Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!
Replies
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My ex had zero self control sometimes. I mean, if we went to a bar, I could have one or two drinks and he would not stop chugging down the alcohol until he was stinking drunk. Then he would get mad when it was time to go. Usually cursed at the bartender when he told him it was closing time. What a jerk!
When we got home, that was when he really got mean. Don't even want to go into what the rest of the night included.
People said he was addicted to alcohol, but that is BS because he could go for several days without it and he wouldn't DIE. I mean, seriously, all he needed to do was learn to drink in moderation. I mean, how hard is it just to have one or two drinks then quit? He would get so mad at me because I could have only one or two drinks, or even not drink at all if I wanted to. It just wasn't that hard to do. Guess I just have more self control than he does.
Going cold turkey without it would be a bad idea, because that would just make him want it more. We all know that when you deprive yourself of something you enjoy, it just causes cravings for it.
If he was truly addicted to alcohol, then his body would die if he stopped drinking, right?
How hard is it to learn to have something in moderation?
Even losing 3 wives, kids, several jobs, car, license, etc, was not enough motivation for him to learn moderation.
Guess some people are just too weak minded.
Binging is most certainly a manifestation of addiction. Alcoholism comes in many different forms. The fact that he is unable to control himself around it and has ruined his relationship and career with it certainly suggests he has a serious problem.
Sorry that you had to live with that... but know that it most certainly was addict behavior.0 -
Had a sweet tooth my entire life. . . .so I relate. . . when Im craving sugar. . .I go for Oranges, apples, pineapple instead. . . they have the sugar but are healthier and less calories, plus fiber and nutrients that cookies, cakes don't have.
Flour doesn't have fibre? milk and eggs don't have nutrients?0 -
Had a sweet tooth my entire life. . . .so I relate. . . when Im craving sugar. . .I go for Oranges, apples, pineapple instead. . . they have the sugar but are healthier and less calories, plus fiber and nutrients that cookies, cakes don't have.
Flour doesn't have fibre? milk and eggs don't have nutrients?
Cake and cookies also have protein. Would you recommend them over chicken or salmon as a source of protein? Fruit is a much healthier source of nutrients than baked goods.0 -
Had a sweet tooth my entire life. . . .so I relate. . . when Im craving sugar. . .I go for Oranges, apples, pineapple instead. . . they have the sugar but are healthier and less calories, plus fiber and nutrients that cookies, cakes don't have.
Flour doesn't have fibre? milk and eggs don't have nutrients?
Cake and cookies also have protein. Would you recommend them over chicken or salmon as a source of protein? Fruit is a much healthier source of nutrients than baked goods.
Why does it have to be either/or?
Why can't it be both?
Why can't I eat chicken for lunch and have a slice of cake or a cookie afterwards?0 -
[food x] is much healthier [than food y]
No.
It's an overall diet, in its entirety that is more or less healthy. No individual food is more or less healthy.0 -
Had a sweet tooth my entire life. . . .so I relate. . . when Im craving sugar. . .I go for Oranges, apples, pineapple instead. . . they have the sugar but are healthier and less calories, plus fiber and nutrients that cookies, cakes don't have.
Flour doesn't have fibre? milk and eggs don't have nutrients?
Cake and cookies also have protein. Would you recommend them over chicken or salmon as a source of protein? Fruit is a much healthier source of nutrients than baked goods.
Why does it have to be either/or?
Why can't it be both?
Why can't I eat chicken for lunch and have a slice of cake or a cookie afterwards?
You can eat whatever you want if it works for you. If you can fit cake and cookies into your routine and have success, awesome for you.
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.0 -
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.
It's a sign that the person speaking/typing - if taken into correct context - actually has a healthy relationship with food.0 -
You can eat whatever you want if it works for you. If you can fit cake and cookies into your routine and have success, awesome for you.
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.
I did not say that. I simply said that they contain fibre and nutrients. They are not "empty" and devoid of all nutrition.
In moderation they are perfectly fine, even healthy to consume.0 -
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.
It's a sign that the person speaking/typing - if taken into correct context - actually has a healthy relationship with food.
I feel like I'm on very different wavelengths with some of you.
If someone wants to have the occasional treat of a cookie/cake/<INSERT SUGARY FOOD HERE> then that's cool.
But how is someone saying that if they crave sugar, they try a bit of fruit first to satisfy the craving a bad thing? Fruit is a healthier choice. That doesn't mean you can never have cookies or cakes. It means fruit is healthier than a sugary dessert.0 -
Had a sweet tooth my entire life. . . .so I relate. . . when Im craving sugar. . .I go for Oranges, apples, pineapple instead. . . they have the sugar but are healthier and less calories, plus fiber and nutrients that cookies, cakes don't have.
