It's NOT always as simple as a deficit

angelsforme5386

I agree everyone does not fit in the same category, what works for some may not work for others. When you do find that nich it is awesome! I am finally losing weight this time around, the only thing I fear is when the plateau comes, hate that! Good luck with your goals!

determinedbutlazy

In.

Popcorn.gif

mamma_nee

And every single one of you has missed the point of the post.

There ARE people where this isn't the case. Medical issues? Maybe! Other issues, perhaps. EITHER WAY, they (we) need support and motivation too.

I am another of those who calories in calories out does not work till I tweak it and tweak it and tweak it But I hold my breath everytime I see everyone on these boards that disagree …Because of the science .. well my body doesn`t seam to give a hoot about Science ! It has its own mind and I actually did a little experiment on me right before I decided to change my way of life and to better my health. My doctor says my sugar levels are fine yet If I add 1 tsp of sugar in my morning cup of coffee and not change anything else, Guess what ? I GAIN 1 LB !!! How does a tsp of sugar equate to 1 lb? I did this for 1 week and gained 7 lbs!!! WHY??? I don`t know why ! My doctor doesn`t know why ! SCIENCE DOES NOT KNOW WHY!

Do what works for you and the heck with the SCIENCE

JohnDowding

And every single one of you has missed the point of the post.

There ARE people where this isn't the case. Medical issues? Maybe! Other issues, perhaps. EITHER WAY, they (we) need support and motivation too.

You are not an exception to the second law of thermodynamics. That's what "law" means.

I hear this a lot on MFP, never made much sense to me. Humans are not thermically closed systems. 2nd law only applies to closed systems.

chachicopley

In terms of weight loss, it still is calories in < calories out, but yes, source of calories does affect that equation. That is why I prefer use low calorie but nutrient dense foods, like seafood and veggies, as the basis of my diet.

TX_Rhon

In.

Popcorn.gif

Wish granted!

SophiaWright7

I think you are bringing up a great point.

I always believed calories in = calories out... I mean it makes sense, right?!

Maybe that's just me, but I find my body doesn't process carbs and protein the same way.

I'm not sure, but it's interesting food for thought.

GEMMA_2014

Unfortunately, there is no one formula for everyone. I had a difficult time losing weight. The deficit did not work for me. I had to double my exercise with the deficit. I am now losing weight. My body apparently needs 8 small meals a day , I need twice the exercise as a normal human and large deficits. It probably genetic. I blame my skinny ancestors. Now that I know what I need to do. I will do it and lose weight. My husband can eat anything he wants. If he decides he want to lose 7 lbs he can lose it in a week. I did not win the genetic lottery for weight control. But I am smarter than him because I figured out what I need to lose weight (LOL)

JohnDowding

While googling this, I enjoyed this link:

http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/calories-incalories-out-science-says-no/

Expanding on his point, it's not true that all calories are either burned or stored. I expel them in my feces, urine, and gases, I exhale, I radiate heat (especially when working out), and I have a host of bacteria in my gut that consume them for me.

Synamin

It's pretty simple. Sugar makes you retain H20. That's why people on very low carb diets have a huge weight drop in the first two weeks..

VBnotbitter

paganstar71

The OP is correct. "Calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics, as a matter of principle.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC506782/

lilbearzmom

I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.

For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.

But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.

Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.

Alright, trying really hard to not be snarky, but looking at your diary, it is the antithesis of "low carb". Your calorie counts don't seem off the charts, actually quite reasonable. Are you losing weight? Because if so, it would seem to prove you are not in fact a special snowflake,,,

iamMLH

I think the issue that people run into is that just because something doesn't appear to work within expectation doesn't mean it is going against the science. When an airplane flies, it is not working against gravity. It is working 100% within the laws of gravity.

