Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!
Replies
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The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
It would be nice if someone as educated and sensitive as you could actually add information to the discussion instead of just attacking people.
There HAVE been many scientific studies and valid information regarding addiction given by myself as well as many others on here. Unfortunately, they have been dismissed by some because they go against their PERSONAL beliefs.
This thread was started by a new user who has struggled with addiction her entire life. She came here looking for some advice on how to battle her addiction with sugar-laden processed foods. It quickly turned into a pissing contest debating whether or not there is even a condition of addiction to ANY substance.
This did nothing to help the OP.
She was told basically that she didn't have a sugar addiction and was just lazy and had no self control. Do you not think after 40+ years, that she already KNOWS that she has very little self control in that area?
That was the purpose of her thread, to find other people who struggle with the same thing, and could possibly give her some tips on dealing with her compulsions.
But no, once again, a thread has been hijacked by certain personalities that come into many threads, defending their personal opinions, insisting that everyone must be just like them, and agree with whatever they say as the gospel truth.
The forums are here for users to share information, as well as their OWN personal experiences, that might be helpful to other users. Spending all your energy on trying to convince people that their OWN PERSONAL experiences are WRONG, is just being a jerk.
Of course this does not include telling people that the latest coffee cleanse/raspberry ketone/coffee bean, etc fad, will not work, so don't even bother going there.
Whether some of you want to agree or not, Addiction is a real thing. There are two parts to addiction- physical AND psychological.
Anyone who has gone thru counseling for addiction either in themselves or for a loved one, understands how strong addictions can be. There have been NUMEROUS undisputed studies over the years that have proven the physical and psychological aspects of addiction, to not only drugs and alcohol, but to other substances and behaviors.
If a diagnosis of addiction requires the inability to survive without the substance of choice, then ALL of us are addicted to food, because we would eventually die without it.
I do NOT have a PHD in Psychology, nor am I am professional in the substance abuse field. I have, however spent years researching it, and going thru various counseling and rehabs with my ex, who was and still is an addict.
I have never been an alcoholic. I can go for years without a drink, or I can have one drink and stop.
But this is only MY experience with alcohol. I cannot use my own experience with it to deem that alcohol addiction does not exist.
That would be ridiculous.
In the same sense, I can have ONE cookie, or ONE square of chocolate without it putting into a sugar binge. But other people are different than I. And it would be extremely arrogant for me to insist that they should be able to have a cookie without going overboard.
Someone recognizing that they have a problem with a substance or activity is the first step in getting help for it.
Please stop berating and belittling them for admitting it.
And if you feel the need to report me for 'attacking' you, report away.
And some links for some valid information on various addictions:
Alcohol addiction
http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash
Drug addiction
http://www.na.org/
Food addictions
http://www.oa.org/
http://foodaddictioninstitute.org/
Sex addiction
http://saa-recovery.org/0 -
As for alcohol lowering inhibitions... this is a valid point.... and obviously doesn't translate to the sugar argument. But.... the fact is, that most adults, can have a couple of drinks, and stop. Some will occasionally get carried away, and drink to excess, but they certainly won't do it every single time. I have always described the feeling with me, that it's like a switch, inside my head, and one beer flips it, and then, it's game on.
I'm not trying to jack this thread.... I'm just trying to present the possibility that there's a similarity between an alcoholic brain, if mine is one.... and someone's brain who has issues with sugar.
Were you ever counselled? I saw you say your doctor didn't really take you seriously, but did you seek help from someone specialising in behavioural medicine?
I ask because quite often binging in that manner is psychiatric. And I'd probably agree it's the same for a lot of people who are overweight and binge on "bad" foods... their "addiction" to this product exists as long as the psychiatric marker (i.e. depression, low self-esteem, etc.) persists.0 -
The CDC says that most who binge drink are not alcoholics. I think a dependence is identified with a preoccupation with the substance, and that someone who occasionally binges when presented with the opportunity - but doesn't necessarily seek out or need such opportunities - necessarily qualifies.
There's a fine line, but I don't think that occasional uncontrollable binge drinking is necessarily an alcohol dependency.