Flour doesn't have fibre? milk and eggs don't have nutrients?
Cake and cookies also have protein. Would you recommend them over chicken or salmon as a source of protein? Fruit is a much healthier source of nutrients than baked goods.
Why does it have to be either/or?
Why can't it be both?
Why can't I eat chicken for lunch and have a slice of cake or a cookie afterwards?
You can eat whatever you want if it works for you. If you can fit cake and cookies into your routine and have success, awesome for you.
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.
The idea that food x is healthier than food y indicates an unhealthy relationship with food.
The problem is that after your nutrient demands are met, you have leftover calories you can spend however you want. When you're in the mindset that some food is healthier than another food, then there's mental pressure on you to choose the "healthier" food because it's just inherently better. It encourages disordered eating.
The focus should be on providing your body with the nutrients it needs. You don't get bonus points for extra vitamins.0 -
Why does any particular macronutrient have to be "bad"?
I don't consider sugar to be a macronutrient. In my opinion, it should be avoided as much as possible in it's refined forms. When taken in via fruit and whole foods that have fiber and other health benefits, it's fine in moderation.
fruit sugar is the same as refined sugar...when they go into your body they are both treated as sugar. Your body does not way "wow, this is fruit sugar, use this for energy" or "oh s*** this is refined sugar, put this into fat"..sugar is sugar..whether you get it from unicorns or the seventh layer of hell it is treated in the same manner by your body.0 -
is someone saying that if they crave sugar, they try a bit of fruit first to satisfy the craving a bad thing? Fruit is a healthier choice. That doesn't mean you can never have cookies or cakes. It means fruit is healthier than a sugary dessert.
You're arguing two entirely different things. There's your problem.
If I've gotten all the macro and micronutrients my body needs and can actually utilize for the day/week/month/whatever-period-of-time, then the cake is no less healthy than the fruit. Ergo, fruit is not necessarily a healthier choice.0 -
You can eat whatever you want if it works for you. If you can fit cake and cookies into your routine and have success, awesome for you.
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.
I did not say that. I simply said that they contain fibre and nutrients. They are not "empty" and devoid of all nutrition.
In moderation they are perfectly fine, even healthy to consume.
I cannot think of many, if any, foods that are truly devoid of nutrition. But foods are all relative. You look at the benefits (taste, nutritional profile, cost, your individual preference at the time, etc.) of a variety of foods before you make your decision on what to eat. If you were to compare the nutritional profile of cake and cookies to other whole foods like fruit, you would choose whole foods almost 100% of the time.
As an occasional treat, sure. I understand the psychological benefits of that too. But for someone trying to improve their diet, choosing an apple over a slice of cake is a good way to start to make overall healthier choices.0 -
But arguing that cookies and cakes are as healthy as fruit is disingenuous.
It's a sign that the person speaking/typing - if taken into correct context - actually has a healthy relationship with food.
I'm not so sure about that. To me it's a sign of someone being a bit too zealous about an IIFYM approach. To me, a more honest relationship with food would be to admit that foods like cake and ice cream are generally unhealthy, while still recognizing that your body can tolerate unhealthy food in moderation and certainly it's possible to consume unhealthy food without gaining weight. I still drink a few diet cokes each week, but I'd never sit here and try to tell you diet coke is a healthy food.
Putting any emotions and cravings aside, I suspect you would be better off if you gave up up cake entirely and replaced it with fresh fruit, and that's why people are suggesting it's disingenuous to argue they are equally as "healthy." Of course, recognizing that we can't simply disregard all emotions and cravings, it's likely not sustainable for most people to give up these foods completely, and so they're better off finding ways to fit them into their diet. But that doesn't mean they're healthy, nutricious foods.0 -
is someone saying that if they crave sugar, they try a bit of fruit first to satisfy the craving a bad thing? Fruit is a healthier choice. That doesn't mean you can never have cookies or cakes. It means fruit is healthier than a sugary dessert.
You're arguing two entirely different things. There's your problem.
If I've gotten all the macro and micronutrients my body needs and can actually utilize for the day/week/month/whatever-period-of-time, then the cake is no less healthy than the fruit. Ergo, fruit is not necessarily a healthier choice.
This is all fine, except you should realize that the vast majority of people don't hit all of their macro and micronutrients each day - especially the micronutrients. It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day, and it's that much harder if you replace foods like fruits and vegetables with cakes and cookies. So, in theory, yes, you don't need more than the recommended amounts of macro and micronutrients each day. In practice, most people can't pull this off while chowing down on cake.