According to most calculators, I should be at a deficit if I eat at around 2500 calories. I don't lost weight at 2500 calories. I normally don't lose weight unless I'm at closer to 1800 calories. That could mean my calculations are off by about 30% when I'm counting my calories (unlikely), I'm not really as active as I think I am (quite possible), that I've done some kind of metabolic damage over the years by eating incredibly low calories throughout the day (sure why not), etc. What matters is that I maintain at about 2000 calories. So, my deficit needs to be below that number. The calculator is a suggestion, and for me, it was wrong.

Saying that my suggested consumption doesn't yield the expected result doesn't mean the principles aren't true. Also, to say that different things affect the way your body processes calories doesn't mean that calories in vs. calories out is false. It means that your consumption needs can very based on the way your body is processing food.

Finally, what your scale says from one day to the next is not an accurate test of the validity of calories in vs. calories out. There is a big difference between weight loss and fat loss. I just weighed myself and was 208.8 lbs. and then had 2 cups of water. I'm probably about 209.8 lbs. now. No one believes that I just gained a pound of fat. However, your body can hold onto weight in various ways from day to day or week to week. Salt can make a difference. The amount of fiber you eat can have a large impact on your weight. Even stress can change the way your body retains or purges.

So, even though most of us will agree that a simple calculator and estimated counting may not guarantee success, please give a little more credit to science than anecdotal evidence, and recognize the difference between saying "eating at a deficit doesn't work" and "I didn't lose weight when I thought I was eating at a deficit."

JuiceBars

For me, it wasn't just looking at the calorie deficit but making sure the calories that I ate hit my macros. If I ate ate the desired calories but didn't hit 40-30-30- my weight loss didn't happen. And on days with lots of exercise I ate over my calorie allotment here and there throughout the process. Many people I see here hit their numbers but the components of their intake is way off balance.....way over on sugars and carbs and way under on protein and fiber. I do believe it is attention to detail and not just eating at a calorie deficit that keeps the machine running smoothly . Stress also wreaks havoc on our system as well. I believe that there is no one formula for everyone.

jodie_t

There's a new book out called The Calorie Myth.. its been discovered that cos of many more cals taken in/much less exercise in the last 50 years than previously, we should be even more overweight than we actually are - a LOT more in fact - if you do the simple maths of cals in- cals out. The fact that we aren't leads to the conclusion that are bods are far more complicated than that.

ninerbuff

Actually it is that simple. If people aren't getting results from it, then they may have to get checked to see if they have a medical issue that's hampering their weight loss.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

cwolfman13

And every single one of you has missed the point of the post.

There ARE people where this isn't the case. Medical issues? Maybe! Other issues, perhaps. EITHER WAY, they (we) need support and motivation too.

Even if you have medical issues it is still about energy consumption and expenditure. Medical conditions, hormonal imbalances, allergies, etc can mess with your metabolism and cause you to fall outside of the statistical norms that these calculators use to determine your calorie goals...but still...if you consume less energy than your body needs to maintain weight then you will lose weight. It is science.

lucasmoten

If eating at a deficit is not working, then something is seriously wrong internally and you MUST see a doctor because its a symptom of urination problems or GI problems in general where your body is not getting rid of the waste.

INPUTS: The reason eating more fruits and vegetables often works for people typically boils down to (a) actually getting required nutrients which then allows your body to release some waste it was clinging on to hoping it would find something, and (b) its much more difficult to underestimate calorie intake on fruits and especially veggies, unless you record 0. You can stuff yourself quite silly on vegetables and end up with a deficit without even trying.

OUTPUTS: Most people overestimate their exercise calories. This is a major problem here on MFP and other sites and systems because 99% of the time, the calorie equations are GROSS calories and not NET. Your calorie allotment for the day already includes your calories for being awake and normal body function for the period of time you were exercising. Some calorie burns on here are absolutely insane and no rational person would believe they can be correct (I'm looking at you "Hunting, General" which is not appropriate for someone SITTING in a tree-stand. You know what is appropriate? No exercise entry at all)

ok.. Now that I've gotten off that tirade, let me make some recommendations on what you can do to find your I/O balance...

1) If you are not measuring your food, start doing so. Get a food scale. They are relatively cheap and a wise investment. And please don't tell me you can't afford it ($10). Excuses are what got us fat in the first place, they aren't going to mysteriously start working in our favor now.