I personally think I was well over the line. I wasn't occasional, by any means, I was alot closer to every day, than not..... I did want to make the distinction that I did not drink EVERY day, and therefore I don't think I could truly claim a physical dependence..... I'd say from late teens to almost 30 years old, probably 4 or 5 days per week, drunk to the point of blackout / passout..... I definitely sought out the opportunities. For one example, if I was working 12 hr day shifts, I'd stop at the bar for a quick one, wind up closing the place down.... get 3 hrs sleep, go back to work, and do the same thing the next day. After graveyard shifts, stop in the parking lot for a beer with the boys, drink until the bar opened, then drink in the bar until passed out, or moved on to another location... always ending in blackout or passout. This was not something I could control, until I quit drinking entirely. I tend to 'assume' that if I had a beer now, I'd be right back at square one. It's not something I wish to test. :bigsmile: Even for science.
There is nothing wrong with abstinence, or with going to AA for help with quitting. You do not need to be physically dependent to benefit from abstinence. :flowerforyou:0 -
Okay, but is sugar the cause of diabetes? Or is it genetics and/or weight issues? Check it out.OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The CAUSE of Diabetes was not in question here. Only the treatment and care for it, as well as the percentage of people who need to watch their sugar intake (total carbs, but especially processed carbs/sugar that dramatically increase sugar levels).
There ARE a large number of people on this site that do have a medical condition that requires that they control their intake.
Since the vast majority of people with Type 2 Diabetes are overweight and even obese, then the percentage of users on this site with sugar issues, might possibly be even higher than the general population.0 -
The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
If there us misinformation in the thread then I would suggest you should correct it with valid information. Otherwise, you are just not contributing at all. And this goes for everyone in the thread. In fact I believe this thread has made a ton of progress since the beginning where its developed into real discussion and debate instead of name calling and just saying your wrong. If it bothers you what people say, then I would advise leaving the thread or become more engaged without emotion.
I will note these last few pages have more rhetorical and pondering than overall debate. Heck, its the reason we as mods have let this go on for so long. There was a turning point I noticed where it became a beneficial and constructive. With that said I hope it stays on that track.
Additionally, most of us are probably not phd's, but if you work in the field or have advance experience or knowledge I would hope you provide it
Agreed. Stating an opinion is fine, but any and all factual corrections are always welcome. Personally, I have worked as a volunteer with addicts, but I have only had 3 college credit hours on it, so yeah, hardly an expert. The folks that I have worked with in the past were very appreciative though, and the licensed counselor that had me help out was also very appreciative. :flowerforyou:0 -
...
There are many doctors and researchers who see alcohol and drug abuse as simple coping mechanism for extreme psychological pain and distress instead of the commonly accepted 'have no ability to stop drinking'. It has been shown time and again that they can in fact, stop drinking if the reward is high enough.
...
Yep, yep.
For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.0 -
Okay, but is sugar the cause of diabetes? Or is it genetics and/or weight issues? Check it out.OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The CAUSE of Diabetes was not in question here. Only the treatment and care for it, as well as the percentage of people who need to watch their sugar intake (total carbs, but especially processed carbs/sugar that dramatically increase sugar levels).
There ARE a large number of people on this site that do have a medical condition that requires that they control their intake.
Since the vast majority of people with Type 2 Diabetes are overweight and even obese, then the percentage of users on this site with sugar issues, might possibly be even higher than the general population.
"Watching intake" does not necessarily mean abstinence, and certainly has NOTHING to do with "addiction."0 -
What would have impressed me is if she went out in the middle of the night to get a bag of sugar to eat. Hell I've gotten up in the middle of the night with no "treats" in the cupboard and ate some uncooked spaghetti. Why? Because it was there. Doesn't mean I'm "addicted" to spaghetti. It just happen to be the only thing I could eat without cooking at the time.I doubt anything less than a full concession would satisfy certain people.
BTW, my SIL confessed to me once about her sugar 'addiction'. In an attempt to stop her constant binging on chocolate, cookies, cakes, etc, she had stopped bringing them into the house. One night she couldn't sleep and got up and went to the pantry, looking for ANYTHING sweet. She found a half-used old bag of brown sugar in the far back corner, that was so old it had turned into a solid rock. She put the rock in a bowl, put some butter on top to help soften it, then microwaved it til it was melted. Stirred it up and ate the whole bowl with a spoon.
Yeah, that is pretty messed up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
^^ This
I have sat up texting folks and sending both pleading and *rude/nasty* IMs on MySpace (yep, this was many years ago) trying to obtain my favorite "poison" that's not available in store without a prescription. Also, once upon a time, went driving through neighborhoods and knocking on doors in the middle of the night.
(Thank God those days are behind me!)0 -
OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
Great you proved my point. I said 5 to 10% as opposed to the 33% the other person suggested. So I was only off by 1%.. not bad.
