Build Strength Prior to Beginning to Lift Weights?
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Since, I already know I'm depending on more strength on my right side (particularly in my upper body), what would you propose, exercise-wise, to even me out?
Dumbbells, as opposed (or perhaps in addition to?) a barbell. Using the same weight in each hand will force both sides to do the same amount of work. Realistically, you'll likely always be a little stronger on one side than the other, but using dumbbells should help balance things out.0 -
Since, I already know I'm depending on more strength on my right side (particularly in my upper body), what would you propose, exercise-wise, to even me out?
Dumbbells, as opposed (or perhaps in addition to?) a barbell. Using the same weight in each hand will force both sides to do the same amount of work. Realistically, you'll likely always be a little stronger on one side than the other, but using dumbbells should help balance things out.
Okey dokey. That makes total sense. Thanks!!!0 -
Since, I already know I'm depending on more strength on my right side (particularly in my upper body), what would you propose, exercise-wise, to even me out?
Since I haven't seen you lift, I can't really give direct advice. If it really is just a "one side is stronger" then I'd include some single leg squats. If the imbalance isn't too pronounced, then yes, it is time to start working on a bar. During that time, we're working on the imbalance, so I would urge you to go slow, use good form, and only add weight when you demonstrate you are able to do so safely.
As a trainer, the goal is to teach you enough that you don't need a trainer.0 -
File a complaint with the corporate headquarters of your gym.0
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So, my trainer (at a commercial gym) is dead set against the idea of me doing compound lifts with a barbell, yet...although, I've already done them. She claims that I need to work on form using kettlebell routines and build initial strength that way. Now, I know that I'm coming from a relatively sedentary state and that I am really wimpy, but do you build up to compound lifts, or do you use compound lifts to gain strength?
Thoughts, please?
i don't know why she would assume kettle bells would be any safer then a barbell. if anything it would take more strength and cordination to lift the same weight.0 -
The weak point for anyone new to lifting is going to be their ligaments and tendons. They just don't recover as quick as your muscles being as they're not as vascular, therefore, they don't heal/gain strength as quickly as your muscles do. The solution to this is to start out slow, with good form, with a lower weight, and higher reps (yes, the opposite of what is preached here). Once you're systems are "used" to this and you've built up your ligament and tendon strength, then you can proceed on to a higher weight and lower reps.
So that said, starting with a kettlebell routine first makes absolutely no sense. As a trainer, I can not tell you how irritated I get by these stories of crappy trainers who are clueless. There are good trainers out there, and the majority who suck make us all look bad.
How do you know when you've built up your ligament and tendon strength?
For beginners, it is commonly accepted that it takes 4-6 weeks for tendons and ligaments to fully adapt to a new routine.0 -
Your trainer sounds like an idiot.0
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That said, the way most trainers get to know your imbalances is to watch you move. Most of us have fixed exercises/movements we ask the trainee to perform (bodyweight squat is one). With pictures (or video) from the front and the side, the trainer can sit down with the trainee and show him/her what is happening and what we can do to fix it. Fixing imbalances and building muscular endurance are always task one for me. But I'm clear with the client why we're doing what we are doing and the go forward plan.
Squat imbalances are all over the place (hip flexor, adductor, abductor, glutes, hamstrings, quads). Kettlebells can be an effective way to work on muscle imbalances. Getting under a bar can be effective, depending on the imbalances. Sometimes, lowering the weight only serves to allow you to learn the lift in a poor movement pattern, which could lead to injury later.
Ask your trainer what exactly they are using the training to address. If they can't convince you that there are imbalances they're working through (because building strength to prepare for strength training is meaningless), then either they are following the one size fits all gym approach, don't know what the heck they are doing, or they are poor communicators. In any case, they aren't the trainer for you.
but you still have a different (albiet slight) technique under the bar- doing KB squats/DL's should be a strength training supplement while she gets the barbell work in.
The trainer is dodging- I'm not even inclined to say for more money- because it's a pre-payed set session of 5. She's not doing herself any sales favors- if she was smarter she'd be doing what the client requested- so the client might be more inclined to purcahse more sessions. Instead she's forcing stupid very specific crap for no particular reason (no particular VALID reason) on someone who clearly doesn't want it
I think she's honestly just a super shi55y trainer. I don't' care what cert's she has. She sounds like she's retarded and has no idea how to work with people and just insists that they do things her way.
Yes. *ding, ding, ding*
After telling her I refuse to get on an elliptical or a stairmaster, she tried to put me on one, then the other, last night. I kept saying, "alternative to ____?" Finally, we got to a treadmill and rowing machine, which I actually am fine with doing if I MUST do cardio. She also told me I should come in for the 4th cardio session in between strength training, and I told her that the only way I'd do an extra cardio is if I was already strength training that day.
