move less and eat less

CyberEd312

Just so I totally understand your POV.... I am totally doing this all wrong and have been for the 3 years of weight loss and 1 1/2 years of maintenance. I started out trapped in my house unable to walk from room to room, Was literally hoisted into a therapy pool on a water chair and used water displacement for 17 months to allow me to stand long enough to exercise and lose enough weight to get out of the pool and get fitted with braces to allow me to exercise out of the pool. I fuel my body for the workout I do (been eating 4000 calories a day for the past 14 months in maintenance) and am currently working out 6 days a week with a random rest day mixed in based off the routine I am doing each week. I am doing both weight training (4 days) and cardio (some form of 6 days). and along the way I lost a few pounds.... you are totally against this approach because to you I am over training correct????

IDK, maybe you are working optimally for your capacity.

test it! add in some rest days and see what happens. if your brain is sort of refusing the very idea, you suffer from a cognitive distortion, my friend, because when you are being rational you don't feel like the sky will fall because you didn't work out today.

There is that cognitive distortion mantra again.... You perceive to know me with statements that you can not comprehend. You think after 4 1/2 years and losing 312 lbs. that I don't already have a handle on this entire process and what I can and can not do within the confines of my body, mind and soul... Last Sunday I woke up with a sore throat and shut it down skip the gym Mon and Tuesday, reassessed and was sicker so took the rest of the week off, Saturday ended up at Urgent care and have Bronchitis and Severe Ear infections in both ears and am now on Z packs to fight this off. I decided to continue my rest plan and reassess on Tuesday. So there is an Entire 9 days out of the gym before I even consider going back and I am not "Woah is me" cause I missed a workout. I cut my intake to reflect for my lack of exercise and have caught up on all episodes of breaking bad and dexter... I see absolutely nothing wrong with the approach that I took to get to were I am today and have no plans to change what isn't broken..... You praise those that support your theory and denounce those that don't adhere to your said plan even though your approach is not the end all be all....

pcastagner

wow...I am sorry, but I have been following this thread and OP, it seems to me you are simply advocating against the EatMore crowd, encouraging 'steep' deficits and intermittent fasting as the way to go. You should be more forthright with your intentions right from the get go rather than positioning your discovery as something new to the boards here.

Rest days are important for many reasons. Yup. But all this other stuff on your agenda, they are just other approaches that can be used when breaking a plateau - which have been discussed ad nauseum on the boards.

It ain't rocket science, folks.

I'm going a little further, though I do prefer those options you mentioned in my case.


There is a particular type of person - people like me - who need to be told quite emphatically to BE PATIENT and that you don't need to punish away the fat.

pcastagner

Just so I totally understand your POV.... I am totally doing this all wrong and have been for the 3 years of weight loss and 1 1/2 years of maintenance. I started out trapped in my house unable to walk from room to room, Was literally hoisted into a therapy pool on a water chair and used water displacement for 17 months to allow me to stand long enough to exercise and lose enough weight to get out of the pool and get fitted with braces to allow me to exercise out of the pool. I fuel my body for the workout I do (been eating 4000 calories a day for the past 14 months in maintenance) and am currently working out 6 days a week with a random rest day mixed in based off the routine I am doing each week. I am doing both weight training (4 days) and cardio (some form of 6 days). and along the way I lost a few pounds.... you are totally against this approach because to you I am over training correct????

IDK, maybe you are working optimally for your capacity.

test it! add in some rest days and see what happens. if your brain is sort of refusing the very idea, you suffer from a cognitive distortion, my friend, because when you are being rational you don't feel like the sky will fall because you didn't work out today.

There is that cognitive distortion mantra again.... You perceive to know me with statements that you can not comprehend. You think after 4 1/2 years and losing 312 lbs. that I don't already have a handle on this entire process and what I can and can not do within the confines of my body, mind and soul... Last Sunday I woke up with a sore throat and shut it down skip the gym Mon and Tuesday, reassessed and was sicker so took the rest of the week off, Saturday ended up at Urgent care and have Bronchitis and Severe Ear infections in both ears and am now on Z packs to fight this off. I decided to continue my rest plan and reassess on Tuesday. So there is an Entire 9 days out of the gym before I even consider going back and I am not "Woah is me" cause I missed a workout. I cut my intake to reflect for my lack of exercise and have caught up on all episodes of breaking bad and dexter... I see absolutely nothing wrong with the approach that I took to get to were I am today and have no plans to change what isn't broken..... You praise those that support your theory and denounce those that don't adhere to your said plan even though your approach is not the end all be all....

