwards.
people exerting themselves is going to lead to injuries no matter what. people get carpel tunnel syndrom from typing too much, yet we still use computers.
don't come in here spouting absolute statements like "running is bad for your knees" and then claim that there is no room for disagreement here. you're not exactly keeping an open mind. and we're not saying that running isn't bad for your knees. we're just saying that it's not as bad for your knees as you would like the OP to believe.
and if running is so bad for your knees, how come you were doing all those long distance runs?
but please, call me a zealot in your next post, in an attempt to make my counterpoint seem less meaningful. it will only make your argument hold even less water.
I did those runs because I am about to turn 23 and in pretty good athletic shape. I needed to do it to burn calories and increase the strength of my cardio so that I could play more minute sin basketball. I also did them as "screw you" to people who called me fat and said I would never be able to run. Once I get into my 30s, **** running forever. I'll stick to lifting, sprinting, and basketball while I am young (which is rough enough on ligaments). I only made one quick reference about how long distance running is bad for the knees in my original post, I didn't even follow up on it. There is no gains to be made with constant slow pounding of your feet on a track. All it does is increase your chance of injury.
30 is old now?? guess i'm going to stop doing triathlons and send out for my AARP card.
Nah man, you ain't old. But no way in hell I want to be running in 8 years.0 -
One more for more fuel... or go slower. You're burning mostly sugar if you're bonking like that so you need to either a) go way slower (60% MHR or so) or just fuel along the way. If I'm going for longer than 90 minutes I'll start fueling about 45 minutes in with energy chews (I like Honey Stingers Organic Energy Chews - they're 16 calories each) with 1-2 every 10 minutes or so. They give me a boost.
Lately I've been running long runs slower to get my body more accustomed to burning fat instead of sugar and I'm not fueling anything anymore up to about 100 minutes. I'll be picking up distance again as I have a 24km trail run in May so I expect to run for about 2:30-3:00 due to the elevation changes. Fuel fuel fuel.
EDIT: And really... 30 is old?! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ... you're just a baby.0 -
To the original question / post - it sounds like fuelling and/or water. I certainly found, as I ran longer and longer distances, that I would have days where my heart rate was fine, but my legs cramped up or died. For me, alternating water and Lucozade (Powerade is US equivalent) during the runs worked perfectly - but I know many people prefer gels - so see what works best.
80-90 mins is very good, by the way! I think if you are keen to extend it, it will come with time (and fuelling!)
One other thing just occurred to me - do you do shorter runs at higher speeds/intensity (say 30mins)? Mixing these in your training will also help0 -
I'm 35 and I run AND lift. I didn't realize I had to prepare for not just my knees to go, but my tendons and ligaments too :huh:0
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sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.
Ever heard of ultramarathoners? Or of a marathon for that matter? My best time was 3:30 (more than twice her 90 minutes). If I am fueled, I can run 20 miles, no problem. Used to do it every weekend. But you have to carry water and gels, or some other kind of carbohydrate to keep the furnace going.0 -
Running doesn't ruin your knees. Running long distances increases risk of knee injury. Knee injures ruin knees. Short, high intensity bouts are probably very good for your knees and knee endurance. I'm not a doctor though, but I do like to get my information from sources other than memes.
you're not a doctor? Well get right outta here.
Running long distances does not increase your risk of knee injury. running improperly (wrong shoes, upping mileage or speed too fast etc) increases your risk of knee injury. These, as was said, are mostly newb missteps.
and for the lurkers, here is the article the 'meme' came from (also, dude, you don't know what the word 'meme' means either, apparently)...which includes links the studies dispelling the whole 'running is bad for you knees' myth.
http://m.runnersworld.com/fun/no-running-does-not-ruin-your-knees
I grew up on with the internet. I know what a meme is. That IS a meme
"A meme (/ˈmiːm/; meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena."
You guys argue everything, huh?
ain't arguing baby boy, just tellin' truths.
And I posted a graphic that was found in one place.. A meme would be something like "amazingly photogenic runner guy". So, ya know
Sorry OP, I hope you got good advice, this has just become too much fun.0 -
You guys are fun. As much as I don't understand it, I respect the drive ya'll have to run. You must really love it.
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Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break.
The average person is weak, unfit and overweight.
You're using the wrong standard.0 -
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Nah man, you ain't old. But no way in hell I want to be running in 8 years.
That's alright. More room on the road for the rest of us old folks.
OP - I would advise that you listen to BrianSharp, CaptApollo, ThickMcRunFast and the rest of the awesome fit people giving you advice.
I am inclined to agree with those who are saying you need another run or two during the week and that it's probably a refueling issue. I don't, however, think you aren't dedicated or capable.
Good luck!0 -
This. So much. Precisely.0 -
Ok, so I do a long run once a week in addition to HIIT twice a week and strength training 3 times a week. My long run is always after my rest day which is also my "cheat" day so I'm usually coming off a bit of a calorie surplus going in to the run. I've been able to run for 90 minutes non stop since early November but can't seem to break past this time. Doesn't matter if I slow down and just go 5mph the whole time, which is a very easy pace for me, still can't get past 90 minutes. I feel great for the first 80-85 and am sure that this will be the week I get all the way to 2 hours and then BAM, legs and feet are TOAST. They feel like lead and just don't want to move anymore. Cardiovascularly I still feel great, I still have tons of energy, but my legs and feet are just done. So....mental block, muscle energy block, or some sort of overtraining?
If I'm being unreasonable trying to run that much while doing my other workouts I can accept that, but if there is a way to work past this without having to give up my other workouts I would love some tips or advice from those with more experience.
You are running too fast. It's really that simple. Running an Ultra is totally different then racing. I'd get thee to some books and forums.0 -
That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just, no.0 -
Seems like a dedication issue to me, because the OP seems mostly dedicated to high intensity interval training. The long runs only come on rest days, so mentally the OP is in "rest mode." I've done miles and miles and a 2+ hour run before. It is a mental drain on us people who don't train for it.
her long runs come after a rest/cheat day.
So she is coming off a rest day going into a 2 hour run while spending most of her time training for HIIT. That seems like a mental and commitment issue to me. Her mind just isn't prepared for it when she is dedicated to something else.
yeah, i think you're wrong. HIIT has it's place in any long distance training plan.
if the OP wants to increase her distance, then she has to do so little by little. increase by 10% every week.
i'd also throw in a medium distance run once a week (half of her max), and get rid of one HIIT session.
but the issue is most likely just needing to refuel on the run. we know very little about the OP and her training habits, yet you are jumping up and down and saying "she's not dedicated enough!!"
It appears that her desire isn't to run long distances, though, from how she comes across in her original post. It seems that these runs are only once a week and the other days are weight training and HIIT. That comes across to me as someone who wants to lose weight, not run longer distances. Nothing wrong with not dedicating yourself mentally to long runs if it isn't your goal.
Humans are physiologically designed to run long distances, but most of us modern, post-agriculture people have lost the desire and need to run long distances. That's all I am saying. Some people do it for fun, but those who aren't really enjoying it, will not be able to do it very long. Running 2+ hours is an absolute **** for people that don't love it.
Oh, I see. It was an absolute **** for you, so it must be for everyone. Got it. And she didn't give any indication that she doesn't love running.
Your just here to argue, clearly. You have contributed nothing to this thread.0
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