She's young and not listening.
if her cardio repertoire is limited to cardio machines, she's a poor trainner indeed. if i was paying for a trainner and she put me on any kinda machine, i'd want a refund.0 -
Since, I already know I'm depending on more strength on my right side (particularly in my upper body), what would you propose, exercise-wise, to even me out?
Since I haven't seen you lift, I can't really give direct advice. If it really is just a "one side is stronger" then I'd include some single leg squats. If the imbalance isn't too pronounced, then yes, it is time to start working on a bar. During that time, we're working on the imbalance, so I would urge you to go slow, use good form, and only add weight when you demonstrate you are able to do so safely.
As a trainer, the goal is to teach you enough that you don't need a trainer.
Agreed. I don't need anyone to hold my hand; I need to learn a skillset.0 -
So, my trainer (at a commercial gym) is dead set against the idea of me doing compound lifts with a barbell, yet...although, I've already done them. She claims that I need to work on form using kettlebell routines and build initial strength that way. Now, I know that I'm coming from a relatively sedentary state and that I am really wimpy, but do you build up to compound lifts, or do you use compound lifts to gain strength?
Thoughts, please?
i don't know why she would assume kettle bells would be any safer then a barbell. if anything it would take more strength and cordination to lift the same weight.
I'm not lifting really heavy, though...which is frustrating in itself, because I KNOW I can squat and deadlift more. I DO need a standard bar for OHP's and BP's, though. Pitiful arms...Lol!0 -
The weak point for anyone new to lifting is going to be their ligaments and tendons. They just don't recover as quick as your muscles being as they're not as vascular, therefore, they don't heal/gain strength as quickly as your muscles do. The solution to this is to start out slow, with good form, with a lower weight, and higher reps (yes, the opposite of what is preached here). Once you're systems are "used" to this and you've built up your ligament and tendon strength, then you can proceed on to a higher weight and lower reps.
So that said, starting with a kettlebell routine first makes absolutely no sense. As a trainer, I can not tell you how irritated I get by these stories of crappy trainers who are clueless. There are good trainers out there, and the majority who suck make us all look bad.
How do you know when you've built up your ligament and tendon strength?
For beginners, it is commonly accepted that it takes 4-6 weeks for tendons and ligaments to fully adapt to a new routine.
Ok, this gives me an actual time frame. That helps. Thank you!0 -
That said, the way most trainers get to know your imbalances is to watch you move. Most of us have fixed exercises/movements we ask the trainee to perform (bodyweight squat is one). With pictures (or video) from the front and the side, the trainer can sit down with the trainee and show him/her what is happening and what we can do to fix it. Fixing imbalances and building muscular endurance are always task one for me. But I'm clear with the client why we're doing what we are doing and the go forward plan.
Squat imbalances are all over the place (hip flexor, adductor, abductor, glutes, hamstrings, quads). Kettlebells can be an effective way to work on muscle imbalances. Getting under a bar can be effective, depending on the imbalances. Sometimes, lowering the weight only serves to allow you to learn the lift in a poor movement pattern, which could lead to injury later.
Ask your trainer what exactly they are using the training to address. If they can't convince you that there are imbalances they're working through (because building strength to prepare for strength training is meaningless), then either they are following the one size fits all gym approach, don't know what the heck they are doing, or they are poor communicators. In any case, they aren't the trainer for you.
but you still have a different (albiet slight) technique under the bar- doing KB squats/DL's should be a strength training supplement while she gets the barbell work in.
The trainer is dodging- I'm not even inclined to say for more money- because it's a pre-payed set session of 5. She's not doing herself any sales favors- if she was smarter she'd be doing what the client requested- so the client might be more inclined to purcahse more sessions. Instead she's forcing stupid very specific crap for no particular reason (no particular VALID reason) on someone who clearly doesn't want it
I think she's honestly just a super shi55y trainer. I don't' care what cert's she has. She sounds like she's retarded and has no idea how to work with people and just insists that they do things her way.
Yes. *ding, ding, ding*
After telling her I refuse to get on an elliptical or a stairmaster, she tried to put me on one, then the other, last night. I kept saying, "alternative to ____?" Finally, we got to a treadmill and rowing machine, which I actually am fine with doing if I MUST do cardio. She also told me I should come in for the 4th cardio session in between strength training, and I told her that the only way I'd do an extra cardio is if I was already strength training that day.
