Why aren't healthier foods priced lower than junk foods?

Greytfish

:laugh:
Exactly how many people have you seen sell his/her daughter into prostitution?

ichoose2believe

Also thought i would put this up to show you my savings when i started out.

Those are awesome prices. I do find some deals (like a HUGE bag of spinach for $2.00 thats lasts forever) but I tend to find better deals at the grocery store

HappyStack

Ah, but my brain does, and it is part of my body. And, it can tell the difference between macronutrient dense foods and depleted foods.

The disconnect you're having here seems to be associated with the prevalent assumption that everyone who uses MFP just wants to lose weight or eat a diet somewhere better than patently unhealthy. Has it not occurred to you that some people might want to eat the most nutritious versions of foods, especially considering how the nutrient density of those foods has declined in the last half century? (to say nothing of the taste difefrence between canned or fresh peas and those that are flash frozen)

You may have a mental reaction to eating certain foods, i.e. revulsion because, whoa, it's McDonald's... physiologically your body responds the same to a McDonald's beef patty as it would if you made it at home with the exact same ingredients.

Nutrient density hasn't changed. I have no idea where you got that from. Agriculturally we have moved towards more "marketable" i.e. pretty, uniform products that resist damage in transit and the picking process, and produce a higher yield... these products aren't necessarily as nutritionally dense as their wilder counterparts... but we introduced agriculture to the species about 10,000 years ago, and we've foraged for wild fruits and vegetables less and less since then.

The problem you're having is conflating convenience foods with an unhealthy lifestyle.

Riddle me this, if we are - on average - consuming more and more convenience foods as the years go by, and these foods are inherently bad for you, why do we live longer lives on average?
We are more sedentary, more obese, and although the quality of our healthcare has improved over the years, more and more people are putting synthesised pills and medicinal products into their bodies than ever before.

If all of these things are inherently bad for you, why are we not dying by the billions in our youth?

Never mind about quality of life once we get older. We all know that being sedentary and therefore often being obese contributes hugely to cardiovascular diseases, osteoporosis, varying forms of arthritis, and so on.

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geebusuk

Muller light at under half price in Morrisons for six.
Yes, it DOES have a fair bit of sugar, not that is not particularly bad for most people.
Yes, 175g or so comes in at under 100 calories, which is pretty good considering how tasty they are!

opinion don't have to be based on anything which is why they are opinions. I am entitle to mine and you are entitled to yours. Stop trolling.

o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/
noun
noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions

1.a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Hence the reason it is called an opinion.

First off, I apologise - I should have used the word 'evidence' rather than fact.

Secondly I didn't say it HAD to be based on such.
In fact, if I had, I'd have likely said "is this an opinion OR is not based on evidence".
My question if anything, specifically presumes that it can be one or the other; thus asking.

However, I DO tend to hold opinions based purely on guesswork rather than evidence in considerably less esteem.
Your answer suggests that it was such.

So, I would suggest YOU stop 'trolling' - perhaps have a look in to the subjects you have these 'opinions' on, so you can at least have an 'educated' opinion, which overall is likely to see you succeed with life more .

Unknown

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Greytfish

You may have a mental reaction to eating certain foods, i.e. revulsion because, whoa, it's McDonald's... physiologically your body responds the same to a McDonald's beef patty as it would if you made it at home with the exact same ingredients.

No. And conjecturing without any basis for a belief I don't hold won't further any actual discussion.

Nutrient density hasn't changed. I have no idea where you got that from. Agriculturally we have moved towards more "marketable" i.e. pretty, uniform products that resist damage in transit and the picking process, and produce a higher yield... these products aren't necessarily as nutritionally dense as their wilder counterparts... but we introduced agriculture to the species about 10,000 years ago, and we've foraged for wild fruits and vegetables less and less since then.

They are not as nutritionally dense as the produce grown 50 years ago either. No one is talking about the hunter gathers.

The problem you're having is conflating convenience foods with an unhealthy lifestyle.

No, not at all. Convenience foods need not also be unhealthy, overprocessed, or contain fillers. If you want to buy prepackaged convenience foods on supermarket shelves, though you will find far less that is healthy.

Riddle me this, if we are - on average - consuming more and more convenience foods as the years go by, and these foods are inherently bad for you, why do we live longer lives on average?