2) Whatever exercises you are doing (walking, running, etc), find a website that discusses gross vs net calories. Start calculating your net calorie burn and alter your entries here in MFP. If you can't find a website that covers it, then a very very rough formula would be Running Net = Running Gross * .8, Walking Net = Walking Gross * .6. Obviously this varies by your pace for both as that influences the time your basically subtracting out. Another way is to take your time and calculate how many calories that is of your net and subtract from your gross. For example, if your gross calories for the day is 1600, or 66 per hour, and your gross calories for an hour of walking were 200, then your net would be 134. The problem with this approach is waking vs sleeping hours isn't factored in. Either quick way though is a step in the right direction though as it lops off a large chunk that wasn't actually expended on the exercise.

3) Switch out your foods.

3a) Breakfast: Try to start the day with low calorie and high fiber high energy. Me personally, I love a bowl of plain unsweetened oatmeal along side a banana. Apart from the nutritional advantage, there is also the benefit that things have to be measured which gets me closer to the numbers listed on the side of the package. If you are skipping breakfast, then don't. Consider a banana (self sealed, single serving, low calorie and very tasty. Easy to eat while driving even). If you have a few more minutes, make a smoothie. If you want to spend some $$$ burning a hole in your pocket, start your day juicing. Whatever you do, avoid junk food like cereal. Yes there are a few good ones, but most people end up eating 2-4 servings without realizing it, and milk isn't exactly good for you either. Other candidates to avoid for breakfast are pop-tarts, granola bars, rice cakes. A traditional breakfast (eggs, bacon, toast) is actually quite good and balanced if time allows and portion sizes are controlled.
3b) Lunch: If you're like me you eat fast food. A kids meal is actually about right for an adult. My rule, for my calorie allotment is 600 calories for lunch. I've planned in advance what I can get for 600 calories at all my local fast food places. This tends to revolve around chicken or fish sandwiches, having salads instead of fries, and diet drinks instead of the bucket of coke. I don't forgo deserts when I can fit this in as I feel treats are an important part of dieting. I don't plan on giving up sweets for life, so I continue to eat them now, just in moderation. Here is an example of a meal I'll have at Wendy's: Vanilla Jr Frosty, Ultimate Chicken Grilled Sandwich, Garden Side Salad, Small (20 ounces!) Minute Maid Light Lemonade.
3c) Lunch-Alt: Sometimes, I'll change my routine away from 600 calorie lunches and go with a big lunch/small dinner. The easy, but crappy way to burn calories is simply to eat an extra value meal. Not very fulfilling so I don't recommend it. Instead, I'll add another sandwich or too, sans bread. For vegetarians, this would be opting for a large whatever or going back for seconds.

4) Figure out low-calorie snacks that work for you
My most predominate "snack" is coffee. Its actually more beneficial for the caffeine and keeps my metabolism rockin and burning through calories. I use artificial sweeteners and powdered cream to keep calories low.
As for a real chewable snack, I have celery fries. Celery is a fairly low calorie food to start with. I wash stalks thoroughly and cut into fry strips about 3 to 4 inches in length. Then I make a dip out of mustard and hot sauce. Unless its a creamy hot sauce, the calories are very low. Avoid peanut butter covered celery. It may be healthy (or not depending on the PB), but it is chock full of calories. That's a high calorie snack food, and you might as well be eating just peanut butter.
Then I also have prepackaged snacks. Other then the aforementioned banana (high calorie at 110+), I have found small can food or packaged vegetables in sodium water to do the trick throughout the day. They aren't very palatable though. Its the perfect snack to make me want 1, eat it, and realize that no, I really don't want another. A snack that I like, but don't love.

5) Find your vices and do what you can to get rid of them.
For me, there are certain snack food items that if I have them around, I feel compelled to consume them, just to get rid of them. Potato chips, beef jerky, and others fit into this category. I may not eat the entire bag in one sitting, but I know I've found a problem food if my plan to eat just one or two servings turns into 4 to 6. As these are identified, they are mentally put on my "do-not-buy" list.

