Distance runners: How to work past 90 minutes?
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BUMP to check back up on IN A YEAR! Just started on couch 2 5k ...:grumble:0
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Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break.
The average person is weak, unfit and overweight.
You're using the wrong standard.
Shoot, I run longer then that and I'm 47, only been running six months and 245 pounds at 5' 6". You have t have a strategy regrading pace and fueling, but it's just freakin moving, FFS.0 -
That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just, no.
A little late to the party, but you're still welcome!0 -
That is a long time to be running.Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
Wrong, wrong, wrong...........
There is no evidence that running is bad for your knees (barring a pre-exisiting problem) in fact several studies have suggested that the opposite is true ie runners suffer lower rates of arthritis.
To the OP - try focusing on a distance goal rather than a time.
QFT0 -
That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just, no.
A little late to the party, but you're still welcome!
For what? Misinformation and outdated junk science?0 -
SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote:
"OP: this thread is a trainwreck of garbage advice. Head over to the long distance runners group and ask there. "
Please do this. Forum land is a silly place.
to the OP: If you have a reasonable base, running 90 minutes shouldn't require much extra in the way of water or fuel, if any at all. The exception to this may be running in high heat. I wouldn't even consider water or fuel for anything less than 2 hours, and even then, it would be to practice fueling strategy. I suspect your base is at fault here. Please check out the long distance runners group and you will get some sound advice about how to proceed.
Good luck!0 -
Yep. What the "average" person these days can do is an embarrassment.Shoot, I run longer then that and I'm 47, only been running six months and 245 pounds at 5' 6". You have t have a strategy regrading pace and fueling, but it's just freakin moving, FFS.
90 minutes of jogging is something virtually everybody should be able to do, regularly.0 -
That's ridiculous. I have been a runner for 6 years and I routinely used to run up to 2 hours on my long run. And I didn't make running my life.
You are in the fraction of a percent of people who can do it. I'd say that counts as making running your life. I bet you're 100% dedicated to it, right? It seems the OP is spending most of their time and energy on HIIT.
Three times a week, speed, hills and then a long run. Sounds to me like a speed and fuel issue, maybe hydration as well. Really running for a long time Is Not That Hard. You just need a plan.0 -
Hi there, Great dedication to run for 90 minutes. Are you training for anything? I run half marathons but do not keep the long runs up like you are all the time. I found that to run more than 90 minutes when training it was about nutrition an hour or 1.5 hours before my run. So I would have a smoothie with some protien in it before the run. As well I carried some quick energy jel or bars with me and water. I usally run in the morning so used to running before eating but for that long of a run you need some carbs and protien right before the run. Try that and see if it helps.0
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Probably a couple of things going on. I assume you are looking to run a half or full marathon? Most people don't look for long runs that far unless they are so I will give you advice based on that assumption.
As you reach longer distances your body needs fuel. Gu, Chomps, any kind of energy that is easily digested in small quantities is important. I can go 90 minutes no problem, longer than that I fuel. I would recommend every 30 minutes or so up to about 3 hours. When I go beyond that I break it down to 75-100 calories every 15 minutes and split it between gels and energy drinks. My goal is about 350 calories an hour since that is about as much as your body can digest while exercising.
Your runs during the week are also a little short. Try looking at some running plans from Hal Higdon or some of the other ones easily found on the internet for free. You will see that as the long runs get up there in distance you also have longer runs during the week. It makes a big difference in helping your body to adapt to distance running.
Last thing is probably mental. Stop looking at your watch and start looking around you. When you get to the wall start picking really short goals (the next tree, street sign, driveway, etc.) and stop looking at your watch. Keep running the same route for long runs for several weeks and this will help you see the progress you are making.
Hope that helps. Best of luck with whatever your ultimate goal is!
This is solid advice. Especially the mental part. It will be easier if you up your midweek mileage, but you may also just be in a mental rut where you have worked 90 minutes up into the ultimate barrier.
And thanks for the lulz.
OP, the great thing about anyone who says "running is bad for you knees" is that you can, without fail, go ahead and ignore everything else they say.
http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/runners-knee
Knee injuries are very common among runners. More knee injuries=more damage over time. It isn't rational to instantly cut off someone because you disagree with what they say, but then, go ahead and be a zealot. There is no room for disagreement here apparently.
the causes of runners knee are pretty much due to very common beginner issues, such as not wearing proper footwear, increasing the distance and the amount of hills too rapidly, not doing any strength training, and not properly stretching afterwards.
people exerting themselves is going to lead to injuries no matter what. people get carpel tunnel syndrom from typing too much, yet we still use computers.
don't come in here spouting absolute statements like "running is bad for your knees" and then claim that there is no room for disagreement here. you're not exactly keeping an open mind. and we're not saying that running isn't bad for your knees. we're just saying that it's not as bad for your knees as you would like the OP to believe.
and if running is so bad for your knees, how come you were doing all those long distance runs?
but please, call me a zealot in your next post, in an attempt to make my counterpoint seem less meaningful. it will only make your argument hold even less water.