We are more sedentary, more obese, and although the quality of our healthcare has improved over the years, more and more people are putting synthesised pills and medicinal products into their bodies than ever before.

If all of these things are inherently bad for you, why are we not dying by the billions in our youth?

Never mind about quality of life once we get older. We all know that being sedentary and therefore often being obese contributes hugely to cardiovascular diseases, osteoporosis, varying forms of arthritis, and so on.

There are so many factors you have ignored, it's mind boggling - including almost all of modern medicine. I'm not certain why you think the opposite of a healthy body is death as opposed to say, an unhealthy body with chronic dysfunction.

DamePiglet

Ah, but my brain does, and it is part of my body. And, it can tell the difference between macronutrient dense foods and depleted foods.

The disconnect you're having here seems to be associated with the prevalent assumption that everyone who uses MFP just wants to lose weight or eat a diet somewhere better than patently unhealthy. Has it not occurred to you that some people might want to eat the most nutritious versions of foods, especially considering how the nutrient density of those foods has declined in the last half century? (to say nothing of the taste difefrence between canned or fresh peas and those that are flash frozen)

Well, here's the thing...
It's called My FITNESS Pal.

Case in point:
I have a friend who weighs about 100 lbs. more than I do. She's female and an inch shorter than I am.
She cannot walk a block without getting winded. She can't lift much at all (has her husband carry in the groceries, etc.)
She eats home cooked meals about as non-GMO, fresh, etc. as anyone could be.

I can run.
I can lift.
I am at no risk for diabetes and my blood tests are all stellar.
I can touch my toes and so much more.

Who is more physically fit?



And I eat canned food, fast food and all the processed crap, along with foods that are deemed "healthier"

janeite1990

You may have a mental reaction to eating certain foods, i.e. revulsion because, whoa, it's McDonald's... physiologically your body responds the same to a McDonald's beef patty as it would if you made it at home with the exact same ingredients.

Riddle me this, if we are - on average - consuming more and more convenience foods as the years go by, and these foods are inherently bad for you, why do we live longer lives on average?
We are more sedentary, more obese, and although the quality of our healthcare has improved over the years, more and more people are putting synthesised pills and medicinal products into their bodies than ever before.

If all of these things are inherently bad for you, why are we not dying by the billions in our youth?

Not sure how serious you are being here but...
1. I would have no idea how to make a McDonald's burger at home. I don't know what they put in it, but it isn't what I put in a hamburger at home.

2. Why are we living longer? We have lots better medical treatments. When you factor in the way we deal with infant mortality, we will live longer on average even if we all eat the Oreos. We are unhealthier in our youth, even if we aren't dying by the billions.

Greytfish

Ah, but my brain does, and it is part of my body. And, it can tell the difference between macronutrient dense foods and depleted foods.

The disconnect you're having here seems to be associated with the prevalent assumption that everyone who uses MFP just wants to lose weight or eat a diet somewhere better than patently unhealthy. Has it not occurred to you that some people might want to eat the most nutritious versions of foods, especially considering how the nutrient density of those foods has declined in the last half century? (to say nothing of the taste difefrence between canned or fresh peas and those that are flash frozen)

Well, here's the thing...
It's called My FITNESS Pal.

Case in point:
I have a friend who weighs about 100 lbs. more than I do. She's female and an inch shorter than I am.
She cannot walk a block without getting winded. She can't lift much at all (has her husband carry in the groceries, etc.)
She eats home cooked meals about as non-GMO, fresh, etc. as anyone could be.

I can run.
I can lift.
I am at no risk for diabetes and my blood tests are all stellar.
I can touch my toes and so much more.

Who is more physically fit?



And I eat canned food, fast food and all the processed crap, along with foods that are deemed "healthier"

Was anyone arguing that you weren't more fit? That does not, by necessity mean you are healthier than she is or vice versa, given the role that genetics plays. It does mean you're probably making more of an effort to toward fitness.

My point was that so much of the focus seems to be on overweight sedentary people trying to get to a healthy weight and basic fitness, that discussions completely ignore the fact that not everyone is starting at that point. Some people have made changes and are trying to maintain. Some people are pursuing health/fitness and starting from a place of healthy body composition. Some people are pursuing goals beyond that. Yet, discussions here get sidetracked as if health and fitness were a single issue of portion control.