I don't presume to know anything about you, which is why I said the word "if". As in "if" you follow the same pattern as me, chances are you have the same problem. Also "if" talk of rest days makes you angry, that's pretty suspect IMO.

the lady doth protest too much though... so add a rest day man.

pcastagner

your body comes back stronger than before? that's not a given, sorry. your body comes back stronger than before IF: 1)resources are available
2)it has an opportunity to repair itself fully

But why would you NOT give it the resources it requires and the opportunity to repair itself?

that's the question I asked in my OP, based on the curious case of me, a guy who DID JUST THAT!

it appears you agree with me, sir, but are confused about why someone would need to be told. the answer is that some people are like me, it makes no sense, but we can help fix it with some choice reminders and shifts in emphasis.

So your solution is to eat less and move less?

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move less).


just like the people coming out of the woodwork now that the haters who have been rushing to take me down have mostly moved on (or been reported), I noticed a really weird acceleration in fat loss from extra rest (which I only started doing to make strength gains by following a program requiring 4 rest days per week minimum). That's not my evidence for you guys, but it was enough to get me thinking.

Then I started reviewing all the literature that got me here, and wtf! I've been ignoring this recommendation from the start, because exercise was my distraction and that was more important to me than progress.


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

J72FIT

your body comes back stronger than before? that's not a given, sorry. your body comes back stronger than before IF: 1)resources are available
2)it has an opportunity to repair itself fully

But why would you NOT give it the resources it requires and the opportunity to repair itself?

that's the question I asked in my OP, based on the curious case of me, a guy who DID JUST THAT!

it appears you agree with me, sir, but are confused about why someone would need to be told. the answer is that some people are like me, it makes no sense, but we can help fix it with some choice reminders and shifts in emphasis.

So your solution is to eat less and move less?

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move less).


just like the people coming out of the woodwork now that the haters who have been rushing to take me down have mostly moved on (or been reported), I noticed a really weird acceleration in fat loss from extra rest (which I only started doing to make strength gains by following a program requiring 4 rest days per week minimum). That's not my evidence for you guys, but it was enough to get me thinking.

Then I started reviewing all the literature that got me here, and wtf! I've been ignoring this recommendation from the start, because exercise was my distraction and that was more important to me than progress.


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

Da you do any movement? Do you have a physical job? Do your daily activities keep you moving?

madrose0715

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move lesss)...


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

See- this is where I cannot agree with you as I simply will not run on that steep of a deficit. I do not disagree with you about the importance of rest days but absolutely will not sign on to any type of approach that encourages such steep deficits. All you are doing here is creating a large deficit by eating very low calories in hopes that your scale weight drops more rapidly. If you are talking about this approach as a way to break a plateau for a minimum period of time (a couple weeks perhaps) - ok, sure. But as a way to lose a significant amount of weight and to eat at such a large deficit for an extended period of time? No, thank you. To me, a moderate approach with both exercise and deficit is the key to long term success.

QuietBloom

It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.

Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.


Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.


Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!

I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...

I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.

Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.

*nod* ---> off for a run

3dogsrunning

your body comes back stronger than before? that's not a given, sorry. your body comes back stronger than before IF: 1)resources are available
2)it has an opportunity to repair itself fully

But why would you NOT give it the resources it requires and the opportunity to repair itself?

that's the question I asked in my OP, based on the curious case of me, a guy who DID JUST THAT!

it appears you agree with me, sir, but are confused about why someone would need to be told. the answer is that some people are like me, it makes no sense, but we can help fix it with some choice reminders and shifts in emphasis.

So your solution is to eat less and move less?

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move less).


just like the people coming out of the woodwork now that the haters who have been rushing to take me down have mostly moved on (or been reported), I noticed a really weird acceleration in fat loss from extra rest (which I only started doing to make strength gains by following a program requiring 4 rest days per week minimum). That's not my evidence for you guys, but it was enough to get me thinking.

Then I started reviewing all the literature that got me here, and wtf! I've been ignoring this recommendation from the start, because exercise was my distraction and that was more important to me than progress.


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

Holy crap. Haters? People are allowed to have opposing opinions or to question your points,its an open forum, that does not make them haters. You are the one who has been condescending and insulting to those who don't agree with you.

pcastagner

your body comes back stronger than before? that's not a given, sorry. your body comes back stronger than before IF: 1)resources are available
2)it has an opportunity to repair itself fully

But why would you NOT give it the resources it requires and the opportunity to repair itself?

that's the question I asked in my OP, based on the curious case of me, a guy who DID JUST THAT!

it appears you agree with me, sir, but are confused about why someone would need to be told. the answer is that some people are like me, it makes no sense, but we can help fix it with some choice reminders and shifts in emphasis.