I did those runs because I am about to turn 23 and in pretty good athletic shape. I needed to do it to burn calories and increase the strength of my cardio so that I could play more minute sin basketball. I also did them as "screw you" to people who called me fat and said I would never be able to run. Once I get into my 30s, **** running forever. I'll stick to lifting, sprinting, and basketball while I am young (which is rough enough on ligaments). I only made one quick reference about how long distance running is bad for the knees in my original post, I didn't even follow up on it. There is no gains to be made with constant slow pounding of your feet on a track. All it does is increase your chance of injury.
Ah. The angry young man with a chip on his shoulder. It's OK sweetie. We can't all be long distance runners (apparently, though you did say earlier that it's pretty much what we evolved to do).0 -
This thread is getting derailed very, very badly over something I said. You guys attack, wait a little, then come in with a sneak attack a little later. Now, now, lets just relax here. My main point wasn't even about the OPs knees. It was about her lack of desire to run long distances. Ya'll crazy pouncing like this. I try and lighten the mood making a little joke about 30 being old. Ya'll pounce. I try to lighten the mood with a Bad Luck Brian, you come in and hit me harder than Tyson. I guess once the thread derails, all hell breaks lose. This thread is worse than some reddit subforums.
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Seems like a dedication issue to me, because the OP seems mostly dedicated to high intensity interval training. The long runs only come on rest days, so mentally the OP is in "rest mode." I've done miles and miles and a 2+ hour run before. It is a mental drain on us people who don't train for it.
her long runs come after a rest/cheat day.
So she is coming off a rest day going into a 2 hour run while spending most of her time training for HIIT. That seems like a mental and commitment issue to me. Her mind just isn't prepared for it when she is dedicated to something else.
yeah, i think you're wrong. HIIT has it's place in any long distance training plan.
if the OP wants to increase her distance, then she has to do so little by little. increase by 10% every week.
i'd also throw in a medium distance run once a week (half of her max), and get rid of one HIIT session.
but the issue is most likely just needing to refuel on the run. we know very little about the OP and her training habits, yet you are jumping up and down and saying "she's not dedicated enough!!"
It appears that her desire isn't to run long distances, though, from how she comes across in her original post. It seems that these runs are only once a week and the other days are weight training and HIIT. That comes across to me as someone who wants to lose weight, not run longer distances. Nothing wrong with not dedicating yourself mentally to long runs if it isn't your goal.
Humans are physiologically designed to run long distances, but most of us modern, post-agriculture people have lost the desire and need to run long distances. That's all I am saying. Some people do it for fun, but those who aren't really enjoying it, will not be able to do it very long. Running 2+ hours is an absolute **** for people that don't love it.
Oh, I see. It was an absolute **** for you, so it must be for everyone. Got it. And she didn't give any indication that she doesn't love running.
Your just here to argue, clearly. You have contributed nothing to this thread.
This thread is getting derailed very, very badly over something I said. You guys attack, wait a little, then come in with a sneak attack a little later. Now, now, lets just relax here. My main point wasn't even about the OPs knees. It was about her lack of desire to run long distances. Ya'll crazy pouncing like this. I try and lighten the mood making a little joke about 30 being old. Ya'll pounce. I try to lighten the mood with a Bad Luck Brian, you come in and hit me harder than Tyson. I guess once the thread derails, all hell breaks lose. This thread is worse than some reddit subforums.
so it's our fault?0 -
No, it is mine. I will make sure I don't get you guys so butthurt with my "she doesn't have the drive" post or the "bad for the knees" post again.
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No, it is mine. I will make sure I don't get you guys so butthurt with my "she doesn't have the drive" post or the "bad for the knees" post again.
The only butthurt I see in this thread is yours. Probably caused by the exertion of back pedaling. Don't forget to log it!
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sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.
Where is the research that says running is bad for you over 90 minutes? You are wrong.
There is a fueling issue at play here. At somewhere between 60-90 minutes your muscles tap into different forms of fuel within your body to continue working. If you do not replace the easy to access carbs while running your body will burn the glycogen as long as it can then a body will feel like it is hitting a wall when it starts to tap into to other energy stores....for 90 minutes I can nibble on some pretzels, eat a baby food pouch of bananas and blueberries or one could have a gu packet etc. Everyone needs to play around and find the right timing and food for them (gu makes me puke but baby food is fine) I once ran for 3.25 hours with a little bit of watered down gatorade and jolly ranchers.0 -
No, it is mine. I will make sure I don't get you guys so butthurt with my "she doesn't have the drive" post or the "bad for the knees" post again.
the thing is, you are misinformed. You are wrong. You are disseminating junk science. We are contradicting you and presenting correct information. If thats attacking, you are the one who needing a butt cushion.0 -
This thread went to hell in a hand basket.0
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No, it is mine. I will make sure I don't get you guys so butthurt with my "she doesn't have the drive" post or the "bad for the knees" post again.
the thing is, you are misinformed. You are wrong. You are disseminating junk science. We are contradicting you and presenting correct information. If thats attacking, you are the one who needing a butt cushion.
