what to do about kid failing

RLDeShazo

Wow. What a sad thread full of excuses. Everyone is suddenly jumping in on this kid and labeling lazy, or with some mental disorder because he is failing algebra.

Bs.

There is a tutor and an adult and the homework isn't being checked? Well, two people are failing.

I taught remedial math 20 years ago to students that had failed in the year.
The basic issue was that they had not learned the basics, we usually had to go back and rebuild on a lot of stuff that wasn't learned.

Focus on the work and just do it over and over again. Every damn day.
If the parent or the tutor can't identify the exact weaknesses within the subject area, there is the weakness not some internet diagnosis of ADHD.

:flowerforyou:

CJisinShape

This is what I think. I'm guessing from all the posts that you've figured out certain math subjects are harder than others. That said, there was a study done regarding graduation rates, and they found students were two hundred percent more likely to graduate if they passed high school algebra. It is a class than can make or break a person's confidence in their academic abilities. In addition, math is typically taught in a building spiral in elementary, touching on topics over and over in increasing difficulty, whereas in high school, it is taught linearly by broad subjects and to mastery in one semester. That's mumbo jumbo for they expect a student to learn a whole lot about one topic (algebra), and do it very well in a short amount of time. They have to "get it" from the first lesson, or they will be behind by the second, and so forth, because they are literally going through centuries of math discoveries in a matter of months. If there was any deficiency earlier, in arithmetic, if he isn't able to instantly recall basic math facts (addition, subtraction, multiplication), or has trouble multiplying, dividing or adding fractions, or doing square roots, he's going to have a hard time with algebra. It's one of those subjects that really requires a lot of prior proficiency to do well in. So what do you do? Sit with him and the tutor, do a wide sample of problems and see where the disconnect is. Is it remembering which theorem to use? Is it simple arithmetic problems? Is he having problem going beyond a few steps in the problem (some of those require many, many steps). This is a subject that requires encouragement, IMO. The class is kicking his butt, and he needs a coach in the corner helping him to get back in the ring. Just my two cents.

neandermagnon

Wow. What a sad thread full of excuses. Everyone is suddenly jumping in on this kid and labeling lazy, or with some mental disorder because he is failing algebra.

suggesting something as a possibility isn't the same as diagnosing something over the internet. As a kid who was labelled as lazy when I was actually working my butt off dealing with a disability that I didn't understand and no-one knew I had, I think it's something that should *always* be considered in a kid who's doing well in some areas of the curriculum but struggling in certain specific areas. Doesn't mean it's always the case, but it sometimes is, and if it is then it's that child's right to know about it, be understood and get what support they need to learn to work around it. The disability doesn't go away, but you do learn how to achieve in spite of it.

I'm vehemently against the attitude e.g. "you're dyslexic, you can't read, so let's find someone to read for you" kind of dealing with kids who have these issues... absolutely dyslexic kids can learn to read, and kids with all these disabilities can achieve in spite of them. But it necessitates the right approach to studying and the right teaching styles. A lot of the dyslexia support I got (eventually) entailed learning strategies for learning so that I was working with my brain, rather than being expected to do things the same way as everyone else, which I couldn't do, due to how my brain processes stuff.

I agree with you re a lot of kids who are struggling it's because they've missed something basic and you have to backtrack. But that does not mean that suggesting someone consider the possibility of a learning disability when their kid is struggling is a bad thing to do.

mank32

Maye he's just not good at algebra. I completely and totally suck at math. ...I can't even do simple math in my head! :blushing:

+1. my mother was a math teacher, i got super grades in the other classes (with my eyes closed), and i *barely* passed HS algebra.

i didn't care! i was lazy (duh: almost never studied and tried to get away with not doing HW too), and i knew my average was going to be high enough from my other classes that even if i completely tanked in math i'd still have good grades. i'm the kind of generally bright, marginally talented, ultimately hubristic person who is accustomed to performing well at things without much effort and doesn't like to do things that are difficult for me or at which i suck. math is that: i don't understand it, it's difficult for me, and i perform poorly at it. that's frustrating and embarassing. therefore, i don't want to do it, and in HS i (immaturely and hubristically) preferred to just completely blow off my maths and end up with a mid-low 'B' average--rather than sweat and strain (and, i thought, look foolish) over something that is unfun for an 'A'. so this makes complete sense to me.