So your solution is to eat less and move less?

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move less).


just like the people coming out of the woodwork now that the haters who have been rushing to take me down have mostly moved on (or been reported), I noticed a really weird acceleration in fat loss from extra rest (which I only started doing to make strength gains by following a program requiring 4 rest days per week minimum). That's not my evidence for you guys, but it was enough to get me thinking.

Then I started reviewing all the literature that got me here, and wtf! I've been ignoring this recommendation from the start, because exercise was my distraction and that was more important to me than progress.


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

Da you do any movement? Do you have a physical job? Do your daily activities keep you moving?

I'm impressed at how good your modeling is! Very intuitive and you must know quite a bit, because you worked out without me telling you that I am able to structure my days so I have complete rest.


I'm an opera singer, so I'm leveraging the lifestyle that led me to obesity and weakness.

J72FIT

your body comes back stronger than before? that's not a given, sorry. your body comes back stronger than before IF: 1)resources are available
2)it has an opportunity to repair itself fully

But why would you NOT give it the resources it requires and the opportunity to repair itself?

that's the question I asked in my OP, based on the curious case of me, a guy who DID JUST THAT!

it appears you agree with me, sir, but are confused about why someone would need to be told. the answer is that some people are like me, it makes no sense, but we can help fix it with some choice reminders and shifts in emphasis.

So your solution is to eat less and move less?

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move less).


just like the people coming out of the woodwork now that the haters who have been rushing to take me down have mostly moved on (or been reported), I noticed a really weird acceleration in fat loss from extra rest (which I only started doing to make strength gains by following a program requiring 4 rest days per week minimum). That's not my evidence for you guys, but it was enough to get me thinking.

Then I started reviewing all the literature that got me here, and wtf! I've been ignoring this recommendation from the start, because exercise was my distraction and that was more important to me than progress.


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

Da you do any movement? Do you have a physical job? Do your daily activities keep you moving?

I'm impressed at how good your modeling is! Very intuitive and you must know quite a bit, because you worked out without me telling you that I am able to structure my days so I have complete rest.


I'm an opera singer, so I'm leveraging the lifestyle that led me to obesity and weakness.

I am just trying to get an idea of what your daily life is like. How much non exercise movement if any...

pcastagner

your body comes back stronger than before? that's not a given, sorry. your body comes back stronger than before IF: 1)resources are available
2)it has an opportunity to repair itself fully

But why would you NOT give it the resources it requires and the opportunity to repair itself?

that's the question I asked in my OP, based on the curious case of me, a guy who DID JUST THAT!

it appears you agree with me, sir, but are confused about why someone would need to be told. the answer is that some people are like me, it makes no sense, but we can help fix it with some choice reminders and shifts in emphasis.

So your solution is to eat less and move less?

yup!

instead of trying to create a deficit with exercise, I just eat less, and rest more (move less).


just like the people coming out of the woodwork now that the haters who have been rushing to take me down have mostly moved on (or been reported), I noticed a really weird acceleration in fat loss from extra rest (which I only started doing to make strength gains by following a program requiring 4 rest days per week minimum). That's not my evidence for you guys, but it was enough to get me thinking.

Then I started reviewing all the literature that got me here, and wtf! I've been ignoring this recommendation from the start, because exercise was my distraction and that was more important to me than progress.


ETA - the most salient counter-point here came from sarauk2sf (again), who pointed out that this is only possible because i can get enough to run 1000 cal deficits without malnourished, while being sedentary, whereas certain very small and lean individuals (usually women) would not be able to pull it off without some cardio.

Holy crap. Haters? People are allowed to have opposing opinions or to question your points,its an open forum, that does not make them haters. You are the one who has been condescending and insulting to those who don't agree with you.

I'm not saying everyone who disagrees here is a hater.


Are you seriously saying none of them are?


Not saying I'm perfect either, some I my comments are just crabby. But you know what? The people who replied positively to this thread, as few and far between as they are, and the manner in which they responded, is more than enough to make this poster very happy for trying.

mxmkenney

@ pcastegner - I get what your saying. A couple years ago I was doing "Slim in Six" 6 days a week for 6 weeks and I lost NOTHING - not one pound! I think the main contributor to my lack of weight loss was that I ate back all the calories I burned. Working out hard makes you more hungry, and when your trying to lose weight, you have to eat less - period. The less you work out the less likely you are to eat extra calories. I get that now. Weight-loss is very much diet focused. Maintenance, on the other hand, can be achieved by consistent exercise.