6) Vitamins and Water - It can't be emphasized enough the importance of nutrients and water. Get plenty of both. Take a mutivitamin daily for a few days. Going back to the beginning, if your body truly is holding on to waste, then you may not be getting enough water to help work things through. Whenever I feel myself plateauing, its usually due to inadequate water intake. I get over this by flooding my system with water for a few days. You know you're hydrated when you start urinating as much as your drinking, and as often, and its becoming quite clear.

Hopefully some of the above is helpful. I still stand by my original statement though. If eating at a deficit is not working, then something is seriously wrong internally and you MUST see a doctor.

PRMinx

I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.

For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.

But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.

Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.

Your diet doesn't look low carb to me....is it just an off week?

Sabine_Stroehm

I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.

For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.

But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.

Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.

Your diet doesn't look low carb to me....is it just an off week?

Did she say "low carb" somewhere in another post? In her OP she said LESS carbs.

PRMinx

I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.

For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.

But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.

Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.

Your diet doesn't look low carb to me....is it just an off week?

Did she say "low carb" somewhere in another post? In her OP she said LESS carbs.

I wouldn't even consider her last week as being "less carb".

Sabine_Stroehm

I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.

For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.

But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.

Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.

Your diet doesn't look low carb to me....is it just an off week?

Did she say "low carb" somewhere in another post? In her OP she said LESS carbs.

I wouldn't even consider her last week as being "less carb".

Dunno. Not sure what her "more carb" was. Nor the type.

sun_fish

And every single one of you has missed the point of the post.

There ARE people where this isn't the case. Medical issues? Maybe! Other issues, perhaps. EITHER WAY, they (we) need support and motivation too.

Even if you have medical issues it is still about energy consumption and expenditure. Medical conditions, hormonal imbalances, allergies, etc can mess with your metabolism and cause you to fall outside of the statistical norms that these calculators use to determine your calorie goals...but still...if you consume less energy than your body needs to maintain weight then you will lose weight. It is science.

Agree with this response. Also, OP says in a different forum topic that she has PCOS. She should have included that detail in her post.

PRMinx

I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.

For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.

But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.

Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.

Your diet doesn't look low carb to me....is it just an off week?

Did she say "low carb" somewhere in another post? In her OP she said LESS carbs.

I wouldn't even consider her last week as being "less carb".

Dunno. Not sure what her "more carb" was. Nor the type.

I'm pretty sure a diet that regularly consists of Digiorno, McDonalds and pasta (Olive Garden) is not going to meet any kind of "less carbs" goal. Not that I have a problem with those foods at all - or the OP - it's just a curious thing to say in a post given her meals the past week. That's why I asked if the past week was an anomaly...

00NL

Actuly calorie in is very simple

but calories out is complicated depending on various factors

rules are the same but All bodies are different

mandikaye

Going to try and reply to everything and then I'm out, for good. The forums here are just... too prickly for me.

1) I didn't say low carb, I said less carb. I used to never eat vegetables AT ALL. Zero. Then when I decided to switch things up and be healthy, the weeks where my 1300 calories included MORE vegetables, I saw a bigger difference than the weeks where I didn't have vegetables have all. That tells me that FOR ME, not all calories are created equal.

2) To the person who said I should have disclosed to this thread that I have PCOS and/or am insulin resistant - no. This thread was for the people who are like me and would have recognized those things instantly (and clearly did, if you read the thread). When I'm trying to offer motivation to those who feel the same frustrations I do, then no - I don't have to disclose my medical history. There's a reason I posted this under "Motivation and Support".

3) Re: my food diary - Friday was an off day. My parents took me to dinner, and I'm not going to pass up my favorite meal when it's not my dime paying for it. The rest of the week, I stayed within my calorie goals and while it may have included "digiornio" every day, it was a single slice of pizza WITH a salad every day (hello vegetables!). I have zero guilt for that.