She's young and not listening.
if her cardio repertoire is limited to cardio machines, she's a poor trainner indeed. if i was paying for a trainner and she put me on any kinda machine, i'd want a refund.
She has me do Russian twists, ball slams, and farmer's walks, too. I don't mind those things. I only brought up machines, because I despise them so much and told her so, multiple times.0 -
Yeah, I'm not THAT weak. I walk a lot, so my core isn't horrible, and my legs are significantly stronger than my arms and not just because I'm a female. Push ups, OHP's, bench presses, that sort of thing tend to be more difficult for me.
I still use JUST a bar- and I'm significantly stronger than you. If we had a PVC pipe (I may invest in one for our gym- I think it would be appreciated there)- I would use it as well- sometimes going through the motions with no weight is very helpful.She has me do Russian twists, ball slams, and farmer's walks, too. I don't mind those things. I only brought up machines, because I despise them so much and told her so, multiple times.
well. those are definitely high lung capcity things- but I would never call them cardio. like. ever.
I mean doing russian twists is abs- and ball slams are a warm up-anda great "mid" grade thing- whole body- gets the heart rate up I'd never call them a full cardio work out.
it's cardio- but not like go do 20 minutes of cardio cardio.0 -
Anyway, thanks everyone, for your input. I have a general consensus confirming how to proceed from here. I'll be back when I have more questions, as I'm sure there will be more questions. :bigsmile:0
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Yeah, I'm not THAT weak. I walk a lot, so my core isn't horrible, and my legs are significantly stronger than my arms and not just because I'm a female. Push ups, OHP's, bench presses, that sort of thing tend to be more difficult for me.
I still use JUST a bar- and I'm significantly stronger than you. If we had a PVC pipe (I may invest in one for our gym- I think it would be appreciated there)- I would use it as well- sometimes going through the motions with no weight is very helpful.She has me do Russian twists, ball slams, and farmer's walks, too. I don't mind those things. I only brought up machines, because I despise them so much and told her so, multiple times.
well. those are definitely high lung capcity things- but I would never call them cardio. like. ever.
I mean doing russian twists is abs- and ball slams are a warm up-anda great "mid" grade thing- whole body- gets the heart rate up I'd never call them a full cardio work out.
it's cardio- but not like go do 20 minutes of cardio cardio.
Ok, so I shouldn't feel bad about my inability to effectively lift the Oly bar? haha! I think I need to decrease the weight (standard bar) there, and be patient with myself.
As for cardio, she views the combo of it all it as a HIIT circuit.0 -
Your PT is worried you'll love lifting so much and realise you don't need her0
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Your PT is worried you'll love lifting so much and realise you don't need her
I think you're right. :bigsmile:0 -
Ok, so I shouldn't feel bad about my inability to effectively lift the Oly bar? haha! I think I need to decrease the weight (standard bar) there, and be patient with myself.
As for cardio, she views the combo of it all it as a HIIT circuit.
nope technique is technique- and has nothign to do with weight. It's good to have a day where you go in and do technique stuff. No shame at all.
HIIT itself is a form of short cardio... it doesn't matter what you do- any combination of exercises with little to no rest = cardio work. the exercises themselves are meaningless.
Although I wouldn't lump farmers walks in there so much- that would be one of the "down" exercises (I have UP and DOWN's in my HIIT training- if I'm doing stuff like Burpees- Box Jumps KB swings and switch lunges- I usually will add "down" things- between them- or alternate or whatever- like- any of the stuff you added. It's going to keep working you- but it's not a steady stream of I CAN"T BREATH AND I"M GOING GOING GOING GOING... but that's my personal preferance)0 -
Your trainer is right in the sense that you do need to build up strength and learn the correct form before starting to lift using a barbell. Given that an Olympic barbell weighs 20 Kg, I know smaller ones are available but not very common in gyms now, a lot of people starting from a sedentary state would struggle to press the bar on its own.
There does seem to be an obsession with having to lift barbells at the moment and that its the only way to gain strength and that's simply not true.
Most exercises done with a bar can be done using dumbbells and for the beginner would be much safer than using a bar also you can be much more creative using dumbbells as a slight change of angle or a rotation can change the mechanics of an exercise entirely.
Barbells are a blunt instrument designed to gain raw power and beginners should approach them with caution.
A good dumbbell program for upper body and only using a bar for squats and deadlifts would be a good trainers recommendation for a sedentary person.
My advice would be to ask for a dumbbell workout routine and start from there, barbell lifting will come in time.
I'm not a qualified trainer but I have had around 10 years experience of lifting weights and the above is just my humble opinion.0
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