not sure if this kid is in the same boat, but if so: i would look him straight in the eye and say, "You are going to have to get used to doing things you don't like. Sooner is better than later."

mank32

Geometry was a breeze; algebra was a nightmare.

my math teacher mother saw it every year: the kids that did well in algebra struggled with geometry, and the kids that were struggling all year with algebra suddenly became geniuses during the geo section. that was me. :embarassed:

WeepingAngel81

I feel for him. I failed so bad. My dad was always so hard on me about it as well. He never understood what I didn't get about math. I even paid for my own tutors when it came time for taking college exams. My parents grounded me, yelled at me, made me bring home weekly progress reports. All of those things made it even harder on me. It really didn't matter what they would do, I just didn't (and still don't) understand math.
Talk to his teacher let him/her know they struggles. Tell the teacher what you are doing at home to help him and ask what they suggest.

My_Own_Worst_Enemy

My stepson is 17 and taking algebra, he is absolutely failing miserably his highest grade was a 76 and that was a friggin homework grade. He came to live with us in August of last year and didn't have good influences or study habits where he was, he does ok in his other classes. He just can't seem to get his crap together in this algebra class, I have him tutoring Saturdays and staying after Mondays. I have been nice, mean, strict, lenient and now I feel like I just don't care anymore because I feel like he isn't TRULY putting in the effort. He turns in all of his assignments but he even fails the homework, I asked how he failed homework since he had time to check his answers to make sure he was doing it right. He acted like he didn't know how to check his answers which I know he does because I showed him how and by now should be friggin common sense. Also he can probably plug any problem into search on his tablet and get a step by step answer, he is just lazy and not using his brain. I am not sure what he hopes to accomplish by failing this class considering his butt is going to go to summer school or get held back. Either way he HAS to pass this class and I have told him this. I am at my wits end, what do I do? I've kinda just stopped caring because he's gotta grow up sometime and realize some things just don't go away. Part of me wants to just let this happen and him just learn the hard way. But does anyone have any ideas before I do this or is it just better to let him learn this life lesson on his own?

Whos helping him and checking the homework?

Hes not failing. YOU ARE

ETA: Most reasonable parents that put an effort toward their kids schooling will go over their homework WITH them (not do it for them) and help check to ensure they are understanding whats going on and help check to make sure the answers are right. It doesnt do anyone good if they come home, think they are doing it right, then go back to school with everything done completely wrong.

So if you arent willing to put forth an effort why should the kid? You are the adult and clearly not setting an example. And by quitting? What kind of message does that send? Im glad you arent my parent.

Send the kid to my house, Ill help him.

Lol I was waiting for you, knew you would show up and here you are. Wow way to be an Ahole about it with not a lot of information to work with you sure just filled it right in didn't you. I was going to write a whole big thing how I have tried everything including ALL of that, I also don't believe in nursing 17 year olds from my teet like you apparently do. That I am 30 have no kids of my own to have had any previous experience with and work 7 days a week. But you aren't worth it because you are prejudging based on what you think you know. So your advice FAILED. God some people sheesh.......

You were waiting for me? LOL. Id say im flattered, but I have no idea who you are, but clearly you know all about me. I only have 1 child in attending college (was HS Class President), and the other starts college next fall (Takes AP Math Classes and Tutors other kids). And I did all that without asking people on message boards for assistance. Its perfectly clear you have no clue when it comes to this sort of thing. You said yourself the kid has only been with you a short time and his previous habits werent good (because thats his fault). You expect him to just eat a bowl of lucky charms at your house and be a completely different person??? And just because hes 17 means its all on him??? LMAO It takes EFFORT. Just not from him but from you too. Call me an Ahole im good with that, but one thing ill never be is a quitter; especially when it comes to my childrens education and future. Its a good thing you dont have kids and I hope you never do. You obviously dont understand the sacrifices it takes to raise another human being. I dont see single mothers complain half as much as you. 0 / 10 Would not bang and just break up with the kids father.