And, I would have edited, but I liked that graphic.

HappyStack

There are so many factors you have ignored, it's mind boggling - including almost all of modern medicine. I'm not certain why you think the opposite of a healthy body is death as opposed to say, an unhealthy body with chronic dysfunction.

I left it out for a reason.

We're talking about food. Medical science doesn't undo the supposed damages caused by all the "bad" foods we have these days. And you can't distinguish between nutrition or being sedentary (and overweight as a result) as a cause for chronic illness.

I also said you "may" have that reaction, not that you do. What, exactly - and provide evidence please - is your problem with pre-prepared food? where do you get the idea that food is less nutritionally dense nowadays?

DamePiglet

Was anyone arguing that you weren't more fit? That does not, by necessity mean you are healthier than she is or vice versa, given the role that genetics plays. It does mean you're probably making more of an effort to toward fitness.

My point was that so much of the focus seems to be on overweight sedentary people trying to get to a healthy weight and basic fitness, that discussions completely ignore the fact that not everyone is starting at that point. Some people have made changes and are trying to maintain. Some people are pursuing health/fitness and starting from a place of healthy body composition. Some people are pursuing goals beyond that. Yet, discussions here get sidetracked as if health and fitness were a single issue of portion control.

Here's MY point.

The site is called MY *FITNESS* PAL!
I KNOW that not everyone is here at the starting point.
*I'm* not even here at the starting point!

But this isn't My HEALTHFOOD Pal.
One doesn't have to "eat clean" to be fit.

HappyStack

Not sure how serious you are being here but...
1. I would have no idea how to make a McDonald's burger at home. I don't know what they put in it, but it isn't what I put in a hamburger at home.

2. Why are we living longer? We have lots better medical treatments. When you factor in the way we deal with infant mortality, we will live longer on average even if we all eat the Oreos. We are unhealthier in our youth, even if we aren't dying by the billions.

Half serious.

Here you go: http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/whatmakesmcdonalds/questions/food/burgers/whats-in-a-mcdonalds-beef-burger-and-how-is-it-made.html

Unhealthier in our youth due to nutritional habits and advancements, or due to the fact we move much less? there is no answer to this question... but conventional wisdom will tell you that a physically active lifestyle does more for good health than being pedantic about what you eat.

Greytfish

Was anyone arguing that you weren't more fit? That does not, by necessity mean you are healthier than she is or vice versa, given the role that genetics plays. It does mean you're probably making more of an effort to toward fitness.

My point was that so much of the focus seems to be on overweight sedentary people trying to get to a healthy weight and basic fitness, that discussions completely ignore the fact that not everyone is starting at that point. Some people have made changes and are trying to maintain. Some people are pursuing health/fitness and starting from a place of healthy body composition. Some people are pursuing goals beyond that. Yet, discussions here get sidetracked as if health and fitness were a single issue of portion control.

Here's MY point.

The site is called MY *FITNESS* PAL!
I KNOW that not everyone is here at the starting point.
*I'm* not even here at the starting point!

But this isn't My HEALTHFOOD Pal.
One doesn't have to "eat clean" to be fit.

Fitness is a continuum.

geebusuk

From what I've seen, there are much stronger correlations between healthiness and fitness than healthiness and eating foods such people deem 'good'.

So, as per the recent lose weight/become healthier on McDonalds posts go to show, if people are going to focus on something, it should probably be becoming fitter and less obese, rather than whether their tomatoes were grown with manure from a drove fed purely on organically grown fair-trade artichokes imported from the Sudan.

And yes on the fitness thing - some year ago I did a paragliding day. A couple there had a go at me for using a gym generally - when there's a great outdoors, healthy (sic) food and so on. Despite my training being particularly unstructured in those days, I was the only one to be able to run fast enough to get a decent bit of air time to fly across the valley. Ok, it was only 11 seconds - but that was better than the hippy-people that ended up stumbling down a hill with the wing stopping them from dying, but not actually leaving the ground.

Greytfish

There are so many factors you have ignored, it's mind boggling - including almost all of modern medicine. I'm not certain why you think the opposite of a healthy body is death as opposed to say, an unhealthy body with chronic dysfunction.

I left it out for a reason.