J72FIT

@ pcastegner - I get what your saying. A couple years ago I was doing "Slim in Six" 6 days a week for 6 weeks and I lost NOTHING - not one pound! I think the main contributor to my lack of weight loss was that I ate back all the calories I burned. Working out hard makes you more hungry, and when your trying to lose weight, you have to eat less - period. The less you work out the less likely you are to eat extra calories. I get that now. Weight-loss is very much diet focused. Maintenance, on the other hand, can be achieved by consistent exercise.

Working out at a high intensity 6 days a week is a bit much unless you are athlete and in that instance body comp is not there primary driver, performance is.

pcastagner

@ pcastegner - I get what your saying. A couple years ago I was doing "Slim in Six" 6 days a week for 6 weeks and I lost NOTHING - not one pound! I think the main contributor to my lack of weight loss was that I ate back all the calories I burned. Working out hard makes you more hungry, and when your trying to lose weight, you have to eat less - period. The less you work out the less likely you are to eat extra calories. I get that now. Weight-loss is very much diet focused. Maintenance, on the other hand, can be achieved by consistent exercise.

Working out at a high intensity 6 days a week is a bit much unless you are athlete and in that instance body comp is not there primary driver, performance is.

And yet lots of people here touted their 6 a week as proof I'm wrong.

alisonlynn1976

Working out makes me motivated to fuel my body properly to facilitate the workout. If not for exercise, I would (and did) eat more out of boredom. No way would I have lost this much weight without exercise. The amount I have to eat to lose weight with no exercise is so low that I can't stick to it long-term. What I'm doing now is what works for me.

Hey, great!

Just keep in mind, as you lean out you may need to up your game if you want to keep going, as I have found. Since the rules haven't changed, it strongly implies if you can find a way to distract yourself that isn't exercise, you will be EVEN BETTER at this NOW, regardless of leanness.

if you are already PERFECT, and have NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, I can see why you would reject what I have to say out of hand.

Why are you personally attacking me for stating what works for me? But yeah, you're right, I'm already perfect.

pcastagner

@ pcastegner - I get what your saying. A couple years ago I was doing "Slim in Six" 6 days a week for 6 weeks and I lost NOTHING - not one pound! I think the main contributor to my lack of weight loss was that I ate back all the calories I burned. Working out hard makes you more hungry, and when your trying to lose weight, you have to eat less - period. The less you work out the less likely you are to eat extra calories. I get that now. Weight-loss is very much diet focused. Maintenance, on the other hand, can be achieved by consistent exercise.

Yup!

If you wanted to, you could basically say it seems that your tdee relative to your capacity to expend energy creates a context which modulates how you behave in response to a negative energy balance,

3dogsrunning

@ pcastegner - I get what your saying. A couple years ago I was doing "Slim in Six" 6 days a week for 6 weeks and I lost NOTHING - not one pound! I think the main contributor to my lack of weight loss was that I ate back all the calories I burned. Working out hard makes you more hungry, and when your trying to lose weight, you have to eat less - period. The less you work out the less likely you are to eat extra calories. I get that now. Weight-loss is very much diet focused. Maintenance, on the other hand, can be achieved by consistent exercise.

Working out at a high intensity 6 days a week is a bit much unless you are athlete and in that instance body comp is not there primary driver, performance is.

And yet lots of people here touted their 6 a week as proof I'm wrong.

I didn't use it as "proof" you were wrong. I offered my experience because it outright contradicts what you claim to contradict and to point out that there may be other factors involved.
In my case, body comp was a priority. Performance was a benefit.


And no, I didn't say no one was a "hater" although I hate that word.

pcastagner

@ pcastegner - I get what your saying. A couple years ago I was doing "Slim in Six" 6 days a week for 6 weeks and I lost NOTHING - not one pound! I think the main contributor to my lack of weight loss was that I ate back all the calories I burned. Working out hard makes you more hungry, and when your trying to lose weight, you have to eat less - period. The less you work out the less likely you are to eat extra calories. I get that now. Weight-loss is very much diet focused. Maintenance, on the other hand, can be achieved by consistent exercise.

Working out at a high intensity 6 days a week is a bit much unless you are athlete and in that instance body comp is not there primary driver, performance is.

And yet lots of people here touted their 6 a week as proof I'm wrong.

I didn't use it as "proof" you were wrong. I offered my experience because it outright contradicts what you claim to contradict and to point out that there may be other factors involved.
In my case, body comp was a priority. Performance was a benefit.


And no, I didn't say no one was a "hater" although I hate that word.

In that case it doesn't apply to you. Problem solved. I meant one of the other dozens of people who responded very harshly.