I don't mind being wrong. I said long distance running is bad for the knees. I over simplified an idea I had and didn't have time to recount what I said. That is all, Bob. You guys are gonna have to start waiting in line to plug me at the rate this is going.0 -
On second thought, the flawed reasoning means that I am A Super Hero because I can run long. SO I'm totally going with that.
*flounces cape and looks down at average people*0 -
Shoot, I run longer then that and I'm 47, only been running six months and 245 pounds at 5' 6". You have t have a strategy regrading pace and fueling, but it's just freakin moving, FFS.
Seriously. I'm 41 (almost) 5'3" and 210 lbs. I'm not exactly an elite athlete here. I went for a 3 hour trail run on Saturday. Not to say that it was all fun and that there weren't times that I wanted to flop down on the trail. And I'm really slow. But, I still did it.0 -
On second thought, the flawed reasoning means that I am A Super Hero because I can run long. SO I'm totally going with that.
*flounces cape and looks down at average people*
Gotta wear your underwear on the outside of your shorts next time you go running, or else I'm gonna completely take back everything I said!0 -
This thread went to hell in a hand basket.
Hmmmmmm, let's think REALLY SUPER HARD and see if we can't figure out why?0 -
This thread went to hell in a hand basket.
Hmmmmmm, let's think REALLY SUPER HARD and see if we can't figure out why?
I figured it out pretty easily. Keep trying, you'll get it.0 -
@ uconnwinsnc Saying that humans are the only animals that can run for that long is completely inaccurate. There is no need for any animal to run for that long, including humans. It is just that humans DECIDE to go longer. Actually that's not true either. There are plenty of dogs for example that could do that then nap and do it all over again. I have a golden retriever and she could easily do that.0
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This thread went to hell in a hand basket.
May I at least commend the offending fellow on the proper quoting of the cliche. That's rare on these boards. Also on the pompadour. You put the "pomp" in pompadour.0 -
@ uconnwinsnc Saying that humans are the only animals that can run for that long is completely inaccurate. There is no need for any animal to run for that long, including humans. It is just that humans DECIDE to go longer. Actually that's not true either. There are plenty of dogs for example that could do that then nap and do it all over again. I have a golden retriever and she could easily do that.
There is actually a theory that at one point in history humans actually used to run long distances as a way of survival - catching food.
A good article that sums up what a Doctor friend of mine (also a runner/triathlete) has talked about on the topic
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/why-runners-dont-get-knee-arthritis/?_r=00 -
This thread went to hell in a hand basket.
May I at least commend the offending fellow on the proper quoting of the cliche. That's rare on these boards. Also on the pompadour. You put the "pomp" in pompadour.
I am a borderline genius who says stupid things on internet forums because I try to over simplify my ideas. It is hard being me. Sometimes I come across as being completely wrong, other times only somewhat wrong. I keep on keeping on.0 -
@ uconnwinsnc Saying that humans are the only animals that can run for that long is completely inaccurate. There is no need for any animal to run for that long, including humans. It is just that humans DECIDE to go longer. Actually that's not true either. There are plenty of dogs for example that could do that then nap and do it all over again. I have a golden retriever and she could easily do that.
No - humans can outrun anything. It's how we used to catch our food. We need less sleep than canines (much less) and we have greater endurance than any other land mammal. While we may not beat many animals in the 100 yard dash, when it comes to the distance chase, we've got 'em all beat.0 -
@ uconnwinsnc Saying that humans are the only animals that can run for that long is completely inaccurate. There is no need for any animal to run for that long, including humans. It is just that humans DECIDE to go longer. Actually that's not true either. There are plenty of dogs for example that could do that then nap and do it all over again. I have a golden retriever and she could easily do that.
There is actually a theory that at one point in history humans actually used to run long distances as a way of survival - catching food.
A good article that sums up what a Doctor friend of mine (also a runner/triathlete) has talked about on the topic
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/why-runners-dont-get-knee-arthritis/?_r=0
Thats still used in some remaining tribes, they exhaust the animal. So yes, it was and is still done. I was thinking more on an era where you know, things would run after you and kill you. Of course, that could also be now...0 -
@ uconnwinsnc Saying that humans are the only animals that can run for that long is completely inaccurate. There is no need for any animal to run for that long, including humans. It is just that humans DECIDE to go longer. Actually that's not true either. There are plenty of dogs for example that could do that then nap and do it all over again. I have a golden retriever and she could easily do that.
No - humans can outrun anything. It's how we used to catch our food. We need less sleep than canines (much less) and we have greater endurance than any other land mammal. While we may not beat many animals in the 100 yard dash, when it comes to the distance chase, we've got 'em all beat.
yeppers!0
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