We're talking about food. Medical science doesn't undo the supposed damages caused by all the "bad" foods we have these days. And you can't distinguish between nutrition or being sedentary (and overweight as a result) as a cause for chronic illness.

I also said you "may" have that reaction, not that you do. What, exactly - and provide evidence please - is your problem with pre-prepared food? where do you get the idea that food is less nutritionally dense nowadays?

Medical science doesn't undo the damage? :laugh: That will come as quite a shock to people who have had cardiac catheterizations. People who have eaten their way to blocked arteries die at far lower rates than previously.

Again, I did not say I have a "problem" with pre-prepared food. Almost everything I eat is prepared ahead of time.

DamePiglet

Was anyone arguing that you weren't more fit? That does not, by necessity mean you are healthier than she is or vice versa, given the role that genetics plays. It does mean you're probably making more of an effort to toward fitness.

My point was that so much of the focus seems to be on overweight sedentary people trying to get to a healthy weight and basic fitness, that discussions completely ignore the fact that not everyone is starting at that point. Some people have made changes and are trying to maintain. Some people are pursuing health/fitness and starting from a place of healthy body composition. Some people are pursuing goals beyond that. Yet, discussions here get sidetracked as if health and fitness were a single issue of portion control.

Here's MY point.

The site is called MY *FITNESS* PAL!
I KNOW that not everyone is here at the starting point.
*I'm* not even here at the starting point!

But this isn't My HEALTHFOOD Pal.
One doesn't have to "eat clean" to be fit.

Fitness is a continuum.

No, not really.
Fitness is subjective.

YOUR idea of fitness is to "eat clean"

Mine is not and will never be.
"eating clean" CAN be a component, but doesn't have to be.

funkim55

You are so right. Fresh fruits and vegetables cost more than junk food. This is the reason America is overweight!!! Please post a copy of your letter; hopefully, we can all begin support groups in our area. Good Luck!!!

HappyStack

Medical science doesn't undo the damage? :laugh: That will come as quite a shock to people who have had cardiac catheterizations. People who have eaten their way to blocked arteries die at far lower rates than previously.

Again, I did not say I have a "problem" with pre-prepared food. Almost everything I eat is prepared ahead of time.

Heart caths are largely diagnostic, you're talking about atherosclerosis which is treated with a pill and/or losing weight and exercising (or as a last resort - angioplasty - which widens the artery and doesn't remove the plaque), but aside from that... temporarily fix, or undo? people who undergo these procedures still have underlying problems.

Keep on dancing around the questions. You have no proof of anything you're saying with regards to convenience foods being unhealthy.

And it matters, in case you're wondering, because people reading your responses who genuinely can't afford to lose weight and become healthier by not relying on convenience foods might get the idea that it's hopeless to even try. It isn't. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Greytfish

You miss the point that we can medically detect and medically treat conditions that once were silent killers. By no means can you live any way you like and rely on medical science to keep you alive indefinitely, but there are a whole lot of people alive today in spite of their poor diet and lifestyle.

Again, the discussion topic is affordability of "junk" food versus healthier foods. If you don't understand that flash frozen vegetables are more nutritious than those in a can, I can't help you.

Where, in comparing the relative merits of different foods do you think I argued that people cannot get healthier on anything but the highest quality foods? Nowhere.

People reading my responses or any others will generally take from them what reinforces their own desires and motivations. If they want to believe that they can only afford junk food, they will. If they want to believ junk food = convenience food, they will.

Plenty of people here manage to eat healthier foods affordably.

Greytfish

Was anyone arguing that you weren't more fit? That does not, by necessity mean you are healthier than she is or vice versa, given the role that genetics plays. It does mean you're probably making more of an effort to toward fitness.

My point was that so much of the focus seems to be on overweight sedentary people trying to get to a healthy weight and basic fitness, that discussions completely ignore the fact that not everyone is starting at that point. Some people have made changes and are trying to maintain. Some people are pursuing health/fitness and starting from a place of healthy body composition. Some people are pursuing goals beyond that. Yet, discussions here get sidetracked as if health and fitness were a single issue of portion control.

Here's MY point.

The site is called MY *FITNESS* PAL!
I KNOW that not everyone is here at the starting point.
*I'm* not even here at the starting point!

But this isn't My HEALTHFOOD Pal.
One doesn't have to "eat clean" to be fit.