Did you miss the 35% who had prediabetes? Prediabetes is when you are insulin resistant and very close to becoming insulin dependent. The dietary recommendations for those patients is to lower carbs and limit processed sugars, (along with losing weight), to prevent fullblown diabetes.
So the statement by one user that 1 in 3 people on here have issues with sugar, is correct. and actually 2% lower than actual numbers.0 -
Prediabetes is when you are insulin resistant
You sure?0 -
OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
Great you proved my point. I said 5 to 10% as opposed to the 33% the other person suggested. So I was only off by 1%.. not bad.
Did you miss the 35% who had prediabetes? Prediabetes is when you are insulin resistant and very close to becoming insulin dependent. The dietary recommendations for those patients is to lower carbs and limit processed sugars, (along with losing weight), to prevent fullblown diabetes.
So the statement by one user that 1 in 3 people on here have issues with sugar, is correct. and actually 2% lower than actual numbers.
insulin issues =/= addiction
I'm failing to see your line of reasoning here. Are diabetics addicted to carbs?
Also, I could point out that I have had behavioral issues in the past with video games, obsessed to the point that I couldn't eat or sleep because I *HAD* to play. I got over that too. I often get obsessed with things, but once I recognize the behavior, I make changes.
Would you claim that a video game is addictive? Or would you claim that my personality type is one that is susceptible to letting *things* take over my life? I claim the latter and have always overcome my problems through willful change. It isn't the *things* that are bad, but my *behavior* that has been the problem.0 -
I don't think she's suggesting prediabetes means you're addicted. She's responding to a poster who said there's no reason to track your sugar unless you have certain medical issues, and she's suggesting that a high percentage of people do have such issues. It's one thing when only a small percentage of people have such conditions, but it's another if (as she's suggesting) 1 in 3 people have these issues. "Don't worry about it and just watch calories" may not be the best idea for one of every 3 people, going by her numbers.0
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I don't think she's suggesting prediabetes means you're addicted. She's responding to a poster who said there's no reason to track your sugar unless you have certain medical issues, and she's suggesting that a high percentage of people do have such issues. It's one thing when only a small percentage of people have such conditions, but it's another if (as she's suggesting) 1 in 3 people have these issues. "Don't worry about it and just watch calories" may not be the best idea for one of every 3 people, going by her numbers.
Thank you.
Now I am out of here. It isn't worth the aggravation.0 -
I don't disagree with this. I assumed we were still talking about sugar "addiction" and that many believe that sugar causes diabetes.
Okay, but is sugar the cause of diabetes? Or is it genetics and/or weight issues? Check it out.OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The CAUSE of Diabetes was not in question here. Only the treatment and care for it, as well as the percentage of people who need to watch their sugar intake (total carbs, but especially processed carbs/sugar that dramatically increase sugar levels).
There ARE a large number of people on this site that do have a medical condition that requires that they control their intake.
Since the vast majority of people with Type 2 Diabetes are overweight and even obese, then the percentage of users on this site with sugar issues, might possibly be even higher than the general population.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
As for alcohol lowering inhibitions... this is a valid point.... and obviously doesn't translate to the sugar argument. But.... the fact is, that most adults, can have a couple of drinks, and stop. Some will occasionally get carried away, and drink to excess, but they certainly won't do it every single time. I have always described the feeling with me, that it's like a switch, inside my head, and one beer flips it, and then, it's game on.
I'm not trying to jack this thread.... I'm just trying to present the possibility that there's a similarity between an alcoholic brain, if mine is one.... and someone's brain who has issues with sugar.
Were you ever counselled? I saw you say your doctor didn't really take you seriously, but did you seek help from someone specialising in behavioural medicine?
I ask because quite often binging in that manner is psychiatric. And I'd probably agree it's the same for a lot of people who are overweight and binge on "bad" foods... their "addiction" to this product exists as long as the psychiatric marker (i.e. depression, low self-esteem, etc.) persists.
Yes, I was. It's another sort of funny twist in the life of sloth. I didn't mean to imply that my doctor didn't take me seriously... he didn't at first... and I just remember so well, the look on his face, like he didn't know what to do.... it amused me. Then, he figured, he should try to get me into some sort of dry-out type facility. I told him I was up for anything that might help. Although, I was fearful, and hesitant about this type of approach. As his secretary was searching for such a place on the phone... ( this was 23 or so years ago... ) he asked if I'd like to try a psychiatric approach. I thought this sounded more to my liking. He hooked me up with this super old guy... he was Hungarian, I believe, which is neither here nor there.... except that he had a real personality.... he was a really old psychiatrist.... I quit drinking 3 days before my first visit with him, and that's when our relationship began. Right from the get-go, I liked the old guy, we just basically bullsh!tted about life. I smoked at the time, and so did he, and at that time, smoking in his office was optional ( not illegal ) and he'd occasionally bum cigarettes off me, while remarking that he shouldn't be doing that, it blurred the patient / dr relationship somehow.