:Cauliflower For You:

reality_girl

Maybe you should spend less time on mfp and more time helpung your stepson?

mamma_nee

When I ask him how he feels like he is doing or did on a quiz or test, he ALWAYS says he feels like he did well. Then he always has failed it. I ask him what is wrong and he says he just doesnt' understand it, but before a test he tells me he feels confident that he will do well. He has done this everytime. I have even sat with him while he was doing homework to help and he did pretty well then still failed the test miserably or quiz miserably. So he tells me he understands it and then fails. Tutors Saturday, Monday stays after with the math teacher.

@ 16 !!! We would go over his work right before a test, he would say he felt like he was going to ace it and he would barely get a passing grade!! Whatever help I tried giving him failed … he did graduate but barely passed. Keep an eye on all his other grades as well … My son went from straight A`s in all classes except the Math to STRAIGHT F`S !! I started watching him closely and to my horror , He was sneaking out of the house at midnight , I found he was doing drugs!! , and also bringing liquor to school in a paper coffee cup ( I thought it was coffee !!) but that is a whole other story. Watch him closely and don`t ever give up on him.

SimplyMicheleR

instead of trying to bang it into his head, especially if he is resistant, how about laying off. Let him fail - he can re-take it next year. Maybe he hates his teacher. Or is getting bullied in this class. or ????

If you must push him (which is more likely to backfire, make him hate math, school, and you) how about trying online resources instead of all of the BS. Khan academy is a GREAT online FREE resource.

FWIW, I home school my teen, and there are a LOT of free, online resources that can help in any subject.

SugarBaby71

It's true, some people suck at math. With Algebra something has to click and if it doesn't it's frustrating and futile.

Have you checked out the Kahn academy? It's free on line tutoring and the guy seems to have a way of breaking it down so that it makes sense to people.

RLDeShazo

When I ask him how he feels like he is doing or did on a quiz or test, he ALWAYS says he feels like he did well. Then he always has failed it. I ask him what is wrong and he says he just doesnt' understand it, but before a test he tells me he feels confident that he will do well. He has done this everytime. I have even sat with him while he was doing homework to help and he did pretty well then still failed the test miserably or quiz miserably. So he tells me he understands it and then fails. Tutors Saturday, Monday stays after with the math teacher.

1) some people don't like admitting they don't get it
2) some people have test anxiety
3) don't just take his word for it. Don't just look at what he has done, but have him EXPLAIN what he has done. Often students can mimic the steps without any real understanding, and when there is a slight difference to the problem, have no idea what to do.
4) Some people hear their whole lives that _____ is hard (insert math in this case). So they figure that there is no point in trying, because it is hard for everyone. If I was new to math and read this thread about how "hard" math is, I would stay far away from it.
5) where is dad?

littleandysmom

Wow...didn't read everything but some people can sure be mean. Let me start by saying that I rarely have checked my children's homework. My 26 year old son is a mathematician. He graduated from an elite university and had an 800 on his SAT in math.

He has said numerous times that college is not for everyone. He has respect for people that go to trade schools and are skilled in different fields. To the poster who's son completed the airplane mechanic school...that's awesome! His earning potential is high....kudos to him.

If he fails math...that's not the end of the world. You are a good mom! You want what's best for him. If I were you, I'd spend my energy finding out what he is good at and where his passions lie. If it means that he goes to summer school...well, maybe it would be less stressful if he just had 1 class to focus on.

VBnotbitter

Some kudos to the OP - her step son is only 13 years her junior and only recently being living with her. The fact that she cares so much and also that he obviously is trying with everything else at school rather than running riot is pretty good.

I was yet another bright kid who was lousy at algebra. I had an extra tutor, lots of parental support and I still couldn't get it. I remember it actually hurt to try and work through it. I resented the subject and could never see why it had any relevance to the real world. I failed but eventually passed on a retake and thought I would never need to use algebra again.