Fitness is a continuum.

No, not really.
Fitness is subjective.

YOUR idea of fitness is to "eat clean"

Mine is not and will never be.
"eating clean" CAN be a component, but doesn't have to be.

Again, you're making arguments based on false assumptions.

Fitness is a continuum. Genetics, lifestyle, and diet as well as injuries and illnesses place people at different places on the continuum, but fitness is a lifelong journey, not a destination.

just_Jennie1

What choices do you lack?

I don't lack any, but that's because I cook from scratch. However, if I wanted ten years ago to pick up a BBQ sauce made with cane sugars and no corn syrup, I could do so easily. We have since spent millions of taxpayer dollars subsidizing corn, corn syrup, and HFCS so that of the 47 brands I checked in three stores and two states (6 stores total, as they have different stock and markets) only one did not contain corn syrup.

There is nothing wrong with canned foods.

The problem is not keeping track of what you're eating and how much of it you're eating.

I can eat bolognese in a can every day of the week for cheap and still lose weight and get healthy.

THE problem?

There are plenty of things wrong with canned foods.

Name one thing that is wrong with canned vegetables.

Nicolee_2014

I really need to go to a growers market but usually just end up going to the big supermarkets to buy crappy half dead fruit n veg.

HappyStack

Again, the discussion topic is affordability of "junk" food versus healthier foods. If you don't understand that flash frozen vegetables are more nutritious than those in a can, I can't help you.

Nutritious in what sense?

Higher in carbs? lower in fat? higher in protein? quality of those macros?

Micronutrients, like vitamin A, calcium, iron, etc?

Greytfish

Name one thing that is wrong with canned vegetables.

They lose significant vitamins and minerals in the harvesting and heat canning process.

Greytfish

I really need to go to a growers market but usually just end up going to the big supermarkets to buy crappy half dead fruit n veg.

If you shop for what's on sale or in season, you can save money by either eating what's in season or buying it when it's more affordable and freezing it for later use. It works better with some items than others, but you really can save money without even changing where you shop.

HappyStack

That isn't just attributable to the canning process.

It's ANY heating process.

DamePiglet

Again, you're making arguments based on false assumptions.

Fitness is a continuum. Genetics, lifestyle, and diet as well as injuries and illnesses place people at different places on the continuum, but fitness is a lifelong journey, not a destination.

No, you're making arguments based on your opinion or motivational posters or something.

It's not a "journey".
It's not a "continuum"

It's a choice.

Certainly, illnesses happen, people have food intolerances, etc.
But people who don't have "pre-existing conditions" absolutely DO NOT NEED to eat "clean" to achieve and sustain physical fitness.

Greytfish

That isn't just attributable to the canning process.

It's ANY heating process.

Again, I didn't assert that heating was only in the canning process. Canned peas, if heated by the consumer prior to eating, have undergone a minimum of three heating processes - over and above heat they have expereinced during transport and storage. All of that is on top of the fact that they have the longest lag time between being picked and reaching the consumer.

Again, if you go back an read, what I asserted was that flash frozen vegetables are overall more nutritious than fresh vegetables, and fresh vegetables are more nutritious than canned vegetables. It doesn't mean any of them are going to kill you, assuming you don't have a rare pea allergy.

Again, you're making arguments based on false assumptions.

Fitness is a continuum. Genetics, lifestyle, and diet as well as injuries and illnesses place people at different places on the continuum, but fitness is a lifelong journey, not a destination.

No, you're making arguments based on your opinion or motivational posters or something.

It's not a "journey".
It's not a "continuum"

It's a choice.

Certainly, illnesses happen, people have food intolerances, etc.
But people who don't have "pre-existing conditions" absolutely DO NOT NEED to eat "clean" to achieve and sustain physical fitness.

You'll notice you're the only one referring to "clean eating."

Please, not the pre-existing tangent again. It has nothing to do with the relative quality of junk foods and healthier foods.

HappyStack

I must be vitamin deficient because I reheat leftovers.




http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-2e.shtml

Honestly, you should be getting far more than your RDA of all vitamins and minerals through a varied diet. Especially if your other foods are fortified with water-soluble heat-sensitive vitamins and minerals (like cereals, fortified with folate [folic acid], or milk).