So, we almost never talked about my drinking. I told him I'd stopped, and hoped to keep it that way. He insisted that I take Antabuse, and every time I told him I thought I didn't need it anymore, he'd insist I keep taking it. Eventually, I stopped taking it, because I was certain that I no longer needed it to prevent me from drinking. We talked about life, and he seemed to think I was wasting my life, and had no direction. He was the one who got me interested in computers. He tried, unsuccessfully, to get me to get further education. I took Ativan and another hardcore anti-anxiety med, ( which was a bit too hard core, so I mostly stuck to the Ativan ) for quite awhile... and some anti-depressants.... which I really didn't like the side effects of, and stopped with those, as quickly as possible, as well.
I saw that guy for something like 2 years..... I figured I was way past needing to see him, but he was like a buddy by that time. Then one day, his wife calls, and cancels an appointment, I assume he was sick... and I never heard from him again. Like I say, this guy was really freakin' old.... I knew the relationship wasn't gonna last forever.
I have to admit, when I first met him, I thought he was a bit of a nutter. I couldn't quite understand what sitting around and bullsh!tting about life, had to do with anything... I wasn't lying on a couch, and talking about my childhood.... ( although, I'd realized on my own, that blaming anyone else for my problems was truly pointless ) But, your 2nd paragraph probably hits the nail right on the head. The drinking wasn't the issue. It was the psychiatric marker that needed to be dealt with, I guess. So, the old *kitten*, probably knew exactly what he was doing.
It was a pretty good time. And congratulations... I rarely tell that story IRL.... and I've never told it on a public forum before. I think we have to become friends now. :blushing: Anyways, this thread will probably eventually turn to *kitten* and get nuked, anyways. :bigsmile:For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.
I didn't need to be told this. I knew it to be a fact. I would either die in some kind of accident, or kill someone with my car. I knew a couple of other guys who had killed people with their cars, and I was pretty certain I wouldn't be able to live with that. For some reason, age 30 was the magic number for me... like I said, along with a couple of wakeup calls right around that time... and having to go see the dr anyhow for my 'Saturday Night Palsy,' it all just came together for me.I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)
Let's just hope your brother has come out alive, and on the other side..0 -
OK, I didn't read all of this. But the bits I did - interesting discussion.
I only started on this website a few days ago. And am also wondering about my sugar intake: Calories in check, as are total carbs, fat, protein. Sugars - always more than "allowed" by the website. Looking through what I eat, most of the sugars come from fruit, no "junk" in there. So - do I now feel riddled by guilt because of this high sugar intake, do I cut down fruit and live on cucumber or tomatoes, or do I simply ignore it, because I like fruit and it really is meant to be good for you - whatever that exactly means?
Unless you have blood sugar control problems (diabetes, hypoglycemia, etc) then there's no reason for you to even track sugar. Go to your diary, click Settings, and track something else like fiber instead.
Don't like 1 in 3 of us have blood sugar issues?
Highly unlikely. If anything, it's more like 5-10%. And the question would be, was the insulin issue caused by genetics or poor nutrition?
According to the NDIC and CDC
11.3% of all people 20 yrs or older, have full blown Diabetes.
In 2005–2008, based on fasting glucose or A1C levels, 35 percent of U.S. adults ages 20 years or older had prediabetes—50 percent of those ages 65 years or older. Applying this percentage to the entire U.S. population in 2010 yields an estimated 79 million Americans ages 20 years or older with prediabetes.
There, I corrected one bit of misinformation with valid information.
Great you proved my point. I said 5 to 10% as opposed to the 33% the other person suggested. So I was only off by 1%.. not bad.
I will admit, I was wrong.. after more research it appears that industry estimates 25 to 30% of people have some type of insulin resistance... grant it, its an estimate but I could still be wrong...