Again, I'm with you on these foods being fine in moderation. But I think it's silly to defend them as healthy foods just because it's possible to fit them into your macros.0 -
This is all fine, except you should realize that the vast majority of people don't hit all of their macro and micronutrients each day - especially the micronutrients. It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day, and it's that much harder if you replace foods like fruits and vegetables with cakes and cookies. So, in theory, yes, you don't need more than the recommended amounts of macro and micronutrients each day. In practice, most people can't pull this off while chowing down on cake.
Again, I'm with you on these foods being fine in moderation. But I think it's silly to defend them as healthy foods just because it's possible to fit them into your macros.
A) I do understand that. That's why my example was explicitly stated.
I think it's silly to classify them as unhealthy simply because you (not you, specifically) don't know how to make them work with your diet. 0 -
I cannot think of many, if any, foods that are truly devoid of nutrition. But foods are all relative. You look at the benefits (taste, nutritional profile, cost, your individual preference at the time, etc.) of a variety of foods before you make your decision on what to eat. If you were to compare the nutritional profile of cake and cookies to other whole foods like fruit, you would choose whole foods almost 100% of the time.
As an occasional treat, sure. I understand the psychological benefits of that too. But for someone trying to improve their diet, choosing an apple over a slice of cake is a good way to start to make overall healthier choices.
OK, let's approach this in a different way.
Say I've gotten a nutritionally balanced breakfast, lunch and dinner behind me. I'm hitting my RDIs for vitamins and minerals (maybe going a little over here and there, maybe going a little under here and there). My macros are in good order, I've eaten my daily protein goal, and I'm a little over my goal on fats and carbs, but I still have calories left.
There's a slice of cake in my fridge. There are two apples sitting beside it. I could eat the cake or the apples and not exceed my calorie goal.
Why should I reach for the apples over the slice of cake if I don't want them, all other things being equal?0 -
fruit sugar is the same as refined sugar...when they go into your body they are both treated as sugar. Your body does not way "wow, this is fruit sugar, use this for energy" or "oh s*** this is refined sugar, put this into fat"..sugar is sugar..whether you get it from unicorns or the seventh layer of hell it is treated in the same manner by your body.
You need to examine what is in fruit versus what is in refined sugar. The sugar that comes with fruit is accompanied by fiber and plenty of nutrients that often decrease the glycemic load.0 -
It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day[...]
No, it isn't. I've said this countless times in the last few weeks.
You should read up on fat-soluble and water-soluble vitamins and minerals as a whole.
God damn it, I rolled it.0 -
It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day[...]
No, it isn't. I've said this countless times in the last few weeks.
You should read up on fat-soluble and water-soluble vitamins and minerals as a whole.
I completely understand your point. And again, if it works for you then cool.
For most people on this site, though, I'd imagine that learning to choose the apple will lead to better outcomes in the long term.0 -
It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day[...]
No, it isn't. I've said this countless times in the last few weeks.
You should read up on fat-soluble and water-soluble vitamins and minerals as a whole.
I completely understand your point. And again, if it works for you then cool.
For most people on this site, though, I'd imagine that learning to choose the apple will lead to better outcomes in the long term.
Maybe at first, but once you educate yourself on macro and micro nutrition, its not that difficult to finish each day with a klondike bar or ice cream.0 -
I can't believe I read all 20 pages of this and no one posted the below study. My head seriously hurts from it, :laugh:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20056521
Conclusion: There is no support from the human literature for the hypothesis that sucrose may be physically addictive or that addiction to sugar plays a role in eating disorders.
So it goes back to a handful of people say, it's a habit. Just like the reason why children become fat when both parents are fat... they form unhealthy habits.
http://www.wsro.org/Portals/12/Docs/position-statement-sugar-and-addiction-2012.pdf
"In summary, the current evidence does not support the idea that human addiction to sugar is a valid concept or that it is a characteristic of individuals who are obese"0 -
I went back and got this to post here, because awesome.I can't believe I read all 20 pages of this and no one posted the below study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20056521
Conclusion: There is no support from the human literature for the hypothesis that sucrose may be physically addictive or that addiction to sugar plays a role in eating disorders.
So it goes back to a handful of people say, it's a habit. Just like the reason why children become fat when both parents are fat... they form unhealthy habits.
http://www.wsro.org/Portals/12/Docs/position-statement-sugar-and-addiction-2012.pdf
"In summary, the current evidence does not support the idea that human addiction to sugar is a valid concept or that it is a characteristic of individuals who are obese"
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I can't believe I read all 20 pages of this and no one posted the below study. My head seriously hurts from it, :laugh:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20056521
Conclusion: There is no support from the human literature for the hypothesis that sucrose may be physically addictive or that addiction to sugar plays a role in eating disorders.