PRMinx

Going to try and reply to everything and then I'm out, for good. The forums here are just... too prickly for me.

1) I didn't say low carb, I said less carb. I used to never eat vegetables AT ALL. Zero. Then when I decided to switch things up and be healthy, the weeks where my 1300 calories included MORE vegetables, I saw a bigger difference than the weeks where I didn't have vegetables have all. That tells me that FOR ME, not all calories are created equal.

2) To the person who said I should have disclosed to this thread that I have PCOS and/or am insulin resistant - no. This thread was for the people who are like me and would have recognized those things instantly (and clearly did, if you read the thread). When I'm trying to offer motivation to those who feel the same frustrations I do, then no - I don't have to disclose my medical history. There's a reason I posted this under "Motivation and Support".

3) Re: my food diary - Friday was an off day. My parents took me to dinner, and I'm not going to pass up my favorite meal when it's not my dime paying for it. The rest of the week, I stayed within my calorie goals and while it may have included "digiornio" every day, it was a single slice of pizza WITH a salad every day (hello vegetables!). I have zero guilt for that.

Nor should you have guilt. I'm not judging your diet, which I was pretty clear about, I was just curious about the terminology.

The most important thing for other readers here is that "less carb" is completely relative and subjective.

paganstar71

Going to try and reply to everything and then I'm out, for good. The forums here are just... too prickly for me.

1) I didn't say low carb, I said less carb. I used to never eat vegetables AT ALL. Zero. Then when I decided to switch things up and be healthy, the weeks where my 1300 calories included MORE vegetables, I saw a bigger difference than the weeks where I didn't have vegetables have all. That tells me that FOR ME, not all calories are created equal.

2) To the person who said I should have disclosed to this thread that I have PCOS and/or am insulin resistant - no. This thread was for the people who are like me and would have recognized those things instantly (and clearly did, if you read the thread). When I'm trying to offer motivation to those who feel the same frustrations I do, then no - I don't have to disclose my medical history. There's a reason I posted this under "Motivation and Support".

3) Re: my food diary - Friday was an off day. My parents took me to dinner, and I'm not going to pass up my favorite meal when it's not my dime paying for it. The rest of the week, I stayed within my calorie goals and while it may have included "digiornio" every day, it was a single slice of pizza WITH a salad every day (hello vegetables!). I have zero guilt for that.

Mandikaye, you have my support. Don't let the haters get you down. Diary critics are abhorrent!

PRMinx

Going to try and reply to everything and then I'm out, for good. The forums here are just... too prickly for me.

1) I didn't say low carb, I said less carb. I used to never eat vegetables AT ALL. Zero. Then when I decided to switch things up and be healthy, the weeks where my 1300 calories included MORE vegetables, I saw a bigger difference than the weeks where I didn't have vegetables have all. That tells me that FOR ME, not all calories are created equal.

2) To the person who said I should have disclosed to this thread that I have PCOS and/or am insulin resistant - no. This thread was for the people who are like me and would have recognized those things instantly (and clearly did, if you read the thread). When I'm trying to offer motivation to those who feel the same frustrations I do, then no - I don't have to disclose my medical history. There's a reason I posted this under "Motivation and Support".

3) Re: my food diary - Friday was an off day. My parents took me to dinner, and I'm not going to pass up my favorite meal when it's not my dime paying for it. The rest of the week, I stayed within my calorie goals and while it may have included "digiornio" every day, it was a single slice of pizza WITH a salad every day (hello vegetables!). I have zero guilt for that.

Mandikaye, you have my support. Don't let the haters get you down. Diary critics are abhorrent!

Abhorrent huh? Pretty strong word there...

Here's the thing. If you are going to post about the virtues of a particular diet plan because it worked for you, then be prepared for people to look at your diary to see what's working! Otherwise, hide your diary.

If you go back and actually read the posts, there aren't that many haters here at all. It's a pretty tame thread. But, on a forum where people are always posting about no carb, low carb, less carb, more carb, all carb, you can expect that people will be looking for clarification, evidence, etc.