But it still has nothing to do with sugar addiction.. its one speculative correlation that its tied to sugar.. but remember correlation =/= causation... there are many factors causing insulin resistance.0 -
Jonny, you have become the most annoying poster on this site, because you refuse to open your mind to any opinion that differs from your own. You give very little actual helpful information. 90% of your posts are simply posturing, and bickering over semantics.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Now I am out of here. It isn't worth the aggravation.0 -
The amount of misinformation and willful ignorance about alcohol addiction in this thread, baffles me to no end.:grumble:
I think it is safe to say that several people here do NOT have a future as substance abuse counselors. Good thing, as they would really suck at it.
It would be nice if someone as educated and sensitive as you could actually add information to the discussion instead of just attacking people.
There HAVE been many scientific studies and valid information regarding addiction given by myself as well as many others on here. Unfortunately, they have been dismissed by some because they go against their PERSONAL beliefs.
This thread was started by a new user who has struggled with addiction her entire life. She came here looking for some advice on how to battle her addiction with sugar-laden processed foods. It quickly turned into a pissing contest debating whether or not there is even a condition of addiction to ANY substance.
This did nothing to help the OP.
She was told basically that she didn't have a sugar addiction and was just lazy and had no self control. Do you not think after 40+ years, that she already KNOWS that she has very little self control in that area?
That was the purpose of her thread, to find other people who struggle with the same thing, and could possibly give her some tips on dealing with her compulsions.
But no, once again, a thread has been hijacked by certain personalities that come into many threads, defending their personal opinions, insisting that everyone must be just like them, and agree with whatever they say as the gospel truth.
Jonny, you have become the most annoying poster on this site, because you refuse to open your mind to any opinion that differs from your own. You give very little actual helpful information. 90% of your posts are simply posturing, and bickering over semantics.
The forums are here for users to share information, as well as their OWN personal experiences, that might be helpful to other users. Spending all your energy on trying to convince people that their OWN PERSONAL experiences are WRONG, is just being a jerk.
Of course this does not include telling people that the latest coffee cleanse/raspberry ketone/coffee bean, etc fad, will not work, so don't even bother going there.
Whether some of you want to agree or not, Addiction is a real thing. There are two parts to addiction- physical AND psychological.
Anyone who has gone thru counseling for addiction either in themselves or for a loved one, understands how strong addictions can be. There have been NUMEROUS undisputed studies over the years that have proven the physical and psychological aspects of addiction, to not only drugs and alcohol, but to other substances and behaviors.
If a diagnosis of addiction requires the inability to survive without the substance of choice, then ALL of us are addicted to food, because we would eventually die without it.
I do NOT have a PHD in Psychology, nor am I am professional in the substance abuse field. I have, however spent years researching it, and going thru various counseling and rehabs with my ex, who was and still is an addict.
I have never been an alcoholic. I can go for years without a drink, or I can have one drink and stop.
But this is only MY experience with alcohol. I cannot use my own experience with it to deem that alcohol addiction does not exist.
That would be ridiculous.
In the same sense, I can have ONE cookie, or ONE square of chocolate without it putting into a sugar binge. But other people are different than I. And it would be extremely arrogant for me to insist that they should be able to have a cookie without going overboard.
Someone recognizing that they have a problem with a substance or activity is the first step in getting help for it.
Please stop berating and belittling them for admitting it.
And if you feel the need to report me for 'attacking' you, report away.
And some links for some valid information on various addictions:
Alcohol addiction
http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash
Drug addiction
http://www.na.org/
Food addictions
http://www.oa.org/
http://foodaddictioninstitute.org/
Sex addiction
http://saa-recovery.org/
Did you even read my post or look at the link I did provide about Canadian wethouses? Here is another excellent read: A thoroughly well referenced article about how inaccurate it is to label addicts are 'diseased' and 'helpless'. Remember, the AA addiction model is JUST a model. I will say, that the reason I think AA and OA work to some extent is because people who struggle are no longer isolated, and receive rewards for abstaining.
The Myth of Drug-Induced Addiction
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/371/ille/presentation/alexender-e.htm0 -
I don't think she's suggesting prediabetes means you're addicted. She's responding to a poster who said there's no reason to track your sugar unless you have certain medical issues, and she's suggesting that a high percentage of people do have such issues. It's one thing when only a small percentage of people have such conditions, but it's another if (as she's suggesting) 1 in 3 people have these issues. "Don't worry about it and just watch calories" may not be the best idea for one of every 3 people, going by her numbers.
If only she had made that argument...0 -
Jonny, you have become the most annoying poster on this site, because you refuse to open your mind to any opinion that differs from your own. You give very little actual helpful information. 90% of your posts are simply posturing, and bickering over semantics.
Congratulations.