Fast forward 30 years and I use algebra all the time at work with no difficulty. The stress we put teenagers under to pass exams can add to the problem. Getting the balance right between support and encouragement and over-pressuring is the challenge of parenting.

rondaj05

What does his father say? I understand his father might not have been the custodial parent in the past but I assume he's been in his son's life from Day 1. Maybe he has some insight? I hate to sound rude since you were just giving us the rundown in a quick post but it seems like it's just you and the 17 yr old...what is his father's involvement? That may be part of the solution.

Good luck with this.

^This! I was waiting to see if I was the only one thinking about that. As a step-parent for almost 10 years, I've learned over the years to pick and choose my level of involvement and my battles. Especially with teenagers! It's a tough age anyway and I found many times that my step-daughter really wanted time and attention from her dad. Other times she played us against each other.

I'm also curious about his dad's level of involvement and what HE is doing to help his son?

Runner5AbelTownship

Maye he's just not good at algebra.

I completely and totally suck at math. When I was growing up I had all the help in the world -- mind you this was pre-internet where you can look stuff up -- my father, who is an accountant, helped me. I stayed after class for extra work, I had friends who were better at math help me and I just could not get it.

I still can't. I can't even do simple math in my head! :blushing:

^^^^ this is good advice. If he's doing well in other subjects, and he's doing the work in algebra but still can't do it, then maybe he isn't good at maths!

also look up dyscalculia, it's similar to dyslexia but involves cognitive deficits to do with number and arithmetic (it's related to dyslexia and someone could have one of them and not the other, or both of them). not saying he has that (impossible to say with just the info in your OP), but it's something you need to look into. I have dyslexia, it was never diagnosed when I was at school, I really struggled with reading comprehension and writing essays at school, but because I was top of the class in maths and extremely good at science, no-one believed me that i actually had difficulty and was constantly told I was lazy and berated over it, when I was working my *kitten* off. I was told all the things that were wrong with my essays and other work in English - and in science that I was getting Bs not As because my answers to essay questions were bad or I misread exam questions sometimes, when teachers knew that I could give much better answers orally..... I can see how that looks like someone who's bright but lazy..... but a kid who's bright but struggling in one specific area of the curriculum may have a specific learning disability e.g. dyscalculia. They don't affect intelligence, i.e. people with them could be anywhere on the ability range and bright kids with learning disabilities are the most likely to end up not getting the help they need, because their ability masks the disability, and teachers and parents are often not aware of how hard they're working just to try and keep up in that area. It's extremely frustrating and depressing to go through that as a child when you don't even understand yourself why you find it so hard and why everyone else seems to be able to do it easily when you can't.

So as to your question what he hopes to achieve by failing algebra.... kids who turn in all their assignments are not choosing to fail. Maybe they're genuinely struggling. The ones who choose to fail do no work at all, or just skip school altogether.

I have dyscalculia as well. Figures I'd have something that I can't even remember how to pronounce properly. I cannot retain HOW to do math even if the comprehension manages to sink in. It' alike taking an English speaker and handing them a book inArabic, not you know, Spanish which has some commonality, but Arabic.

ldrosophila

My step father got me excited about math. It was simply his passion for numbers that made it so exciting. He opened up new doors for me. Algebra became a puzzle to solve instead of rote memorization, and I could talk to my nuclear engineer step father and he would patiently explain to me numbers. I was very poor at math before to the point I couldn't figure out simple fractions, but his drive and instruction helped me.

OP I don't know if you have someone like this in your life who can talk to you stepson about his future aspirations and the role math will play. I don't know if we can turn his mind from math as something you have to pass to math the structure of life. Hope for the best tough age you can lead him to the water but you cant make him drink.