So it goes back to a handful of people say, it's a habit. Just like the reason why children become fat when both parents are fat... they form unhealthy habits.
http://www.wsro.org/Portals/12/Docs/position-statement-sugar-and-addiction-2012.pdf
"In summary, the current evidence does not support the idea that human addiction to sugar is a valid concept or that it is a characteristic of individuals who are obese"
Well there you go. Science!0 -
It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day[...]
No, it isn't. I've said this countless times in the last few weeks.
You should read up on fat-soluble and water-soluble vitamins and minerals as a whole.
I completely understand your point. And again, if it works for you then cool.
For most people on this site, though, I'd imagine that learning to choose the apple will lead to better outcomes in the long term.
This is a horrible mentality that promotes food aversion over healthy living, especially in the chronically overweight.
I would also like to add that GL/GI theory is easily debunked. I was recommended a low-GI diet to lose weight, and once I'd bought a book explaining the principles to me and read that the GL/GI of any food is lowered by consuming it with a source of protein and/or fat, I realised the whole concept was just a repackaged telling of the basic principles of digestion.0 -
OK, let's approach this in a different way.
Say I've gotten a nutritionally balanced breakfast, lunch and dinner behind me. I'm hitting my RDIs for vitamins and minerals (maybe going a little over here and there, maybe going a little under here and there). My macros are in good order, I've eaten my daily protein goal, and I'm a little over my goal on fats and carbs, but I still have calories left.
There's a slice of cake in my fridge. There are two apples sitting beside it. I could eat the cake or the apples and not exceed my calorie goal.
Why should I reach for the apples over the slice of cake if I don't want them, all other things being equal?
I'll agree that in your theoretical situation situation it doesn't matter. But let's talk about the more likely situation for the average person. Many people don't even hit their macros needs reliably, much less their micronutrients, so let's assume you haven't hit all your RDIs for the day. Or let's take the average person who doesn't log their food, because let's be honest, we're in the minority here. What's a better snack? Cake? Or fruit? What, on average, would be the better decision? If you take the average person's diet, the fruit wins the vast majority of time - actually, it's hard to conceive of a situation where the cake would be the superior option. Even if your hypo, it's a 50/50 split.
In short, just because you can craft a theoretical situation where it doesn't matter which one you pick, doesn't mean that one isn't the better choice in the vast majority of situations.0 -
I can't believe I read all 20 pages of this and no one posted the below study. My head seriously hurts from it, :laugh:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20056521
Conclusion: There is no support from the human literature for the hypothesis that sucrose may be physically addictive or that addiction to sugar plays a role in eating disorders.
So it goes back to a handful of people say, it's a habit. Just like the reason why children become fat when both parents are fat... they form unhealthy habits.
http://www.wsro.org/Portals/12/Docs/position-statement-sugar-and-addiction-2012.pdf
"In summary, the current evidence does not support the idea that human addiction to sugar is a valid concept or that it is a characteristic of individuals who are obese"
Well there you go. Science!
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There was that recent study (not into looking for it at the moment) that said multivitamins are not necessary, my Primary Doctor backs that one.It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day[...]
No, it isn't. I've said this countless times in the last few weeks.
You should read up on fat-soluble and water-soluble vitamins and minerals as a whole.
God damn it, I rolled it.0 -
There was that recent study (not into looking for it at the moment) that said multivitamins are not necessary, my Primary Doctor backs that one.It's pretty difficult to get all the recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals from your diet each and every day[...]
No, it isn't. I've said this countless times in the last few weeks.
You should read up on fat-soluble and water-soluble vitamins and minerals as a whole.
God damn it, I rolled it.
Who said anything about multis? Did I miss it?0 -
I'll agree that in your theoretical situation situation it doesn't matter. But let's talk about the more likely situation for the average person. Many people don't even hit their macros needs reliably, much less their micronutrients, so let's assume you haven't hit all your RDIs for the day. Or let's take the average person who doesn't log their food, because let's be honest, we're in the minority here. What's a better snack? Cake? Or fruit? What, on average, would be the better decision? If you take the average person's diet, the fruit wins the vast majority of time - actually, it's hard to conceive of a situation where the cake would be the superior option. Even if your hypo, it's a 50/50 split.
In short, just because you can craft a theoretical situation where it doesn't matter which one you pick, doesn't mean that one isn't the better choice in the vast majority of situations.
If we're getting pernickety, micros and macros are generally more abundant in foods other than fruit. If I was lacking, for example, vit C (a water-soluble vitamin that we do need to consume every day) then I would eat a helping of kale or something similar over an orange.0
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