Heheheh.0 -
As for alcohol lowering inhibitions... this is a valid point.... and obviously doesn't translate to the sugar argument. But.... the fact is, that most adults, can have a couple of drinks, and stop. Some will occasionally get carried away, and drink to excess, but they certainly won't do it every single time. I have always described the feeling with me, that it's like a switch, inside my head, and one beer flips it, and then, it's game on.
I'm not trying to jack this thread.... I'm just trying to present the possibility that there's a similarity between an alcoholic brain, if mine is one.... and someone's brain who has issues with sugar.
Were you ever counselled? I saw you say your doctor didn't really take you seriously, but did you seek help from someone specialising in behavioural medicine?
I ask because quite often binging in that manner is psychiatric. And I'd probably agree it's the same for a lot of people who are overweight and binge on "bad" foods... their "addiction" to this product exists as long as the psychiatric marker (i.e. depression, low self-esteem, etc.) persists.
Yes, I was. It's another sort of funny twist in the life of sloth. I didn't mean to imply that my doctor didn't take me seriously... he didn't at first... and I just remember so well, the look on his face, like he didn't know what to do.... it amused me. Then, he figured, he should try to get me into some sort of dry-out type facility. I told him I was up for anything that might help. Although, I was fearful, and hesitant about this type of approach. As his secretary was searching for such a place on the phone... ( this was 23 or so years ago... ) he asked if I'd like to try a psychiatric approach. I thought this sounded more to my liking. He hooked me up with this super old guy... he was Hungarian, I believe, which is neither here nor there.... except that he had a real personality.... he was a really old psychiatrist.... I quit drinking 3 days before my first visit with him, and that's when our relationship began. Right from the get-go, I liked the old guy, we just basically bullsh!tted about life. I smoked at the time, and so did he, and at that time, smoking in his office was optional ( not illegal ) and he'd occasionally bum cigarettes off me, while remarking that he shouldn't be doing that, it blurred the patient / dr relationship somehow.
So, we almost never talked about my drinking. I told him I'd stopped, and hoped to keep it that way. He insisted that I take Antabuse, and every time I told him I thought I didn't need it anymore, he'd insist I keep taking it. Eventually, I stopped taking it, because I was certain that I no longer needed it to prevent me from drinking. We talked about life, and he seemed to think I was wasting my life, and had no direction. He was the one who got me interested in computers. He tried, unsuccessfully, to get me to get further education. I took Ativan and another hardcore anti-anxiety med, ( which was a bit too hard core, so I mostly stuck to the Ativan ) for quite awhile... and some anti-depressants.... which I really didn't like the side effects of, and stopped with those, as quickly as possible, as well.
I saw that guy for something like 2 years..... I figured I was way past needing to see him, but he was like a buddy by that time. Then one day, his wife calls, and cancels an appointment, I assume he was sick... and I never heard from him again. Like I say, this guy was really freakin' old.... I knew the relationship wasn't gonna last forever.
I have to admit, when I first met him, I thought he was a bit of a nutter. I couldn't quite understand what sitting around and bullsh!tting about life, had to do with anything... I wasn't lying on a couch, and talking about my childhood.... ( although, I'd realized on my own, that blaming anyone else for my problems was truly pointless ) But, your 2nd paragraph probably hits the nail right on the head. The drinking wasn't the issue. It was the psychiatric marker that needed to be dealt with, I guess. So, the old *kitten*, probably knew exactly what he was doing.
It was a pretty good time. And congratulations... I rarely tell that story IRL.... and I've never told it on a public forum before. I think we have to become friends now. :blushing: Anyways, this thread will probably eventually turn to *kitten* and get nuked, anyways. :bigsmile:For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.
I didn't need to be told this. I knew it to be a fact. I would either die in some kind of accident, or kill someone with my car. I knew a couple of other guys who had killed people with their cars, and I was pretty certain I wouldn't be able to live with that. For some reason, age 30 was the magic number for me... like I said, along with a couple of wakeup calls right around that time... and having to go see the dr anyhow for my 'Saturday Night Palsy,' it all just came together for me.I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)
Let's just hope your brother has come out alive, and on the other side..
Thank you for sharing. :flowerforyou:0 -
For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.
I didn't need to be told this. I knew it to be a fact. I would either die in some kind of accident, or kill someone with my car. I knew a couple of other guys who had killed people with their cars, and I was pretty certain I wouldn't be able to live with that. For some reason, age 30 was the magic number for me... like I said, along with a couple of wakeup calls right around that time... and having to go see the dr anyhow for my 'Saturday Night Palsy,' it all just came together for me.I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)
Let's just hope your brother has come out alive, and on the other side..