Grimmerick

My stepson is 17 and taking algebra, he is absolutely failing miserably his highest grade was a 76 and that was a friggin homework grade. He came to live with us in August of last year and didn't have good influences or study habits where he was, he does ok in his other classes. He just can't seem to get his crap together in this algebra class, I have him tutoring Saturdays and staying after Mondays. I have been nice, mean, strict, lenient and now I feel like I just don't care anymore because I feel like he isn't TRULY putting in the effort. He turns in all of his assignments but he even fails the homework, I asked how he failed homework since he had time to check his answers to make sure he was doing it right. He acted like he didn't know how to check his answers which I know he does because I showed him how and by now should be friggin common sense. Also he can probably plug any problem into search on his tablet and get a step by step answer, he is just lazy and not using his brain. I am not sure what he hopes to accomplish by failing this class considering his butt is going to go to summer school or get held back. Either way he HAS to pass this class and I have told him this. I am at my wits end, what do I do? I've kinda just stopped caring because he's gotta grow up sometime and realize some things just don't go away. Part of me wants to just let this happen and him just learn the hard way. But does anyone have any ideas before I do this or is it just better to let him learn this life lesson on his own?

Whos helping him and checking the homework?

Hes not failing. YOU ARE

ETA: Most reasonable parents that put an effort toward their kids schooling will go over their homework WITH them (not do it for them) and help check to ensure they are understanding whats going on and help check to make sure the answers are right. It doesnt do anyone good if they come home, think they are doing it right, then go back to school with everything done completely wrong.

So if you arent willing to put forth an effort why should the kid? You are the adult and clearly not setting an example. And by quitting? What kind of message does that send? Im glad you arent my parent.

Send the kid to my house, Ill help him.

Lol I was waiting for you, knew you would show up and here you are. Wow way to be an Ahole about it with not a lot of information to work with you sure just filled it right in didn't you. I was going to write a whole big thing how I have tried everything including ALL of that, I also don't believe in nursing 17 year olds from my teet like you apparently do. That I am 30 have no kids of my own to have had any previous experience with and work 7 days a week. But you aren't worth it because you are prejudging based on what you think you know. So your advice FAILED. God some people sheesh.......

You were waiting for me? LOL. Id say im flattered, but I have no idea who you are, but clearly you know all about me. I only have 1 child in attending college (was HS Class President), and the other starts college next fall (Takes AP Math Classes and Tutors other kids). And I did all that without asking people on message boards for assistance. Its perfectly clear you have no clue when it comes to this sort of thing. You said yourself the kid has only been with you a short time and his previous habits werent good (because thats his fault). You expect him to just eat a bowl of lucky charms at your house and be a completely different person??? And just because hes 17 means its all on him??? LMAO It takes EFFORT. Just not from him but from you too. Call me an Ahole im good with that, but one thing ill never be is a quitter; especially when it comes to my childrens education and future. Its a good thing you dont have kids and I hope you never do. You obviously dont understand the sacrifices it takes to raise another human being. I dont see single mothers complain half as much as you. 0 / 10 Would not bang and just break up with the kids father.

:Cauliflower For You:

hahaha I'm so impressed that you raised your kids so well considering how tightly you nailed yourself to the cross.............glad you're good with being an ahole cause that's how people are seeing you right now. Why would I understand the sacrifices it takes to raise a child, I am in a situation where we had to get him out of his bad enviroment so now I have a 17 year old in my 30's with no prior experience hence the reason I am HERE seeing about some USEFUL advice. Which you have managed not to give, just insults based on a few things you think you know about me, so what does that say about you? Oh wait you are above reproach and I am sure your kids were spit out with you already knowing everything there is to know about raising them. Now that's just not true is it. Here is some advice, next time try being helpful and actually give some good advice instead of attacking someone you don't know. That's what grown ups are supposed to do. Unless being rude, callous, and mean to others is what you need to feel important and good about yourself. I hope you wouldn't want your children treating someone that way. You always want them to turn out a better person than you right, I hope your crappy prejudging personality isn't genetic and dies with you, shame to pass on such negative qualities. Oh and you are a guy? I thought I was speaking to a nasty catty woman this whole time. That's just really sad. Man Up dude, women shouldn't mistake you for a chick by the way you present yourself.

LynnMorris2014

It may not be the math at all. You stated that he came to live with you. If this wasn't his choice maybe this math situation is a way of him having control. Don't give up and continue an open line of communication.

VelveteenArabian

Have you tried helping him with his homework? You sound like you know how to do it, so sit with him. Check his answers for him and make him keep at it until he gets it.