Yeah, for my brother, waking up in the hospital and being told he *did* die and had to be revived with the paddles was what it took. He relapsed once, early last year, and had to detox in the hospital again. I think it's actually sticking this time.0 -
For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.
I didn't need to be told this. I knew it to be a fact. I would either die in some kind of accident, or kill someone with my car. I knew a couple of other guys who had killed people with their cars, and I was pretty certain I wouldn't be able to live with that. For some reason, age 30 was the magic number for me... like I said, along with a couple of wakeup calls right around that time... and having to go see the dr anyhow for my 'Saturday Night Palsy,' it all just came together for me.I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)
Let's just hope your brother has come out alive, and on the other side..
Yeah, for my brother, waking up in the hospital and being told he *did* die and had to be revived with the paddles was what it took. He relapsed once, early last year, and had to detox in the hospital again. I think it's actually sticking this time.
I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are they looking into co-morbidity with him?0 -
Remember, the AA addiction model is JUST a model. I will say, that the reason I think AA and OA work to some extent is because people who struggle are no longer isolated, and receive rewards for abstaining.
I believe and this is strictly IMHO.... I have no real knowledge of AA, beyond what I've seen on TV, and those I've encountered, who are in the program... that AA has done their best to become the de facto authority on alcoholism treatment.... and happens to be the most widely known treatment. I don't think that this necessarily makes them the best option for many. As you say, it's just one model. I didn't feel it was a particularly suitable 'fit' for me, because, from what I'd seen on TV, they sit around drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes, and talk about what *kitten* they were.... ( absolutely NO offense intended for those involved in the program, this is only how I have seen AA portrayed on TV ). It also seems to me, ( again, nothing more than MHO.... ) that AA teaches the alcoholic, that he must attend meetings for life, or will relapse.... and when I confided in a guy from work, who was a cool guy.... he told me he was in the program and when I told him, I was not.... and that I was pretty much 'done with my treatment,' and just didn't drink anymore... he was pretty insistent that I should come to a meeting with him, or my future sobriety was in jeopardy. I feel like AA is sort of a cult type thing. I could further jack this thread with a fairly amusing story from my teenage years, when a buddy of mine got in the EST training. :blushing: Actually, it was Lifespring...0 -
For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.
I didn't need to be told this. I knew it to be a fact. I would either die in some kind of accident, or kill someone with my car. I knew a couple of other guys who had killed people with their cars, and I was pretty certain I wouldn't be able to live with that. For some reason, age 30 was the magic number for me... like I said, along with a couple of wakeup calls right around that time... and having to go see the dr anyhow for my 'Saturday Night Palsy,' it all just came together for me.I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)
Let's just hope your brother has come out alive, and on the other side..
Yeah, for my brother, waking up in the hospital and being told he *did* die and had to be revived with the paddles was what it took. He relapsed once, early last year, and had to detox in the hospital again. I think it's actually sticking this time.
I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are they looking into co-morbidity with him?
I had to Google that.
No, they hooked him up with the local AA group, and he has been doing that and going to church and such. He was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and I believe that he was using alcohol to self-medicate. With no insurance or access to the right meds, he could relapse again. But TBH, my parents are trying to make sure he has adequate cannabis, which is helping him a great deal. He is eating regularly and his mood is much steadier. (It's funny because twenty years ago, my parents used to want to argue with me about cannabis, but now that they have dealt with my brother, they have changed their tune.)0 -
Remember, the AA addiction model is JUST a model. I will say, that the reason I think AA and OA work to some extent is because people who struggle are no longer isolated, and receive rewards for abstaining.
I believe and this is strictly IMHO.... I have no real knowledge of AA, beyond what I've seen on TV, and those I've encountered, who are in the program... that AA has done their best to become the de facto authority on alcoholism treatment.... and happens to be the most widely known treatment. I don't think that this necessarily makes them the best option for many. As you say, it's just one model. I didn't feel it was a particularly suitable 'fit' for me, because, from what I'd seen on TV, they sit around drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes, and talk about what *kitten* they were.... ( absolutely NO offense intended for those involved in the program, this is only how I have seen AA portrayed on TV ). It also seems to me, ( again, nothing more than MHO.... ) that AA teaches the alcoholic, that he must attend meetings for life, or will relapse.... and when I confided in a guy from work, who was a cool guy.... he told me he was in the program and when I told him, I was not.... and that I was pretty much 'done with my treatment,' and just didn't drink anymore... he was pretty insistent that I should come to a meeting with him, or my future sobriety was in jeopardy. I feel like AA is sort of a cult type thing. I could further jack this thread with a fairly amusing story from my teenage years, when a buddy of mine got in the EST training. :blushing: Actually, it was Lifespring...
That is *exactly* how it is portrayed in pop culture. So true. :laugh:0 -
I had to Google that.
No, they hooked him up with the local AA group, and he has been doing that and going to church and such. He was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and I believe that he was using alcohol to self-medicate. With no insurance or access to the right meds, he could relapse again. But TBH, my parents are trying to make sure he has adequate cannabis, which is helping him a great deal. He is eating regularly and his mood is much steadier. (It's funny because twenty years ago, my parents used to want to argue with me about cannabis, but now that they have dealt with my brother, they have changed their tune.)
I had to Google it, too. Wouldn't the bi-polar disorder fit in the category of comorbidity ?
That's interesting, because the guy I worked with who was in AA, was a major p0thead, too. Awesome guy, just a little guy, an ex-Marine, and such a HUGE ego.... one of the most interesting and amusing guys I worked with in such a boring environment. I nicknamed him, 'Bilko...' 'cause he was always 'up to something.... ' 0 -
I had to Google that.
No, they hooked him up with the local AA group, and he has been doing that and going to church and such. He was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and I believe that he was using alcohol to self-medicate. With no insurance or access to the right meds, he could relapse again. But TBH, my parents are trying to make sure he has adequate cannabis, which is helping him a great deal. He is eating regularly and his mood is much steadier. (It's funny because twenty years ago, my parents used to want to argue with me about cannabis, but now that they have dealt with my brother, they have changed their tune.)
I had to Google it, too. Wouldn't the bi-polar disorder fit in the category of comorbidity ?
That's interesting, because the guy I worked with who was in AA, was a major p0thead, too. Awesome guy, just a little guy, an ex-Marine, and such a HUGE ego.... one of the most interesting and amusing guys I worked with in such a boring environment. I nicknamed him, 'Bilko...' 'cause he was always 'up to something.... '
Maybe.... I only read the wikipedia definition...
My mom will tell anyone, and *has* told a number of people, that my brother is a wonderful person when he is using cannabis regularly. In fact, before he got a job, they were helping him pay for it and encouraging it. Some people don't believe the research, but totally believe when they see how it affects a loved one.
LOL @ "Bilko" :laugh:0 -
Watch Dr. Robert Lustig's "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" and see if that is of any help. Type in his name and the title of his lecture in YouTube.0
-
For some, "You're gonna die if you don't stop," is the "reward" they need.
I didn't need to be told this. I knew it to be a fact. I would either die in some kind of accident, or kill someone with my car. I knew a couple of other guys who had killed people with their cars, and I was pretty certain I wouldn't be able to live with that. For some reason, age 30 was the magic number for me... like I said, along with a couple of wakeup calls right around that time... and having to go see the dr anyhow for my 'Saturday Night Palsy,' it all just came together for me.I have a younger bro who is an alcoholic. He had to be hospitalized to withdraw. If he went long without a drink, his hands would shake. But his drinking was not at all like mine. He would drink just a little, from morning until night, a nip here and there. I planned my binges and would drink until pass-out or black-out, but then would go a week or more in between. He had to drink every day. (He's been sober, for the second time, for several months now. Crossing fingers that he can stick to it!)
Let's just hope your brother has come out alive, and on the other side..
Yeah, for my brother, waking up in the hospital and being told he *did* die and had to be revived with the paddles was what it took. He relapsed once, early last year, and had to detox in the hospital again. I think it's actually sticking this time.
I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are they looking into co-morbidity with him?
I had to Google that.
No, they hooked him up with the local AA group, and he has been doing that and going to church and such. He was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and I believe that he was using alcohol to self-medicate. With no insurance or access to the right meds, he could relapse again. But TBH, my parents are trying to make sure he has adequate cannabis, which is helping him a great deal. He is eating regularly and his mood is much steadier. (It's funny because twenty years ago, my parents used to want to argue with me about cannabis, but now that they have dealt with my brother, they have changed their tune.)
His chances of staying off the hooch will be directly related to how well his bi-polar disorder is managed. He really needs to get on some meds IMO. The problem with bi-polars is they start to feel better, stop taking their pills, and then crash and burn.0
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